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Is the U.K on the verge of a civil war?

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posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 05:43 PM
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Odium:
as i have not yet learnt how to use the quotes button i will answere you reply like this:


That's a lie.


well sorry to dissapoint you but i also live in a majority Muslim community and the FACT is in that particular community it WAS TRUE!!


Why not? What harm does it do?



What harm did it do to publish a few cartoons ?
I will tell you..it upset the muslim community
Just as Burning FLAG of the Union is an insult to people of that Union.
But i admit there was a difference
We DID NOT go on a rioting spree



No offence, spymaster but you come across as one of those unfortunates who sees stories like “Bar, Bar, Black Sheep” no longer being allowed in Schools and believing it. Even though the newspapers had no evidence and retracted it, the television reported that the story was false and so on and so fourth


Well first.#
the school wich my daughter attends had Banned Blackboards , they are now called wipe boards, for fear of upsetting the majority i say majority because at that school the majority are of ethnic origin.

You are obviously have an allience to a political party (where as i dont and have said that) because of all the so-called political events you attend??????

Re the BNP sending a refugee(asylum seeker) back to his so-called death..well i dont know anything about that so i cannot answere that one other than by saying THAT THE BNP HAVE NO POWER TO SEND ANYONE ANYWHERE?
If the Asylum seekers leave has failed then so be it, that is NOT the same as the so-called proud to be British muslims(your words not mine) who hold up banners asking for the beheading of anyone who insults islam on the streets of ENGLAND!!


Can you smell the hypocrisy? Can you smell it within the air surrounding you?


YES I CERTAINLY CAN

mod edit: Added quote tags and cut down quotes to only what is needed, and removed quoting of self as it is not needed and only confuses people trying to the read the reply
Quote Reference (review link)


[edit on 17-8-2006 by UK Wizard]




posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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I don't live in the UK but il say it is no closer to civil war then America is. Now how close is America.


So far people have been rather well behaved, decades back and someone flew a plane into a building or blew up subways I know at least in America we probably would have rioted through Muslim towns, hung them in the streets, burned down Mosques.

So I am glad that people are keeping their cool and understanding it isn't their neighbors attacking them.... however until recently.

In the UK, unlike here in America the terrorist where actually UK citizens. I still think you Brits have enough sense not to start anything, watching CNN walking the streets talking to Muslims they are outraged that white Brits think they are like the terrorist, if anyone where to start a fight I really think it would be the Muslims.

The situation can still get worse before it gets better, if there are suicide bombings and they get really scared, persecutions of innocent people by vigilantes could start. Of course that is a worse case senario, damn the Republicans and Blair for creating false terror and upsetting British peoples!

[edit on 8/16/2006 by Rockpuck]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 06:46 PM
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Spymaster, again you tarnish a group with the same brush.

Not one of the Muslims, I live near attended the protest in London. However, all of them were very much upset with the handling of it. Especailly in relation to things such as Pope Town getting cut funding by the BBC due to it upsetting Christians.

As for burning a flag. Sorry, it's not an insult to the Union. People allow it to insult them, people allow it to bother them and there in reality is no need to. Let people express that anger at a symbol because it is a lot better than expressing it at a person or individual. Furthermore, many non-muslims burn flags. Never heard of what Manson does on stage? I've seen British flags burned at concerts, biker rallies and so on and so fourth.

AS for the poltiical events I attend, it's because of my education I get invited to go to them. More often then not I am a speaker there now, but I go to Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat and so on and so fourth events. Simple reason becuase I like to be informed. I would much rather know what my local MP has to say and I would much rather ask him the questions and those running. I'm not what's known as a "Blind voter".

Furthermore, I never said the BNP send anyone back. I said call for them to be sent back. Sorry, but I've seen transcripts of BNP events, where they've called for all immigrants to be sent back. They are no different than Islamic Terrorists.

Sorry mate, but the School is at fault then not the Government maybe the Local Council can also be to blame. Where my half-brother attends, "Black Sheep", "Blackboard" and so on and so fourth are called that. Furthermore, my Stepfather whose a rather high ranking employee in the education authority has told me wherever he has worked at has always been the same. Same as myself, never met an African or Caribbean decent have a problem with the term "black" for a colour.



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 02:24 AM
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"That's a lie.


Sorry mate, but I live in a Muslim Community. During the World Cup, nearly all of the houses owned by Muslims and with Muslims living in it had the flag flying. You know why? Because the vast majority of them see themselves as citizens of Britain, born in England and of Pakistani origin and Islamic faith. They are all not one."

well you can count your self as lucky mate try living round my area



The burning of our national flag and the "getting away with it" was and is a total disgrace and wont be tolerated for much longer by normal (not right wing) people.



"Why not? What harm does it do?"


its just out right wrong do you think people would stand and watch me if i burned a flag of islam or any other country for that matter????? put it this way i dont feel like going to hospital



"Really? Never seen it. Not at work, not at any political event I have been too. I’ve seen a small fringe minority of people who are nothing more than uneducated bigots who believe anything."


i know lots of people who are bored of this you speak of jokes, this is the biggest joke and im no uneducated bigot


"This whole idea that the vast majority of British people are sick of Muslims and Immigrants, is a joke. It’s a joke, which a few people desire to push for their own agenda"


i think people are really ****** off about this i am, how much can they keep raising fuel and tax on everything, when theres people in your street with a nicer house,car,clothes and they dont work and you pay 250 rent and 600 tax how can it not make peoples blood boil...

mod edit: Added quote tags Quote Reference (review link)


[edit on 17-8-2006 by UK Wizard]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Spymaster, again you tarnish a group with the same brush.

If its good for the "goose its good for the Gander",
you seem to think that anyone who is WHITE and that stands up for the country is a biggot? your words!


Not one of the Muslims, I live near attended the protest in London. However, all of them were very much upset with the handling of it. Especailly in relation to things such as Pope Town getting cut funding by the BBC due to it upsetting Christians.

I didnt say"anyone you knew"
But i am quiet sure i did mention LONDON ..and not londonistan ?
After all it is supposedly a Christian Country..or not?


As for burning a flag. Sorry, it's not an insult to the Union. Let people express that anger at a symbol because it is a lot better than expressing it at a person or individual.

I will remember that next time i walk pass a mosque, or see a copy of the koran, or an islamic flag!
And i ask you to remember your quote if you see a picture of the so-called prophet mohammed in a cartoon again?


Furthermore, many non-muslims burn flags. Never heard of what Manson does on stage? I've seen British flags burned at concerts, biker rallies and so on and so fourth.

Fortunatley i havent! Nor have i had seen or heard what a Mason does on stage?


Furthermore, I never said the BNP send anyone back. I said call for them to be sent back. Sorry, but I've seen transcripts of BNP events, where they've called for all immigrants to be sent back. They are no different than Islamic Terrorists.

I find this strange?
The BNP (a politicaly elected party in the UK) you "think" are the same as islamic terrorists?
Could you elaborate on this a bit for me please!
I cant remember the last time i saw a newsflash on a "bunch of BNP supporters" being tracked by cctv and commiting HORRIBLE ACTS of violence on innocent people on their way to work, so if you have that link please put it up for all to see....


Sorry mate, but the School is at fault then not the Government maybe the Local Council can also be to blame.

Yes i agree with you on that!

Anyway Odium, in 16 sentences and 2 posts you have NOT ONCE refered to the original question from the start, but have tried to trun this thread into a hate-filled post, which i will not allow myself to get drawn into.
thankyou

mod edit: fixed bb code error

[edit on 17-8-2006 by UK Wizard]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:19 AM
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The muslims near me all had England flags out during the World cup, all their homes displayed the flag and cars aswell.

As for the civil war, its likely to happen, many will agree on that. There is starting to be the odd racist attack where i live (which is very rare), but hardly no tension between ethnic groups cause its about 98% White here. IF there is a civil war (or unrest) its likely to be in the North and major cities.

but this time around, no one will loose their head at the end of it
(a 1600 joke)



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:40 AM
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I put a post up like this the other day and got the same reaction. But believe me....

Something is happening in the UK!!!! C18 have NOW fully reformed (major issue!) and the staunchly Protestant Lodges such as The Orange Lodge and The Apprentice Boys are calling all thier members to attend meetings regarding national security. (Please note that these lodges are mainly in Scotland and Ulster)

Now, I'm going off topic a bit, but a policeman whos a friend of mine moaned at me the other day as while doing a car pull, the asian driver started shouting that he was a racist and only pulled him because of his colour....now my friend had to stop the car check because he would have been suspended from duty regarding an investigation, if the driver made such a complaint. Imagine my friends anger that he can't do his job properly because of laws protecting other religions here. Before anyone ask's the driver was pulled for erratic driving and endangering the public but had to be let go. According to my friend more and more police officers feel like they can't do thier jobs properly because of protection to Ethnic minorities.

Like I said, somethings stirring in the UK, and with the recent attempts to attack us, this can only add fuel to the fire.

Willied



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by Pictnation
Something is happening in the UK!!!! C18 have NOW fully reformed (major issue!) and the staunchly Protestant Lodges such as The Orange Lodge and The Apprentice Boys are calling all thier members to attend meetings regarding national security. (Please note that these lodges are mainly in Scotland and Ulster)


Im not saying i don't believe you, but can i see a link for this? its very interesting regarding the groups in Northern Ireland and Combat 18.



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 05:58 AM
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Heres a few links...

www.sluggerotoole.com...

If you read the whole page it mentions the attacks on ethinic minorities in the bottom paragraph.

irsm.org...

Fundraising for the UVF by C18.

www.spunk.org...

Facists/Fottball hooligans/C18

observer.guardian.co.uk...

A report from the Observer on C18/ Loyalist links.

Theres nothing as yet showing the recent info but as soon as I get it, I'll post it up.
But please believe me, I get info on whats happening and theres defo something going on.



[edit on 17-8-2006 by Pictnation]

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Pictnation]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 06:11 AM
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Heres a link to C18/Belfast/Israel.

I've been to Belfast many times, especially the Shankhill Road area and trust me there are many flags flying, the 3 main ones The Union Jack, Red Hand of Ulster and The Israeli flag.

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 17-8-2006 by Pictnation]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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I will hopefully try to clear things up a little here:

Re: the Far right supporting UVF/UDA
Whilst some of the Extreme Far Right wing groups withing the UK DO have links with UVF/UDA the numbers are relatively small.
Picnation you are right in repsect that there are Scottish groups also that have these same links.

The main football (FIRMS) who have links are as follows:
Chelsea Headhunters/ Oldham FYC/Charlton Loyalists/ Glasgow Rangers loyalist, i am not saying by any means that these are the only ones, but they are the more prolific.

Re: the flags
The flying of an israel flag alongside The Union/St George or Red Hand was from what i can gather was done as a direct result of the Republicans showing their support for Palestine/ETA.

I think and i am probably wrong (perhaps sminkey if he picks this thread up will have better knowledge of this) this started around 1992 and the person/s who raized the israel flag were "repremanded" as it is in direct contrast to what the Loyalists > Sympathisers> supporters from UK> far right etc actually want.

Basically what im trying to say is that it was done more of an "insult" to republicans rather than support of israel.

Another thing which you say Picnation, you are right "something" is on the way, as there does seem to be a lot of "movement" going on at the moment.

I hope that i havent confused matters any more regarding the flags but i know if "sminkey" picks this up he will be able to clear that point up straight away.



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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Is the UK on the verge of a civil war?

No. IMO this is, rightly, the same answer as last time we had this discussion.

We suffer from tiny little groups in various 'corners' who'd love us to imagine they are a hugely more 'impressive' threat than they actually are whether they be young deluded Muslim men of asian ethnicity or young deluded nationalist/fascist men of British ethnicity.

The fact is that despite the occasional issue that annoys us or maybe causes the occasional shouting match the British people are not seething and on the verge of social collapse.
It's no nirvana but neither is there the slightest sign heralding the revolution/civil war.
No way.

Even the spectre of Muslim extremists has not led to a significant shift in public attitudes.
Polls might even show an increased level of fear or suspicion in society generally but it isn't just 'targetted' at young Muslim men.

Been there, done that.
Only last time it was 'the Irish' and those (a lot more) dangerous and scary 'Irish terrorists'.

.....and I don't know of any English people (saving the really tiny and unrepresentitve numbers) with a serious problem with Irish people.....in fact wasn't there one of those daft polls recently that showed the Irish as the next nationality the British would like to be if they had to choose another nationality?

Do we have active and potentially dangerous right-wing groups in the UK?

Yes of course we do, but thankfully they are very very small (even the largest of them)......and just because they exist and are actively trying to gain support does not make them any more of a threat or problem than they are
(no matter how much their self-publicising would have us believe otherwise).

If you want to know about the past and compare where they are now the go read about the British fascists and right-wing groups.
They used to be much larger and a far bigger (and far more widely and generally supported) group and 'threat' then they are now......and troublesome trouble-makers that they were they still were no actual threat then either.

Why do some so-called 'loyalists' fly the Israeli flag?

- Because some of them think they can identify with the Israeli state and people in trying to hold land against an opponent who is using 'terrorist' warfare tactics against them.

It also gets up republicans' noses.

.....there is also a seriously loopy sub-section of 'loyalism' that imagines they are part of a tribe of Israel (seriously).
Check out the 'Tara' group.
Evangelical fundy-ism gone mad, no less.

Why do some republicans fly the Palestinian flag?

- Because they think they can identify with a people dispossessed and occupied on their own land.

It also gets up loyalists' noses.

Come on guys these attitudes are hardly particularly deep or especially difficult to work out

As for the Orange Order in Scotland or Northern Ireland?

Well, OK, they do exist but so what?
They are tiny and relatively powerless.

Even their links or the links of the so-called 'loyalist' terrorist groups to the far-right aren't exactly the problem they would have people imagine
(cos they have been at this for many years.....IIRC the NF in the 1970's had links to so-called 'loyalism')

Their numbers are dwindling (even in NI, their main power base) and Orange halls all over NI are closing down through lack of support or new members (even the granting of lottery funds hasn't done much more than stave off the inevitable).
Kids, even in NI, just aren't interested - in enough numbers - about strutting around the place dressed up funny, flute and drum bands, the OTT odd version of religion and a lot of old 17th century guff about 'the Catholic threat'.......and thanks to the obvious linkages with the so-called 'loyalist' terrorist groups many parents wouldn't want their kids within a million miles of such places or organisations.


[edit on 17-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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This thred might help some people see where some might fear a civil war in the UK. Or if not that a radical change in government.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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If some people want to insist on frightening themselves about British Muslims they could at least attempt to find out what Muslims actually have to say instead of pretending that a handful of extremists are in some way representitive.

I would offer this, Channel 4's excellent film -
What Muslims want'.

It is available here on bittorrent - www.torrentportal.com...

This is a fair and reasoned attempt to discuss the attitudes modern British Muslim's hold.
It does not focus on a handful of extremists and pretend that they are 'what they are all like'.

[edit on 17-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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I dunno about multiculturalism causing a civil war, but Im about to start one if I cant find a decent pizza on this island.........



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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You should try this part of Ireland, pizza is no problem but try getting a decent kebab (if you beleive in such things).


It's enough to drive a guy to murder!


We need some good old honest-to-goodness Turkish Muslims over here that can make them right.


(mind you with the level of serious racist attacks - as have been mentioned earlier - I wouldn't blame anyone of any creed or 'colour' shunning this part-time nut-house.
)



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Hmm.sminkley. REAL pizzas????????

Down here, you can get a real live honest to ghu Turkish kebab, amongst other Turkish yummies. Cooked by real Turks. Its lovely.

And I havent heard of any racist attacks here. Just know alot of racist people tho.

I am especially amused when my husband goes on ranting about kicking "all these f@&%*$ foreigners" out of the country. I look at him, and have to remind him he is married to a foreigner......




posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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I think a civil war is completely out of the question as long as Big Brother is still running. And, at the rate they keep bringing people back into the house it may take until the new year to finally clear the premises of this latest mix of social misfits


Before that ends there's another series of The X Factor due to start so any war, civil or otherwise, will have to go on the backburner for a while.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I dunno about multiculturalism causing a civil war, but Im about to start one if I cant find a decent pizza on this island.........


Whats a decent pizza then Skadi?



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 04:04 AM
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Well, I'm not British. And this reply will be completely uneducated, immature, and probably not even pertinent, but I recommend this.

Somebody send out a few boxcars of Guy Fauks masks to the general public, and one year from now, if you agree, wear them out in public and beat the crap out of anyone who wears a Turban or chants anything negative!



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