Originally posted by Escrotumus
The arabs in that part of the world are so mired in religious beliefs and hocus pocus that they are literally 500 years behind western culture in every way. We are in a war of cultures here and its us vs them.

Hmm when we have US and UK leaders who claim to be influenced in their decisions by 'god', an Israel that justifies itself as a politico-religious state & is supported by many Americans for fundamentalist religious reasons I'm not sure accusations of 'hocus-pocus' are a good idea.

Exactly who are 'us' and 'them'?

If you're one of 'us' then, I'm afraid, I'm definitely one of 'them'

I'm sure your country would be glad to hear that...

Anyway, GWB is about as religious as Madonna. He just said that to pander to the redneck vote. He would burst into flames if he walked into a church as we all know. The us vs them analogy is the Muslim vs. Judaeo/Christian religious war that is going on. Whether you like it or not that is what is happening. Like I said earlier, I have no love for anyone over there but I have a bit more love for Israel since they are a democracy and actually encourage freedom and western values.

Well, if you want to make up your own meanings for phrases, feel free, but don't expect people to know what the hell you're talking about. And if you want to get technical, "anti-semitic" means hating Semitic peoples - which includes both Arabs and Jews. However commonly the phrase is used to denote bigotry against Jews.

New anti-Semitism. Starting in the latter part of the 20th century, a new style of anti-semitism began to appear. The basis of this anti-Semitism appears to be more political in nature, often overlapping, and being (intentionally) confused with anti-Zionism. This form of anti-Semitism pervades Left wing politics in both Europe & North America, and is characterized by borrowing language and concepts from anti-Zionism.

I didn't make it up as it is clearly defined on wikipedia and numerous other sites. Like I said before, broad strokes.

Originally posted by Escrotumus
Please, if you think that Israel is the reason that politics in America are so corrupt these days then you really are choosing to believe in conspiracy theories. Politicians here were corrupt long before Israel was around. Personally I have no love for anyone in that area of the world, but i can guarantee you that if I have to choose sides then I am choosing the side of the one true democracy there that is most likely to be on our side and share our interests. The arabs in that part of the world are so mired in religious beliefs and hocus pocus that they are literally 500 years behind western culture in every way. We are in a war of cultures here and its us vs them. When the rubber hits the road whose side will you be on? I pray you choose wisely.

I personally think you are backing the wrong horse. Israel spends millions just on PR image alone every year, and for what? To look good in American eyes? For what purpose? Its not helping America, its not helping Americans. They spy on us, have attacked and killed our fellow citizens and frankly we dont know what else they could have done under false flag operations.

Arab countries have gotten aid from us but never on the level that Israel has and you cannot hold oil profits against them because Americans owning american companies profit from us just as much if not more since they are buying oil from the Arabs and tack on a profit on top of that.

Share our interests? Thats higly unlikely. Its more of the fact that if our interests happen to fall in the same place at the right time would be more accurate. This myth that has been formed has been one of the reasons why these extremists have always critisized us. If they see Israel oppressing their kind, then so too America sharing Israels interests must be wanting the same thing as well. As of lately, attacking Iraq,torturing Muslims,keeping them imprisoned for long periods of time, supplying Israel with arms used to attack and kill arabs/muslims, now recently this new fad of Muslim bashing, this new idea of racial profiling in airports and targetting all these Muslim groups for investigations and undercover operations is making them appear to be right , and it almost appears that we are mimicing Israeli security measures taken against Palestinians. Humiliation, torture,imprisonment, detainment,even airport security...all signature israeli policies. We are using them as consultants on many of these issues. Billions of $ aside from the aid being paid to them for their training and consultation.

We see Israel failing miserably controlling their problems. Why we would adopt their same methods and expect them to work is beyond me. Its just more bait to attract the terrorists to us and to keep the money flowing to israel.

Originally posted by Escrotumus

Hey, I'll admit, I hate Israel. Infact, I despise them. Is it because they're Jewish? No.

Then you too are an anti-semite. Not a slam, just a literal fact based on known criteria.

I know many people of the Jewish faith, who I consider friends... if I were an anti-semite, I would not be friends with these people. I don't hate the Jewish people, or their culture. I hate Israel as a state. If Lebanon had committed the atrocious acts that Israel has committed, and occupied other nations lands with military force, then I'd hate Lebanon. That doesn't mean that I hate all muslims, or all arabs, but simply, that I don't support the state of Lebanon.


Now, if you would like me to be anti-semetic, I'm sure you could sway my opinion to hate all people of the Jewish Faith.

Starting in the latter part of the 20th century, a new style of anti-semitism began to appear.

In other words, a politically expedient fiction that lets you use a loaded phrase like "anti-semitism" to avoid honestly debating the issues and resort to name-calling instead.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Lebanon was punished. Pure and simple.

They were punished for allowing a known and admitted terrorist group do the following:

1) exist withing their borders
2) participate in their system of government
3) interact, receive arms, and receive money from known state sponsor of terrorism
4) launch terrorist attacks against its neighbors from with the borders of Lebanon

They were also punished for NOT doing the following:

1) publicly disavowing terrorism
2) criminalizing terrorist groups and political parties
3) arresting wanted international terrorists living within their borders
4) stopping the military and intelligence services of Syria and Iran from directly supporting and supplying a criminal organization that lived within their borders
5) stopping the frequent Hezbollah rocket attacks on its Israeli neighbor to the south
6) doing nothing to discourage the Lebanese people to not get involved with this element (who, in all likelihood would just assume take control of Lebanon and turn it into yet another radial Islamic state - sorry Christians and Druze).

Hezbollah is a cancer in a healthy body. It must be excised. Some healthy flesh will undoubtedly need to be sacraficed in order to accomplish this. Lebanon is like the chain smoker, diagnosed with lung cancer, who cannot or will not put down the cigarettes. Now they have had to endure their first round of chemotheraphy, and they want to blame the doctors for making them ill. Yet the butts still remain in their shirt pocket...........

^^^^^

some see it that way.

some see them as freedom fighters.

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I see them as freedom fighters.

Originally posted by alpha_omega


I see them as freedom fighters.

Why are people who launch rockets into civilian areas to intentionally kill as many civilians as possible freedom fighters to you?

Originally posted by Escrotumus

Hey, I'll admit, I hate Israel. Infact, I despise them. Is it because they're Jewish? No.

Then you too are an anti-semite. Not a slam, just a literal fact based on known criteria.

signature
Escro's Law: As a thread grows longer, the probability of somebody pulling the race card and crying racism approaches one."

...And the probabilty has just hit one....dont ya just love irony

Originally posted by Pyros

Hezbollah is a cancer in a healthy body. It must be excised. Some healthy flesh will undoubtedly need to be sacraficed in order to accomplish this. Lebanon is like the chain smoker, diagnosed with lung cancer, who cannot or will not put down the cigarettes. Now they have had to endure their first round of chemotheraphy, and they want to blame the doctors for making them ill. Yet the butts still remain in their shirt pocket...........

Its people like you who appointed the Israelis as being the doctors of the middle east. Its just a shame that the rest of us have to suffer for your choices as well as the 3000 people that died in the WTC as a result of your doctors mistreatment and diagnosis. I think the doctor is about to be sued for malpractice pretty soon. The hospital patients are about to revolt and force the doctor to drink his own medicine.
The patients know exactly what the doctors have been doing..its too bad the board of directors have been given bogus balance sheets. Your doctor is gonna lose his license soon.

signature
Escro's Law: As a thread grows longer, the probability of somebody pulling the race card and crying racism approaches one."

...And the probabilty has just hit one....dont ya just love irony

Timski, If you were paying attention to this thread then you would have read the part earlier where i quoted:

Anti semitic remarks are a broad stroke. Being anti semitic doesn't necessarily mean he hates jews or Israel as a race or for their culture. Another meaning of anti-semitic means a strong dislike for Jews and Israeli politics. It's pretty evident to me and everyone else that in this perspective he is anti-semitic based on his comments and his little 'ban israeli goods' signature. Please don't put words in my mouth when you infer that I was calling him a racist. If I meant to call him a racist then that's what I would have said.

I even put the specific part that should concern you in bold so you wouldn't miss it this time around.

As far as the anti-semite comment is concerned; once again I already stated earlier that being labeled an anti-semite doesn't necessarily mean you are being labeled a racist. The man clearly stated he hated Israel, which by definition (once again so you won't miss it) qualifies him as an anti-semite. Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't define the word, I only seek to prove its definition in this case, which I have already adequately done. You will be hard pressed to see me call someone a racist unless I feel very strongly that they actually are one. It has been known to happen, but I don't see any evidence of racism here, only people on opposite sides of a great political divide.

I think your post is a fine example of pasting something out of context and I would hope and expect better from someone who is serious in discussing the issue amicably.

Nicely put Pyros and ReinoidReceptor. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one on here on the side of western values and freedom in the middle east.

We all know Israel can be sneaky and treacherous, but if I have to go into battle fighting for democracy, freedom, and the continuance of western culture then there is nobody else I want fighting beside me other than an Israeli. It's not like we Americans aren't shifty and self-serving too when we need to be. I can't for the life of me understand why they should be held to a higher moral standard when they are surrounded on all sides by terrorists that would happily sneak on a bus full of Israeli women and children just so they could blow it up and martyr themselves?? You wait until half of what Israel has endured for the past decade starts going on here in the US and you all will see just how sneaky, treacherous and self-serving we Americans can be too. If you think we are bad now then 'you aint seen nothing yet' when that type of things starts up here. I only wish Israel would have had the gull to stick it out and cut the head off the serpent and not buckle under the UN pressure.

Its people like you who appointed the Israelis as being the doctors of the middle east. Its just a shame that the rest of us have to suffer for your choices as well as the 3000 people that died in the WTC as a result of your doctors mistreatment and diagnosis.

I'm sure you sat back and thought yourself very clever for scribing this little rebuttal, but somehow I don't think the 3000 people that died in the WTC towers, the 242 US Marines that died in their sleep in the barracks in Beirut, or the 12 sailors that were killed in the explosion on the USS Cole are laughing. Ohh, I forgot, those sneaky Israelis and their false flag operations were the real culprits behind these massacres. I'm sure it was just retribution for failed American policies in the middle east. Everyone knows that these types of things are justified in situations like this....

Pie, I think you've pretty much blamed everyone and everything for the woes in the middle east, other than the people who are the ones responsible. *HINT HINT* *Those would be the terrorists in case you were wondering, i.e. Hezbollah and Al Quaeda*

Originally posted by Escrotumus

Its people like you who appointed the Israelis as being the doctors of the middle east. Its just a shame that the rest of us have to suffer for your choices as well as the 3000 people that died in the WTC as a result of your doctors mistreatment and diagnosis.

I'm sure you sat back and thought yourself very clever for scribing this little rebuttal, but somehow I don't think the 3000 people that died in the WTC towers, the 242 US Marines that died in their sleep in the barracks in Beirut, or the 12 sailors that were killed in the explosion on the USS Cole are laughing. Ohh, I forgot, those sneaky Israelis and their false flag operations were the real culprits behind these massacres. I'm sure it was just retribution for failed American policies in the middle east. Everyone knows that these types of things are justified in situations like this....

Pie, I think you've pretty much blamed everyone and everything for the woes in the middle east, other than the people who are the ones responsible. *HINT HINT* *Those would be the terrorists in case you were wondering, i.e. Hezbollah and Al Quaeda*

You accepted Osama Bin Ladens responsibilty for the WTC when he sent a televised message yet you ignored the messages contents after that. Thats very convenient. The man stated exactly why they had attacked us.

As for the Cole and The Marine Barracks, first of all its never been proven without a shadow of a doubt who committed that attrocity, and yes it is possible it was a false flag, several different groups accepted responsibility for it, and the evidence given to the US Court to say it was Hizbollah was given by who? It might not have been Mossad could it?

The Cole was also another attack on the US directly linked to our support of Israel. Why do you try to avoid the reasoning behind it? Do you fear the truth?

I don't blame everyone! Why do you put words in my mouth? If you believe that none of this has to do with israels treatment of Palestinian people , then fine, just attribute it to a particular religion. I will see it for what it is. In the meantime your blindness will attract and cause more death, and if you are one of these Christians who hold Israel above everything or even someone that is Jewish and are doing this because of your religious beliefs, then you are just as bad as they are. Sooner or later people are going to realize the cause and possibly try to put a stop to this madness. That little splotch of land is not worth the loss of the freedom or security that America once had not too long ago. Anyone who believes it is should have their head examined.

I also didn't hear you mention the USS Liberty in there..wonder why. Were they considered a sacrifice to the cause or something? What about Jonathon Pollard? he's a hero to israel...he put all of America's lives at stake for the sake of Israels.


I have never denied an event was done by a terrorist, but I have always heard people deny WHY they did what they did, and its becoming obvious that certain people will not admit what the connection is. People here will accuse Muslim parents in palestine of teaching their children to blow themselves up but in the meantime they won't say what it is that causes them to do such drastic things. Something is causing them to do it. Its not the air and its not their religion. WAKE UP

Back on track?

Who should pay for Israel's wanton destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure and to clear up their UXO's?

Originally posted by Strangerous
Back on track?

Who should pay for Israel's wanton destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure and to clear up their UXO's?

Any damage that was done not pertaining to a rescue attempt should be the responsibility of the attacker. Obviously bombing an entire apartment building did nothing to find the soldiers especially if they were IN or UNDER the building. The reason for the attack on Lebanon was stated as "To Rescue the Soldiers". This was not a rescue attempt by any means.

Personally I agree with you but I feel some on here may take a contrary view

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Yes Israel should pay some for the damage they have done. Of course, it depends if the US gives Israel extra allowance this year or not.

Israel has been a good boy this year, I think we will throw em a bone. We will give Lebanon aid and Israel will take credit.

I would not send money just yet, I would wait and see if Israel decides it wants to blow more people (I mean Hezbollah targets) up or not.