nephra..excelent subject...but be carefull.it is one that, i think, gets to some of the core problems in the world. you know 'god might toss a thunderbolt or something your way
religion has caused more termoil and deaths than drugs will ever do.... i have met both cultures ('drugies' and 'good religiuos people') and both are wacked out!
religion is and will be manipulated by those in power. for evidence you don't have to look any further than what is around you. the fractioning of the same religion...the freaky extremist muslims...the 'christian right'...is there a christian left?
most people go to church out of ignorence. they have know idea what they believe and they don't want to think and look for themselves...."please tell me what to think, i don't want to explore my own views." most people would be scared sh*tless to quiet thier minds and explore.
as you can tell i sort of have a low opinion of the 'public' in general. (read some of my other posts)
the lemmings are easily manipulated or just don't care about anything unless it affects them directly...and by directly, i mean $$ wise...just follow the $$

Originally posted by clearmind
nephra..excelent subject...but be carefull.it is one that, i think, gets to some of the core problems in the world. you know 'god might toss a thunderbolt or something your way
religion has caused more termoil and deaths than drugs will ever do.... i have met both cultures ('drugies' and 'good religiuos people') and both are wacked out!
religion is and will be manipulated by those in power. for evidence you don't have to look any further than what is around you. the fractioning of the same religion...the freaky extremist muslims...the 'christian right'...is there a christian left?
most people go to church out of ignorence. they have know idea what they believe and they don't want to think and look for themselves...."please tell me what to think, i don't want to explore my own views." most people would be scared sh*tless to quiet thier minds and explore.
as you can tell i sort of have a low opinion of the 'public' in general. (read some of my other posts)
the lemmings are easily manipulated or just don't care about anything unless it affects them directly...and by directly, i mean $$ wise...just follow the $$

Heh, I know what you mean. I think a good deal of people go to church and do not question religion out of fear. Fear that was instilled in them from the earliest memories. Church and religion gives them a security blanket that they can wrap themselves up in and put away uncertanties of life and death.

As Einstein once said.... "I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation."

He was indeed a wise man.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I

1. Religion as a veil to prevent us from knowing who or what we really are.
   
2. Religion as means of controling the human race for an unknown purpose
   
3. Religion as a tool for creating wars
   
4. Religion as a tool for setting up and retaining govenments.
   

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by NephraTari]

1. Its quite possible, although there are many athiests who aren't bursting out saying they're something else. I know most people wouldn't, but there are enough of them someone would.
2. The entire human race? No. Part of it? Oh yes. It is 'unknown' still, but I imagine there are some alterioir motives behind religious leaders.
3. This is a no-brainer. Look at the Middle East. Need I say more?
4. Less now than before, but this practice is still in place. 1600 and 1700s very good examples of such things.

but my soul is inclined to belive that their is a father of all that is and there is also a being of malevolent force...
i can see the two existing today so im sure i will see the discerning two latter in my souls existence...

Actually, there are threads concerning this very topic. And I think it's the basic core to this particular forum. What if the major religions were enough truth to get people to believe thus filling that void that is actually filled by letting go? What if they were steering us just wrong enough where we don't progress towards our spiritual goals? What if there is no heaven or hell? What if it's all a very subtly twisted lie?

Can anyone prove it isn't? Can anyone prove it is? Then what is the point?

Reply to Dany:
1. This is a Cardinal (Lopez Trujillo) not the Pope. His view is not shared by the entire Roman Catholic Church and does not represent an offical postion of the Catholic Church. Also Cardinal Trujillo states:"Relying on condoms is like betting on your own death," and went on to state "and warned that the only foolproof way to prevent the spread of the virus was monogamy within marriage". He bases his argument on the fact that "' (WHO) argument that condoms reduce risk of infection by 90 percent proves his point" still leaves "a risk of 10 or 15 percent is like playing Russian roulette". When you read the article, you will see that the good Cardinal is basically stating the truth: the only guaranteed way to prevent the spread of STD's is by a monogamous relationship (In the Cardinal words: "the only foolproof way to prevent the spread of the virus was monogamy within marriage").

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Reply to Dany:
1. This is a Cardinal (Lopez Trujillo) not the Pope. His view is not shared by the entire Roman Catholic Church and does not represent an offical postion of the Catholic Church. Also Cardinal Trujillo states:"Relying on condoms is like betting on your own death," and went on to state "and warned that the only foolproof way to prevent the spread of the virus was monogamy within marriage". He bases his argument on the fact that "' (WHO) argument that condoms reduce risk of infection by 90 percent proves his point" still leaves "a risk of 10 or 15 percent is like playing Russian roulette". When you read the article, you will see that the good Cardinal is basically stating the truth: the only guaranteed way to prevent the spread of STD's is by a monogamous relationship (In the Cardinal words: "the only foolproof way to prevent the spread of the virus was monogamy within marriage").

-shrugs- You asked for a link, I gave you one.

RELIGION = EVIL !

def:Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction

Im not going to post a supporting link that either

If you cant Figure that out for yourself just hang it up

The Basic Concept Of Love Is The Only Valid Component
of Religion

The Rest Is Crap!

Trinity ?Who cares ...Crap
Son of God Who cares ...CRAP !
The ONE TRUE RELIGION ...CraP...............
Sabbath on friday saturday or sunday CRAP CRAP CRAP
MY goDz Better than Your God ...MO CRAP
This Guys goin to hell for his Blasphemy EVEN MORE CRAP
Thats why the most Religious people I know
are ALL full of

CRAP!!...........................

Thank you Dany, but look at the original quote from this thread:

the catholic church issued a statement recently telling people
"Dont use condoms AIDS can get through them"
? how many people in 3rd world countries do you think that will help kill

Now the article you linked gives a slightly different point of view than the one presented by the post. Seems that it was one man in the Church not the whole Catholic Church. Seems that he questions the effectiveness of the device (and this is the truth. If you engage in enough unsafe sex, you will get an STD even if you use condoms.) Also this man (a cardinal) was advocating that the only truly 100% effective way to avoid getting a STD was in monogamous relationship (within marraige of course). In short the true facts seem to be slightly different than the post.

you get the just of what he is trying to portray...
i think you are attempting to decieve others in this regard and i have witnessed this action by you before...

religion as politics and other institutions are there for a few not the many who sustain them...

So you are saying he isnt entitled to his own opinion?

/sarcasm
gosh, I wish I was open minded as you!


Please bestow upon me your infite wisdom

/sarcasm off

bigsage
you get the just of what he is trying to portray...
i think you are attempting to decieve others in this regard and i have witnessed this action by you before...

To whom are you directing your statement. Would you care to be specific as to the particular individual to which you refer?

Jagd, indeed you are right.
But there are other issues for why I think what this cardinal said was pretty silly, I would go into details but I'm just not in the mood to type a long thread, too tired, sorry, I'll try after I've slept.

Originally posted by Pherophile

Originally posted by NephraTari
I

1. Religion as a veil to prevent us from knowing who or what we really are.
   
2. Religion as means of controling the human race for an unknown purpose
   
3. Religion as a tool for creating wars
   
4. Religion as a tool for setting up and retaining govenments.
   

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by NephraTari]

1. Its quite possible, although there are many athiests who aren't bursting out saying they're something else. I know most people wouldn't, but there are enough of them someone would.
2. The entire human race? No. Part of it? Oh yes. It is 'unknown' still, but I imagine there are some alterioir motives behind religious leaders.
3. This is a no-brainer. Look at the Middle East. Need I say more?
4. Less now than before, but this practice is still in place. 1600 and 1700s very good examples of such things.

I think in regards to the final one that it was most important in the early days of government when it was forming to get people to accept it as the way things should be.
Even today with the supposed seperation of church and state, religion is a large part of our judicial system and our government.
would people be so willing to accept a group of people that have the power over them and tell them what to do if they did not have the fear that some god set down rules that are being inforced by this government?
If we had never accepted the 10 commandments, would we accept someone telling us what we can and can't do?

I am not so sure.