Drugs; We Are Losing This One

Originally posted by Sonata
I wonder how bad soceity would get if some forms of drugs were legalized?

we needn't wonder.
just go to amsterdam and see what it's like.

really laid back, fun, and SEXY! is the general opinion.

Billybob,

I get your point, yet to be honest:

In Amsterdam, coffeeshop means a place where cannabis is openly sold and smoked. Thought soft drugs have not been legalized in the Netherlands, it is tolerated when used discretely. Hard drugs are strictly prohibited. The coffeeshops can legally store up to 500 g of marijuana and can sell up to 5 grams to adults over 18.
www.amsterdam.info...

I think it is a given that Marijuana should be decriminalized, it is WAY past time for that. But then, "pot" is not really a problem, not as I have seen it in my work. So what about some of the harder drugs?

Semper

Originally posted by grimreaper797
I do find it sad because I have also seen/read about cops who have died in drug busts. If it makes you feel better (wont at all), over half the time the drug dealers (which sadly around here are often under 20), are not shooting because they want to kill the cops. The reason is they are deathly afraid of going to jail for the rest of their life.

i heard this from a twenty two yr. old 'dealer' in nashville, back in 1996.
the day before, three men had shot his friend, at the 'hooters' across the street from my hotel. they came in saturday moring, and got like TWENTY BUCKS, or something, because, the hooter's policy is NIGHT DEPOSIT of all earnings, and so the lucrative friday night take, was already in the bank.
during the robbery, two people drove into the parking lot for breakfast(the driver was an aspiring 21 yr. old country singer). seeing the roobers, made the young musician decide to make haste out of there, and as he tried to drive away, one of the robbers ran out and shot at the truck killing the driver, and wounding the passenger.
one of the IDIOT robbers was an OFF DUTY POLICEMAN.

the 22 yr. old, i befriended(five-leafed bridges of love), told me he would rather kill a cop than go to jail, because, once you go to an american jail once, you are a criminal forever, (and highly susceptible to hemmroids).
you can go to jail for a gram of weed.

on ebong -twenty bucks
on epipe -ten bucks
on ebag -twenty bucks
life -priceless

Originally posted by semperfortis
Billybob,

I get your point, yet to be honest:

In Amsterdam, coffeeshop means a place where cannabis is openly sold and smoked. Thought soft drugs have not been legalized in the Netherlands, it is tolerated when used discretely. Hard drugs are strictly prohibited. The coffeeshops can legally store up to 500 g of marijuana and can sell up to 5 grams to adults over 18.
www.amsterdam.info...

I think it is a given that Marijuana should be decriminalized, it is WAY past time for that. But then, "pot" is not really a problem, not as I have seen it in my work. So what about some of the harder drugs?

Semper

well, i say, it is better to let a druggy kill himself and ruin his life, than to have men of good conscience(good cops), killed trying to prevent him from doing it.

i say, it is better to have the government regulate and tax the lucrative recreational drug market, than to leave it completely free to criminals and hucksters.

The harder drugs

that really is the crux of the problem. I agree that we have adequately defended Pot's position(though it is fantastic to hear a cop say it, thanks semp you have made my day ).

First off, there needs to be a housecleaning throughout our govt. and law enforcement "officials" who have been complicit in any of this activity. I suspect the CIA and DEA would be quite empty and in need to new staffing after that is finished-but merely speculation there.
Stringent oversight that is public knowledge is madatory.. All politicians and law enforcement should be subject to weekly or monthly lie detector tests( type of test to be used based on accuracy and randomized formats to keep them from mastering a way around the test) did I say ALL.... ok let me say it one more time...ALL from the janitor that cleans the station house.. to the president who sits in the White house.
Second- Users will face NO PRISON or criminal charges.. a fine and possible sentenced counciling(to be determined upon the circumstances of each and every persons individual case)
Manufacturers of these harder drugs .. same deal as now.... do the crime .. do the time.. hard core... sell to kids or give to kids... lock up time.

But if Pot is made legal you take countless millions out of the hands of gangs hands and put it where it belongs... on the US taxpayer coffers. It also removes Pot as a gateway since youll no longer have to go to the guy that sell coke and PCP and such as well as herb.

The hard drugs though must be stopped from the source.. and it saddens me to say it but the head of that beast is our own protectors(or many rogue elements therein) But if you can get the govt. to do that. and be completely honest. then I will get a pink octopus to fly a jet blindfolded while he eats a PB&J sandwich with splintered chopsticks.

>

No one on here knows me, right???

I have not arrested for Marijuana since 1989 or so....

I have personally seen and been affected by alcohol and the damage it does to a family. If only the rest of my family had smoked pot, my childhood would have been idealistic.


You wont tell on me will you?

It would be a start. The only problem is there is obviously some pretty highly placed individuals making some kind of profit off of this, or it would have been done by now.

Semper

I just thought I should wade into this debate, having had a fairly commited relationship with hard and soft drugs in the past.

I think most people will agree that cannabis is not a problem. It was decriminalised here in the UK a couple of years ago. Meaning you won't get arrested for posession of smaller quantities, it will just be confiscated (to be destroyed allegedly :-). This has not resulted in huge increases in the use of the words "Duuude" and "Whoooaa", so all is good on that front.

It is the truly addictive substances, Heroin and Crack that cause problems. Can't comment on MethAmphetamine as no-one seems to do that here.

The problems these drugs cause are from the users needing money for their next fix (cliched words i know). So there are two obvious ways to solve this problem:

1. Stop people buying and using these drugs.
How?
- Destroy all coc aine and opium. : Never, ever, ever gonna happen.
- Educate people that "Drugs are bad" : Tried it, it doesn't work. There will always be people that want to try new things regardless of what an authority figure has told them, so they try them to find "Sh*t man, these drugs are GREAT"

2. Decriminalise Heroin and Cocaine.
- Have gov't controlled cheap and clean supplies on prescription and premises for the consumption of these drugs.
- The addict is on a register, so police and doctors know who you are. Possibly an incentive to sort out your addiction?
- The addict doesn't need to mug you and me for the money and has the chance to lead a relatively normal existence. (this does and can happen)

Can you guess which one I favour ;-)?

Sadly, I can't see the second option happening any time soon in the UK. Which is a shame. I believe having gov't controlled supplies will make becoming addicted very hard as it won't be on the streets.

Anyway, bored now.. I'm off for a smoke.

This has not resulted in huge increases in the use of the words "Duuude" and "Whoooaa", so all is good on that front.

What about Potato Chip sales???

I think you have it 100% correct. The question is why can we never get the political figures to see the savings in money, and LIVES!!!

The entire issue is frustrating coming from someone that has spent his entire life "tilting at the windmills" of this issue.

Semper

anyone here ever have trouble meeting people??

the govt says that POT makes you anti social,,,,,,,bull!!!

you light one up and offer it to a stranger,
and you have an instant friend............is that anti social???

the only people i am antisocial with,
are the a-holes with attitudes that they are better than you..
mostly corporate people,, (born rich people)

i've met so many pot heads, all of them were so much nicer,
than any exec., politician, you name it..
they would give you their shirt off their back if you needed it
even if you didnt need it, they give it to you anyways,,

i would rather be poor and have hippy friends that care, than
be rich and associate with those idiots who want to rule everything

its a shame too,

they keep locking up pot heads, so they cannot vote to legalize it......
thats why so many USERS are in jail now....cannot vote from jail

thats why the noose was tightened,,

i've seen coke addicts shoot coke with huge air bubbles in the needle (fatal)
i've seen them cook up SOAP POWDER and shoot it
i've watched young beautiful women, turn old and ugly from crack and heroin
i've seen a group of people surround 1 person that had crack,
and they were all begging for "just 1 hit" ""come on man, you know me, i'm good for it, come on man, just 1 hit, i'll give you 2 bucks on monday,""

but, just like food and water, and soon the air we breathe,
WAS free, it did grow on trees, it was pure,

now all those free things to support life,
seem to cost the most,

and people will do amazing things ,, just to get what used to be free..

ever since health care became a for profit business,
everything that was good for you is now bad for you,,,

the good things are now either illegal or expensive

we need to BAN every big business around,
and ONLY buy from the guy down the street,

pot is free, it grows,
it would ELIMINATE so many prescription drugs,
for anorexia,shyness,insomnia, nausea,,,,,you name it,
the corporates would loose all their money
and you would be healthier, only side effects are munchies and a quick nap

remember you do NOT have to smoke it any more,,,
there are vaporizers, you can eat it, bake with it, make extracts with it

if you dont SMOKE it it would be the safest multi purpose drug ever
where are THOSE studies??? deeply hidden away!!

but it grows free, and those with power and money, cannot have that!!!!!!!
so we must suffer, so they can have MORE money.........

Here is some old news for ya, hope any one who has not read this enjoys;
THE CIA-CONTRA-CRACK COCAINE CONTROVERSY

I read ya ADVISOR...

here is another little reveal about the true cause and main dealers of Cocaine in the USA...

and yep, also lists a surprising association with three lettered agencies, and black project profit makers for the same...

it seems to have also broken out into the mainstream, with investment opportunities in the private sector... (all funded by our tax dollars at work, mind you... a win, win for any investor)

own part of a coke smuggling operation... just contribute to the campaign of "****" and get all the free passes you require to the great and lucritivel world of drug smuggling...

it makes me wretch


and to think of all the money wasted, fighting the very same drugs the same team brings in... seems like a racket to be in...

american drug lords, CIA?

[edit on 21-8-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

the only way we will ever take crime out of drugs is to legalize them all, sell them through licensed outlets like ABC stores and use the money for education and treatment. As soon as they were legalized the street dealers and gangs would be out of (at least that) business.