the group in india as the thuggee cult right? i think that the hashish was used only for convincing them they were in paradise. i read that hasan killed one of his sons for drinking wine. i dont think they smoked. i think they probably wouldnt be aloud to do that.

the group in india as the thuggee cult right? i think that the hashish was used only for convincing them they were in paradise. i read that hasan killed one of his sons for drinking wine. i dont think they smoked. i think they probably wouldnt be aloud to do that.

the group in india as the thuggee cult right?

As I recall this group are followers of Kali, and not Islamic.

remember indiana jones and the temple of doom. they enemy were the thuggee.

remember indiana jones and the temple of doom. they enemy were the thuggee.

Nope never saw it. But then again referencing a hollyweird movie for historical accuracy is like consulting the rcc for accurate information on alternate refigious beliefs, or nazi records on the resistance.

Many movie makers get their ideas from real history. they just change it a little.

refigious beliefs,

That should be "religious " beliefs.

they just change it a little.

or completely as needs be.

Well, I cant say who I am or what we do, or where we are, I can give you an idea of why there arent documentation about us.

Most of our Pre-Khan history was lost when we fought Genghas Khan. After that, we went undergroud. were not focused on politics, nor are we Holier-than-thou people. We are simply a group that ensures the survival of humanity. Not as a whole, but conspirators like you people, people willing to look under the masks of things for true meanings. The people who are pleased with what they hear in the media we refer to as assets. And FYI: we do kill, not as often as we used to, but we do. "Why check a white chess piece when all you have to do is paint it black."

Hassan i Sabbah was an Imam of the Ismaili sect of the Shias. He was a highly educated man - a mathematician, a scientist, an alchemist. Fascinating dude.

The Thuggees have nothing to do with Sabbah. They come from all religions, really, but quite a number do worship the Goddess Kali.

Originally posted by devzilla
Well, I cant say who I am or what we do, or where we are, I can give you an idea of why there arent documentation about us.

Most of our Pre-Khan history was lost when we fought Genghas Khan. After that, we went undergroud. were not focused on politics, nor are we Holier-than-thou people. We are simply a group that ensures the survival of humanity. Not as a whole, but conspirators like you people, people willing to look under the masks of things for true meanings. The people who are pleased with what they hear in the media we refer to as assets. And FYI: we do kill, not as often as we used to, but we do. "Why check a white chess piece when all you have to do is paint it black."

This totally freaked me out. I am researching a line and this thread came up. And the last post was from 07, then BAM a post today as I find it!

I believe in signs and I saw the comment about the video game, but this coincidence still puzzles me! Hopefully I'm on the right path.

I do believe that the thuggees stemmed from the Assassins in some way.


A good amount of information on the assassins come from the legends. If I remember correctly Marco Polo was the one who documented most of the legends we know of today. He has said to have visited Alamut in Iran and from there he has heard from the locals the stories and the legends and has written them down.

Today, not much truely is known about them. We know during the Second Crusade of the Assassin's involvement. Such as their brush with Salahadin for example.

One misconception perhaps, and where the true name of the Assassin's comes from the word in Arabic
"Al assas" - which means "the foundation". There is actually much conflict where the name comes from...

Sorry I do not have any sources, but I will provide them if you like.

The different spellings basically mean the same thing, "son". Ibn and bin - "son". In most Arabic texts, Hassan al-Sabbah is used. Basically, take your pick.

Assassin, the word - it wasn't used, really, until the 14th century. Medieval Arabic historians tended to refer to them most often as "Batinia", which basically translates as those who believe in the Batin. The batin is the esoteric meaning of a text. The Ismailis believe in both an exoteric and esoteric meaning in their holy texts, and they focus on the esoteric. Therefore, they became known as Ahl al-batin, those who believe in the esoteric interpretations.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
The different spellings basically mean the same thing, "son". Ibn and bin - "son". In most Arabic texts, Hassan al-Sabbah is used. Basically, take your pick.

Assassin, the word - it wasn't used, really, until the 14th century. Medieval Arabic historians tended to refer to them most often as "Batinia", which basically translates as those who believe in the Batin. The batin is the esoteric meaning of a text. The Ismailis believe in both an exoteric and esoteric meaning in their holy texts, and they focus on the esoteric. Therefore, they became known as Ahl al-batin, those who believe in the esoteric interpretations.

This is great, thanks for passing that information along! I dreamt of Hassan and the "hashassins" last night, but unfortunately cannot remember anything... just the faint ether/feeling indicating that is what happened.
What a life that man must have lead!

Do you think Hassan deserves the credit or Joachim? ...or Perhaps equally they tapped into the same conciousness or were part of the same "fabric" (group)?

From a friend thats "In the buisness"!

Venetian merchant and adventurer Marco Polo visited
the site of the Hashashin stronghold in Iran shortly after
its destruction by the Mongol Horde. According to Marco
Polo, Hashashin recruits were subjected to an elaborate
initiation process in which the rookies were plied with so
much hashish (perhaps laced with other soporifics) that
they lost consciousness. The recruits would awaken to
find themselves in secret pleasure gardens where they
would be surrounded by uninhibited and scantily-clad
women who would cater to their every whim, and (of
course) more hashish. Upon awakening the second time
in a more earthly setting, the recruits were told that they
had visited Paradise, and that they would return to it if
they were killed in action, or if they performed a particularly
daring operation.- Jake Lester

Although most stories about the group cannot be confirmed,
it is believed that some of the Hashashin’s most
notable victims included Nizam al-Mulk (1092), the
Fatimad vizier al-Afdal (1122), Conrad of Montferrat
(1192), the Patriach of Jerusalem (1214), Genghis Khan’s
second son Jagatai (1242), and Raymond II of Tripoli. It
is believed that Saladin, incensed by several nearly successful
attempts on his life, besieged their chief Syrian
stronghold of Masyaf in 1176 but quickly lifted the siege
after parley, and thereafter attempted to maintain good
relations with the sect. The sect’s own remaining
accounts contain an account that the Old Man himself
sneaked into Saladin’s tent in the heart of his camp and
left a poisoned cake and a note saying “you are in our
power,” on Saladin’s chest as he slept.- Jake Lester, check out the years, Compared to when they were "Destroyed" By the Khans

Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
I came across an article a short while ago about the "Order of Assassins" (a fascinating subject and one that I've read an awful lot about) and found a titbit that I hadn't heard before:

The secret order that Hasan bin Sabbah created had a significant impact on all subsequent cults and secret societies. During the Crusades, the Hashishins fought both for and against the Crusaders, whichever suited their agenda. As a result, the Crusaders brought back to Europe the Assassins' system, which would be passed down and mimicked by numerous secret societies in the West. The Templars, the Society of Jesus, Priory de Sion, the Freemasons, the Rosicrucians, etc. all owe their organizational efficiency to Hasan. In fact, the Illuminati had their origins in the mystical aspect of the Hashishin order, although most equate the Illuminati with the Bavarian Illuminati, which was a revised version of the Hashishin system¡¦ (Tim O'Neill analyzes, in-depth, the influence of the Assassins in Adam Parfrey's Apocalypse Culture)

I have always been fascinated by the history of the Hashishin ... especially their connection with the Templars ... and particularly their seige of Nimrod's Fortress on the road to Damaskas ... well worth googling for anyone with an interest.

Thanks so much for reminding me about these guys ... they are so much more than characters in a Dan Brown novel

Woody

edit on 7-4-2011 by woodwytch because: (no reason given)

I note with interest the various comments made with regard to the Hashishin and the alliance of the Order with that of the Templars. These are difficult and complicated subjects as we all know since much is hidden and whatever correspondence existed between the two would be carefully hidden by the Church, the Order and any of the family members on either side who participated in the dialogue. There is enough evidence to suggest that there was both an alliance and an agreement on both their parts to challenge their common enemy - the Orthodox Islamic movement based in Baghdad. The time was ripe for the aspirants to the crown of Islam, if one can call it that, to seek the vacuum created by the decline of the Ummayed dynasty in Cordoba. We also need to get it clear in our minds just who the Hashishin were. They are classified as a schismatic group drawn off the Ishmaeli movement which in turn had formed its own Order away from the Shiites which was the secondary branch of Islam. None of them belong to each other. Each is a cult in its own right. The Agha Khan derives his leadership from the Ishmaelis - not the Hashishin and the Order of Ishmaelis is a learned one not involved in physical struggles or assasinations. It derives its inspiration from what they consider the Seventh Imam who we are told was the husband of the Prophet Mohamed´s daughter Fatima. It leaves one with the impression that the seventh Imam could also be Jesus and that is why the Templars and the Jesuits were so involved with them throughout their history. It is this ambiguity that makes the Ishmaelis different to both the Christian and Islamic movements. However, it is a well known fact that the Order of Ishamelis enjoys Royal protection throughout the Western countries and enjoy fine buildings in most capitals of the world. The cult of knowledge is associated with the symbol of the rose and hidden knowledge in the past is often current knowledge in the future so there is little mystery about the nature of some of this knowledge which is passed down to us through our learning institutions. However, it is important to understand that the very nature and power of knowledge is what identified movements like those of the Ishamelis, Mithraic cults, Jesuits, Hashishim etc. Knowledge as a religious aspiration "setting one free" is very close to the original teachings of Jesus and which unfortunately his followers often did not fully appreciate.