posted by StellarX
Maybe in the 40's and 50's (even though they got the first nuke test date wrong by half a decade) and even 60's but after that we little other than
underestimation and lies to 'substantiate' it. Considering how well penetrated both organizations were in those earlier times it's no surprise that
they overestimated the capabilities as per request of their subjects/masters in Moscow . . “ [Edited by Don W]
1) My 1940s-1950s memory is that the US Gov’t constantly reminded us taxpaying citizens of the large size of the Red Army, its proximity to West
Germany and points westward, and how fast the Russian - Soviet - armor could “roll” across Germany and into France. This was done in part to
justify the deployment of our 280 mm M65 Long Tom cannon capable of firing off the newest and smallest of nuclear bombs. Tactical instead of
strategic. Nuke’em on the battlefield. We even had a brief episode of the “safe” a-bomb, a so-called “neutron” bomb. Touted as a killer of
men but a non-destroyer of property. No more Dresden or Berlin.
2) The US never infiltrated the USSR like the reverse. More Russians speak English than Americans speak Russian. Besides, the Cyrillic alphabet has
too many letters. Unless we have kept it a secret the highest US official to be accused of cross-dressing in red, was an Assistant Secretary of State
for Finance, Alger Hiss. He was “outed” by Whitaker Chambers, a Time magazine wrier who came in from the cold and confessed the errors of his
youth. In the process he named Hiss as one of his contacts. Hiss was involved in the Breton Woods conference out of which came the IMF and World
Bank. Hiss would not have been privy to much military or planning intel to forward to the NKVD, MVD or KGB as the case may have been. Because Hiss
was a blueblood liberal, and Chambers was a pudgy man who was a turncoat, it was hard for me to believe him while Hiss kept up his denial until he
died. FOIA revelations proved Chambers was telling the truth at least as it related to Hiss.
The USSR were hardly involved around the world and if anywhere then only as allowed by the US. The US spent most of the cold war destroying
independence and general nationalist movements around the world that had little if anything to do with 'communist' even if the USSR were never
communist to start with.
1) You have described the outcome of US anti-communist activity correctly, but in defense of my government, I do not believe such an ulterior motive
was at the root of their actions. It was fortuitious. It is easier to control a dictat Hey, America was new to the intimacies - or intricacies - of
geopolitics. We had studiously avoided Europe and European colonies until 1941. We knew very few of the players and even less about the game. Our
WW2 OSS - Office of Strategic Services - was formed out of FDR’s Oval Office and manned by “Wild Bill” Donovan’s Ivy League classmates. Yes,
we had MI, too, but none of it was coordinated. You’ve seen the movie “Midway” I suppose.
It was not until 1947 that the CIA was formed. Even today, in 2007, we still have complaints that there is little or no cross-agency communications.
The publicly released number of clandestine ops is 16. But I’d guess there is at lest 1 more, maybe more than 1, that are carried “off books.”
2) We were gullible. We were easily importuned. We were confused, and we were proud, because we knew we - the United States - had produced 90% of the
materials that won War 2 for the good guys. And we had not reached 100% of capacity! Europe lay in ruins, Japan was destroyed and the rest of the
world was properly labeled as 3rd world. British Commonwealth nations other than India and Ceylon excepted.
We had almost all the money, everybody owed us money and we had well over 75% of the world’s manufacturing capacity. We did not have to learn
Arabic, nor Chinese, nor Russian. We had what they wanted and they would have to learn American English. A golden opportunity missed? Yes, but
isn’t that always the case, looking back?
But the Russians were wily. From a position of great weakness, the USSR parlayed our ignorance and our love of and devotion to technology into a
rather successful Cold War from 1946 to 1991. Nearly a half century before the USSR’s bubble burst. But when it did, we found out it was hollow.
"There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fund-raising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of
national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself." Senator Inouye (D-HI) at the Iran Contra Hearings
Hyperbole! Posturing. It’s all true, but we’re talking about Nicaragua, and we had maybe 200 CIA operatives, 300-400 Special Forces types, 10 or
15 planes and choppers and a hall dozen high speed patrol boats not over 40 feet in length. The Democratically controlled Congress had 3 times added
language to appropriations bills prohibiting American involvement in Nicaragua. Bush41 then VP but as former head of the CIA, and a gung-ho Marine
orchestrated an attempt to prevent the popular Daniel Ortega from gaining control of the country. Which, as you know, he was recently elected to be
president. Bush41 had to pardon Casper Weinberg in 1882 to prevent Casper from “dropping” him - B41 - into the wilful violations of law in the I-C
Affair. Talk about CYA!
[In Re No bid defense contracts] And all done with wealth that they US no longer has . . With the rest of your post I can't argue much if at all.
Keep up the good work. Stellar
I hate deficit spending because it is 1), an unnecessary generational shift of expenditures to our grand-children and 2), it is a socio-economic
shift of tax burden from the rich to the poor. That personal view aside, the US has a $12 t. annual economy, and a total worth of around $60 t. Our
national debt of $8 t. is not a cause for great concern except as I mentioned above.
How much debt can the US sustain? I would suggest twice the current amount, but the real indicator is the interest rate on US 10 year and 20 year
bonds. That rate (cost of money) is set by people who are much smarter than I, and who have access to more info than we’d ever guess. That rate is
currently in the high 4's and that is good for us. As our credit-worthiness declines, the interest rate will rise. When the rate rises to 6%, it is
time for dramatic reforms. A national epiphany on high finance. I was surprised to hear the other day that the US manufacturing sector at $1.9 t. was
still the largest in the world.
Effectively subduing 'large portions of Iraq' it can not be as it's still employing aircraft to bomb wedding parties. Fact is you are not
'effectively' doing anything (beside perpetrating a slow and gradual genocide) when your actions have led to the deaths of 600 000 or more out of a
population of 22 million.
As I said before the US is trying about as hard as the RF to 'subdue' the local populations and it is in my mind quite obvious that these are
efforts designed to fall short of what would be required for a occupation that does not involved the deaths and serious injury to hundreds of American
servicemen per month. Stellar
Look at it like this. Bush43 is a primo Neo Con. New Conservative. A line promulgated by the Kristol’s in the 1980s. I call it quasi-fascist but
then who am I? Neo Cons believe the US is “endowed by the Creator” to rule the world. They further believe that there is a 20 year window of
opportunity to re-format the world according to the image the United States wants. That runs roughly from 1991 to 2011.
Because of the US’s ever rising and politically uncontrollable dependence on petroleum, it is essential (to any great power) that its sources be
under its hegemony. Further, in any contest between the PRC and the US, it is advantageous to have our finger on not only supply, but on the price of
crude oil and natural gas. The guy with the largest stockpile can set the price the others must follow. See our own J.D. Rockefeller. If you cannot
achieve hegemony, then chaos and turmoil is next best.
The Nine Eleven Event was pure serendipity for the Neo Con government of Bush43. War trumps economy. By “playing” the national security theme the
Neo Cons won the 2002 and 2004 elections. But by 2006 the public was growing weary and Bush43 had lied so much so often he lost credibility. Americans
have never been anti-war. We have always been adverse to losing a war. If we can’t win, we quit. Morality has no place in our thinking. We admit to
killing 1,000,000 Vietnam in our 10 years of involvement there; they say we killed 3,000,000. Do you see a national day of mourning for dead
Vietnamese? No, but you see endless invocation of the 59,000 dead Americans. As in Iraq, we have sustained 3,200 KIA but there is never a reference to
how many Iraqis have died to date. Do we care? Hey, we’re a Christian nation! When God’s on your side, you let the Devil take the hindmost!
We have failed in Iraq. We had no plan for post-May 1. Mission Accomplished Day. You can’t believe that, can you? But it’s true. Last night on CBS
60 Minutes, the last news program in America, Andy Rooney said the US Military has given 8,000 waivers to new recruits who had felony criminal
records, which before Iraq was a disqualifier for service. This is how ill-conceived the Gang of Four - Bush43, VP Cheney, Condo Rice and the
Oberfuhrer, Herr Rumsfeld - had thought this thing through. Bush43 may turn out to be right, when he “promised” last year that the US Armed Forces
would be in Iraq at least through January 20, 2009, his last day in office. He said then that it will be up to his successor when to leave Iraq. (I
believe the GOP is pushing him to shorten the time frame, fearing a grand debacle in 2008.)
Thx, S-X, for a good go.
[edit on 3/12/2007 by donwhite]
[edit on 3/12/2007 by donwhite]