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Hispanic Activists Sue Over Illegal Immigrant Crackdown in Pa.

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posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by apc
Reasonable effort is probably the foundation for any action against property management. Just as how a liquor store operator is expected to at the very least have a basic knowledge of what identification should look like, they are not held responsible if some kid uses a very good fake ID to buy beer. If it is obviously fake, then they are.

I dont recall exactly where off hand, but there is an independent website as well as a link somewhere on the INS page where an employer can run a quick check on a social. The same could easily be used by landlords prior to drawing up a lease. This alone should sufficiently release them from any liability should contrary facts come to light in the future, as it is a reasonable amount of effort to verify status. But, if in the future the landlord ignored those new facts, they should then be responsible for a violation.


Reasonable effort doesn't mean squat these days. I've seen people lose rental properties that they own as well as their own houses under the drug forfieture laws. The rent that they were paid was deemed drug proceedes from the dealers living in their rentals. This led to their own homes being siezed because they paid for them with money made from thier rentals. Anybody here buy a house in Florida reciently? Most banks require that you have a house certified drug residue free as part of the financing process.

I know a woman who can't get a teaching certificate because she can't pass the background check. Why can't she pass the background check? She worked for a bar and sold liquor to a minor, who had falsified his birth certificate and had a VALID (at the time) State Driver's License. The charges were dropped but the fact that she was charged is enough to fail the check.

I almost choked over using the INS website to check a SSN. If the INS was allowed to do its job we wouldn't need laws like the ones that we are discussing. Once people start getting turned down for housing and the reason becomes known, how long to you suppose that site will be up?




posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:04 PM
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They're fighting the problem at the wrong end. They should enforce immigration on wage earnings and not spending. Does Best-Buy check for legal status on every CD purchase? What about restaurants? "Okay you two, I need to see proof residency before I can show you a menu." It's just nonsense to attack problems in this manner.

It's much easier to check this on the wage earning side. Employers are required to submit SSN on W2s already. Then the IRS can see that new employee John Smith is also currently working in a different state or holding down another full time 9 - 5 job. The obvious conclusion is that one of the two employers has an illegal working there.


apc

posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
I know a woman who can't get a teaching certificate because she can't pass the background check. Why can't she pass the background check? She worked for a bar and sold liquor to a minor, who had falsified his birth certificate and had a VALID (at the time) State Driver's License. The charges were dropped but the fact that she was charged is enough to fail the check.

That doesn't sound right. If the charges were dropped, the only thing that should be on her record is the arrest. Arrests are not visible on background checks. Only law enforcement has access to that information.



I almost choked over using the INS website to check a SSN. If the INS was allowed to do its job we wouldn't need laws like the ones that we are discussing. Once people start getting turned down for housing and the reason becomes known, how long to you suppose that site will be up?

If... If... If...

I realized something I wanted to clarify in my argument... I'm not saying credit checks should be required. It would simply be protection... insurance against action if a tenant were found to be illegal.

[edit on 16-8-2006 by apc]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Oh sure APc, ALL illegals create dumps wherever they go. Have you checked your local whitebred trailer park? How about your average housing projects or low income neighboorhood? Sorry buddy, but your generalization on illegals does not fly. Where you see a dump by illegals, it is simply the work of bad mannered people, and has nothing to do with their national status, nor their race. They may indeed be illegal, but that by no means states that every single illegal is here to skip out on rent and trash their surroundings.

You do not even realize how many illegal immigrants live around you, because they are the ones who are not seen. Most of them in fact get decent jobs, take good care of their home and family, and are very well mannered and respectful.

for every one example of bad manners you see illegals display, you can take a trip around your city and witness five or more by your own citizens.

Bad manneres has nothing to do with national status, race, ethnicity, or anything else except BAD MANNERS. Please reevaluate your generalized thinking accordingly.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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I think the law that Hazelton enacted is a good law. It will make it hard(er) for illegal immigrants to find housing and jobs, which may force them into becoming legal immigrants.

What's wrong with that!

The only problem I see is that there should be a system set up where landlords and employers can go on the internet to somehow check on the status of the person in question.

We have to start somewhere (and somehow) to stop the influx of illegal immigrants coming into this country, and this seems like a good way to get some sort of systems in place to help at the local levels.

[edit on 16/8/06 by Keyhole]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by R3KR
To be covered under the laws of the united states, dont you have to "be" a member of the united states ?


No.

just in the jurisdiction of the U.S.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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There is a very strong probability that this law will be struck down by the courts.


According to legal experts, who had studied the Hazleton ordinance, it may be struck down by a court as it tended to create a new immigration regulatory regime independent from the federal system. A 1976 supreme court ruling says regulation of immigration is "unquestionably exclusively a federal power."


wwlia.org





mod edit, link

[edit on 16-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
How am I, a landlord, supposed to verify the immigration status of my tenants? I have no authority to investigate their immigration status, under current federal law, right? I have to contract that out, at my own expense. They give me a SS#, what can I do with that besides make sure it has the requisite number of digits?


Just do a Google search on Social Security Verification and you will see a ton of companies that will do SS# checks for $20 - $30 for a lifetime membership. $30 one time fee vs $1,000 fine for each illegal rented to, sounds like a no brainer solution.


apc

posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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DYepes: thanks for your little emotional rant in defense of your illegal friends without even bothering to touch on the thread topic. And thanks for playing the race card... really drove it home.

Here's the employer social security verification site...

www.ssa.gov...

Also most states have their own independent online verification.

Im not sure how applicable the SSA site would be to property managers, but there are tons of alternatives that accomplish the same goal.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We are talking about "ILLEGALS" they have no rights in the US.

Capture all of the illegals and dump them over the boarder into Mexico which they came from.

Furthermore, Anyone who rents to them should go to jail-the property owner/operator.

Anyone hiring Illegals, should go to jail and their illegal workers sent back home-to Mexico.

These stupid "illegal rights groups" are lame. For "legal" immigrants-fine-help and support them all you want with YOUR money/time and effort-not my tax dollars

Again, Illegals have no rights and if they don't like it GO HOME!!!!!!!!!



i being a legal immigrant citizen agree with you. but those arent your tax dollars only there mine too and you send your kids to school, use public services and collect social security with them, witch by the way does't bother me a bit.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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I was not protecting anyone, I was merely attempting to halt the spread of hateful generalized thinking being spewed from your mind, which is equal with ignorant prejudice.

I have no problem with verifying citizenship for employment. If you want to do that for housing though, if we are going to go that route, then we are going to have to include EVERY SINGLE human being in America, including whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, and middle easterners.

I mean APC I do not know whether or not you own a house or not, but if you were trying to rent an apartment you do not mind being verified as a citizen do you? I am simply asking a sincere question here.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark



According to legal experts, who had studied the Hazleton ordinance, it may be struck down by a court as it tended to create a new immigration regulatory regime independent from the federal system. A 1976 supreme court ruling says regulation of immigration is "unquestionably exclusively a federal power."




I don't think the Hazelton law is trying to regulate immigration, it is only trying to make it harder for illegal immigrants to live in the U.S. so that they will finally have to go to the immigration services, become a legal immigrant, and pay their fair share to live here.

[edit on 16/8/06 by Keyhole]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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I do believe that is considered regulating. I do not believe anyone will really care anyways. There will probably just be some "Public Announcement" across the illegal immigrant underground that says to stay away from this town and others with laws like at all costs.

Of course there is no such thing as the illegal immigrant underground network, I was just being silly. Illegals are not part of some huge organized group. They are individuals that went about the wrong way of achieving a better life, or people who got lost in the paperwork that were actually trying to do it legitamately. That is all.

To express hate for these people is horribly prejudiced because it is expressing hate for people who are simply uneducated on our customs and trying to get away from horrible life.

What should be done is when an illegal is found, they should be enrolled in a new kind of citizenship program, taught English, and then put on a probationary term until they have met the established requirements. If we would let them in at the border the right way, why should we not help them when we find them to become citizens.

[edit on 8/16/2006 by DYepes]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by R3KR
To be covered under the laws of the united states, dont you have to "be" a member of the united states ?



No.
just in the jurisdiction of the U.S.




Thanks.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Every one mentions the INS and the border partol. But there is a few things that most do not know and why it is left in the hands of the individual communities and states. The border patrol is not allowed to persue, shoot or do anything to stop illegale immigrants from coming into the country or if they leave. They are not allowed to persue or if fired on fire back, unless they get approval from their supervisor. The laws are so bogged down it is not hard to imagine why towns are enacting these laws. Let me ask you this, are you willing to live next to say a convicted killer or serial rapist? Or how about are you willing to let your children walk down the street, not knowing the neighbors or neighborhood? I would not. They are illegale as they did not go through the process to become citizens. I am not against any one who chooses to immigrate here but do it with in the confines of the law, not sneak in. The reasons for these process is to protect the country at large. I have heard of horror stories of what goes on from other countries, and then to escape the local law, they sneak in here. One of my bosses was born in Mexico and worked here in the US. He went through the channels to get here. As far as the landlord, every place where I have ever rented, as part of the rental agreement was a fee usually about 30 dollars. They did the checks and then if I put down a deposit, would have the appartment. I do know that one place I rented the land lords were not happy with the mexican nationals who would rent, not cause they did not pay the rent, but rather, it was them and their extended families. The police were there at that place more times than not, as well as, social services, seems as though 20 people in a 2 bedroom apartment is against basic health codes. In any case, the main problem is that Congress needs to take action Now.

Well that is my general thoughts.
Peace.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We are talking about "ILLEGALS" they have no rights in the US.

Capture all of the illegals and dump them over the boarder into Mexico which they came from.

Furthermore, Anyone who rents to them should go to jail-the property owner/operator.

Anyone hiring Illegals, should go to jail and their illegal workers sent back home-to Mexico.

These stupid "illegal rights groups" are lame. For "legal" immigrants-fine-help and support them all you want with YOUR money/time and effort-not my tax dollars

Again, Illegals have no rights and if they don't like it GO HOME!!!!!!!!!



Better watch it buddy. While I agree with you, there are lots and lots of people on this site that will call you a racist or a bigot because you choose to stand against illegals and stand for the rule of law. In my opinion, ANY ANY ANY landlord that rents to an illegal is breaking the law and should pay the price for it. Also, backround checks don't have to be paid by the landlord. All you have to do is make the backround check a condition by which eligibility is to be determined and charge the renter for the check. Its that simple!



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by solidsnake1331

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We are talking about "ILLEGALS" they have no rights in the US.

Capture all of the illegals and dump them over the boarder into Mexico which they came from.

Furthermore, Anyone who rents to them should go to jail-the property owner/operator.

Anyone hiring Illegals, should go to jail and their illegal workers sent back home-to Mexico.

These stupid "illegal rights groups" are lame. For "legal" immigrants-fine-help and support them all you want with YOUR money/time and effort-not my tax dollars

Again, Illegals have no rights and if they don't like it GO HOME!!!!!!!!!



i being a legal immigrant citizen agree with you. but those arent your tax dollars only there mine too and you send your kids to school, use public services and collect social security with them, witch by the way does't bother me a bit.


Yeah so....what's your point?

You're both LEGAL citizens.

The problem is the leeches streaming across the boarder sponging up my (and your) tax dollars. If they don't come here legally the should get nothing and have nowhere to go.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
In fact, I would think that people using fake I.D. would be considered possible terrorists.


so the highschool kid having a party down the street should be arrested on terrorism charges because he used a fake id to buy a keg?

we need to stop with the terrorism crap
there is no reason to fear terrorism just as there is no reason to fear lightning
you take precautions and if you hear thunder get inside, but you don't run for cover every time you see a cloud!

right now there is a very tense fog of suspicion of everyone
a guy gets pulled over and the first thing people think is "wonder if hes a terrorist"
people all over are being brought up on terrorist charges for no reason other than suspicion, no evidence, no rational, only pure witch hunting suspicion


as for illegal immagrants, yes i agree they need to be dealt with, however preventing them from getting shelter will only increase the homeless population and crime rates if they can't get jobs
they risked their lives to get here, i doubt they'll go back peacefully


apc

posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 06:05 PM
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DYepes: I said defend, not protect. And all of your inquiries to me would be answered if you would take the time to read my previous posts.

The SSA link was not directed at you, but towards the discussion about verifying the citizenship of prospective rental tenants.

And again, if you had read my previous posts you would see that no... I do not mind having my citizenship verified. I pay for it infact.. It pleases me, because I know that other tenants must also have their citizenship (and identity) verified via credit check. There are of course ways to circumvent this (as was also discussed in my previous posts...), as no system is perfect, but it can help minimize the issue.

>
and WHY do you keep throwing race into this? It's always the ones crying racism that make this a racial issue. Why is that...........?

[edit on 16-8-2006 by apc]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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the only solution to this problem and the most probable to happen ( especially if those politicians want to get the hispanic votes) is the legalization of illegal immigrants. it is the governments fault for not adequatley securing the border. how do you have hundreds of miles literally open and unguarded while theres a third world country on the other side? what genius thought this is enough protection and security for the U.S?
if this law is legal then it will be adopted but thats just one small town, the real power to solve this problem lies in the federal government. illegal immigrants are not going anywhere if anything more will come in. get mad at your representative in congress or your senator for their neglect on this issue.




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