The Whole Solar System is Undergoing Global Warming.

Originally posted by astrocreep

Originally posted by soficrow

We seem to be mostly on the same page - but I think you're dead wrong here.

Mining, drilling, manufacturing - all stress the environment and create pollution either directly or indirectly, locally and globally.

Could you please provide some examples to illustrate your claim?

...I honestly just don't get how you could come to that conclusion.

Certainly, lets start with the rain forest. Nuff said or should I explain that they cut it down to try and make more farmland because they have no knowledge of crop rotation or fertilization.

!?!

(Actually I meant specifics including place names. ) But I will respond.

Natives don't cut down their own rainforest - companies like United Fruit Growers and McDonald's buy the land cheap, and destroy it.

BTW - Rainforest is lousy for agriculture because there's little topsoil. The natives know this. Many are killed by corporate-paid mercenaries while trying to protect their land and heritage.

Another good example is the one I used in the post before this one. Starving children looking for a clean drink of water. Why is the water dirty? Because no one has the wealth to clean it once its contaminated by human and animal waste..not industry.

I beg to differ. The problem starts with harvesting natural resources - by international corporations - which affects water quality and supply to indigenous populations. Think arsenic in Central and South America for starters - and Coca Cola sucking the ground water and aquifer dry in Africa.

I am also quite certain that you have a good argument with your proposal that industry does cause pollution, however, it does so against the law and risks the repercussions if caught.

Where do you live? ...and when, exactly?

I'm not denying that industry pollutes, but with the wealth that comes from it, we have seen many programs to clean up after it.

Funding for SuperFund clean-ups has been slashed to ribbons over the past few years. Just for example.

I do think and support the mandatory reclaimation of our environment and am glad our country is able to engage in what so many are not.

You mean like sending the polluters offshore to destroy other environments instead? ...And ignoring the fact that we're all part of the same ecosystem.

..Ihave not dismissed anything except the notion that all climate changes are manmade.

... I did not and will not go to the extreme in the other direction.

I think you tend to over-balance, whether or not you mean to do so.

Thats what started this whole thread, the presentation of probable evidence of solar system wide change and the attempt to censor it.

You might remember - I posted this a year ago:

Ancient Interstellar Collision: May Help Explain Climate Change

I took a lot of heat for it, but the attempts at censorship didn't touch the attacks I've experienced with other, more "radical" threads.

I realize that without it, we are as screwed as we are with it. Its a catch 22. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

We have re-created our world, down to the molecular level - and the microbes are adapting much, MUCH more quickly than we can.

I have been monitoring the research and science, but just had it brought home to me big time. Not one, but TWO friends recently ended up in hospital with minor wounds that turned into 'sores' that wouldn't heal - went on IV-delivered antibiotics that did NOT work - both had amputation recommended but refused. The first had the flesh stripped to the bone from ankle to knee. The second is being operated on tomorrow. Don't know what will happen.

But I do know it's all connected. I also know that we are being totally misinformed about what's on the table here. By both sides of the non-debate.


.

Well sofi, I will consider myself more educated from having this discussion with you. I'm not on a side politcally so your arguments don't threaten me at all. In fact, in discussing issues of such nature with someone who also seeks to know the facts instead of trying to pass their will off as facts, I consider myself all the better for it. Thank you.


So, from the point at which we are, whats to do? Regress in our economy and industry or progress but in a responsible way? Responsible beginning with honesty about climate change and laying down scaremongering and educating people about the true nature of the planet on which they live. I think if we recognize the affects of pollution on local climate and environment, that should certainly be enough incentive without grandious suppositions.

Originally posted by astrocreep
Well sofi, I will consider myself more educated from having this discussion with you. I'm not on a side politcally so your arguments don't threaten me at all. In fact, in discussing issues of such nature with someone who also seeks to know the facts instead of trying to pass their will off as facts, I consider myself all the better for it. Thank you.

Me too. Thank YOU.

So, from the point at which we are, whats to do? Regress in our economy and industry or progress but in a responsible way?

Change doesn't need to be regression - it's all about attitude. ...and yes, I think we can progress in a responsible way. ...I also agree that honesty in education is crucial.

...I got distracted today watching a NOVA show about our planet's core - the fact that the earth's electromagnetic field is dropping - and the larger fact that we likely are entering a pole-shifting period that may last several thousand years before it stabilizes. Very interesting, although I didn't explain it well (late night fuzzy brain).

Anyway - it got me thinking about how very complicated and interrelated everything really is. Almost impossible to sort through.

The truth is - there is much going on in our world that we simply cannot change. At the same time, there is much hapening that we can, and should change - and other stuff we should just deal with differently. Probably we need to get busy and figure out which is which, and what exactly we can do. And why... It's always a good idea to identify the main goals.

For example, if our primary objective, as a species, is to secure and centralize lots and lots of cash to build a really big spacecraft to save an elite group from the coming cataclysmic conjunction - then we probably should continue doing exactly what we are already doing.

However, if the main goal is to ensure that whomever survives on earth, wherever they are located, they can carry on the very best that humanity has to offer, and be humanity's legacy - then we will need to shift our focus and rethink our priorities. For starters, no one can predict who or where will be safe, so everyone would have to be educated to the highest human standard in every way, just to be sure.

i have no idea what could be causing it but, its just jupiter, mars and earth nothing more so not really the ENTIRE solar system

it's really weird pluto's getting affected to, seeing how far out it is and how little heat it gets,

the planet X nibiru/nemesis thing... i have been on dozens of sites on that, i know the entire story basically, its plausible but illogical it seems way too far fetched, so there has to be another reason

but still i have no clue what's causing it. edit

actually it could be just natural cycles, we know earth has one, pluto is said to have one about every 500 or so years of natural heating

[edit on 25-10-2006 by grapesofwrath]

Originally posted by grapesofwrath


the planet X nibiru/nemesis thing... i have been on dozens of sites on that, i know the entire story basically, its plausible but illogical it seems way too far fetched, so there has to be another reason

[edit on 25-10-2006 by grapesofwrath]

your right there are many made up stories and some which do tell the truth.

but this is not far fetched at all.

"to god nothing is impossible..even if it be bad or good.

and nibiru is here for the good..not evil like some sites would have you to believe.

fear is only a illusion..so keep an open mind to this scenario...because i am betting it will happen.

this is the very reason why the last star wars movie was "return of the sith" which should really be "return of the annunaki"

dont get me wrong ,the sith are not the annunaki..but compare them with the jedi..the good forces...thats hwo they are.

there on a mission,just like we are..and the mission is higher learning,soul evolution....its time now to wake up.

zechariah(famous prophet) and also the name of the man who led the way into all the interent talk we have about nibiru and the annunaki today.

nibiru is real..and you dont need to take my word for it...or zechariah's...youll just see when it comes..like the rest of thew world will

You have voted Muaddib for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

I know this is a little late. I kind of brushed off reading this thread until now with the upcoming release of the UN report on global warming...

U.N. climate report will shock the world

It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next few years and whether there is anything we can even do to change the outcome.

Great research!

muaddib,

found a link to your thread on another site,
but i also found this link that addresses the Heliospheres warming
at a 3rd forum....just minutes ago



the document: PLANETOPHYSICAL STATE OF THE EARTH AND LIFE
www.tmgnow.com...

the page is dead on with the items you also connected in your OP



at the bottom of page there are several links to further detailed reading

1.0 Transformation of the Solar System
www.tmgnow.com...

2.0 The Earth Reorganization Process
(no need for address- - -)

so, actually all 3 of these pages make a fuller body of knowledge



for a over-view perspective one may link to helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...
click to enlarge the image of the heliosphere... which is racing at several miles per second
in its orbit around the galactic core.


this scientists papers have been around since 1998....
the data from previous deepspace crafts must have indicated
that the heliosphere=solar system was racing toward a gas & particle cloud
which has now been increasing havoc on the outer then inner planets & sun for more than a decade already

Originally posted by RedGolem

Originally posted by jumpspace
Our solar system is passing through the galactic plane.

In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane.

This is what I believe is responsible for this.

Good research too

Cheers

JS

Jumpspace
by any chance could you exsplain what the galactic plane is or provide a link to what will exsplain it?

Here you have a site that explains what is the galactic plane. en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 25-2-2007 by Darthy]

[edit on 25-2-2007 by Darthy]

Right On, Arctaurus26us! If it's politicized you must question it.
I am brand new member, and this is an older topic but here is my comment-
I have been researching this topic for 6 months now and I am convinced that GW cannot possibly be manmade. They are using pseudo-science to back up their claims of greenhouse effect.
First of all, how much CO2 must be in an atmosphere the size of Earth's to create a greenhouse effect that would cause GW? And then, wouldn't that amount of CO2 to cause greenhouse effect also cause the atmosphere to be much heavier than it is now, like Venus'?
Those are obvious questions, so why have they never entered what I consider common sense into their studies? I don't feel the atmosphere pushing down on me any worse than it did ten years ago, do you? If I did, then I would say that yes, GW is manmade and caused by CO2, but then again, I'd be dead.
Here's another reason why we shouldn't buy the crap they are selling- now that the govt 'admits' to GW (as if they didn't know it before), and they have their shills like Gore to sell everyone on the idea that it's manmade, NOW they want to TAX your carbon footprint!! YES they are talking about it!!! Anyone else smell a rat?
And why won't mainstream media pick up the HUGE story about GW on Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, Neptune, Triton, Saturn, the interstellar gas cloud, cosmic rays, etc? Seems like if they really wanted to practice good journalism, they wouldn't push one theory, they'd have all aspects of the argument, but the govt doesn't want folks to be informed. And who owns the MSM anyway.
The Mayans knew we would be entering a phase of GW, thru astronomy. Their calendar had many aspects, which undoubtedly galactic cycles was one. They understood that the galaxy, like the solar system, also revolves around its center, and wobbles too- which is why our solar system will come into the dusty ecliptic (galactic plane) in 2012.
If I can believe the experts of Mayan heiroglyphs on the History channel, the Maya predicted the Earth would be done in by a massive deluge by 2012. Kinda makes sense, since the ice caps are melting so quickly.
Who were these people? Ancient astronauts? Survivors of Atlantis? And where did they all go?
Another thing- if we are indeed entering an interstellar dust cloud, then the sun's active state makes sense, and then so does solar system wide GW, which also affects the planets' satellites.
Still such a fascinating subject.

fluffygreen, welcome to ATS. Glad to have you on board. One comment on your post. There is quite a bit of issue on this and every other medium currently cussing and discussing this subject. That being differentiating between science and politics. You seem to be bringing some good points forward and some intriging ideas as well. Its fine and dandy to discuss Mayan predictions and geophysical science but when those begin to trespass upon the political weapon of global warming, you might as well be criticizing some's religion...and thats what it is. When your faith in something causes you to try and supress facts that contradict your beliefs, you have yourself a religion.

Again, welcome and enjoy ATS.

Flufflygreen, the Earth has had 10 to 16 tiumes more CO2 than it has now and it never became Venus or Mars.

There have been times when Earth had 4,000 to 4,400 ppm, now it has 370 ppm to 380 ppm, of CO2 yet temperatures were similar to the present, as during the late Ordovician period.

The Earth has had CO2 levels at over 7,000ppm, and there was no "runaway global Warming", nor did the planet become Venus or Mars.


Anyways, some members have claimed that interstellar clouds do not have charged particles which do influence the climate on Earth, and here is an article from ESA which refutes their claims and corroborates what i have said.

Our Solar System entered an interstellar cloud 10,000 years ago. Today it is speeding through this nebulosity at Mach 2 behind a supersonic shock wave - in much the same way that a Concorde crosses the Atlantic at supersonic speed. Since its formation 4.6 billion years ago our Solar System has encountered numerous interstellar clouds, knots, filaments, shells and bubbles of different sizes and contents on its path through the Milky Way. For more than 80 years astronomers have been attracted by these past and future encounters, have tried to understand the physics behind them in order to decipher the dynamic interplay between the interstellar material and the Solar System.

There is some chance that the Solar System will cross small dense clouds that have diameters up to 100 times the distance from the Earth to the Sun. These encounters may increase the number of interstellar charged particles bombarding Earth, with the risk of altering the climate here. Our interstellar environment may thus be important for the short and long-term prospects for life on Earth.

www.spaceref.com...

and another article I have posted before states.

ESA sees stardust storms heading for Solar System

PRESS RELEASE
Date Released: Monday, August 18, 2003
Source: Artemis Society

Until ten years ago, most astronomers did not believe stardust could enter our Solar System. Then ESA's Ulysses spaceprobe discovered minute stardust particles leaking through the Sun's magnetic shield, into the realm of Earth and the other planets. Now, the same spaceprobe has shown that a flood of dusty particles is heading our way.
...........
What is surprising in this new Ulysses discovery is that the amount of stardust has continued to increase even after the solar activity calmed down and the magnetic field resumed its ordered shape in 2001.

Scientists believe that this is due to the way in which the polarity changed during solar maximum. Instead of reversing completely, flipping north to south, the Sun's magnetic poles have only rotated at halfway and are now more or less lying sideways along the Sun's equator. This weaker configuration of the magnetic shield is letting in two to three times more stardust than at the end of the 1990s. Moreover, this influx could increase by as much as ten times until the end of the current solar cycle in 2012.

www.spaceref.com...

Ulysses sees Galactic Dust on the rise
01 Aug 2003

Since early 1992 Ulysses has been monitoring the stream of stardust flowing through our Solar System. The stardust is embedded in the local galactic cloud through which the Sun is moving at a speed of 26 kilometres every second. As a result of this relative motion, a single dust grain takes twenty years to traverse the Solar System. Observations by the DUST experiment on board Ulysses have shown that the stream of stardust is highly affected by the Sun's magnetic field.
.............
Unlike Earth, however, the Sun reverses its magnetic polarity every 11 years. The reversal always occurs during solar maximum. That's when the magnetic field is highly disordered, allowing more interstellar dust to enter the Solar System. It is interesting to note that in the reversed configuration after the recent solar maximum (North negative, South positive), the interstellar dust is even channelled more efficiently towards the inner Solar System. So we can expect even more interstellar dust from 2005 onwards, once the changes become fully effective.

sci.esa.int...



[edit on 29-3-2007 by Muaddib]

I believe that this thread should be floated as it has undeniable proof that humans causing GW is a myth and the sun is the main culprit.
My 2 cents

"Of course, even if human-induced Global Warming, or Global Warming itself turns out to be bogus, there's still reasons to protect the environment from man-made damage, many personally believe. However, it won't be as easy of a battle to fight without a large issue such as Global Warming behind them" -jessie farrell meteorologist

so its simple manipulation/marketing surprise surprise

read again and u will understand the backing this is getting because the elite's understand they can manipulate the enviornmentalists who push for industrial regulations and some elite's champion this idea publically but privately see it as an opportunity to take away some rights in the name of becoming safer from global warming while making it look like they are willing to make industrial regulations changes while they will be insignifigant



[edit on 5-4-2007 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by jumpspace
Our solar system is passing through the galactic plane.

In 2012 we'll pass the dead centre of the galactic plane.

This is what I believe is responsible for this.

Good research too

Cheers

JS

Ihave to agree with jumpspace here I think or feel it all has to do with us entering and centering with the galactic plane and the more intense gases and particles that we are just now starting to enter.

Originally posted by Muaddib
This is a fact that not many people know about, and quite a few people, would like that there was no evidence to back this fact, because some people would like the world to believe that human activity is the cause for global warming on Earth. I am not advocating that releasing harmful gases, and chemicals in the oceans and atmosphere are good, but after a few years of research, I have come to understand that global warming is happening in the Solar System, not just on Earth.

Some people just want to listen to what some environmentalists are claiming, that global warming is happening because of human activity, and we are the cause for the extreme changes in climate we have been seeing lately getting worse and worse.

I will let now the facts speak for themselves as to what is really happening.

Mars may be going through a period of climate change, new findings from NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter suggest.

Odyssey has been mapping the distribution of materials on and near Mars' surface since early 2002, nearly a full annual cycle on Mars. Besides tracking seasonal changes, such as the advance and retreat of polar dry ice, the orbiter is returning evidence useful for learning about longer-term dynamics.

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

Martian Ice Shrinking Dramatically

New gullies that did not exist in mid-2002 have appeared on a Martian sand dune.

That's just one of the surprising discoveries that have resulted from the extended life of NASA's Mars Global Surveyor, which this month began its ninth year in orbit around Mars. Boulders tumbling down a Martian slope left tracks that weren't there two years ago. New impact craters formed since the 1970s suggest changes to age-estimating models. And for three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in progress.

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

Prediction of a global climate change on Jupiter
Philip S. Marcus

Top of pageJupiter's atmosphere, as observed in the 1979 Voyager space craft images, is characterized by 12 zonal jet streams and about 80 vortices, the largest of which are the Great Red Spot and three White Ovals that had formed1 in the 1930s. The Great Red Spot has been observed2 continuously since 1665 and, given the dynamical similarities between the Great Red Spot and the White Ovals, the disappearance3, 4 of two White Ovals in 1997−2000 was unexpected. Their longevity and sudden demise has been explained5 however, by the trapping of anticyclonic vortices in the troughs of Rossby waves, forcing them to merge. Here I propose that the disappearance of the White Ovals was not an isolated event, but part of a recurring climate cycle which will cause most of Jupiter's vortices to disappear within the next decade. In my numerical simulations, the loss of the vortices results in a global temperature change of about 10 K, which destabilizes the atmosphere and thereby leads to the formation of new vortices. After formation, the large vortices are eroded by turbulence over a time of 60 years—consistent with observations of the White Ovals—until they disappear and the cycle begins again.

www.nature.com...

Pluto is undergoing global warming, researchers find
October 9, 2002

Division for Planetary Sciences in Birmingham, AL.
Hi Friends,

I am taking notes on things that GOV should do to avoid Global warming.

globalwarming-awareness2007-arshad.com...

Please help me expand the topic.

Thanks!
Arshad

Originally posted by astrocreep

Hi Friends,

I am taking notes on things that GOV should do to avoid Global warming.

globalwarming-awareness2007-arshad.com...

Please help me expand the topic.

Thanks!
Arshad

Well sofi, I will consider myself more educated from having this discussion with you. I'm not on a side politcally so your arguments don't threaten me at all. In fact, in discussing issues of such nature with someone who also seeks to know the facts instead of trying to pass their will off as facts, I consider myself all the better for it. Thank you.


So, from the point at which we are, whats to do? Regress in our economy and industry or progress but in a responsible way? Responsible beginning with honesty about climate change and laying down scaremongering and educating people about the true nature of the planet on which they live. I think if we recognize the affects of pollution on local climate and environment, that should certainly be enough incentive without grandious suppositions.

The problem is that some people think they can stop or mitigate Climate Change/Global Warming because they thinkthe major reason for this happening is mankind, while others see it as more of a natural occurrence.

Yes mankind is adding CO2 to the atmosphere but the amount of CO2 mankind has added is nothing in comparison to the amounts the Earth has had CO2 in the past. CO2 also always lags temperature increases, even during the current warming temperatures had been increasing for at least 260 years in most of the world and in some regions even 360 before CO2 levels began to increase.

Also as this thread has shown this is not happening only on Earth. Some might claim there could be other reason why this is happening in other planets, but the things is that it has been happening in other planets at the same time that it happened on Earth and it is too much of a coincidence that so many planets in our solar system and even the sun are going through some changes which haven't happened for a very long time.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Also as this thread has shown this is not happening only on Earth. Some might claim there could be other reason why this is happening in other planets, but the things is that it has been happening in other planets at the same time that it happened on Earth and it is too much of a coincidence that so many planets in our solar system and even the sun are going through some changes which haven't happened for a very long time.

How do we know what changes other planets in the solar system have been going through in the past? We only have data for a few years?

[edit on 26-4-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

How do we know what changes other planets in the solar system have been going through in the past? We only have data for a few years?

[edit on 26-4-2007 by melatonin]

We know that the output of the Sun has been increasing in the past 60 years more than during the last 8,000 years. Changes that happen in the Sun affect not only Earth but the other planets in the solar system too.

Here is again a graph showing the recent increase in solar flares is the highest it has been for over 8,000 years.



[edit on 26-4-2007 by Muaddib]

We know that during the 11 year solar cycles there are fluctuations in the temperature of the sun of 1.5 degrees K, but we also know that during the last 60 years the radiance of the sun has been increasing. Dr. Gray puts that increase to 0.014 degrees K (Kelvin) per year, which added up for the last 60 years amounts to an increase of 0.84 degrees kelvin plus the fluctuations that happen within the solar cycle. We also know that small changes in the sun have affected the Earth's climate greatly in the past, and most problably those changes that are happening to the sun are part of the reason why for example the magnetic field of the Earth is weaker now than at any time in the last 780,000 years.



That image can be found at.
image.gsfc.nasa.gov...