Hispanic Activists Sue Over Illegal Immigrant Crackdown in Pa.

Originally posted by DYepes

To express hate for these people is horribly prejudiced because it is expressing hate for people who are simply uneducated on our customs and trying to get away from horrible life.

[edit on 8/16/2006 by DYepes]

This has nothing to do with hating people, and everything to do with the benefits they get that they don't pay for, but that U.S. citizens pay for and legal immigrants.

I've worked with Mexicans and they are ( for the most part) the hardest working people I have ever worked with.

There is nothing wrong with immigrants coming to the U.S. to better themselves, hell, our families were immigrants at one time. But they went through the legal process of becoming legal immigrants because they wanted to become US citizens.

It has been that way since our country began.

Try going to Mexico to live, you have to be sponsored by a company to employ you, or if you don't you have to prove you have at least an income of $1,300 a month to become a legal immigrant.

Our immigration laws aren't that tough, all they need to do is put the effort in.



[edit on 16/8/06 by Keyhole]

All I am saying is if we catch illegal immigrants, why don't we just put them through a citizenship program instead of treating them like first degree murderers that should never see the sun rise on this side of the border again.

As a matter of fact, I don't see why our government should not just ask the people of Mexico, not the corrupt officials of Mexico, if they wish to become the next state of the union. That would be a wonderful way to bolster each others economies, adding a huge new population to our taxing system, and decreasing the border to less than 30% of what it is now.

They keep their flag as the state flag, and we simply begin adding stars along the stripes. Sounds like a perfect solution to me.

The point of making it difficult for them to find lodging here is because that removes one of the attractive incentives they have for coming here illegaly. They slap legal immigrants in the face saying "You fool. Why did you work so hard and wait so long to come here legally when it was so easy to just hop a fence?"

Make it difficult for them to find housing. Make it difficult for them to find work. Make it difficult for them to receive social services. All the things that make jumping the border seem like a good idea... take it all away. What happens then? They stop coming. They realize, if they want to survive here, they need to be here legally. Otherwise, you're right... they would be homeless. Homeless and despised in the US, or have have a home at home?... which is the logical conclusion?

Adding Mexico as a state would bankrupt our social services. The illegals are already doing a good job of making that a reality. What do you think would happen when you add another hundred million citizens to that roster? Remember, Mexico is a third world country. If you travel outside any big city you will find suburbs... of shacks. Homes built out of trash. Have you ever even been to Mexico?

The illegal immigrant motivation is "Go to the US. They'll take care of you for free. Have a few kids... you'll get more money and they won't be able to make you leave!" Just check out the guides on how to survive here.

The vast majority of the Mexican population is desperate. Desperate for food, for shelter, and for money. That's why they come here illegally. I don't know enough about other Central American countries to voice an opinion on illegals coming from there, but it seems reasonable to assume the conditions are similar.

But, the fact is, it is not our problem. When faced with such desperate times, what did we do? We overthrew our government and established a new one. We didn't beg for handouts from the rest of the world. We took our fate into our own hands. If we should be helping them do anything, it should be this. We shouldn't try to solve all their problems for them. We should help them solve them on their own. NAFTA is actually doing this, by providing them jobs in their own country. We must continue this line of thinking... not just "Oh well let's just make them a state of the union so they can all get in line at the welfare office."

WOW...people need to get out of there boxes i mean DAM. They are people just like me and you. WE ARE FREAKING HUMAN beings dam get that through your head and we as humans should be able to live together in peace. And we need to be focusing on more important issues like, lets see the fact that the american gov't is corrupt and the world is being ran by a group of people. Servey the world, is this the work of LOVE and PEACE, i hope you said no. RACE RELIGION and other things were created to divide us, "DIVIDE AND CONQUER" ...sounds familiar? if not look it up.

What the world need is LOVE PEACE AND JUSTICE.

Love You All .....
Peace.....
Diego R.

There are ways of fixing our social servies issues. Making Mexico into a state will open up a wide variety of investment opportunities. The revenue our government will make on fines by forcing existing businesses into code will instantly add a temproary huge boost to our budget. After all what choice do they have? Either go up to code, or you lose your business and the employees will lose their jobs. Not to mention losing your market to the competitor. All we have to do is like seriously make a social services overhaul for our entire nation. AND WE CAN ADD JOBS IN THE PROCESS.

America can do ANYTHING! If we can conquer two sovereign nations and install puppet government, than surely we can convince a third world nation whos citizens risk life and limb to come here, to join the union and reap the benefits of our society at home. All we have to do here is fix the social services thing. # man why stop with Mexico I say?! Once Castro crokes we may even be able to convince them as well.

Adding states peacefully can float our nations economy a lot better than war with countries on the other side of the globe. Think about how much of that countries buildings will have to be demolished and rebuilt just to come up to code? Man the taxes from that # will be an awesome addition to our economy. Who would not love being able to travel to Cancun within our own country

Yea man I think planning for adding another state peacefully through popular support could bring quite alot for America, and the continent as a whole.

Like you said though, we just have to fix our social services issues to root out the leeches.

I dont think anyone here realize how difficult the united states immigration laws make for 'unskilled' workers to come here legally with a workers visa.

Ill tell you because i been through it....You need to be educated or have a major achievement....You need to have a job secured for you in the US already. i mean the list is long and some of this is not required but if you dont have them...well...GOOD LUCK because you would most likely fail to get ANY visa.

You guys should really read the Immigration bill presented to congress on may, i personnaly think i can really help the situation.... the worker program (which allows unskilled workers to temporarly work in the us, and if they want to become a citizen, well get in line) and amnesty for those who qualify would solve the issue.

How funny is it that illegal immigrants complain about their rights being ignored. Sorry Pedro americans have right and you amigo are not a american just cuz you were able to jump the fence. Laws are in place to protect us in some cases. And illegal immigrants think they are having their rights taken away. Guess what you are not a legal citizen here therefor the rights that I have you do not. Hell your country sucks and yes it's unfair there and poor. Well gather up people and protest till your country changes. That's what americans do. People should not fear their government, the government should fear the people. No longer is that true anywhere. They come here to find a life knowing they are here illegally and that they will be deported if found. You know the chances so how are you or anyone going to complain when it happens. For a lack of a better would some people are retarded. And Puerto Rico, (silently laughs) we own you.
Right now I know personally 5 illegal immigrants. And they work and all but hey too bad. If my car breaks down I fix it I don't go and steal my neighbors cuz mine doesn't work.

Originally posted by apc
That doesn't sound right. If the charges were dropped, the only thing that should be on her record is the arrest. Arrests are not visible on background checks. Only law enforcement has access to that information.

Being that her arrest was for providing alcohol to a minor, a conviction isn't necessary to prevent her clearance. This was one of those BS "have to protect the children" laws passed after the Columbine shootings. Funny thing is that once certified it takes a felony arrest and conviction to revoke certification.

Ahh, gotcha.

Originally posted by DYepes
Adding states peacefully can float our nations economy a lot better than war with countries on the other side of the globe. Think about how much of that countries buildings will have to be demolished and rebuilt just to come up to code? Man the taxes from that # will be an awesome addition to our economy. Who would not love being able to travel to Cancun within our own country

Cancun blows. You really have never been to Mexico, have you? Just watched MTV Spring Break too many times?

... and who's going to pay for all this rebuilding? Who would agree to it?! The companies wouldn't bring themselves up to code... they would just move farther South.

And you're basically agreeing that you want to invite them all to our welfare offices? We just need to make our social services better in order to support them? ...

Talk about giving up and going completely backwards.

The whole point of making it difficult for illegals to get housing is because they are criminals and are taking advantage of loopholes in our laws. And you want to reward them? You want to pay their rent for them?? How would you pay for this? A special tax JUST for the state of Mexico? Or would you tax everyone else? Sounds like you want to tax everyone else, since you want to overhaul the social services to meet their needs.

I love the bit about conquering other countries... and you want to annex this one. That's great.

Directly from the Consititution of the United States;

nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws...

That is unequivocal.....citizen, immigrant, illegal immigrant, whatever, all are afforded the same protections and rights outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

If you deny that, you do not understand the concepts framing this country and you are a biased, prejudiced person.

Originally posted by MrPenny
Directly from the Consititution of the United States;

nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws...

That is unequivocal.....citizen, immigrant, illegal immigrant, whatever, all are afforded the same protections and rights outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

If you deny that, you do not understand the concepts framing this country and you are a biased, prejudiced person.

Nice try:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Next time I recommend pasting the ENTIRE contents of the amendment and not twisting it to suit your own biased needs. If your interpretation of this amendment were accurate don't you think that these leeches would have already used it to further their continuing rape and pillage of this country?

These people are criminals plain and simple. 70% of American citizens want them on the next train to Tijuana and our 'leaders' won't do anything about it. I read yesterday that there will be no immigration bill this year because they are all too scared to act in an election year. This country is lost and we deserve the fate that surely awaits us.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
How am I, a landlord, supposed to verify the immigration status of my tenants? I have no authority to investigate their immigration status, under current federal law, right?

When he says his name is Hayden McKellen, but he is five feet tall, roofs houses, and answers to the name "El Gordo", you will know.

Originally posted by Escrotumus
Next time I recommend pasting the ENTIRE contents of the amendment and not twisting it to suit your own biased needs. If your interpretation of this amendment were accurate don't you think that these leeches would have already used it to further their continuing rape and pillage of this country?

Nice try. Thank you, but the section in its entirety does nothing to alter the meaning of the snippet I posted. No 'twisting' is necessary. It is still unequivocal.

If my attitude that every man, woman, and child is subject to, and enjoys the rights and protections afforded by this country's governing documents can be described as 'biased', within the same paragraph in which they are described as 'leeches'....God help you.

Nice try. Thank you, but the section in its entirety does nothing to alter the meaning of the snippet I posted. No 'twisting' is necessary. It is still unequivocal.

Unequivocal in your own twisted, alternate reality viewpoint. Here in the 3rd dimension in the US, that passage is accurately described as providing rights to citizens of the United States. There is no play on words and it is not open for further clarification. I'm sure the point has been argued by the finest legal minds in the country for years and it still stands.

If my attitude that every man, woman, and child is subject to, and enjoys the rights and protections afforded by this country's governing documents can be described as 'biased', within the same paragraph in which they are described as 'leeches'....God help you.

God help us all!

Originally posted by Escrotumus
Here in the 3rd dimension in the US, that passage is accurately described as providing rights to citizens of the United States. There is no play on words and it is not open for further clarification.

Your absolutely right. Nor does it exclude any specific rights from any specific group. That is the importance of the section, the language that states no person can have their life, liberty, or property deprived by any state, or that any person can be denied equal protection of the law.

You appear to understand that there is no "play on words" here, yet you seem to be reading a farcicial screenplay instead of the solemn text I'm reading.

I am utterly confident that my interpretation is the correct one, mostly in that it recognizes human dignity and rights. Where I find your interpretation to be sordid, biased, and shameful.

The idea that illegal immigrants are somehow causing us, citizens, some kind of hardship is ludicrous. The huge grocery stores, often three or four next door to each other, are some kind of illusion I suppose. And the electronics stores with the 50" televisions and smart refrigerators are simply to impress the visitors I guess. How about the SUVs and trucks whizzing down the interstate at 80 mph while the driver whines to his wife on the hands free cell phone camera about the high price of gas?

"70% of Americans want the illegal immigrants shipped back"......stow it. That just means 70% of Americans are completely willing to follow along with what they think the neighbors think. Look at what's popular on television and music. Damning evidence that many people in this country are braindead sheep willing to be lead around by whatever 'issue' the PTB cares to focus on today.

Staggering numbers of people around the globe are at risk from dirty water, dirty food, dirty homes, dirty hospitals, no hospitals, no food, no homes, yet the well-fed indignant jump up and down in this country about how we're being shat on by illegal immigrants. That is shameful.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

---

What does this mean?

Illegals are breaking the law... hence the name. Justice must be served. They have a right to a fair and speedy trial. They have a right to a lawyer. And they have the right to go back home.

Originally posted by apc
Justice must be served. They have a right to a fair and speedy trial. They have a right to a lawyer.

Precisely! Exactly the same rights we have as citizens.

Originally posted by apc
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

What does this mean?

The clause defines which people are in its jurisdiction: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States." Therefore, illegal immigrants fall outside that jurisdiction. And the subsequent wording just reinforces rights for CITIZENS. Not for illegals.

There is no specific law prohibiting the right of states to take action against illegal aliens. And since there is no specific wording in the Constitution for the federal government to handle illegal immigration either, theoretically the issue then becomes one of the powers allocated to the people/states, and not to the federal government.

This will probably be an issue which will end up, erroneously, in the Supreme Court.

Your absolutely right. Nor does it exclude any specific rights from any specific group. That is the importance of the section, the language that states no person can have their life, liberty, or property deprived by any state, or that any person can be denied equal protection of the law.

Now if that aint a play on words then I don't know what is. There are many things in life that aren't 'specifically' laid out for you, but it is common knowledge that you aren't allowed to do them. I'll try using that excuse the next time I am pulled over for speeding. I'm sorry officer, but it doesn't 'specifically' say that in your rulebook...

The fact that illegals are excluded can easily be determined by reading the passage directly before the only part that you seem to be interested in to further your own cause. Citizens and legal aliens ARE subject to the jurisdiction of the US, illegals are not, hence that pesky little word in bold illegal. Ill state it for you again:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...

You appear to understand that there is no "play on words" here, yet you seem to be reading a farcicial screenplay instead of the solemn text I'm reading.

I am utterly confident that my interpretation is the correct one, mostly in that it recognizes human dignity and rights. Where I find your interpretation to be sordid, biased, and shameful.

The screenplay I am reading is the one written by the founding fathers of this great country. I am glad that you think your interpretation is correct, but the founding fathers, legal experts, and the majority of your countrymen do not share your opinion.

The idea that illegal immigrants are somehow causing us, citizens, some kind of hardship is ludicrous. The huge grocery stores, often three or four next door to each other, are some kind of illusion I suppose. And the electronics stores with the 50" televisions and smart refrigerators are simply to impress the visitors I guess. How about the SUVs and trucks whizzing down the interstate at 80 mph while the driver whines to his wife on the hands free cell phone camera about the high price of gas?

I'm sure all those problems in California, Arizona, New Mexico, etc, etc are all figments of our imagination. I'm glad we have you to bring us back to reality. Do some research before you make hysterical claims that all the problems created by illegal immigration are hogwash. In fact, here where I live MS-13 crimes have increased DRAMATICALLY since the invasion started in earnest in the late 90's, but I guess that is a figment of my imagination too. Thank God I have you to ground me back to reality.

"70% of Americans want the illegal immigrants shipped back"......stow it. That just means 70% of Americans are completely willing to follow along with what they think the neighbors think. Look at what's popular on television and music. Damning evidence that many people in this country are braindead sheep willing to be lead around by whatever 'issue' the PTB cares to focus on today.

I don't see what any of that has to do with illegal immigration and the real problems that it creates. All social issues and moot points to this topic.

Staggering numbers of people around the globe are at risk from dirty water, dirty food, dirty homes, dirty hospitals, no hospitals, no food, no homes, yet the well-fed indignant jump up and down in this country about how we're being shat on by illegal immigrants. That is shameful.

I agree that the world is a terrible place. Unfortunately we can't save them all. In fact there is a good percentage that don't want to be saved. They want to be given a handout. I'll admit that many of the illegals are very hard-working, decent folk, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are here illegally and broke the laws of this great country. I'll also be the first to admit that many of them are bad apples and ruin it for the rest of them. Until you can come up with a plan that weeds these bad apples out from the good ones then my opinion is that they all must go. Once they are gone then I welcome them back with open arms once they enter the legal and honorable way.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

There is a period at the end. That clause only states what defines an American citizen, not that American citizens are the only one entitled to these rights.

Anyways apc, I seem to be not posting properly, so allow me to clarify my belief. I do not believe our social servies need to be repaired so that we may give the state of Mexico a free ride, I mean it needs to be repaired so that it may not function to serve leeches and bums who would simply use it so they do not have to work so that we may add Mexico as a state without the burden of simply addin hundreds of millions of welfare citizens.

Private companies pay for everything its called enterprise. Old buildings will be shut down by the local government if not brought up to code. A private company then buys the property, either demolish it and build anew (the more likely option), or simply bring it up to code. It is the same exact thing cities do when they revitalize a run-down area of town.

Private companies go in, they build their business, they hire people (the newly privelaged Mexican citizens) they smear every square inch of surface area with marketing to promote said goods and services. You act like every single citizen of Mexico is unemployed or does not own a business.

It just that their government is far too corrupted it does not properly regulate and maintain urban growth. They allow too much cheap housing which only fuels the fire of uncontrolled population growth without zoning enough for modern businesses to open. We go in and do things the good ol American way, we can fix that country right up man. And then we have that much less border to protect, that much more income tax, property tax, sales tax, business licenses, traffic penalites to our coffers. That in turn will go towards actually helping modernize and develop this new state. Do you think Florida and California just sprang up the way they are today out of nowhere?

Making them a state will also give us the ability to squash that rediculous Aztlan group once and for all and no more worries about reuniting the homeland BS.