Military Strength of Russia (and compared to other nations)

can women serve in a combat unit?

Can women join say the special operations groups?

Originally posted by devilwasp
can women serve in a combat unit?

Can women join say the special operations groups?

I think not they just dont fit the profile for such things. I have got a part of video training for the elite special forces and the things they do. It is absolutly crazy stuff where they actually say they program people.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Russian Boy]

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Russian Boy]

This whole Russia vs US thing is silly. The russians have stopped their expansionist program. The people there are very nice and hospitable. OK where would you rather do an student exchange program for a year. With some one from Russia or someone from Iran? I have ongoing internet relationships with several Russians and they are not different than you or I. This whole armed competition thing is rediculous. Everyone would be winners if we would focus on spending our money on joint space exploration rather than shooting our own neighbor in our backyard (being planet earth). Things change. Forget the past. Make a better future. Look how the world could view us right now? Invaded Afghanistan, took over their government, invaded Iraq, took down their governmental structure. Now tell me why a small third world country that isnt spoon fed the controlled media that we receive in this country wouldnt view us any different than the Soviets 25 years ago?

Just like a divorce, 2 sides to any story. These kind of threads are hateful, neanderthal and lack intelligent insight IMHO. People are people, and to cower to the leaderships whims by asking "who has a bigger gun" only serves the politcal interest of violent leaders.

Cheers and G'day .........Dango PS do a good deed for no reason at all ....it will make you feel better

posted by Dango

This Russia vs US thing is silly. Russians have stopped their expansionist program. The Russians are very nice and hospitable. I have ongoing internet relationships with several Russians and they are not different than you or I. OK where would you rather do an student exchange program for a year. With some one from Russia or someone from Iran? [Edited by Don W]

Iran. Actually, I had the pleasure of a young Iranian boy - 16 years old - coming to live in my house until he finished his first year in college. 4 years. His parents came to visit him once a year. He is now a US citizen, married to an Iranian girl, father of 3 children and his parents have Green cards. He is a professional person and lives on the West Coast. I’ve met 2 of his siblings and several of his uncles and aunts. I like Iranians. America did great harm to the Iranians. 1953. Gratuitously. Overthrow of Mosedegh. Trained the SAVAK. I live in an apartment house where 2 Russian women live. One is from Odessa and the other from Novosibirsk. Great people.

This whole armed competition thing is ridiculous. Everyone would be winners if we would focus on spending our money on joint space exploration rather than shooting our own neighbor in our backyard (being planet earth). Things change. Forget the past. Make a better future. Look how the world could view us right now? Invaded Afghanistan, took over their government, invaded Iraq, took down their governmental structure. Now tell me why a small third world country that isn’t spoon fed the controlled media that we receive in this country wouldn’t view us any different than the Soviets 25 years ago? People are people, and to cower to the leadership’s whims by asking "who has a bigger gun" only serves the political interest of violent leaders. Cheers and G'day . Dango
PS do a good deed for no reason at all . . it will make you feel better [Edited by Don W]

Amen! Bravo! Right On!

Originally posted by Dango
This whole Russia vs US thing is silly. The russians have stopped their expansionist program.

When, in your knowledge, last was it nearly as openly expansionist as it's rivals in the West?

The people there are very nice and hospitable.

And the people of American are absolute monsters to allow for their foreign policy to be as murderous and genocidal as it is?

OK where would you rather do an student exchange program for a year. With some one from Russia or someone from Iran? I have ongoing internet relationships with several Russians and they are not different than you or I.

Rather Russia and why do you think it's relevant that people all over the world , despite the best efforts of their governments and cultural 'leaders' tend to have the general same aspirations in life?

This whole armed competition thing is rediculous.

Agreed....

Everyone would be winners if we would focus on spending our money on joint space exploration rather than shooting our own neighbor in our backyard (being planet earth).

Well i believe that that there are in fact 'evil' ( not that i like the word but it's not the worse way to describe them ) people in this world who do play off one population against another and that those who can not defend themselves either politically or otherwise tends to fade into oblivion; the violence states still visit should serve as evidence that aggression is not going out of fashion at all....

Things change. Forget the past.

Things do not change if we do not keep the past in clear memory and perspective; if you look at how much time the true rulers of the world spends manipulating our perception of history it's clear that they consider it exceedingly important that we have a false image of it. Since they still manage the level of control they clearly do i think we should consider their ploys ( such as changing our perspective , or creating a distaste for it , of history ) quite effective.

Make a better future. Look how the world could view us right now? Invaded Afghanistan, took over their government, invaded Iraq, took down their governmental structure. Now tell me why a small third world country that isnt spoon fed the controlled media that we receive in this country wouldnt view us any different than the Soviets 25 years ago?

There is pretty convincing evidence that the then president of Afghanistan invited the Soviets in ( not the army but some security forces) so i don't think any comparison is in fact justified; America had not even a half valid excuse for the bombing of Afghanistan and the case for their Iraq policy is orders of magnitudes more illegal.

Just like a divorce, 2 sides to any story. These kind of threads are hateful, neanderthal and lack intelligent insight IMHO.

Your opinion has been noted. I found that there are normally at LEAST three sides to any story and the more people the more sides generally...

People are people, and to cower to the leaderships whims by asking "who has a bigger gun" only serves the politcal interest of violent leaders.

True; terror works and crime pays and frankly there is a great deal of room for improvement in so called human 'civilization'.

Cheers and G'day .........Dango

PS do a good deed for no reason at all ....it will make you feel better

I am a currently a ' fan' of self interest action as a force for good. It's when we start acting in the interest of the so called 'greater good' that things start going hopelessly, or at least mostly, wrong for 99.9% of those involved. Self interest action ( the average human being with average aspirations as historically shown) is almost always action with moderation and it's the actions of groups that tends to err on some extreme or another.

I will eventually create a thread to discuss me ideas on the last issue in the detail that might show up it's flaws...

Stellar

posted by StellarX

posted by Dango
This whole Russia vs US thing is silly. The Russians have stopped their expansionist program.

When was it last as nearly and openly expansionist as it's rivals in the West? [Edited by Don W]

Hitler and Stalin divided Poland in 1939. I recall there were minor border shifts between the USSR and Finland in 1941. In that same time frame, the Baltic states went under Soviet domination. Involuntarily. The USSR occupied northern Iran in 1941, but departed in 1946, begrudgingly. I am unaware of any other expansionist actions of the Soviets, discounting Sakhalin Island.

I do not regard the take-over of Eastern Europe as an expansionist act. If Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary, later joined by Czechoslovakia, had been under Red Army governance, then I would. But the Soviets dominated this area through its nationalist Communist Party surrogates. Which I see as different from a military occupation. Admittedly most of the people in those countries did not welcome the Communist’s repression, but OTOH, the pre-war capitalist governments were leaning to fascism or proto-fascism and were not notably democratic, either.

The case of Yugoslavia turned out to be very much different because of one man, Marshal Tito. Josef Broz. Albania was steadfast to Moscow, but then, what’s Albania worth anyway? Geopolitically speaking. I do not recall Albania ever being used by Moscow to “irritate” Yugoslavia which would have been logical.

The Soviet flirtations in Africa and especially with Egypt and Syria, once the UAR - United Arab Republic - were purely in response to local nationalist sentiment rebuffing Western capitalist dominance. See Suez Canal in 1956. Western jingoism says Egyptians were too dumb (not racially suited) to run a canal. America’s branch of that school of thought used that same argument against the turnover of the Panama Canal in 1999 by a treaty signed by President Carter in 1979. In your wildest dreams can you imagine Ronnie Reagan and Bush 41 even being willing to talk about that? Geez! We - the US - squandered all the good will that act had generated. Granada. Panama. Nicaragua. Etc.

The West OTOH, created today’s Middle East after the tumbling of the Ottoman Empire in 1918. All of those boundaries were drawn for the administrative convenience of the conquering powers, without regard for the inhabitants. As was also done later in Afghan and Pakistan. As was done earlier in all of Africa. As was done earlier in Indo China. And we poor dumb Americans go merrily off to war to die happily defending borders we think are as well established as the border between NY and PA. Geez! I grow so discouraged when I hear about “border” violations by people who have lived there 5,000 years before the Romans civilized Western Europe. Come Quick, Sweet Jesus.

By the bye, this same mentality is the root cause of the UN’s cheerful division of Palestine in 1948 into a Jewish and Arab state. It seemed right to the UN’s Big 5 that because Palestine was more or less “their’s” to divide as spoils of war left over from 1918, as the UN was held to be the legal successor of the League of Nations. What the world could probably have gotten away with in 1918 would not work in 1948, as we have learned the hard way after the fact. And are still learning albeit slowly. Aside: The division of GB’s Palestine Mandate violated one of FDR’s Four Freedoms proclaimed in 1941, the right of self determination pf all peoples. But when you are convinced you are doing good, it is not easy to foresee the bad you are doing. The creation of Israel in 1948 was white racism in reverse. Shamed by Germany's Holocaust, white Euro-types thought "giving" the surviving Jews a land to call their own was right, but unfortunately, it already belonged to the dark skinned camel-riding Arabs living there. What we thought was right at the time was in reality, dead wrong! Say hello Nine Eleven Event.

posted by StellarX
I believe there are 'evil' people in the world who play off one population against another. . those who cannot defend themselves either politically or otherwise tend to fade into oblivion; the violence nation states continue to visit on others should serve as evidence that aggression is not going out of fashion at all . . things do not change if we do not keep the past in clear memory and perspective; if you look at how much time the true rulers of the world spend manipulating our perception of history it's clear that they consider it exceedingly important that we have a false image of it. Because they still manage their high level of control I think their ploys such as creating a distaste for it, have been quite effective. [Edited by Don W]

Exactly! I’ve concluded that one way they - the R&Fs as I call’em - are now exercising control is to give us (peons) too much democracy! I heard yesterday there are 545,000 elective offices in the US. Example: in my home state of Ky we had a single person elected to run the county, along with 3 commissioners from equally populated defined geographical areas. Everyone got to vote for the county judge - CEO - and 1 commissioner. Hailed as progress, the city and county have merged, so we have 1 mayor and 25 councilmen, 22 selected from defined districts and 3 at-large. Where before the “reform” we could pinpoint responsibility it is now nearly impossible. Consider: the same county now has 23 elected lower court judges, 16 elected court of first impression judges and 2 appellate judges and 1 supreme court judge. How can any citizen know anything about any of those judges? State legislatures. School boards, library boards, and etc. Democracy run amok!

posted by StellarX
Your opinion [2 sides to each issue: by Dango] has been noted. I found that there are normally at LEAST three sides to any story and the more people the more sides generally . . terror works and crime pays and frankly there is a great deal of room for improvement in so called human 'civilization'.

I constantly remind my readers that no parent wants to give up his son to certain death, but that circumstances dictate that. When you consider the IDF is the best armed and maybe the best trained Armed Forces in the region. The IDF have legitimacy on their side - i.e., open training equipping etc - denied to their enemies who are left with very little to fight back with. As the Oberfuhrer Herr Rumsfeld said, “you fight with what you have, not with what you’d like to have.” It remains true, “One man’s hero is another man’s terrorist.” And so it has always been and it always shall be. Necessity drives us.

posted by StellarX
I am a 'fan' of self interest action as a force for good. It's when we start acting in the interest of the so called 'greater good' that things start going hopelessly or mostly wrong for 99.9% of those involved. Individual self- interest is almost always acted out with moderation; it's the actions of groups that tends to err in some extreme way or another. I will eventually create a thread to discuss me ideas on the last issue in the detail that might show up it's flaws . . Stellar [Bowdlerized by Don W]

I tend to think the wartime propaganda of Churchill and Roosevelt was “good” but the same wartime propaganda of Hitler and Tojo (and Stalin) was “bad.” Am I being myopic or is there a lot of truth in my judgment? Note: I do not “blame” the German people for Hitler and the Holocaust. Nor do I “blame” the Japanese people for Tojo and the eager complicity of Emperor Hirohito. So Mr S/X, how are you going to provide for assessing omnipresent propaganda?


[edit on 11/29/2006 by donwhite]

you know once you look at the last 50 years in American history, it's easy to see that the actual peopl who run this country's foreign and domestic policy are the R&F's if you would like in the PENTAGON. look at it, Kennedy: murdered due to his peacefull outlook, and his notions and goals of peace and ending the cold war. he argued against invading Cuba, and even argued getting out of Vietnam, imagine what would happen if he went on with his plans, the pentagon is not gonna get no money, in turn oil and weapons companies are gonna go to making sewing machines! the Cold war and vietnam could've ended in his presidency, but NOOOO Pentagon doesn't like it, so why not just kill him. there was a movie called "JFK" about this, and it showed the only investigation done about the murder of Kenndy, and it derives it's story from a true story. such as the "magic bullet" theory if you've ever heard of it. how exactly does a president get shot, and no public and open and huge investigation happen, how do such important papers about that murder not being opened to public until i think 2027!!!! this is complete BS, where the heck has democracy gone!!!

posted by INc2006

Once you look at the last 50 years in American history, it's easy to see that the actual people who run this country's foreign and domestic policy are the R&F's if you would like in the PENTAGON. [Edited by Don W]

As Washington warned the country of “foreign entanglements” in his departing speech, so also Eisenhower warned us in his final speech of the “military-industrial complex” which is today’s Pentagon.

Look at it, Kennedy: murdered due to his peaceful outlook, and his notions and goals of peace and ending the cold war. He argued against invading Cuba, and even argued getting out of Vietnam, imagine what would happen if he went on with his plans, the pentagon is not gonna get no money . .

I dunno, Mr I6. If the Bay of Pigs had been successful, I doubt JFK would have said, “Hey, we’re sorry, Fidel, you can have it back.” There is no doubt the BofP was purely a Dulles Brothers’ fiasco - John Foster as the Secretary of State and Allen W as the head of CIA - and due to our own serious ignorance and inexcusable indifference of the plight of the Cuban people. We listened to the R&F Cubans who abandoned their country. As for JFK and Vietnam. It is true Ike got us into Vietnam. I believe there were about 500 MAG - Military Advisory Group - in Vietnam in 1960. By the time JFK was assassinated, the number had grown to 2,000 and they had been authorized to initiate “defensive” actions. Whatever the heck that means. Double-speak for offensive. Whether JFK would have kept sliding down that slippery slope to the 550,000 men LBJ ended with, I don’t know. I guess the best you can say is “it is problematical.” I believe the recent interview with Robert McNamara would go against your thesis that JFK was an early “peace-nik.”

The Cold war and Vietnam could've ended in his presidency . .

I think the Cold War started in 1920 when the US, suffering its first Red scare - sent 20,000 soldiers to the USSR to overthrow the Red regime. After 18 months and no success backing the old nobility and pro Tsarists - called White Russians - the US and Great Britain who had joined us in the anti-socialist endeavor, departed. The Japanese had sent about 10,000 men into the Far East of the USSR, but they ultimately departed because there was nothing there to fight for.

At the end of War 2, after the West in the form of Germany along with soldiers from Italy, Romanian and France had invaded the Soviet Union and nearly conquered it, Stalin meant to provide a trip-wire defense ring around Mother Russia by dominating the East European states. The Berlin Blockade and Airlift , the Truman Doctrine to block Soviet expansion into Greece and maybe Turkey, coupled with the Churchill’s Iron Curtain speech at Fulton MO, all worked together to give us the Cold War. I’m saying all this to say the Cold War was bigger than JFK.

“ . . Pentagon doesn't like it, so why not just kill him. there was a movie called "JFK" about this, and it showed the only investigation done about the murder of Kennedy, and it derives it's story from a true story. such as the "magic bullet" theory if you've ever heard of it.

Look, who should I put more credence in, Chief Justice Earl Warren, Senator John Sherman Cooper, Senator Richard Russell, Congressman Hale Boggs, Congressman Gerald Ford, Former German High Commissioner John McCloy and former CIA Director, Allen W. Dulles. Or, Mark Lane, free lance agent provocateur who wrote “Rush to Judgment”? Mr. Lane is usually given credit to starting the conspiracy cottage industry surrounding the JFK assassination. Which thrives today. But which is bogus. IMO. Any conspiracy theory however unsupportable makes money, but debunking such theories does not sell. It's all about "bottom line."

Senator Arlen Specter was one of the investigators in the Warren Commission staff. I feel like I know Senator Specter. Would I believe him or would I believe Oliver Stone? Not even close, I’ll tell you. It's not even close.

“ . . how exactly does a president get shot, and no public and open and huge investigation happen, how do such important papers about that murder not being opened to public until I think 2027! this is complete BS, where the heck has democracy gone! [Edited by Don W]

I was an Airman (E3) at MacDill AFB on Monday, Nov. 18, when JFK and Jackie landed on their way to a political gathering at Tampa's Lopez Field, which marked the opening of the 1964 campaign in Florida. I waved to him and her as they rode by in the open limo. That Friday, on his way to a similar opening of the campaign in Texas, JFK was shot. We were devastated. Not since the death of FDR in 1945 had grown men cried in public. I was in a drug store in downtown Tampa on Sunday morning to buy out of town newspapers when the tv blared out that Oswald had been shot! What in the heck was going on in America? The surprise and dismay must have been close to that felt after the Lincoln assassination and plot on VP Johnson and Sec. Seward in 1865. America was coming apart and for what reason? Why?

But like every tragedy, the survivors eventually get over it even if we never forget it.

www.archives.gov...
www.history-matters.com...


[edit on 11/30/2006 by donwhite]

ok well you seem much more knowledgeable about JFKK and all than me. but how come there were no security guards and army officers in the crowd like usual? or how the car slowed down to only 10 miles per hour!? or that weird turn the car took?plus they say the shooter was in some building and that he made the shot, well if he did, i guess his shot should've came earlier right while the car was making the turn, which was the easiest shot he could've made, but not he waited until the car finished teh turn before he shot, the only explanations i can think of are if he hesistated, something was worng with his rifle(unlikely), or if there where other conspirers, and he was waiting until all can have a good shot, and then they all shoot. i do not like to base my info on a movie, but i guess that's all i have for now, maybe i should read more....

I suspect that JFK was a threat to the New World Order.

I suspect that JFK was a threat to the New World Order.

posted by INc2006

You much knowledge about JFK. But how come there were no security guards and Army officers in the crowd like usual? Or how the car slowed down to only 10 miles per hour!? Or that weird turn the car took? Plus they say the shooter was in some building and that he made the shot, well if he did, I guess his shot should've came earlier right while the car was making the turn, which was the easiest shot he could've made, but not he waited until the car finished the turn before he shot, the only explanations I can think of are if he hesitated, something was wrong with his rifle, or if there where other conspirers . . [Edited by Don W]

1) The Secret Service may have protested, but the President was on a campaign trip in a state he might lose in 1964, so he had to see and be seen. Plus Jackie was an invaluable asset to the Democrats and they wanted the crowds to see her, too. The country was naive and innocent.
2) I have been to Dealey Plaza. I stood where Zapuder stood. I walked up the grassy knoll. I viewed the railroad overpass. The Texas School Book Depository was not open then so I did not get to go to the 6th floor from which Oswald shot the president. Jack Ruby’s bar had been demolished. I have ridden the same route JFK took to Parkland Hospital.
3) Of course, without the Zapuder film we’d be enmeshed in endless controversy how it happened. Even with the film, the arguments go on now for 42 years and are not gong to end. Heck, good people still argue about John Wilkes Booth and Abraham Lincoln. Some say Booth broke his left leg when he jumped to the stage, but the man burned in the barn 10 days later had a broken right leg. I prefer to think someone made a mistake.
3) The KGB achieves indicated they had a very low regard for LHO’s intelligence and there was no indication they would have trusted him on the smallest assignment. Important assignments are not given to unproven people. Nuts do things smart people would never think to do. Just look at John Hinkley, who shot Ronald Reagan. Only luck kept him from killing the president. He was a mental case. No, LHO was a loner. He acted alone. Don’t make something hard when it is easy.

I have a theory about LHO. When he came back to the US, he was interviewed by the CIA. They found him as the KGB had in Moscow, not worth the trouble. They passed him along to the FBI. They have a different mission then the CIA, so even if he was a certifiable kook, they needed to keep an eye on him for a while to see if he was up to any mischief. To put him under surveillance would require 168 hours of manpower per week. 4 agents. Too much for too little.

Suppose instead you made him think he was important and you wanted him to be a spy for the FBI. Pay him $100 a month, as a “stringer” and you let him watch himself! Problem solved, money saved. Now, when it turned out LHO had killed the president, J Edgar Hoover - a publicity hound extra-ordinaire - could not let it out that LHO was a paid informant of the FBI. This is the only cover-up.

“ . . and he was waiting until all can have a good shot, and then they all shoot. I do not like to base my info on a movie, but I guess that's all I have for now, maybe I should read more . .

I obtained the Warren Commission Report from the GPO. I pre-ordered it. I have read it through at least 3 times, and referred to it more than 100 times. It is a very good read. I made the mistake of loaning it to a friend who failed to return it. I could buy another. I recommend you buy the book, or get it from a library or if you want, you can download it. When you get the book, look in the back for the list of the Commission’s staff. I believe there is a list of 22 assistants to the director. Most of them are either Phi Beta Kappa or the Order of the Coif - the Law School equal to the Phi Beta Kappa. Some are both. These are 22 of America’s best and brightest. There is a list of 18 or so investigators. Again, men and women of great experience and earned reputations.

Senator John Sherman Cooper, Republican, from Kentucky. My home state. He is the only Republican I have ever voted for. I voted for him 2 times when he ran for the US Senate. An honest country lawyer from the foothills of the Appalachians. I trust him. He would not lie to me. Or to America. Senator Arlen Specter was one of the assistants. He is an honorable man. Even if he is a Republican. Like Senator John Warner. And a few others. But I feel I “know” Senator Specter. I trust him. He would not lie to me. Or to America.

So do I “believe” in the magic bullet. You betcha!

Note: Chief Justice Earl Warren, Republican governor of California, was the leader of the Supreme Court that decided Brown v. Topeka. It was the most important case in American history in the 20th century. It ended Jim Crow. It was the last nail in the coffin of slavery. Congress was hamstrung and old not pass such laws as were sorely needed. The Executive Branch has no power to do that. It did what it could, under President Truman. But it was up to the Supreme Court to make America one country for all its people. Equal Justice Under Law. Warren did not want to take the Commission job but LBJ insisted. Neither man liked the other. But Warren took the job for the country’s sake. And he served us well!

So who is Oliver Stone anyway? Or Mark Lane? Or DA Jim Garrison? They are nobodies if you let me answer my own question.


[edit on 11/30/2006 by donwhite]

StellarX I agree with most of what you said

But.............


When you said
"And the people of American are absolute monsters to allow for their foreign policy to be as murderous and genocidal as it is?".....................

Well I am not a monster, not even on Halloween. So thanks for being sooooo nice. And logical. I think Russians are monsters for having Lenin, Stalin......., oh and Putin icing people with plutonium milk shakes in Ireland and England. If you want to be that way.


And you said


"There is pretty convincing evidence that the then president of Afghanistan invited the Soviets in ( not the army but some security forces) so i don't think any comparison is in fact justified; America had not even a half valid excuse for the bombing of Afghanistan and the case for their Iraq policy is orders of magnitudes more illegal.".........................................................................

Come on the old Soviet Union invaded Afganistan don't try to sugar coat your own country loser actions.

I think the USA had every right to invade Afganistan after 9/11. The taliban said screw you at handing over people that killed many Americans. The Taliban were harboring Al Qadea in the country, and if the taliban were not going to cooperate then they are an accessory to murder well they deserve to go down.

Now the Iraq war reasons are pure rubbish, just like your Russian/Afganistan invasion.

posted by sbob

StellarX I agree with most of what you said But....When you said "And the people of American are absolute monsters to allow for their foreign policy to be as murderous and genocidal as it is?"......Well I am not a monster, So thanks for being so nice. And logical. I think Russians are monsters for having Lenin, Stalin..., oh and Putin icing people with polonium milk shakes in Ireland and England. And you said "There is pretty convincing evidence that the then president of Afghanistan invited the Soviets in; America had not even a half valid excuse for the bombing of Afghan and the case for their Iraq policy is orders of magnitudes more illegal."

Come on the Soviet Union invaded Afghan don't try to sugar coat your own country loser actions. I think the USA had every right to invade Afghan after 9/11. The Taliban said screw you at handing over people that killed many Americans. The Taliban were harboring al Qaeda in the country, and if the Taliban were not going to cooperate then they are an accessory to murder well they deserve to go down. Now the Iraq war reasons are pure rubbish, just like your Russian Afghan invasion. [Edited by Don W]

Hello, Sbob, I think S/X is on leave, so with your permission, I’ll offer some of my observations to what you have posted.
1) You could argue the American voters were cheated in 2000, but you cannot make that argument after 2004. The US has endorsed by it vetoes in the UN and its silence otherwise, of the harsh and undeserved treatment infected on the Palestinians, especially in Gaza, and on Lebanese, in the south of Lebanon recently. You cannot honestly call the IDF attack on Lebanon - ostensibly on Hezbollah but of the 1000 killed, fewer than 50 were certifiable as Hezbollah - a campaign, it was a rampage.
2) Meanwhile where Buhs43 himself described the carnage in Darfur as a genocide, he does nothing but talk where the UN says over 100 children are killed or die every day. Every day. 100.
3) I am not aware S/X or I have defended the mass murders committed under the Soviet regime, most especially prior to 1941. OTOH, making revolution is akin to making an omelet, the parallel I need not describe further.
4) There is a great difference between the USSR intrusion into Afghan and the American intrusion. The legitimate government asked the Ruskies in.
The US on the other hand, sought no permission and opened combat operations without warning. Hey, it’s no big deal, it’s just there are norms of international conduct. There are ways to do thing legally, and ways to act illegally. The US under Bush43 seems to prefer the latter. This conduct does not reinforce the Rule of Law concept so essential for peace and good will between peoples.
5) More than 400,000 Americans were KIA in World War Two, the outcome of which resulted in the US and UK along with others, founding the United Nations and signing on to the Charter. Now the US under Bush43 ignores the UN Charter.

Q. Does that mean those 400,000 men died in vain? Only to join the 59,000 “expended” in Vietnam? Or the 3,000 KIA in Iraq? I dunno, Sbob, but these are my own opinions.

I didnot find time to read all the message mentioned above but can the pro americans Justify Attacking Iraq....they never can unless they are hypocrits....however I am sorry to tell that most of the americans i have ever interacted with are either hypocrits or Ignorant...they must realize the world is a bit greater than a country called USA a country ruled by a dictator who speaks out in pride" either you are with us or you are gainst us"

But don't you see what America does is meant only to spread Democracy- which is a key to happiness and prosperity. America liberates people from their governments, so it can let these people have democracy- at least what is left of these people after the bombing campaigns and the ensuing Civil War- but its all for a great cause.

What Russia and other evil regimes are doing, are restricting the spread of this democracy. And Americans can't allow that- because they care about the world so deeply. A viable alternative to democracy in Russia with Putin? That can't be- because democracy is the supreme truth. And who else to decide what exactly democracy is- that USA. If US says that Putin is not democratic- how dare you argue with it- it knows democracy better than anyone. If US says that Milosevich, or Kim Jong Ill are really bad people- you must take its word for it- or else you will be liberated as well.

And Americans are not hypocrits- they are just naturally predisposed to double standards. What America does is good, and that is a matter of fact. And thats just the way it is in the world with one super-power.

[sarcasm]

[edit on 1-12-2006 by maloy]

But don't you see what America does is meant only to spread Democracy- which is a key to happiness and prosperity. America liberates people from their governments, so it can let these people have democracy- at least what is left of these people after the bombing campaigns and the ensuing Civil War- but its all for a great cause.

That's hilarious! I love the Freudian slip about how America "liberates people from their governments", aka conquers those very people.

Democracy? Please. American government has traditionally supported the WORST dictators and mass murderers of the 20th century, with out giving a crap about democracy.

Do not confuse democracy with what is literally called "American interests", aka "liberation" of any given nation from its resources.

Civil War for the greater cause? That's ridiculous. Are you a anarchists or something? What you said is that death, murder, suffering and total chaos for the greater good.

Ridiculous.

What Russia and other evil regimes are doing, are restricting the spread of this democracy. And Americans can't allow that- because they care about the world so deeply.

I really hope it's some sort of twisted sarcasm, because if not, watch some "Shalom in the Home" or something.

A viable alternative to democracy in Russia with Putin? That can't be- because democracy is the supreme truth. And who else to decide what exactly democracy is- that USA. If US says that Putin is not democratic- how dare you argue with it- it knows democracy better than anyone. If US says that Milosevich, or Kim Jong Ill are really bad people- you must take its word for it- or else you will be liberated as well.

What the hell is that? I see that in your view America is supposed to dominate the world, and tell everybody else what to do and how to live. You call that democracy? Did you ditch all of your history classes or is it something worse?

Good God.

And Americans are not hypocrits- they are just naturally predisposed to double standards. What America does is good, and that is a matter of fact. And thats just the way it is in the world with one super-power.

Ok then, make sure to take your medication on time, because it sure looks like you missed a few doses.

On the other hand, why don't you move to America and try it on your own skin, and then tell us Americans how good our government is.

Russia vs US...

I was told a classic some time ago about how the US had aquired what seemed esseintially to be a new russian plane. Stripped it down and poked fun at it because of its electronics. It used valves instead of transistors (vacuum valves being the predecessor of the modern day transistor).

It wasn't until many moths later that some civilian engineer decided to tell the US military that they were total fools for taking the p*ss.

The reason the russians had chosen to use valves was to avoid the the effect of an EMP pulse after a nuclear bomb has been detonated. The russian planes would continue to fly where others would drop out of the sky like lead balloons.

I think that was the final time that the US mocked the 'primative' russian technology.

You go ruskies!

Umm yeah

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry if it wasn't too obvious. But that is basically the message that America, or rather its government and foreign policy, is spreading to people around the world. If you read any of my other posts you'd see that I despise this hypocrisy no less than you do.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by maloy]

Originally posted by maloy
Umm yeah

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry if it wasn't too obvious. But that is basically the message that America, or rather its government and foreign policy, is spreading to people around the world. If you read any of my other posts you'd see that I despise this hypocrisy no less than you do.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by maloy]

I had noticed this and was simply adding my own story to the conversation.