Military Strength of Russia (and compared to other nations)

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Conventional war as opposed to nuclear war, not assymetric warfare..
depends on how you define conventional.

What I mean is... in the "CONVENTIONAL" war against Iraq, the US had no problems with the Iraqi ARMED FORCES, that was what they were trained to do..to win a Regular Conventional WAR & they did that!!! Now As far as keeping the country together & stopping Iraqi people & terroist from killing Us & their own people etc after the WAR ,thats another story..the US forces was not trained to really do this.

So the brilliant US plan was to bash into the country, kill everyone who shooted at them and walk out?
The Americans seem to think that everyone else in the world has the same view of events and actions as them. But the truth is - they are not liberators. They are, more often than not, the oppresors.
Having said all that, I do believe that many Americans wish for everyone to live like them and have the best intentions in mind for others. But you must realise - things must happen in their own time. USSR tried the same path and look where it ended up. It helped other nations so much that it drew its economy thin and collapsed in the end.

Another thing you might want to know - if every nations consumed as much resources as America does it would take 4 Earths to support all the people.

Originally posted by rogue1
NO, obviously your english isn't that good - so now you are saying it wasn't justified ?

I did not af first use the word at all so i am certainly not going to defend something i never said.

Well they weren't sold, simple as that.

They were and the Vietnamese are still paying back some of the money to this day.

Come on provide evidence. You always say what you say is well supported by evidence yet time and again you refuse or cannot find teh eveidence to back yourself up

I have provide more than sufficient evidence but why should i always do so when you never ever bother defending your vapid views with actual factual material?

Oh right right, yet you cannot find anything to support you

How typical.

Actually what i said is what happened anjd if you do not like it i can hardly change reality to fit in with your preconceived notions.

LOL rigth, so hundreds of thousands of East Timorse were killed by US made weapons given for free. I thought you said you lived in reality.

It's the truth sadly enough even thought i should have used the Turkish example as the money trail behind the Indonesian arms leads first trough some European countries. Research export credits if you want to figure this out before i once again embarrass you with facts you wont like.

I suggest you do some reading about teh Viertnamese War and the hundred os thousands of civialins who were brutalised and murdered by the VC and NVA.

Actually that was down by the Southern forces in South Vietnam against their own people and did not happen in the North. You really must do some actual research before you say these ludicrous things!

Himan decency yeah right.
Next you'll be saying that apaertheid in South Africa was teh decent thing to do by humanity

Well since i stick to the truth i wont be saying that any day soon.... What i will say is at the very least one can say that the various rulers of South Africa never tried or never found enough interested to start a non stop genocidal campaign like those launched against American Indians or Australian Aborigines. There is not much good ( unless you were white that is) to say about the apartheid government but at least their aim was never so very clearly genocidal.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Well they weren't sold, simple as that.

They were and the Vietnamese are still paying back some of the money to this day.

SAys you, I thought you also said that Puitin forgave this imaginary debt as well Can't you remember what you write or is this just another typical example of you contradicting yourself ?

I have provide more than sufficient evidence but why should i always do so when you never ever bother defending your vapid views with actual factual material?

Yet you provide absolutely no factual materials here at all to support your statements. So we are just to believe your word ?

Actually what i said is what happened anjd if you do not like it i can hardly change reality to fit in with your preconceived notions.

Right so you say, yet you have no nformation about it NOrmally rou're a whiz with google, yet you don't even provide your usual fringe sites this time.

LOL rigth, so hundreds of thousands of East Timorse were killed by US made weapons given for free. I thought you said you lived in reality.

It's the truth sadly enough even thought i should have used the Turkish example as the money trail behind the Indonesian arms leads first trough some European countries. Research export credits if you want to figure this out before i once again embarrass you with facts you wont like.

Actually you are quite wrong. You only emabarass yourself. You love your throw away statements, we have all become wuite sued to them, but hey keep going I like a good laugh.

Actually that was down by the Southern forces in South Vietnam against their own people and did not happen in the North. You really must do some actual research before you say these ludicrous things!

Actually no, the NVA and VC committed many atrocities in South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. You obviously haven't researched the war at all, because your statement that the NV were some enlightened force are quite stupid

Well since i stick to the truth i wont be saying that any day soon.... What i will say is at the very least one can say that the various rulers of South Africa never tried or never found enough interested to start a non stop genocidal campaign like those launched against American Indians or Australian Aborigines.

LOL, only reason was because the white Afrikaaner scum were outnumbered and international outrage would have quickly put an end to their barbarous regime. Interesting you mention the Aborigines ( which there are still many around and there was never a genocidal campaing - Idiot ) and American Indians, they all happened in much less enlightened times. Yet the barbourous Afrikaaner scum did all this in the 20th century right up until the 1990's - what monsters.

Hello, I think that from Washington's stanpoint the Cold War is not over yet.
What reasons can they possibly give?
a) a military threat to the U.S. still exists in the form of one country - Russia
b) the military-industrial complex of the U.S. is reliant in perpetual warfare (hot or cold)
c) the American regime feels vulnerable (and maybe even quite ashamed) that third-rate energy-rich countries like Venezuela could exert influence over it (and a lot of the roads to energy security lead to places in Russia's neighborhood)

So, I think that these steps toward peace between East and West will collapse like a deck of cards and who knows what the future holds. Personally, I believe that the U.S. will initiate a nuclear war, trying to take Russia out, thinking that it can.

Russia, of course, will repel the attack and launch one of its own and the U.S. and its allies (mainly the U.K., Japan, and Australia - as well as Mexico, Colombia, Georgia, and other non-importants) will become incapaciated. I think that it will be interesting to see NATO collapse and Russia receiving support from the likes of Germany, France, and Israel (who's not in NATO, but still).

These developments underscore the re-emerging of Russia as a major global power. The new Russia is gaining in influence through a series of strategic moves revolving around its geopolitical assets in energy - most notably its oil and natural gas. It's doing so by shrewdly taking advantage of the strategic follies and major political blunders of Washington. The new Russia also realizes that if it does not act decisively, it soon will be encircled and trumped by a military rival, the US. The battle, largely unspoken, is the highest stakes battle in world politics today. Iran and Syria are seen by Washington strategists as mere steps to this great Russian End Game.

Part 1: Moscow plays its cards strategically
Part 2: Washington's nightmare

Originally posted by rogue1
SAys you, I thought you also said that Puitin forgave this imaginary debt as well

Well it's what the American library of congress says so....

Can't you remember what you write or is this just another typical example of you contradicting yourself ?

It's just another example of you wasting my time with non-objections.

Yet you provide absolutely no factual materials here at all to support your statements.

I do not have to support it as it's well understood and not contested by informed people.

So we are just to believe your word ?

Frankly yes, unless you are willing to contest it with actual factual material.

Right so you say, yet you have no nformation about it

NOrmally rou're a whiz with google, yet you don't even provide your usual fringe sites this time.

I always provide factual material from official sources and there is nothing you have foamed at the mouth so far to suggest that you actually have material contesting or disputing it. Your opinion is completely worthless to me on this matter and most other.

Actually you are quite wrong. You only emabarass yourself.

Those are the facts and you never ( i should say rarely but does 5 out of hundreds count?) do prove me wrong in anything but your own mind.

You love your throw away statements, we have all become wuite sued to them, but hey keep going I like a good laugh.

Laugh all you want as your ignorance surely wont rub of on me however long you keep making it known here.

Actually no, the NVA and VC committed many atrocities in South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

And the vast majority of the premedetated killing were done by either US forces or the South's brutal police and armed forces. The NVA and VC committed plenty of crimes of their own but so did the ANC and any other freedom movement fighting against overwhelming forces with simply means and peasant forces. Without US involvement or the support of the French earlier there would not be such massive suffering.

You obviously haven't researched the war at all, because your statement that the NV were some enlightened force are quite stupid

Well i have researched it and the NVA were certainly not the one's responsible for the balance ( or anything close) of atrocity perpetrated by the US or the South they backed into being. You must remember that the partition of the country was only due to the intervention of imperial forces like the French earlier and then the US. Had it been up to Vietnamese the choice of leader was a given.

LOL, only reason was because the white Afrikaaner scum were outnumbered and international outrage would have quickly put an end to their barbarous regime.

The Europeans were also originally outnumbered but that certainly did not prevent them from committing atrocity any more than it did around here. The problem in South Africa was simple the reality that the original company involved had not very much interest in taking over everything and everything invested in trading for food supplies , with the natives, with which to supply ships. I can not honestly say that i know why it happened so very differently here as the natives were not very well organized at the start either. All imperial contingents are normally outnumbered but that did not prevent large scale genocide in India , the America's or many other places. Barbarous ( by historical comparison with what were happening in America's South or in Australia, Indonesia, Palestine,Turkey, Iraq) it certainly was not as the powers in charge of those atrocities had absolutely nothing to fear of the minorities they were killing en mass.

Whatever happened in South Africa was always against the stark reality that the racist supremacist minority were always outnumbered and could only kill large numbers of people by very passive ( neglect, forced removals, created poverty etc)means ; not the same as the state sponsored terror in those other places against which minorities had NO chance.

Interesting you mention the Aborigines ( which there are still many around and there was never a genocidal campaing - Idiot )

Hundreds of thousands ( depending on who you believe) were killed by a variety of means since the late Eighteen hundreds to the present day and it was systematic and compared to the original population pool that IS genocide. There are something like three hundred to four hundred thousand Aborigines living in Australia today in spite of Government and civil measures. You might want to check out what a Australian John Pilger has to say on this issue as i am sure he had personal correspondence with South African activists that were indicating that more Australian Aborigines were dying in state custody in Australia than were in South Africa apartheid police custody in the mid 80's. That alone should tell one a something about the scale of persecution that still goes in Australia considering the vast differences in population groups.

and American Indians, they all happened in much less enlightened times.

I would say no and blame it on much less enlightened people and the policy were going strong before and after the American civil war which is a quite recent event.

Yet the barbourous Afrikaaner scum did all this in the 20th century right up until the 1990's -

What will a minority do to hold power? What excuse do the majority governments in so many countries have for their genocidal campaigns? If you want to call them barbarous scum that is fine and at the very least partly true but it's not the full story and does not explain the extent of such actions all over the world against MINORITIES.

what monsters.

Crimes are crimes and those who perpetrated them deserve whatever hell they end up in.

Stellar

hey native americans were slaughtered and killed, millions over millions were killed, they moved them from "conservation" to another, and by conversations i'd bet it was some sort of forced labor camp or a make shift tent camp that wouldn't even protect against rain or wind, just like what was done in russia by stalin, just like what was done to the jews with hitler... it's all the same, but nobody talks about that, that's why i and people like stellar have to talk about it, and that's why it's sounds so foreign, because you've probably never heard anybody talk about this before, barely anybody knows about it. have you ever listen to Tupac, listen to some of those songs maybe you'll get alittle insight into impoverished america, have you ever listen to qoutes from Malcolm X, to MLK Jr, all of them, they all knew what impoverished, most specifically impoverished black, america goes through on a daily basis. or what about the fact that when you get a group of students that are poor and known for poor grades, suddenly get a truly caring teacher that actually teaches something and makes them get the good grades and excell, and they take a state exam such as SAT, they make such good grades that are way above average, they get persecuted, they get punished and accused of cheating, when excellence should be rewarded. many stories unfold like this for many in impoverished, you might say racism is over, but i'm telling you even if it's not racism there is still that prejudice, that hate and looking down on attitude in america on the impoverished....

One thing that I have to say is that I think that the Soviet National Anthem is far greater than the United States one. It has pride and enthusiasm in it but as for the American, it's more like a woosy cry baby one that puts tears in your eyes. Soviet one sounds like it's harder to play than the American. And I say this all living in the United States.

posted by INC2006

Native Americans were slaughtered and killed, millions over millions were killed, they moved them from "conservation" to another, and by conversations I’d bet it was some sort of forced labor camp or a make shift tent camp that wouldn't even protect against rain or wind, just like what was done in Russia by Stalin, just like what was done to the Jews with Hitler . . you might say racism is over [in America], but I’m telling you even if it's not racism there is still that prejudice, that hate and looking down on attitude in America on the impoverished . . “ [Edited by Don W]

I6, you forgot the Trail of Tears of the Cherokee who were force marched from the wooded uplands of their GA and NC home, to the dry flatlands of Oklahoma. 15,000 died, one in three. An American version of the to-come-later Bataan death March. 3,000 died, one in 25. You forgot the railroad freight cars that carried the Apache from Arizona to mosquito infested swamps of Florida, where it was known malaria would kill most of them in quick order. Sort of a preview of the Nazi transportation system for the Jews.

“ . Forced labor? . ” Not really. Instead it was slow death, by starvation, by disconnecting the NA from their lands, to become a whole group of demoralized and helpless people. To contract diseases more common when people live in close, unsanitary quarters. Victims of a general malaise. Say an early Warsaw Ghetto. Wilful? Yes. To kill them? No, I don’t think so. Life for everyone was much more difficult in those “good old days.” Before the 20th century, it was not uncommon for a family to loose half of its children before age 5. Death was a constant companion for everyone. Living was so bad that death was often greeted cheerfully.

Yes, Americans admire the R&Fs even though the chances of them ever becoming an R&F-er are slim to none. I think it is the American Dream that keeps this thing in motion. That occasional guy or gal who makes it big. Like a great lottery in the sky. Maybe that’s for the better? Who knows? Our system surely has many flaws that deserve to be addressed instead of ignored.

How many NA died after 1607? Or 1519 if you include the Spanish. Obviously, no one knows the exact number. We did not issue death certificates then. We did not issue birth certificates in my state of Ky until 1917. Old US Census reports contain most of the information available since 1790. Demographers study this issue. I have seen the estimated number of NA north of the Rio Grande put at 3 million minimum and up to 15 million maximum. While I’m sure white people noticed that many more NA died of small pox, for example, than white’s, I’m not sure if they attributed that fact to anything, but perhaps they saw it as a proof that Christianity was superior to Shamanism.

That this great decimation worked to the advantage of the whites was obvious. That the whites knew why it happened - except as conjectured above - or what to do about it I’m pretty sure they did not nor did they care either. I believe the 1900 Census gave the NA population in the US to be 300,000. It has increased every census since that low point.

Chief Joseph: "I want to have time to look for my children, and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever." en.wikipedia.org...

posted by wildcat

One thing is I think that the Soviet [Russian?] National Anthem is far greater [better] than the United States’ one. It has pride and enthusiasm in it but as for the American, it's more like a woozy cry baby one that puts tears in your eyes. Soviet [Russian] one sounds like it's harder to play than the American. And I say this living in the United States. [Edited by Don W]

Mr W, that is a sufficiently innocuous opinion that you need not worry about finding yourself secretly declared an “enemy combatant” and confined to Guantanamo Bay on an indefinite basis.


[edit on 11/6/2006 by donwhite]

numbers of NA have severely went down since the first time europeans set foot on the americas. there might have been 10's or 100's of millions of them then, now in N america Numbers of NA are barely maybe 2million at max. anyhow i have posted about the Native americans and the trail of tears before on another post. thanks for reminding me this time.

Haha wow, surprising information about them.

Originally posted by donwhite

posted by INC2006

Mr W, that is a sufficiently innocuous opinion that you need not worry about finding yourself secretly declared an “enemy combatant” and confined to Guantanamo Bay on an indefinite basis.


[edit on 11/6/2006 by donwhite]

Oh I'm not worried, it's called freedom of speech and if it's repealed, then there would be automatic rebellion.

Originally posted by wildcat

Originally posted by donwhite

posted by INC2006

Mr W, that is a sufficiently innocuous opinion that you need not worry about finding yourself secretly declared an “enemy combatant” and confined to Guantanamo Bay on an indefinite basis.


[edit on 11/6/2006 by donwhite]

Oh I'm not worried, it's called freedom of speech and if it's repealed, then there would be automatic rebellion.

lol, there better be.. but hell if they repeal that, they ain't dumb enough to do it without a cause, they're gonna orchestrate some great big "terrorist" attack, that really requires censoring.... wow they'll probably just nuke D.C. and then tell us please vote to repeal Freedom of speech, then everytime you say "terrorist" and they hear you, you just got put in jail.... and people are probably gonna be dumb enough to vote yes on this, or they might just use electronic voting and manipulate all the votes....

Originally posted by INc2006
numbers of NA have severely went down since the first time europeans set foot on the americas. there might have been 10's or 100's of millions of them then, now in N america Numbers of NA are barely maybe 2million at max. anyhow i have posted about the Native americans and the trail of tears before on another post. thanks for reminding me this time.

LOl hwta bollocks, there weren't hundreds of millions of NA Indians noe were there 10's of millions. They just didn't have that sort of population density Lets be realistic.
Of course the NA Indians also destroyed the aboriginal peoples ( the last reminanents still reside in the tip fo Sounth America - Tierra Del Fuego ) before them, so what comes around .....

PS. Sorry for going off topic, but I always have to to respond to people who post completely ridiculous stuff.

look i'm saying this not out of internet sources, it was straight out of school books, and yes there were at least 10's of millions of Native Americans.

dude, so just because NA killed the aboriginal people means that what the Americans done to the NA is justified, by that your saying that the holocaust was justified because the Americans done it before. so please.... count to 10 before you answer, just cause somebody stole a car doesn't make it right for you to go steal a car...

Originally posted by INc2006
dude, so just because NA killed the aboriginal people means that what the Americans done to the NA is justified, by that your saying that the holocaust was justified because the Americans done it before. so please.... count to 10 before you answer, just cause somebody stole a car doesn't make it right for you to go steal a car...

NO simply pointing out that's it's the cycle of life, nothing more nothng less. The NA did it, then the white people did it to the NA's. the strong will always dominate the weak.

As for 10's of millions, what exactly does that mean from 20-99 million, please define yr figure, that is simply way too vague and simply points to the inaccyracy o your textbooks, then again I guess yua re being schooled in the US - not surprising.

actually i just moved to the US 3 years ago from Jordan. and so what if i'm being schooled in the US, i understand that figures are usually made vague and uninteresting, etc. but it doesn't matter, even those vague figures are huge anyway you know, 20mil is not a small figure....

I dont mean to sidetrack or change the topic here but does anyone know where I can get information on what branches of the russian military, security service and interior ministery women can join?

Originally posted by devilwasp
I dont mean to sidetrack or change the topic here but does anyone know where I can get information on what branches of the russian military, security service and interior ministery women can join?

As far as I know there is no restriction in any of the aforesaid branches for women in Russia...they can work in any branch but in Russia there are some jobs where t traditionally women dominate and some others were men dominate

Women dominate in being Doctors ,teachers ,Clerks ,secretaries , supervisors,journalists
women constitute 80% of the workforce in these jobs (most of the doctors in Russia are women )

while men dominate in Military,police department, Research ,administration and politics.

however with change of time both men and women are moving to nontraditional professions