Michael Ignatieff: The Next Liberal Leader?

Duzey, I concur 100% that Stephane Dion is the best and most logical choice for the future of the "Liberal" party as we have come to know it in a historical sense. Closest to the perception of them (The Liberal Party Of Canada) as I would expect it, for sure. Internationally he would be better than holdin' seven aces in 5 card poker... 'cept for "you know who"...shhh, they're busy frying Foley... maybe we can sneak "Dion De Le Lion" in while they're in mid-terms! LOL.

"Dion De Le Lion" doesn't even have any corporate involvement at all - not even a hint of scandal - ever. Amazing. Clean as a whistle. A clean rather diplomatic fellow known for his positive social policies. He speaks several languages and writes in three - bitchin'. Even better he doesn't talk down to folks like Iggy does. Putz.

Domestically - "Houston: We have a problem". Can "we" stand Albertans and the fine folks of Saskatchewan and Manitoba that po'd? How 'bout you in BC? Nunavut? Yukon? Maybe, but Western alienation and even separation is every bit as likely there as PQ... maybe more likely - they got bucks - the "Riches and Legacy Of King Ralph". If Dion leads then the PQ problem does go away for say the 41st Parliament of Canada. Read his stuff: good themes no policy specifics.

Gerard Kennedy is "the next one". TO-based westerner, Edmonton 50/50 mix there. Look him up: Edmonton Food Bank, Toronto Foodbank, MPP (lost the first time he ran) , Provincial Cabinet Minister (one of the youngest if not the youngest), doesn't colour his hair, has the left-left-of-center Anglo-vote particularly in Ontario... speaks French like a Klingon - and has some sort of "next-time" deal with the BS machine. That "Lady Strong-Nacht" has some serious clout. Read his site: Ever see guys on the street raving at nothing? Like that. All bark...

"Canada" Dryden... what can one say... cabinet material? Should go back and teach law or sit on the judicial bench or Chancellor of a University? Man is that guy big and tall... he stoops during inteviews... he's like at least 6' 3". Has a message - read his site... couldn't figger out what he was sayin' or what he was gonna do about it... boring - vanilla - rice cakes. He was my favorite net-minder next to Jacques Plante... saved us from Karlamov and Tretiak in '72 back in the CCCP days. Vintage Canadian moment.

Now Iggy dropped "da bomb" War Crimes style... idiot stick. Couldn't keep his well-educated patrician trap shut. Big-dummy-ugly. I wonder if we let him drive a car? Camera plus Iggy equals disaster. Imagine what he can do with a whole country.

Actually Harpo's reaction to Iggy's statement are far more a threat to Harper than the entire Liberal Party and NDP combined... this boy is gettin' bad advice on what to say, he needs to get that fixed pronto.

You know he does have quite a pedigree, Iggy that is... ministerial family history within the Czar's family... bizzaro huh? Who'd a thunk it? Most folks think he's Jewish (not that it should matter) - until TODAY! What colour is the sky in Iggy's universe - chrome?

Can he only see himself looking back from the sky in academic and esthetic approval. Buddy's scortched large and bleedin' a bit. Now this little fumble has cost him LARGE... the nice lady from Thornhill who pulled her support today? Well with her went the "Little Knesset" and that's Toronto and Montreal... gone - McPoof. To where? Rae.

But wait... there's more, much more. "Call Me Bob" or more like, "Call me? Bob" Rae weathered that little "staff" problem in BC without a hit to speak of anywhere else... I mentioned that last week and guess what? His wife and daughter are get this wait for it... of a faith that considers Israel as "home". Need more? How about Bob has Bay Street - now ALL of Bay Street owing to Rona "The Machine" Ambrose's upcoming Conservative "enviro-bomb" next week. BTW: Steven Baird is being investigated for invasion of privacy stuff... naughty, naughty, number 3 in the "Steve-o" marionette troop.

41's buddy "Steve-o" gonna get Rona to kick Bay Street in an area peculiar to the male anatomy. Dummy, "Clean Air Act"? What's next "EPA" - what US consultant thought that up? Frum? We already have crap enviro-control, this is worse - it's gonna be "written in law" - big mistake. Going about it wrong and too little too late.

This will screw up automakers and the oil patch... the "patch" will survive... automakers? Maybe. Maybe not. Honda, Toyota and Hyundai could choose to do less here and FoMoCo and GM? Dodgey... loosing Oshawa, Oakville and St. Thomas would be less than good. I won't even start on softwood - did y'all here about Abitibi... whole North East Coast of Quebec laid off. Blamed it on the softwood "deal" as the last straw. Darn shame that happened on Steve-o's watch... shame.

So, "Call me? Bob" is smellin' pretty good 'bout now... please check the liberal.ca site - THEY PULLED ALL THE DELEGATE NUMBERS DATA - poof gone. Rae is at least even with Iggy as of tonight. Forget the first ballot local selection "binding" rules - Iggy's comments comments just threw that whole democratic delegate "binding" for a thousand dollars a pop confabulation of Liberal self-determination in the ashtray. Crushed out like a ciggie-butt.

This presents a possible new dynamic and Duzey rooted it out - Dion on a second or third ballot picking up delegates from Dryden and Iggy while Bob has the "Little Knesset" and Bay Street and most important "Lady Strong-Nacht" and Kennedy. I'm thinkin' Rae-Dion 4th ballot, Rae wins by a whisker and moves to put Dion in a Supra-cabinet position involving PQ and Foreign affairs and maybe a new Cultural portfolio.

Folks might wanna look up Bob Rae... he's been busy since he alienated Ontario Labour - I saw Francis Fankin slap him... knocked him down more like... (she's the current uber-boffin at UnitedWay - used to be a jail guard at the Don, nice lady) not to mention the Zananna Akande housing minister slumlord owner hassle... and Hydro... not his making all those nuke problems... bad pipes... still refittin' some of them.

Big old, folksy, friendly and witty Bob... sharp as Damascus steel. Speed-thinker, and thinks before he speaks... optimal on camera - blue eyes, white hair (coloured) almost grandfatherly. Quick with a joke and knows all the media by first name and never dodges an interview... sometimes he even actually answers questions in terms that don't have "wiggle-room". I kinda like that. I don't trust him for one instant. A wolf in sheep's clothing who dances with tthe devil in the pale moonlight.

Duzey has offered one thing I do take issue with... BC (our most rugged province)does affect the outcome of elections significantly and has many times federally just not recently that's all. BC "leanings" affect policy - sometimes policy wins elections. Remember a guy named Trudeau? Married a nice young BC lass he did. Saved his butt - twice BC did.

Duze' I must remind you that the election is never over till you fine left-coast folks are done voting. You've still got it right to my way of thinkin' here in Arab-Scarborough. Dion would be the best and most logical selection for the Liberal Party and I suspect Canada as a whole. We'll know how the Iggy-thing shakes out on the 15th... tick, tick, tick. RRRRRRRRRRRRoy Thomson Hall - Be there! It'll be on the net and TV... most important debate I can remember and this ain't even the party election! Not to mention "The Big Show" when Harpo's markspersons drop the writ on the Governor General, CFR personette Michaelle Jean.

Mr. Rae has some interesting international "associations" too, that some ATS-folk might consider of interest... try Google. Find out for yourself, you'll see. Buddy is busy with unexpected friends and aquaintances same as Iggy.

Canadian politics is as former Toronto street urchin Jim Carrey says as "The Mask", SSSSSSSmmmmokin!

Victor K.

41'

[edit on 13-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

It's Friday the 13th and things are heating up! The knock-out format for the debates has been announced at the following link: www.liberal.ca...

The public side of the show will be available on TV and the Net... try www.cpac.ca at about 3PM Sunday... a whole bunch will happen between now and then. The Libs have software that can be downloaded... seems they are going for exposure - "damn the torpedos - full speed ahead"... This "smash-up" will be more entertaining than a figure-eight stock car derby - who will be left standing? All stand to "take a hit"; there's no cross-checking or slashing rules... they're gonna drop the gloves come 3:00PM Eastern Sunday!

Victor K.

41'

EDIT: Seems Iggy is back-pedaling and treading water while he pats his head and rubs his tummy attempting to ride the Canadian political unicycle - Travis Pastrana he ain't... note the following was in French and aimed at primarily at Montreal... damage control and fire suppression spin - a link: www.cbc.ca...

Victor K.

41'

[edit on 13-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

Iggy's speech at U of T today... (if he hadn't had made a mess already) was actually pretty good... had some reasonably gushing remarks about his time in Israel teaching and how he's going back... and all is AOK. NOT. Neo wake up!

This statement of him living in the states for 5 years is well - MISLEADING at best at worst an outright distortion of fact. Try 30 years Mikey... yes, five years without a single footstep in Canada, 25 years with infrequent visits. Unacceptable spin - over-rev in fact. Not Canadian enough for me.

Now some of his policy is well, kinda reasonable in an egg-head conceptual sorta way. At least he wants to pump up education (don't they all?). I don't like this guy. Wouldn't invite him in my home... I'd have to powerwash and fumigate it all. Way greasy.

Most of his speech was spent slammin' Harper which is handy as he created the situation that both of them pathologically co-dependently were able to get all four of their feet crammed into their pie-holes... mirror image synchonized swimming in the vortex of a flushing public toilet. Few Canucks would call either "best of breed" solutions, but hey they're the chessmen on the board right now.

His speech is at the following link: www.michaelignatieff.ca...

He'll have to pull a rabbit and a logic-howitzer out of his hat in about 48 hours or he's toast. What was Bob doin' 2day? Golfing. Gave a couple of interviews - musta been chilly... Bob likes golf, really, really likes golf, he can't skate worth a darn... he picked up more support today... Iggy didn't.

Rae or Dion? Both will have to show well at the debate... or Iggy still has a slim chance of a second ballot Hail Mary... miracle. Dion can skate.

Victor K.

41'

Thanks for all the updates Victor.

Ignatieff seems to have mastered the art of talking out of both sides of his mouth. And he thinks we're stupid if he thinks we'll believe he only spent 5 years away from Canada.

Hopefully, the delegates who have the votes will see that this guy is bad news for their party. He has far too much baggage and apparently feel that the truth is a flexible thing that can be shaped to your needs. The Liberal Party needs to regain the trust of the people who want to vote for them.

I think Ignatieff is boring and he reminds me of John Kerry. That is not a good thing.

Can you say deflection?

The Liberal leadership race is getting ugly with Michael Ignatieff's camp urging the party to negate most of chief rival Bob Rae's delegate support in British Columbia.

In an appeal filed Friday and obtained by The Canadian Press, Ignatieff operations director Sachin Aggarwal accuses Rae's senior B.C. organizer of perpetrating "systematic fraud" during the sign-up of potential delegates in the province.

Aggarwal contends that fully 78 of Rae's 111 B.C. delegates are tainted by the fraud and he urges the party to strip Rae of those delegate spots.

Ignatieff camp urges party to disqualify most Rae delegates in B.C.

The Rae camp was the one that brought the problem to the attention of the party and they ruled that he could replace the delegates. If Iggy had an issue with this, he could have said something when the issue was actually being discussed by the party.

Then again, he wasn't getting slammed in the press when this was being talked about.

Let's all sit back and watch the anyone-but-Iggy voting begin. He is actually making the party look worse than ever, and I didn't think that was possible. The infighting needs to end now.

Rae seems to be doing well in BC... and elsewhere and perhaps better than anyone may have reasonably expected in Ontario. The numbers are interesting and will change significantly as a result of Ignatieff's controversy... some feel that he has alienated the "Little Knesset" which is right-of-center and the left and left-left-of-center.

The Quebec numbers are official but not really valid at this point, and these numbers have been "revised" since they were pulled on the day of Iggy's "War Crime" comments... they re-appeared in this state today on the Liberal Party website. Dion and Rae could split PQ deserters of the Iggy-meister about even with the edge to Dion outside of Montreal.





Angus-Reid, Decima and Ekos poles are showing Rae as gaining share and Ignatieff as losing share. They are only polls and were taken before the "War Crimes" flap and are from about two weeks ago.

Here's a Toronto Star link: www.angus-reid.com...

The debates which start tomorrow Sunday the 15th of October at 3:00PM Eastern -
those interersted can watch online or on TV try: www.cpac.ca and or www.liberal.ca for more information.

Victor K.

43'

[edit on 14-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

I'm surprised at Kennedy's support. Not a bad thing. It seems like Dion and Kennedy will make the next Lib leader, if their member's support follows.

BTW, I'd rather see either Kennedy or Dion to Rae. He'll be a bane in central Canada. Ignatiff has oral problems, unlike Clinton's, it's what come out of his mouth that is the problem.

As for Dryden? He was a helluva goaltender.

Kennedy is "the next one". Only Lib that can do "West" at the moment... BS and he have some sort of a deal... not sure how it'll play out. He needs to speak French better and stop "raving". Watch him speak, he loses himself in jargon. He's still very young - 4 or 5 years he'll be "the man".

I must agree that I would welcome Dion as the best most logical choice. But it's politics - reason and fact have little to do with it - power and public perception are the assets that get one a Party leadership.

This is the strangest darn leadership race in my living memory. Kind of exciting - sort of like a train wreck that you can't help but watch.

Victor K.

43'

Two hecklers, before it even started... think US style paid political hecklers.

The topics discussed were generated by email sent in by ordinary Canadians at www.liberal.ca over the duration of the campaign.

These are my impressions and as accurate as I can make them.

Issue 1: Women In Politics

Volpe who torpedoed Canada's Sheila Copps career... she was Deputy Prime Minister for a long time...
I won't go any further... the rest haven't a bloody clue.

Winner Dryden... ECE and family-centric policy.

Issue 2: Homelessness and Poverty and the Social Safety Net
Dion - housing
Brison mental health, literacy - harpoons Harper... former conservative
Bob Rae... Ontario... social housing... (significant applause) national housing policy
Brison - western aboriginal industrial parks?
Dion - tough - stammers...
Rae social planning... engaged... do the right thing... needs vs prudence - quoted Roosevelt - "compassion and need".
Brisson - Economy, economy, economy.
Dion - defending Cretien and Martin

Winner: Rae

Issue 2: Infrastucture
Findlay... more public transit... community centres... conservation?
kennedy... not sexy topic... dig down and provide for... regional disparity... gas tax for municipalities... borders... upload housing and transportation
Iggy... blames harper... $1 billion per year for 10 years to transit... Laval bridge collapse... invest in Trans-canada highway... nation building
Kennedy... 2BN per year... beginning only... predictable... pacific gateway... BC... pan-canadian perspective... cheering
Findlay... enivronment... critical investment.
Iggy... serious bucks... blames Harper.
Kennedy... give up gas tax federally... results... responsibility...
Findlay... inter-juridictional problems... encouraged working together
Iggy... regions left behind... rural canada? Hi-speed digital internet
Kennedy... shared prosperity.

Winner: Kennedy

Issue 3: Environment
Dion... carbon market system... defends history of the party... blames Harper
Dryden... connected... ecomomy in relation to other issues... science is clear - respect it
Iggy... national integrated environment program... price on carbon-dioxide... price on pollution behaviour... green
Dion... leadership... blames Harper
Dryden... haven't gotten there... why didn't we do better...
Dion... defends Cretien and Martin... yesterday's man
Iggy.. Canada didn't get it done... blames Harper.
Dion... to Iggy, "You don't know what you're talking about."
Iggy... blames Harper...
Iggy... let's go further... sustainable development
Dion... we need a real Prime Minister...

Winner: Dion

Issue 4: Same Sex Civil Marriage
Kennedy... civil human right... blames harper for mischief... Harper has not 5 priorities but 1... re-election
Brison... gay... answer could lead to a same sex divorce... don't take rights for granted... blames harper
Volpe... human rights... covered history... individual rights and collective rights... happy balance
Brison... supreme court... cornerstone of political party...
Volpe... sensible approach defending history... (he has had an anti-gay position historically)
Brison... calls Volpe out on his anti-gay speeches...
kennedy... not easy for us... reconcilling differences... rights before all...
Volpe... due process...
Brison... blames harper... calls him republican...
Kennedy... distinction to be made... not about religions...
Volpe... not an issue of position it's about building blocks... reciprocal understandings...
Brison .... wobbly on rights... NDP wins... proud...

Winner: Kennedy

Issue 5: Afghanistan
Findlay... 21st century... canada revisit international identity of Canada... evoked Pearson... prevention... export out values...
Iggy... principle... defend Canada... promotion of human and international rights... blames Harper
Rae... foreign policy... defend values and interests... defends Cretien not going to Irq... world peace... resolver of conflict... live better together... economic co-existence... values and interests
Findlay... would have voted no to mission extension... achievable goals... lead and participate...
Iggy... I wasn't complaining... basic resolve... political component... nor destroy poppy... strategy
Rae... reality... great Imperial exercise... Rae to Iggy, "You had your turn"... how is possible to succeed...... address and assess our interests
Iggy... puts words in Rae's mouth... change mind 3 times in a weeek
Findlay... Iggy and Bob are "great television"... task is to determine where we are and where we are going...

Winne:r Rae

Issue 6: Gun control...
Dion... problem mostly solved... defends history of program... blames harper
Dryden... I don't like guns... stupid human things plus guns equals trouble... gun registry effective.
Brison... doesn't defend waste... cops 12000 queries per week... blames harper... Dawson Harper... ban handguns... educate long gun owners
Dion... what can we improve... defends past policy... stop guns at the border... 500 more RCMP... blames harper
Dryden... community safety... public feels insecure... deal with root causes and listen to public concern about insecurity..
Brison... trashes # strikes... blames Harper - he's all about perception and Bush...
Dion... psychological support to victims...
Dryden... all about public understanding... ECE, deal with psycholical insecurity...
Dion... defends Paul Martin...
Brison... change perceptions... blame Harper and US republicanism
No winner

Issue 7: Media,Culture and Communication Tech... continue to rule content on the net... regulate foreign ownership...
Kennedy... yes federal prescence to control internet... CBC... cultural presence influence canadian culture... diversity of supports... reform CRTC
Volpe... feds part and pacel as the telling of the Canadian story...
Rae... policy supporter... flexibility... model with public and private sector suppoet... internet... protect against kiddie porn internationally
Volpe... provide infrastucture for cultural industry... film festivals... investment... Canadian story... we'd do more... grand vision...
Kennedy... international country... full commitment to the Canadian story expression... education... give access to all voices via the net
Rae... challenge is so big... we need it all... world changes fast... internet... culture as extension of communication... support large and small organizations
Volpe... defends history... focus on education..

Tie: between Kennedy and Rae...

Speeches on Liberal Party of canada direction section of the media event:

Findlay... women female voice... platitudes aren't good enough. Never heard someone use "platitudes" in a platitude before.

Dion... social housing... blames Harper... 10 year old children in jail... division of nation by Harper... unity debate 1st and foremost
defends history... Quebec and canada first

Kennedy... smooth quiet... support on terms that work for Canadians... party reform... excellent speech... reformed socialist feeling... next generation of Liberal leadership... BS... international country.. women...immigrants... turn around poverty... we must let go of only those things that hold us back... very well written... BS has "people".

Dryden... best part travel... Canadians are inspiring... cultural landscape... blames Harper.... great divider... evokes hockey
... Broadstreet bullies... mission we had to win cuz they were wrong for hockey... Canada time to suck it up... time to win... we won 4 straight

Brison... I play hockey too,,, economy... why he's in the race... competitive economy... creates trust... global competition... Clinton, "it's the sustainable economy stupid"... reprent gays, biz, rural... new ideas clean energy... fairer tax and economic opportunities...

Iggy... talks about "energy", McGuinty... saves Eastern Ontrio... beat Harper... know who we are the party of hope... conscience of our country... says tonight... sorry it's sunny and bright in Toronto at 4:36PM... human rights... he wants to get us into deeper int'l steamy piles... sustainable development... I need your help to get there...

Volpe... immigration... family... impressions of canada... Iggy slight... "just discovered Canada"... Canadians talk... and build... I embody the Canadian Dream... pride... integrity... human right... process participant... proprietors of a new Canada

Rae... past battles... Sundin 500th hat-trick goal... shorthanded... hat-trick... Harper... we need better... debate... what matters to the people of Canada is the most important... party unity for the future... build an agenda... team ... slams US Republicans... building together... experience, vision, center, respect. Reconnect to the Unity of Canada... Evoked Sir Wilfred Laurier... Canada first last and always... hatrick... full points...


My totally subjective summary:

Bob Rae just won this media event.

I think Brison is better, used to be a Conservative. I never thought so before. An economy-centric-gay Prime Minister... that might work... maybe not this time.

Findlay who? Think Joe Who? Clark. Not comfortable in high stress situations like this...

Kennedy is "The Next One"... seemed far calmer than I ever remember... Stronach factor 9... just not until next time... being groomed... and now his hands don't flail around and he doesn't spit when talks any more... he's way, way cooler than normal... like he knows "something" we don't or he's on Ritalin or both.

Dion - flame-out on both engines... no hydraulic pressure... crrrash and burn - he is my "technical" favorite... bad day, bummer...we'll see.

Dryden - better than I expected.More after the media spots that feature each prospective leader.

Iggy? What Iggy? Dead batteries... Connecticut Mikey. Think Connecticut Mikey. it's more your size dude. He wants to get Canada into trouble like Mark "The Voice" Dailey at CITY_TV says,"EVERYWHERE" and add an echo effect... Oh my, I'm not likin' this guy even more.

At some point Lady "Strong-Nacht" will show her downcard... this is Canadian party politics... it's "cut-throat" if she goes with Rae - he wins.

Belinda Stronach. Perhaps the most powerful woman currently a Canadian liberal, holds the future of the Liberal party in her hand right now, she will be the most powerful Liberal regardless of gender at some point... most likely on Dec. 2nd. If Bob and Iggy take each other out watch for Dion or kennedy.

There is one other potential "fly-in-the-ointment" - the "Old Ones", they defacto get a vote at the convention... these ex-officio part members are between 600 and 1000 strong... Dion or Rae for them.

Victor K.

43

That's a pretty impressive rundown on the debate. I missed the first half hour, but caught the rest.

The one thing that kept running through my mind was that Ignatieff needs to watch his camera angles and get a new haircut. The man kind of reminded me of Bela Lugosi. Really.

Michael Ignatieff



Bela Lugosi





[edit on 16-10-2006 by Duzey]

I see the resemblance immediately D'... could be familial, really. Lugosi was a Hungarian with a Czarist maternal ancestral history. Uh, so has Mikey.

Let's expand on that potential commonality... Lugosi movie, 1930's Such Men Are Dangerous. Iggy? Lugosi movie, 1932's White Zombie. Iggy? Lugosi movie, 1933's International House (think Animal house). Iggy? Lugosi movie, 1946's Genius At Work. Iggy? Look up a Lugosi filmography... there's even funnier.

Poor Stephan Dion, like I'm crushed for the guy, really I mean it. He still has the favour of the "Old Ones... for now. Brison showed well for an ex-Conservative... economy, economy, economy. Dryden, 'close your eyes and listen to him; his voice and cadence and iambic pentameter are identical to that of Harper. I bet on an oscilloscope the graphic amplitude and frequency are near to the same. I do like Dryden's message, he's just not an effective public speaker and he sweats like a pig. Volpe? Lucky to be found in the trunk of a car.

Old friendly Bob. I don't trust hime for one second or Iggy. I can't wait to see what Mercer says about this and the Harper/Williams "dust up".

Hey D' what struck you as relavent as a resident of the left-coast? As a member of the non-male gender? Did anything "speak to you" as in: "Ah, that's about me, here in BC"? Ciao, Bella (not Lugosi...LOL).

Victor K.

43"

PS. Unsubstantiated rumours of the Tragically Hip's Gord Downey being "interested" in politics... they "say" lyrically some interesting stuff from time to time... who is BS's favorite band? What band played at Belinda's kid's birthday? Heh heh.

Really, none of it spoke to me.

From the female point of view, I think it's unfortunate that Findlay-Hall is the only female running. It doesn't say good things about the party. It was funny when she ended up mediating between Iggy and Rae.

The debate mainly solidified my feelings that Iggy would be a very, very bad choice for the party.

That was priceless huh, "Gentlemen, please!" That kind of says it all huh? When the one person with less than a fair chance at winning (by gender bias design), has to remind the two with that unfair advantage to play fair. Mommy, spankin' a bottom, no two bottoms... good for her. So ironic and demonstrative of the problem. She will get a cabinet position... quite likely through a token "deal" at the convention. I think the NDP has a better set of "People" policies... not that they'll get elected federally before I'm dead and gone.

I thought Kennedy came across with a balance that showed a regard for the far-West, same with Brison tho' mostly economic. If the "party" would wake up and realize that the west is as important as TO or Montreal or Bay Street and get a meaningful number of female candidates and boots on the grouind they'd do better long term... way better.

I'm sorry there wasn't much in it that spoke to you... shows how far the Libs have yet to go. This was there BIG debate/media event and it didn't entirely get the job done. When an election comes I'm be-jiggered as to whom I'll choose... I'll quite likely vote for a party to stop something issue-wise even though all three parties have lots of "stuff" I'm not in favour of. I'd rather vote for something rather than against something but hey all the parties are broken in some way.

I was thinkin' about women in politics in relationship to this party... there is one right now who has all the boys by the... well you know. Belinda, now that's power. She "owns" candidates (perhaps plural) for the current leadership and may well determine the Libs fate for a long time... if she so chooses. Heh Heh.

Victor K.

43'

[edit on 16-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

Today's French language debate in Montreal was interesting and a very different "show" than in Ontario last week. I watched in French to force myself to use some long underused language muscles.

The big thing I learned that English-folks can't speak or more importantly "think" Quebecois worth a darn and the message gets lost... seemed several speeches were very disjointed as if the speaker forgot where they were.

Dion rocked and finally got his message out... no hat-trick tho'. It may not have been enough and too late.

That Ignatieff fellow was saying some pretty nasty stuff about George Bush today, even more nasty than Bob Rae. This stance is largely a facade of showpersonship. It was like Iggy was tryin' to "out-anti-American-Imperialism" them all, which is exceedingly hard to do. I've read his books and papers and this is a 180 from what one would think his perspective would be... but then again this is Quebec, Montreal Quebec and a media-op within a party campaign.

Iggy has thrown in with the left-left-of-center Libs in PQ calling for Quebec as a nation... and another referendum by implication... here we go again. Dion and Rae say that might not be a "good thing" and I tend to agree for now. From what I gather BS's people were in Montreal... I'm sure she has bigger fish to fry between now and the 2nd of December.

Kennedy and Dryden are positioning themselves for cabinet... (they didn't try and ambush anyone today) it's now between Iggy, Bob, and Stephane. Quebec will provide the setting and backdrop and a great deal of "flavour" to who be select as Liberal leader December 2nd.

Victor K.

43'

[edit on 21-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

Did Dion make significant enough strides to challenge Iggy and Rae? Personally I think that Dion is the MAN that the Libs need. It's not like the rest of Canada isn't used to a French Canadian as PM. Who else could make inroads in Quebec?

Dion is definitely the right choice at this point in time.

Why would the Liberals want a leader who couldn't be bothered to take out a membership (Iggy, Rae) until there was an opportunity to run for leadership? That's something I just don't understand.

[edit on 21-10-2006 by Duzey]

The "Old One's" (ex-officio party members and dignitaries) will go with Dion in a majority... coukl be as few as 600 and some say as many as 1800... that's a bunch of votes "out there" that may or may not be put to use. The big "stick in the mud" is Rae... he has Bay Street, and the "Little Knesset" and with Rons'a "Enviro-Bomb" the balance of centerist biz and corporate support. Especially the manufacturing sector... bizzaro but true.

It will depend on Dion playing the convention skillfully... if he could persuade BS/Kennedy, then it'd be a 3rd or 4th ballot horserace. Dion needed to show better and more often in English Canada - he did not and still doesn't have an "English" machine.

The new convention ballot structure is "wack" and it seems that delegates could theoretically be bought and grand-fathered in as the "first-ballot-binding" hasn't proved it's worth beyond invalidating the first ballot in the context of the real race... ballots 2,3,4... perhaps even a fifth.

December 2nd is weeks away... a bunch could happen, here and in international politics. Dion has a chance and stands to pick up the pieces of any Iggy mis-steps. Rae and Iggy are internationalists, Dion? Not so much, or less corporate anyway.

Victor K.

43'

[edit on 21-10-2006 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by Duzey

On the eve of the Liberals' super weekend, when some 4,300 delegates will be chosen to attend the party's Dec. 2 leadership convention, a confidential memo from Conservative national campaign chief Doug Finley was conveniently leaked to two newspapers, one French, one English.
Tory memo assesses Liberal leadership candidates

What is going on? Harper has too much control over the Conservatives to have 'leaks' like this happen.

Just like I thought, this 'leak' was anything but a leak.

One Conservative aide took pride in pointing out that his party fabricated an internal party memo suggesting their troops were most afraid of Michael Ignatieff - and most anxious to face Rae.

The ersatz memo was leaked to a pair of English-and French-language newspapers and ran under headlines that cast it as a behind-the-scenes peek at Tory strategy.

The name of Tory campaign chair Doug Finley, the supposed author of the memo, was stamped on the document as an afterthought.

The Tories then made arrangements to get the memo leaked through a third party to English and French newspapers, Tory sources said.


Delighted Tories say they helped knock Rae out of Liberal race

This disgusts me, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Peter MacKay deserves to be shunned forever for allowing the Progressive Conservatives to merge with these jerks. I want my party back.

Phew!

Canada dodged a bullet named Ignatieff IMO.
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So it looks like the best one out of that lot won. Cool.