The Whole Solar System is Undergoing Global Warming.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Those articles point to the fact that this information has been around for a while, but it "doesn't make it old news" as a lot of people nowadays think that global warming is "something new".

I used to be one of the people who thought human activity was contributing to global warming, but apparently the evidence says otherwise.

Dumping chemicals in the oceans, and dumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere is obviously not good, but how can anyone say that "mankind is making global warming worse" when it has been demonstrated that there have been periods in the past when global warming has been worse, and has happened faster than what we are seeing today?

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Muaddib]

BaH "something new"., the media is good..

Spikes in global warming charts mean nothing if you don't have the overall picture...

I think you fail to realize my point....Your looking at charts and graphs that fit or suit their own needs.
Geoscience is not an exact science, it is made by humans! Everyone has their own agenda in global warming, thus the influence. Your thread is a perfect example of this, lack of duality of scientists vs. scientists. Your just posting on what you want to believe.

Our old friend Mr. Hogland did a 3-part series, "The Interplanetary Day After Tomorrow" in 2004. It covers all the planets with their associated changes, all nicely footnoted.

I know it's Hogland. I know you have to wade through his views, but the data is there and that's the important thing. Too many seem to like to kill the messenger without reading the message first. If the info's good, who cares where it came from?

I think Hogland is way off base with his Hyperdimential Physics. But who knows? I'm more of an Electric Universe man myself

Here the link, enjoy, as always an interesting read:

www.enterprisemission.com...

somebody posted a UFO video in another thread, and I watched it... This kind of relates to this matter of global warming:

video.google.com...

Go to about 1:20:30. There's a crop circle of a Mayan calender. He explains how the calender describes a change in climate, that happens with the sun. 2012 he predicts, as many things predict, a change. There's also a nice map of what Earth will look like if all of this is true.

Can I just start off by noting that its amazing the peopel were arguing about whether the earth was warming for years, but now we're saying that we've been able to show that a handful of other planets are?

Originally posted by Muaddib
This is a fact that not many people know about, and quite a few people, would like that there was no evidence to back this fact, because some people would like the world to believe that human activity is the cause for global warming on Earth.

Who?
Who are you contending is covering up scientific evidence in order to protect the idea that earth's warming is because of increases in greenhouse gases?
Scientists?

In my numerical simulations, the loss of the vortices results in a global temperature change of about 10 K

This is a change in temperature as a result of atmospheric dynamics on jupiter. It has nothing to do with greenhouse gases on earth. It does not suggest an alternative solar system wide driver of the current terrestrial temperature increase.

If the Sun is the cause for global warming in the solar system, as some scientists say, why is it that Pluto, the planet that is the farthest away from the Sun, experiencing the most severe effects, and it is getting worse and worse as it orbits away from the sun?

Because distance from the sun is not the only factor that affects the amount of heat absorbed from the sun. This is why winter isn't defined by distance from the sun.

biocab.org...

Why are these guys being cited as authorities, and other researchers who are trained in climate related sciences and do research in it being ignored?

biocab.org...
We [...make] available biological information to non-scientists through the description of the methods of science in a clear and ease way[...]We are against pseudoscience, fake science, antiscience, solipsism, cultural relativism, non-science and dogmatism.
[...] WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS, NATURISTS, OR HERBORISTS. BIOCAB IS NOT A CLINICAL LABORATORY.

If they have a theory as to what is driving the current increase, then they should submit it to at least a moderately well respected research journal. If they have, and their paper was rejected because it was garbage, then I suppose that they'd have to put it up on a webpage.

biocab.org... Graphics clearly shows that there is not a link between the Global Warming and the increase of Carbon Dioxide in the Atmosphere.

There is both a warming trend and an increase in global atmospheric concentrations of CO2.

instead, we can see a clear relation between Solar Activity (green undashed line) and Global Warming

I don't see it in that graph.

Is the solar system entering a nearby interstellar cloud

This is from a paper from 1978. There has been no more research on this possible cloud??

www.spaceref.com...
The stardust itself is very fine ? just one-hundredth of the width of a human hair. It is unlikely to have much effect on the planets

As can be seen, the Earth is not the only planet undergoing global warming, and human activity is not the cause of global warming in the Solar System, nor on Earth.

Based on a paper from 1978 and a couple of guys that explain biology to lay people??? I'm sorry, but the evidence presented does not support that the increase of greenhouse gas is not the cause of the increase in temperature. You have not demostrated that there is a warming trend throughout the solar system either, nor that the warming on earth, mars, jupter, and pluto are caused by the same thing.

It is way too much of a coincidence, and even the sun is heating up more than it has in 1,000 years.

Please present the data that shows a correlation between solar output of the sun and increased earthly temperature. And then, please explain why that correlation is supposed to be more beleiveable than the correlation between CO2 increase and temperature increase.
Whats more reasonable, that the sun is going nuts, and all of the climatologists are keeping quite about it, or that increases of global concentrations of greenhouse gases are causing it???

but this shows that even if we stop every single car, every single factory and if every single human stopped using AC global warming will continue at the same pace it is going.

It shows no such thing.

they found that for example in the middle ages there was also global warming

Those guys made no such discovery. Its called the Medeival Warm Period, it was known about long before those guys came along.

The effects of warming, or the changes, will be felt more on planets with atmosphere, or astral bodies such as the Sun because their magnetic fields and atmospheres interact with the high energy region the solar system is going through as we speak.

Please first demonstrate that we are going through such a region.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Claims that man-made pollution is causing "unprecedented" global warming have been seriously undermined by new research which shows that the Earth was warmer during the Middle Ages.

All that shows is that the people at the Telegraph are a few years behind on their climate science. Researchers have known for a long time that climate varies greatly and has varied in the historical period.

bothered
This is true with the increase in solar flare activity.

The solar flare cycle is a variable 11 year cycle. It does not explain the long term trend in global warming.

wolfofwar
With it growing, the heat and radiation source gets closer to use, and therefore it gets hotter and stronger.

There is no increase in the sun that explains the current warming trend.

jumpspace
In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane. This is what I believe is responsible for this.

Please explain why. Please explain why that makes more sense than the warming being caused by increases of greenhouse gases.

skadi
As far as the middle ages go, it was not global warming then, it was a mini Ice Age.

Both occured. There was a warming period, and at another time there was a little ice age.

xphilesphan
I think this effectively ends the peseudo-scientific "global warming based on pollution theory"

Please explain how. We have some other planets that have a short term warming trend being observed. Why are the scientists that note this trend correct, but the scientists that don't accept that this means there is a solar warming event count?

westpoint23
Climate changes from time to time, it has happened in the past, and human activity was not the reason for it

The big problem is, none of the reasons for those other warming events is causing this one. Climate varies, from hot house to cold house, and many of the drivers of climate are understood, the tilt of the planets axis, for example, or the amount of 'albedo', which is the reflectiveness of the earth (more reflection, less heat), etc. They do not explain the current warming trend.

So I think things might go back to a normal stable climate, but this could take centuries, or millennia

Or it could get warmer and warmer, year after year, and have disastrous effects on agriculture, society, and the basic factors that affect the distribution of real power across the planet.

Great research Maudibb, voted way above..

It looks to me like Mars and Pluto, for example are being terraformed.

I have yet to understand why people assume it has to be only this way or that way, when a combination of factors is the most logical answer. Ahh, if we could only disconnect reality and put all its parts into their own little undisturb boxes, and find the answers with a wink and a nod.

Bi-lateral organic brains and can do better to see past black and white.



[edit on 17-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

here , have a vote on me 2. peace

Mod Note: Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17/8/2006 by Umbrax]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
I have yet to understand why people assume it has to be only this way or that way, when a combination of factors is the most logical answer. Ahh, if we could only disconnect reality and put all its parts into their own little undisturb boxes, and find the answers with a wink and a nod.

Bi-lateral organic brains and can do better to see past black and white.

I could not have said this better myself, the dualistic point of view on any subject never ceases to amaze me. People that state that it cannot be us destroying the planet must never have been to an industrial town, or ever think about the kind crud being spewed out by third world countries tht have little to none in the way of polution control for the big corporations. Heck if you knew the kind of waste and distruction of fresh water by manufacturing you would crap your pants.

Short sightedness seems to by the biggest downfall of mankind.

I can understand people thinking it could be a combination of natural and man-made factors leading to the observed warming, but, the problem is, no one has been able to show which of the known climate drivers are making up that natural component. The warming trend is inexplicable, without resort to it being triggered by man.

And, as usual, I would caution to say that there is a building consensus amoung scientists, and a solid one amoung climatologists, that man made CO2 is the cause (and having a consensus doesn't mean that we've arrived at 'the truth').

Hey, did anyone else see this article about Mars?

Probe captures gas bursts from Mars' ice cap

Could this help explain some of the warming on Mars some? The only way I could think it wouldn't is if either a) the CO2 escapes the atmostphere, or b) the gas is refrozen every Martian year.

Thoughts anyone?

Originally posted by Nygdan
The warming trend is inexplicable, without resort to it being triggered by man.

Trouble with puting the onus on things beyond our present control, it gives us an excuse to continue our half hazard circle journey.

Here's another parameter it add into the mix.

Dimming the Sun - Nova
Is global dimming masking the full impact of global warming? Some climate experts worry that it is, with the possible consequence that as we reduce pollution, the climate will heat up to unprecedented levels.

I hope you're not suggesting that we are creating "Interplanetary Warming" throughout the entire solar system. We have an atmosphere to keep our gases trapped in. IMO it just proves even more that the warming is a natural phenomenon that occurs on all planets and isn't caused entirely by human activity.

Here's my Misconceptions About Global Warming thread that everyone seems to hate. You can guess my opinion on this topic.

[edit on 18-8-2006 by Yarcofin]

Originally posted by Muaddib
That's a 300% increase in atmospheric pressure in Pluto, which is the highest increase in any planet in the Solar system, and it is increasing as Pluto orbits away from the Sun. If the Sun is the cause for global warming in the solar system, as some scientists say, why is it that Pluto, the planet that is the farthest away from the Sun, experiencing the most severe effects, and it is getting worse and worse as it orbits away from the sun?

Well, that really does make perfect sense when you think about it. Solar heating is a very slow and gradual process. For example, the warmest temperatures of the water in the Great Lakes are in September, which is towards the end of summer in the Northern Hemisphere. Simply, Pluto is entering the its own summer.

You also have to bear in mind that the majority of Pluto's atmosphere is in the form of methane, which is in turn frozen on the surface. As it heats, the methane sublimates and creates the atmosphere. Another note is that Pluto was only discovered recently - We don't know what its atmosphere is normally like.

Also, the seasons here on Earth are not defined by distance from the Sun. If they were, winter for the N. Hemisphere would be summer, as that is when the planet is closest.

Personally, I don't see anything odd about it.

Originally posted by bothered
This is true with the increase in solar flare activity.

Solar flare activity has been decreasing.

Originally posted by Sir Solomon
A question I would like to pose is if there is another source of energy other than clouds within the solor system? Is the sun brighter or putting off more energy?

As the Sun gets older both will happen. This is because in order to sustain fusion with and ever decreasing hydrogen supply it needs to more energy. Of course, the amount of change in energy over the last 1000 years would still be just about nil.

Originally posted by Umbrax
Pluto’s year is 150 of Earth’s years. We haven’t even been monitoring its climate long enough to understand its seasonal changes.

248 years.

Though I completely agree with the second bit.

Originally posted by RedGolem
Actually I saw on a pbs program that the sun has been dimming. This was based on measherments used to determin the amount of watter needed for food crops, and my the amount of evaporation as meashered from a water sorce. This was blamed on the particales in the atmospher.

Exactly... Atmospheric effects cause that. But our atmosphere does not affect the Sun itself, now does it?

Originally posted by jumpspace
Our solar system is passing through the galactic plane.

In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane.

So, you, like most others that believe this, know better where the exact center of the Galactic Plane is than astronomers and physicists who have been studying the Galaxy for years? We only have rough estimates to the size of the galaxy, and only recently realized that we're in a barred-spiral and not just a spiral galaxy. So the idea of knowing exactly when and where the Solar System will pass through this manmade point in space (after all, it's just like the equator) is really laughable.

Originally posted by forestlady
How can our planet not be influenced by 7 billion people living on it and all the fumes CO2 emitted from our cars, etc.?

Keep in mind that there are many cows in the world. Cows release methane gas in more volume than CO2 is released by manmade devices. Also, methane is a lot worse for the ozone layer and is a better greenhouse gas than CO2. So, I blame the cows before anything else. I do my part though, and eat a lot of beef. It's true, I'm an enviromentalist.

Originally posted by SteveR
It looks to me like Mars and Pluto, for example are being terraformed.

Why? How? To what ends? By whom?

[edit on 8/18/2006 by cmdrkeenkid]

Global warming is what gets the headlines because we can see and feel the results. The real problem is that every life support system on earth is in decline, and every lifeform, except farm animals and mankind is in decline. You hear about fresh water shortages, you think thats fron us drinking too much water and washing our cars too much? No its from modern industrial giants that use more fresh water than you could imagine. When is it going to be too late?

How much longer before we cross the enviromental Rubicon?

[edit on 18-8-2006 by LoneGunMan]

wow, just wow

i am agreeing with nygdan today...

global warming? i dunno, but i certainly do know that Hades is freezing.

i would have gave you my way above vote Nygdan, but alas, your a mod and i cannot.
But know that i Would have, because i agree 100% with your sentiments and believe you are posing the Right questions

I also believe that LoneGunman is making excellant points , therefore

You have voted LoneGunMan for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

what a thread indeed

Haarp haarp haarp. I saw on a canadian news channel City Tv that the guy who created the theory of global warming retracted it saying it was too extreme. I've noticed everyone bitches when it's hot but a lot of the record temperatures around here were set a long time ago.. "before global warming". Not to mention nobody says # about global warming when it's below seasonal.. which has been happening quite a bit.. Our planet went through an ice age.. what would you say if you saw the whole world melting would you think global warming? The planets are probably just going through stages of existance. Maybe mars moving closer to earth will change it's surface.

Once some mass genocide goes down global warming won't be as big of an issue as cancer from fallout.. explains the high rate of cancer pretty well.. lots of big nuclear tests in the last 50 years. Smokers have weaker lungs, breathe in radioactive particles, don't breathe them out and get cancer.

"Some people just want to listen to what some environmentalists are claiming, that global warming is happening because of human activity..." - AND - "...human activity is not the cause of global warming in the Solar System, nor on Earth."

I'm glad we finally agree, although I'm still not sold on the idea that things are as bad as many porttray them to be.

All the best to you Muaddib.

The image below illustrates to scale all of the GHGs in the atmosphere rounded up to 400PPM (0.04%) -not including water vapor- as indicated by the red area.


Compare that with atmospheric oxygen for perspective...


Compare that to nitrogen for perspective...


Of that 0.04% of GHGs, the gray part of the magnified red area is human based...


I hope you're all feeling really guilty now.

Nygdan:

jumpspace
In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane. This is what I believe is responsible for this.

Please explain why. Please explain why that makes more sense than the warming being caused by increases of greenhouse gases.

If only earth was experiencing change then I would say it was humans that were causing global climate change.

If you have a number of other planets going through the process then it's obvious earth isn't on its own - it's more probable to be solar system based.

Being solar system based, it could be based on what our Sun is doing OR it could be the actual location of our solar system in the galaxy.

I'm not going to go into why I *believe* the passing through of the galactic plane is causing this to happen as I'll then have to go over my research folders, re-read the information and quote research papers.

I'm not going to do this as I have more important priorities right now.

cmdrkeenkid:

: Originally posted by jumpspace
Our solar system is passing through the galactic plane.

In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane.

So, you, like most others that believe this, know better where the exact center of the Galactic Plane is than astronomers and physicists who have been studying the Galaxy for years? We only have rough estimates to the size of the galaxy, and only recently realized that we're in a barred-spiral and not just a spiral galaxy. So the idea of knowing exactly when and where the Solar System will pass through this manmade point in space (after all, it's just like the equator) is really laughable.

Well, right now ckk, I'm laughing at you because it was from the astronomers and physicists that I came to this belief.

Here's one of many papers worth a read:

"Pulsar Rotation Measures and the Large-Scale Structure of Galactic Magnetic Field"

Can't give a link as it's a PDF.

Cheers

JS

PS: I also believe what many scientists are saying in that pollution is also responsible for global warming, however I also believe that other things are happening to our solar system that are causing greater changes.

Outland:

Brilliant summary!

Pictures speak 1000 words.

Cheers

JS