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Is the U.K on the verge of a civil war?

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posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:36 AM
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I dont really know how to pose this question without coming in for some abuse and grief but i'll do my best, lets just clarify right now before i begin:-

i am not a racist or faccist of any description,
i have a few muslim friends,
i speak 3 languages and am well travelled and educated,

I get to speak to a lot of different people from all walks of life. Recentley;more so after the foiled bomb attempts last week, i am increasingly hearing british peoples opinions on the state of the UK and none of them are good relating to how they feel concerning the muslim community.

What is really worrying is the amount of times im hearing the BNP's name cropping up and the way in which people seem to be softening to them and in return their gaining seats whilst maintaining a 'were not so bad' attitude.

Normally well balanced and mild mannered british citizens are getting riled by what they seem to think is a failure by our goverment to let us instill national pride without being labled as a racist.

a portuguese friend of mine pointed out that only the UK goverment would police and protect extremists burning the george cross in the streets of London whilst protecting them from the general public who have no rights to stop it. If you showed up in portugal and burnt our flag the police would bang you up.

I pretty much agree they would, and i cant actualy say i think its wrong..its just not respectfull.

In point my friend thinks our countrys goverment is a joke, the extremists go there because they feel unthreatned by our laws and rules.

My question is that if you are a british person in the Uk what are your experiences with people you know and there reactions to what appears to be a growing trend towards people openley voicing there disgust at what we allow people to get away with in our country?

I sense a tension i have never seen before and i think its getting closer to a flash point, obviously theres going to be attacks directed wrongly at the muslim communitys and innocents are going to get hurt, but what will the return backlash be, it seems that the usually normal 'white' british person is getting fired up and angry and making random statements of aggression caused by frustration.

the BNP is dying for this to happen, once they gain momentum they will no doubt saddle back up with the NAZI loons and C18 for some real white power lynchings..we cant let this happen.

whats the solution to diffuse this situation?...because i have no idea.

Regards.




posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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"Is the U.K on the verge of a civil war?"

Uhm, no. Glad I could help.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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Uhm, no. Glad I could help.


what a well thought out answer, well done for contributing such a valued comment.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by optimus fett



Uhm, no. Glad I could help.


what a well thought out answer, well done for contributing such a valued comment.


im with vance



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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No it's not! The UK is multicultural these days and the BNP and right leaning politics are on the rise (just like the USA and Australia) but there's unlikely to be a civil war of any kind. This is Britain you know we would spill our tea in all the kerfuffle! And anyway... we had one already in the 1600s and it wasn't very popular.

There's a new law regarding incitement to racial and religious hatred. A riot or two perhaps but civil war? not likely.

How about you?



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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This is Britain you know we would spill our tea in all the kerfuffle!


lol,lol,lol.






How about you?


well...im not in the UK, im basing my comments on things people from the UK have said to me, seems like theres a lot of anger and tension over immigration at the moment and im hearing it directed at muslims in general, i was kind of hoping people would post their thoughts and opinions regarding my initial post, i was hoping for some feedback from UK members around the UK.

Obviously Vance and reaper dont have anything to base their opinions on? or maybe they will shock me and rise to the occasion?



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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I suppose it depends on what part of the UK you are from. Up in the north here we have huge Muslim communitys and yes i agree the tension does feel to be at breaking point.

Oh yes i can see your point and i feel the people on here who dispute this obviously dont live near a Muslim community. Believe me its like segragation.
A local town near me couldnt display a christmas tree in the town centre last year for fear of pushing christianity in the faces of Muslims. Shock horror the mayor of this said town is a Muslim.

And approx 8 miles down the road from here about 3 year ago was the scene of many riots between Muslims and Whites which were displayed all over the national press.

So yes tension is quite tight i would say



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:10 AM
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Please make sure the rebels burn down the Bank of England & the temple Bar.
P.S. burn down Lord Rothchilds estate while your at it as well.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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i wouldnt go so far to say civil war. But i think and i HOPE there will be a tipping point where we stand up as a nation and say Tony Blair your killing our country its time to go, why cant we take him out of office before the next election hes an absolute liar! and as for immigration, it is a problem im not saying everyone who comes to this country is out to screw us but my mams a nurse and she says shes disgusted about the fact that people come from other countries illegally riddled with diseases they get treated on our NHS then they live in this country on disability...and also they manage to get there family over aswell who stay and live off the system (not an isloated incident either).

now our system needs honesty off people for it to work and i think people who are angry at this blatent screwing of the system have a good right to be angry...the question is how much longer can it last, the government taxes more and more every year so how long is it till the breaking point. After that i dont know whats going to happen, thankfully im going to emmigrate when i finish my apprentiship and im not going to look back at this mess



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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Imigration has been an issue for many years in the UK, but our doors remain open.

I have zero problem with anybody coming to the UK except that most tend to head for the sanctity of our already over crowded cities.

Not that the imigrants have much choice, as to move to conservative rural UK would mean almost definite victimisation.

Q. Are we on the brink of a civil war?
A. Not even close.

We were far closer during the seventies, but since Thatcher turned the minds of the then young into self obsessed capitalists and Blair has continued her, far from fine work we don't actually have an opposition, pretty much like the US.

I personally would love to see people take to the streets and reclaim the land, but try getting the people to leave their apathetic lives.

They're not unlike the US, would rather just watch it on the news then complain to their neighbours....then get back to watching "Big Brother".

They'll only be a civil war when TV stops broadcasting.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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I'm with reaper x !



I was gonna leave it at that, but i thought better of it.

The main thing that causes friction is just plain lack of respect for others, be it people from the same or different cultures. There is far more friction on a daily basis (from what I see) from white to white or black to black than there is between 'whites' and 'asians'.

While England is in a bit of a mess regarding immigration, most of the complaints are not directed at those who come here from an asian background, but those from Eastern Europe and in particular Poland. The asian communities have mostly been here far too long now and are accepted as part and parcel of 'England' and what it stands for. You've only got to see who our latest cricket golden-boy is to see that.

I've had the privelidge of working in a totaly mixed (both ethnically and religiously) workforce. If you talk to people from a mix of cultures you'd find we are all similar. We all want the same things. To be able to settle down and raise a family in relative comfort, and be as well off as is possible.

There is always gonna be friction from time to time, and the dreadful BNP exploit this, but your average UK-er would much rather sit down and have a cuppa and a chat than hold a grudge let alone take up arms.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by optimus fett
I dont really know how to pose this question without coming in for some abuse and grief but i'll do my best, lets just clarify right now before i begin:-

i am not a racist or faccist of any description,
i have a few muslim friends,
i speak 3 languages and am well travelled and educated,


Bad start. Thats like saying "I'm not being awkward but...."



I get to speak to a lot of different people from all walks of life. Recentley;more so after the foiled bomb attempts last week, i am increasingly hearing british peoples opinions on the state of the UK and none of them are good relating to how they feel concerning the muslim community.

What is really worrying is the amount of times im hearing the BNP's name cropping up and the way in which people seem to be softening to them and in return their gaining seats whilst maintaining a 'were not so bad' attitude.


I live and work in Bradford, which is the most heavily populated city for Asian immigrants in Yorkshire. The BNP gained a few seats in the local election and then promptly lost them. A former BNP "activist" from Bradford was on a Panorama TV special in the UK about a year ago when he realised what a bunch of total racist scumbags the BNP were and gave evidence to the police about them. I don't hear people talk about the BNP in anything buit a negative way. Maybe you ought to broaden your horizons if pro-BNP stuff is all you are hearing.



Normally well balanced and mild mannered british citizens are getting riled by what they seem to think is a failure by our goverment to let us instill national pride without being labled as a racist.


I think that overt political correctness is crassly stupid.



a portuguese friend of mine pointed out that only the UK goverment would police and protect extremists burning the george cross in the streets of London whilst protecting them from the general public who have no rights to stop it. If you showed up in portugal and burnt our flag the police would bang you up.

I pretty much agree they would, and i cant actualy say i think its wrong..its just not respectfull.


Throwing bricks through peoples windows because they are Asian, harassing them in the street and calling for their removal from the country isn't exactly respectful either is it?

May I add that the act of burning a flag means nothing unless you happen to be wrapped in it. If the combustion of a piece of cloth riles you, seek mental help.



In point my friend thinks our countrys goverment is a joke, the extremists go there because they feel unthreatned by our laws and rules.


I suggest he stays in Portugal then, and concentrates on his own country and the problem he may experience there.



My question is that if you are a british person in the Uk what are your experiences with people you know and there reactions to what appears to be a growing trend towards people openley voicing there disgust at what we allow people to get away with in our country?


I think there is room for a civilised discussion about it. I think that a large majorioty of the problem comes form over-politically correct people who think they are offending someone when they aren't. I am aware that the muslim and sikh communities in Bradford are overtly embarrased by morons from other Authorities who think they are being "correct" by not referring to Christmas etc. The problem is not being caused by the ethnic minorities. Its being caused by outright stupidity.



I sense a tension i have never seen before and i think its getting closer to a flash point, obviously theres going to be attacks directed wrongly at the muslim communitys and innocents are going to get hurt, but what will the return backlash be, it seems that the usually normal 'white' british person is getting fired up and angry and making random statements of aggression caused by frustration.


I think posts like this, that say "obviously theres going to be attacks directed wrongly at the muslim community" are nothing but cleverly written propaganda attempts that belie their supposed "calm" content. Its not obvious at all.



the BNP is dying for this to happen, once they gain momentum they will no doubt saddle back up with the NAZI loons and C18 for some real white power lynchings..we cant let this happen.


Yes. The BNP are facist scumbags and millions of people died in WW2 to prevent lunatics like them getting into power. Thats BNP, FACIST and SCUMBAG, all in capital letters, just to emphasise my thoughts and neutralise the rather clever capital letter triggers you attempted to insert.



whats the solution to diffuse this situation?...because i have no idea.
Regards.


The solution is to understand how PROPAGANDA works. Its how to recognise a double bluff. Its by being street smart, and understanding that the best way to provoke a reaction is by appearing to be reasonable whilst actually not being at all. Its by understanding that phrasing arguments in a clever manner that makes them appear that the normal man in the street is considering them is actually a way of subconciously subverting an independant thought process.

The solution is to DENY IGNORANCE, DENY HATE and DENY RACISM, on all sides of the equation. Do that and everyone will get on just fine.


[edit on 16-8-2006 by neformore]

[edit on 16-8-2006 by neformore]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:17 PM
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Yes. The BNP are facist scumbags and millions of people died in WW2 to prevent lunatics like them getting into power. Thats BNP, FACIST and SCUMBAG, all in capital letters, just to emphasise my thoughts and neutralise the rather clever capital letter triggers you attempted to insert.


what the fook are you going on about?

the letter triggers i attempted to insert???

have a nice cup of coffe and calm down.






Maybe you ought to broaden your horizons if pro-BNP stuff is all you are hearing.


i didnt say it was all i was hearing...try reading things properley.






May I add that the act of burning a flag means nothing unless you happen to be wrapped in it. If the combustion of a piece of cloth riles you, seek mental help.


obviously doesnt rile you, but it really winds me and my friends up, my grand father who fought for this country and the freedom of the people doing the burning sees it as a horrific and blatant lack of respect..have you ever fought for someones freedom at great personal loss?




Throwing bricks through peoples windows because they are Asian, harassing them in the street and calling for their removal from the country isn't exactly respectful either is it?


no..its awful, my cousins are asian half cast and they come in for loads of grief, ive fought their corner many a time.




I think posts like this, that say "obviously theres going to be attacks directed wrongly at the muslim community" are nothing but cleverly written propaganda attempts that belie their supposed "calm" content. Its not obvious at all.


shut up mate...your blatantly accusing me of being a racist facist its just you havent got the bottle to say it out right, i can see your angle a mile off and its the complete reversal of what im saying....the truth is obviously there will be attacks...if you cant see that then youve got your head in the sand..the attacks will come on both sides....its ok though...stay in your bubble.




The solution is to understand how PROPAGANDA works. Its how to recognise a double bluff. Its by being street smart, and understanding that the best way to provoke a reaction is by appearing to be reasonable whilst actually not being at all. Its by understanding that phrasing arguments in a clever manner that makes them appear that the normal man in the street is considering them is actually a way of subconciously subverting an independant thought process.


Propaganda?...i think youve deffinaley got a serious case of paranoia going on..perhaps its you that needs mental help?

You havent mentioned anything to do with the original post?

so once again.."is the uk on the verge of a civil war?"

all i asked was for an opinion from around the UK..not for you to wrongly character assasinate me and draw completley magical and false conclusions.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:43 PM
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in fact nefamore im not letting you get away with this comment so easily





Bad start. Thats like saying "I'm not being awkward but...."


i said the first thing out of respect for others and more importantly for myself,

i just new some one like you would try and turn it round...

read some of my other posts about striving for a world free from violence...its blatantly obvious to everyone else im not the racist that you imply.






May I add that the act of burning a flag means nothing unless you happen to be wrapped in it. If the combustion of a piece of cloth riles you, seek mental help.


HELL YEAH IT DOES!!......(oops...there i go again with my capital letters)

That flag stands for freedom and safety for all under it..it cost the blood of millions to hoist that again and the freedom it stands for....thats why people flock to it, because once under it they know their familys and loved ones are safer than in their own countrys, our system looks after people whos own countrys do not and the idiots have the insult to burn it on our own shores safe in the knowledge that the police will protect them.

When those muppets marhed through london dressed as suicide bombers they should have been shot on site..i mean hell..there dressed as suicide bombers what more evidance do we need.

You further be little the Muslim and Asian communitys with your total lack of understanding and comprehension of what instigates hatred and racial violence..its ok..i would stick up for you wether your white, black or green...skin color doesnt matter to me..it seems to, to you?

Go and burn some pictures of the prophet mohammed in any muslim community..i mean if they react at least we know they need mental help.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:06 PM
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Burning our national flag is a huge dis-respect to the nation that has allowed you to immigrate here and use its health service for free and no doubt put a roof over your head and ensured you have money for food and clothing.

I myself have fought for my country and have great respect for my countrys flag it is a symbol of freedom and choice.

Last week i was in france and was stood in a beach sangar position used by the germans in WW2. It was a sobering visit and to think our men stormed those beaches knowing full well the chances of survival were slim. The reason was to free europe and ensure peace was abundant and also the right to proudly fly our nations flag with great pride.

if i saw anyone burning our nations flag then you better call the police to come and arrest me as id be right in there fists flying



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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is the burning of a flag not treason or incitement of hatred, how can someone burn the british flag in britain thats insane, i have to agree with thesaint on this one going in fists flying sounds like a plan



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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Lets start by looking at what Civil War can mean.


dictionary.reference.com
civil war
n.

1. A war between factions or regions of the same country.
2. A state of hostility or conflict between elements within an organization: “The broadcaster is in the midst of a civil war that has brought it to the brink of a complete management overhaul” (Bill Powell).
3. Civil War The war in the United States between the Union and the Confederacy from 1861 to 1865. Also called War Between the States.
4. Civil War The war in England between the Parliamentarians and the Royalists from 1642 to 1648.


(bolding is for the purpose of highlighting)

Civil war doesn't have to mean we all go grab a musket and pick a side, it can mean two factions within the country fighting each other.
This could be Radical Muslims and Nationalist factions fighting each other, no tanks rolling through the streets and no bombing raids on rebel positions.
A civil war which could (and hopefully won't) happen would better be termed a street war, thugs from both sides bashing each other senseless, petrol bombing places of worship, attacking rallies and the such.

The chances of this happening? Well I wouldn't bet on it happening then again I wouldn't bet on it not happening.
Things are certainly being stirred up, Muslim's are feeling oppressed (more stop and search, feeling they are being blamed for actions of extremists) and other ethnic groups feel as if Muslims are being treated special (hate speeches allowed to proceed, rallies etc).

Truth be told both sides are too blame.

If one side starts something on a large enough scale, the other will retaliate and then who knows how things will proceed.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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The chances of this happening? Well I wouldn't bet on it happening then again I wouldn't bet on it not happening.


thank you mate, your post makes my point far better than i did.




Things are certainly being stirred up, Muslim's are feeling oppressed (more stop and search, feeling they are being blamed for actions of extremists) and other ethnic groups feel as if Muslims are being treated special (hate speeches allowed to proceed, rallies etc).


exactly...again..thank you.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Firstly:
The real question was :are we on the brink oif a civil war?
No, i dont think so,
But, there will certainly be localised unrest!

The problem is on both sides, Sure the muslim community and by this i ONLY MEAN THE GENUINE ones will feel ostricized (spelt wrong) will see people look at them in a different light, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the BNP.
Unfortunatly this is human nature.

The BNP do not speak for the whole country, but we have freedom of expression to an extent in the UK and a lot of people who are not muslim will feel anger towards those muslims who have tried these latest attacks.

Just as the muslim community feels anger towards anyone who wears a national flag, be it a Union /St George/ or flag of Wessex, they are automatically labeled rascist, which is totaly unfounded and untrue...

The burning of our national flag and the "getting away with it" was and is a total disgrace and wont be tolerated for much longer by normal (not right wing) people.

Look what happened when the Mohammed cartoons were put in a Danish paper there was riots...by muslims....
When the Da Vinci code was written did ANY christians riot?
When the film came out again, did any Christians riot or call for beheadings...NO

If the Muslim community wishes to be accepted more , then the community itself should weed out those who go on marches and hold up banners stating "BEHEAD ALL WHO INSULT ISLAM"
and that type of "racial hatred" because that is exactly what it is!!!!

Can you imagine the type of newscoverage a march of White people would get if they held up banners with that type of racial hatered on it?

People in the UK are deffinatly getting very bored and very annoyed with all of this, and im talking about genuine not rascist people, just normal people, who have no allience to any political party.

Civil war, i dont thinks so..well i hope not!
But i can deffinately see localised problems...



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Just as the muslim community feels anger towards anyone who wears a national flag, be it a Union /St George/ or flag of Wessex, they are automatically labeled rascist, which is totaly unfounded and untrue...


That's a lie.

Sorry mate, but I live in a Muslim Community. During the World Cup, nearly all of the houses owned by Muslims and with Muslims living in it had the flag flying. You know why? Because the vast majority of them see themselves as citizens of Britain, born in England and of Pakistani origin and Islamic faith. They are all not one.



The burning of our national flag and the "getting away with it" was and is a total disgrace and wont be tolerated for much longer by normal (not right wing) people.


Why not? What harm does it do?



If the Muslim community wishes to be accepted more , then the community itself should weed out those who go on marches and hold up banners stating "BEHEAD ALL WHO INSULT ISLAM"
and that type of "racial hatred" because that is exactly what it is!!!!


Also said by you...



The BNP do not speak for the whole country, but we have freedom of expression to an extent in the UK and a lot of people who are not muslim will feel anger towards those muslims who have tried these latest attacks.


Can you smell the hypocrisy? Can you smell it within the air surrounding you?

What’s the difference when the BNP call for an African who has been forced to seek refuge status being sent back home to his death and someone calling for the beheading of another innocent person? Nothing. You just decided one is a nice, free exercise of freedom and speech and one isn’t.



People in the UK are deffinatly getting very bored and very annoyed with all of this, and im talking about genuine not rascist people, just normal people, who have no allience to any political party.


Really? Never seen it. Not at work, not at any political event I have been too. I’ve seen a small fringe minority of people who are nothing more than uneducated bigots who believe anything.

No offence, spymaster but you come across as one of those unfortunates who sees stories like “Bar, Bar, Black Sheep” no longer being allowed in Schools and believing it. Even though the newspapers had no evidence and retracted it, the television reported that the story was false and so on and so fourth.

This whole idea that the vast majority of British people are sick of Muslims and Immigrants, is a joke. It’s a joke, which a few people desire to push for their own agenda.



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