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Freud or Jung on Dreams?

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posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 04:33 AM
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I've been reading a bit about dreams lately, so I started first with the father of modern psychoanalysis Freud:

en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think I want to plug through the whole Interpretation of Dreams as it's near a 1,000 pages. The idea that dreams our wish fulfillments seems easy enough, but somehow unsatisfactory to me. I think Freud suffers from the same reductionistic perspective that many social scientists of that era fell under in their attempt to emulate the success of the physical sciences. I'm not sure all dream experiences can be considered wish fulfillments.


I've also been reading some Jung:

en.wikipedia.org...

He seems a little more holistic to me. And I have to admit I'm attracted to his idea of the collective unconscious and the archetypes, although the philosopher in me wants to demand pretty strong arguments and evidence for those conjectures.

Anyway, any preferences from Freud or Jung? Or maybe someone completely different that you can recommend on dreaming? I'm very interested in dreams from all perspectives, psychological, physiological, spiritual, religious, philosophical; you name it.

[edit on 8/18/2006 by Toromos]




posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Toromos
Anyway, any preferences from Freud or Jung? Or maybe someone completely different that you can recommend on dreaming? I'm very interested in dreams from all perspectives, psychological, physiological, spiritual, religious, philosophical; you name it.





The key to the positive penetration of the Astral Plane is related to the positively transmuted sexual energy, or transmutation without fornication.





The Transmutation of Sexual Energy (2)


What there may still be left for me to say, here in this talk, is how one can turn the sperm into energy. It will be my pleasure to explain to you a singular, very special craft that medieval alchemists used to teach to their disciples.

The artful device I am going to teach you was also taught by different scientists, such as Brown-Séquard in the United States.

Dr. Krumm-Heller, colonel-physician in our glorious Mexican Army, taught it too, and so did Carl Jung. It is also taught by the Asiatic schools of Eastern Tantrism.









It is not something I have made up, by myself and for myself: I have learned it from all those sages and I, in turn, pass it on to you, but not as something to be blindly believed, or as an unshakable dogma. Accept it if you want, or do not accept it if you do not want to. Many schools have accepted it and many have rejected it. All people are free to think as they wish and I am only giving you my humble opinion.

Dr. Krumm-Heller used to give the formula in Latin. He would say, “Inmisium membrum virilin vaginae femina, sine ejaculatium seminus.” In synthesis, we would define that craft as follows: “lingum-Yoni connection without ever spilling the ens seminus.” What should one understand by “Lingam?” The male sexual organ, the Greek “phallus.” What do we understand by “yoni?” The sexual organ of women. So, therefore, the key lies in the union of the lingam-yoni, but without ejaculating the Entity of the Semen...






Carl Jung on Alchemy and Tantra:




Carl Jung



Jung, at least later in his life, knew of and practiced sexual magic. However, I do not know if he practiced authentic White Tantra...




In philosophic alchemy, there exists the idea of the Soror Mystica who works with the alchemist while he mixes his substances in his retorts. . . . At the end, there occurs a mystic wedding. . . . In the processes of individuation worked out in the Jungian laboratory between the patient and the analyst, the same fusion takes place. . . . It is a forbidden love which can only be fulfilled outside of matrimony. . . . While it is true that this love does not exclude physical love, the physical becomes transformed into ritual.

Consider the Tantric practices of India, in which the Siddha magicians attempted to achieve psychic union. The ritual of the Tantras is complicated and mysterious. The . . . woman would usually be one of the sacred prostitutes. . . . Just as in alchemy lead is converted into gold . . . the act of coitus was really intended to ignite the mystic fire at the base of the vertebral column. . . . The woman is a priestess of magic love, whose function is to . . . awaken the . . . chakras of the Tantric hero. . . . The man does not ejaculate the semen, but impregnates himself; and thus the process of creation is reversed and time is stopped. . . . The product of this forbidden love is the Androgyne, the Total Man, all of whose . . . centers of consciousness are now awakened. . . .

Jung, the magician, had almost alone made it possible for us today to take part in those Mysteries which seem capable of taking us back to that legendary land of the Man-God.







I also recommend the following books(The Bon and Buddhist Adepts certainly know about Dream Yoga):








This revised and enlarged edition includes additional material from a profound and personal Dzogchen book which Chögyal Namkhai Norbu has been writing for many years. This material expands and deepens the first edition's emphasis on specific exercises to develop awareness within the dream and sleep states.

Rinpoche gives instructions for developing clarity within the sleep and dream states. He goes beyond the practices of lucid dreaming that have been popularized in the West, by presenting methods for guiding dream states that are part of a broader system for enhancing self-awareness called Dzogchen. In this tradition, the development of lucidity in the dream state is understood in the context of generating greater awareness for the ultimate purpose of attaining liberation.

Also included in this book is a text written by Mipham, the nineteenth-century master of Dzogchen, which offers additional insights into this extraordinary form of meditation and awareness.














"If we cannot carry our practice into sleep," Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche writes, "if we lose ourselves every night, what chance do we have to be aware when death comes? Look to your experience in dreams to know how you will fare in death. Look to your experience of sleep to discover whether or not you are truly awake."







A great Gnostic book on Astral Travel:




Dream Yoga: Writings on Dreams and Astral Travel



"The aspirant tries to be conscious of his own dream; hence, he becomes a spectator and actor of a dream with the advantage of being able to abandon the scene at will in order to move freely in the Astral World. Then the aspirant, free of the limitations of the flesh, outside the physical body, will have discarded his old familiar environment and penetrated a universe ruled by different laws.

The discipline of the dream state of Tantric Buddhists methodically leads us to the awakening of our Consciousness.

Gnostics can awaken to the real state of Illumination only through the understanding and elimination of dreams.
�
Sacred scriptures from Hindustan solemnly assert that the whole world is Brahma's dream. Having this Hindu postulate as a base, let us emphasize that "when Brahma awakens, his dream ends."

As long as the aspirant does not achieve the radical dissolution, not only of dreams, but of their psychological generators as well, absolute awakening is impossible.

The definite awakening of the Consciousness is possible only by means of a radical transformation. "






Some of the best info would be the Dream Yoga online course I already linked to at the top of this post.





[edit on 22-8-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 07:40 AM
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i would go with Jung
all the way



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 08:48 AM
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I must say, when it comes to the mind, Freud was definitely the father, but i feel that when he got into the subconscious and the unconscious, his personal views hindered the truth of the matter. Freud thought that everyone had repressed sexual desires for their parent of the opposite sex at infancy throughout childhood: the Oedipus and Electra complexes. I found this to be not only innacurate, but just plain wierd.

The same goes for Freud's views of the unconscious mind. I feel that dreams are just the mind's way of untangling the knots that occur in the awake state. This can aparate not only into your desires, but also into totally random and sometimes horrifying tales spun by your mind in the deepest throes of REM sleep.

Also, it is my hypothesis that the drug dimethyltryptamine, or '___', a powerful hallucinogen, is released from the brain in this stage of sleep, resulting in vivid, lucid dreams that, more often than not, are forgotten within the first few seconds of waking.

I am not very familiar with the work of Carl Jung, so i cannot say if i really agree with his theories or not.



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