A Growing Healthy Economy

honestly semper, if its not helping me, my family, or anybody I know, then what good do the statistics mean to me at all? I dont give a damn what the statistics say, my friend still lives in an empty appartment with hardly anything in the fridge and these statistics dont do jack for them. The same goes for everyone else I know. It aint helping them any, so what good are statistics? They are just numbers until we get to see people around us actually prospering, which is something I have yet to see, and I think others will agree.

And yet Grim.

I see people prosper. I know people that have come "UP" and bought new homes and are living a better life now than ever before. In fact almost everyone I know.

I have hesitated in presenting any "personal" references, because what I have presented is so much larger than any one individual or group.

So this becomes a "tit for tat" because I see prosperity where you do not. This leads us no where.

As I stated, we all have "stories" yet they are insignificant when compared to the overall economy.

Semper

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. Then the rich pump 100 billions into war. They say the economy is strong. Strong of bullets, of bombs and of dead people.

How do YOU like working until the month of MAY for the government. And we thought slavery was over... Fun times right?

but see, in the end, it doesnt matter about what the stats say. If a majority of people are saying they aren't seeing any change, and things aren't getting better, then it means nothing.

honestly if you have seen people who were previously unemployeed or employed on a low level job who now has a fulltime job thats moved them up in the classes, congradulations to them. Unfortunately, I dont know any of them and like most, thats how we judge how things are going. Numbers mean little to people until they see results. Around here we aren't seeing results, so we honstely dont give a damn what the statistics say, because it doesnt mean jack to us. When we start to see job oppertunities around here, and I dont mean low wage jobs, then my attitude will change. Until then, I stay pissed off and unimpressed about these meaningless numbers.

I admit that I can not win here.

Facts and Statistics, Numbers and Equations, will never prevail over emotions, cognitive content or bias.

That is just a fact as well.

Semper

yep I mean the statistics that murder numbers in 5 major cities were combine you can surpass the death toll of 9/11 yearly is just numbers, but Im sure when you talk to the people that maybe lost a brother or a son, they probably are also clouded with emotional bias as well. I mean lets face the real facts, over 36 million people are under the poverty line last time we checked. The fact is those new BS jobs dont mean jack to about 35.5 million people out there who are still screwed.

even if you created 500,000 new jobs, all which were raise a 4 person family above the poverty line, you would still have 34 million people under that poverty line in the same damn position they were in. Not because they dont have jobs, but because they dont have jobs that can support them on. thats the fact in the end. Its not about having a job, its about having a job you can survive on and maybe get somewhere with. Having a job doesnt mean jack, if you were to miss a paycheck and your life would collapse.

Of course my emotions and bias get in the way of those stupid meaningless statistics, those are my people out there Im watching going through this. A statistic doesnt feed my friends little brother. A statistic doesnt give my friend a mom and dad to take care of him because they are working all the time. If you cant get that I dont know what to tell you. Until I SEE some changes, I cant change how I see it.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by semperfortis
You don't believe the Government reports.
You don't believe the economic factors.
You don't believe the statistical information.

I don't either cause it can easily be shown for the vapid lies it's based on.

Thank the Lord, the country is not being run by your "gut" instinct or whatever it is your basing your "facts" on.

A country run on 'gut' instinct will likely fare far better as what the people want may actually start to matter.

The Economy Remains Strong, And The Outlook Is Favorable

If your already rich that is almost always the case.

* Employment Increased In 48 States Over The Past 12 Months Ending In July.

Does this take into account those who are now in the legal/jail system? Probably not as if one considers JUST that factor European countries have had higher employment rates for the last three decades.

* Over The First Half Of This Year, Our Economy Grew At A Strong 4.2 Percent Annual Rate – Faster Than Any Other Major Industrialized Country.

The 'growth' in the US economy is basically a huge subsidy/corporate handout from the the FED. The only people who benefit are the rich and the super rich.

* Productivity Has Grown A Strong 2.4 Percent Over The Past Four Quarters, Well Ahead Of Average Productivity Growth In The Last Three Decades. Strong productivity growth helps lead to GDP growth, higher real wages, and stronger corporate profits.

Meaning less people produce more and more for less and less.

* Per Capita Disposable Income Has Risen 9.2 Percent In Real Terms Since The Beginning Of 2001.

Buying power has been stagnating or declined since 1970 and now both parents have to work to even come close to achieving the same living standard as one family member could bring in home in 1960.

* Total Wage And Salary Income Increased In Real Terms At An Annual Rate Of 3.3 Percent In The Second Quarter. This follows an 11 percent surge in the previous three months.

Increased in 'real terms' might sound good on the books but it's not connected to buying power which is what counts.

* Manufacturing Production Has Risen 5.6 Percent Over The Past 12 Months. Manufacturing productivity has grown 3.8 percent over the past four quarters. www.whitehouse.gov...

Tell that to the millions of Americans who used to have good manufacturing jobs.

Mr Eberstadt points out that while nutrition, adequate shelter and health care were big problems for the poor when America’s poverty measure was devised, the picture is different today. Obesity is now the chief nutritional woe facing America’s poor.

A obese person can, and frequently is, still be malnourished.

And those under the poverty line now have nearly as much house space and amenities as the average family in 1980.

Does this include the 2.2 million Americans now in Jail? Does it include the few more millions in the justice system? Having a few 'amenities' does not and never will pay the medical or energy bills.

This does not mean that the poor are leading lives of plenty but it does indicate that their lot is getting steadily better, an improvement not reflected in official figures.www.economist.com...

The lot of the poor all over the world is getting WORSE and it's no different in the USA. Considered real wages and contraction of social spending the poor in America are far worse off than in 1960.

And Brian Westbury (WSJ) said:
During a quarter century of analyzing and forecasting the economy, I have never seen anything like this. No matter what happens, no matter what data are released, no matter which way markets move, a pall of pessimism hangs over the economy.

The people who actually LIVE in the 'economy' knows the truth and no amount of official propaganda can change the reality they have to deal with every day.

It is amazing. Everything is negative. When bond yields rise, it is considered bad for the housing market and the consumer. But if bond yields fall and the yield curve narrows toward inversion, that is bad too, because an inverted yield curve could signal a recession.

Recessions can only be caused when the flow of money is restricted by banks/government and it never happens by accidents as i am sure the present author well understands.

The latest employment numbers are hugely important as I mentioned this morning on CNBC's "Squawk Box." November's numbers from the Labor Department are a sure sign of strength here at home.

If the slave labour of the prison community counts i guess that is 'true'.

Our optimistic economy is producing jobs, the stock market is rising and gasoline prices continue their downward trend. This is all very good news.

The economy is producing 'jobs' if that is what you call working at Starbucks before rushing off to work your second part time -no benefits- job at walmart.

As to your latter observations, there are many studies (the most noteable authored in 2004 by the Chief Economist at Bear Stearns and frequent LK guest) that clearly suggests just the opposite of what you contend--that higher paying white-collar professional and service jobs requiring higher levels of education (in accounting, finance, marketing, science, law, commerce, education, medicine) are replacing lower paying jobs requiring little education at the mill, factory, plant, mine and farm.

Creating one white colour job while sending hundreds of manufacturing jobs overseas is hardly success unless the aim is to get everyone working minimum wage jobs in the service 'economy'.

This process is moving along at a glacial pace, but it is unstoppable. Just look at the 30 year ever declining trend in union membership for some solid clues.

Unions are no longer a force because they have been under attack by the state and industry for decades on end. The 'solid clue' one gets here is that you can not destroy the manufacturing economy without destroying unions first.

And yes, some service jobs in retail and food is of the substandard ilk that you describe, but growth in the much higher paying end is offsetting.
lkmp.blogspot.com...

Americans ( the massive majority) are working the longest hours in the industrialized west only to maintain the standard of living that Western Europeans/Scandinavians will not even consider going back to. The jobs being created in the service economy does provide employment but it's the type of employment where you are perpetually working without every standing a reasonable chance of doing better.

Though a waste of time, you wont believe this either. Maybe there may be some on here with open minds.

Semper

It's a question of 'disbelief' as most Americans prove by no longer trusting the government when it comes to economic matters.

Stellar