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Op/Ed: A Staged War And Precursor To Pre-emptive Strike On Iran

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posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Really? Care to provide a single link showing Hezbollah as responsible for a single suicide attack in Israel? You can't, because they have never done it.

You confusing them with Hamas



ARABS-ISRAEL - Nov. 29 - Hizbollah Urges More Suicide Attacks
APS Diplomat Recorder, November, 2002

Lebanese Hizbollah leader Shaikh Hassan Nasrallah urges Palestinians to ignore international criticism of suicide attacks and keep up armed struggle against Israel as the best way to liberate their land. He says: "What will protect Jerusalem, its holy places, and get it and Palestine back is the ...

www.findarticles.com...


Hizballah
Iran's growing involvement, through Hezbollah, in Palestinian terrorism in Israel and in the Palestinian Authority administered territories in the course of 2004

Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Center for Special Studies (C.S.S)

Special Information Bulletin January, 12 2005 [1]

Photographs taken at a memorial ceremony held in Gaza City for Ghaleb Awali, a Hezbollah operative who directed Palestinian terrorist activities in the Palestinian Authority administered territories [Abu Dhabi Television, July 22]. Spokesmen for the Palestinian terrorist organizations spoke with great respect, gratitude and admiration of the assistance Awali had provided to the Palestinian armed struggle and of Hezbollah's support of the Palestinians.

* * *

One of the major trends in 2004 was Iran's growing involvement in Palestinian terrorism through Hezbollah, used by the Iranians as an operative leverage vis-a-vis Israel. In July 2004, against the backdrop of the death of Ghaleb Awali, a Hezbollah operative who directed Palestinian terrorist operatives in the Palestinian Authority administered territories. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah publicly admitted (for the first time) that his organization was providing assistance to Palestinian terrorism.

General characteristics of Hezbollah's orchestration of Palestinian terrorist elements in 2004

3. Hezbollah operates dozens of terrorist operative groups in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip. In 2004, these cells perpetrated 68 terrorist attacks, killing 24 Israelis (approximately 21% of the 117 Israelis killed in terrorist attacks in 2004) and injuring 52 (approximately 8% of the 589 Israelis wounded in terrorist attacks in 2004).

4. The methods employed by Hezbollah to direct the activities of the terrorist organizations in the Palestinian Authority administered territories are reminiscent of those characteristic of the Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad headquarters on the "outside" in their activities vis-a-vis their "inside" infrastructures. Within this context, Hezbollah's activity vis-a-vis the terrorist organizations has several prominent characteristics:

a. Giving instructions to perpetrate mass-murder terrorist attacks inside Israel to the terrorist infrastructures on the "inside".

b. Dispatching Palestinians from the "outside" to carry out terrorist missions in Israel (see the Appendix for an example).


c. Transferring significant sums of money to the various terrorist infrastructures.

d. Mediation between operatives located at various focal points of activity in the Palestinian Authority administered territories.

e. Exerting efforts to upgrade the terrorist capacities of the terrorist infrastructures in the Palestinian Authority administered territories by:

haganah.org.il...



Other groups -- including Hamas, the PKK (a Kurdish group in Turkey), Chechen rebels and, of course, al Qaeda -- followed suit, incorporating suicide terrorism in their military strategies.

According to Pape's charts, about half the suicide terrorist campaigns from 1980-2003 achieved some degree of success; the Israelis, for example, withdrew from Lebanon following bombings by Hezbollah.

And with success came a rise in suicide terrorism, even as overall terrorist incidents were declining. It became a key tactic, alongside more conventional attacks, for these groups.


The religion question
September 11, 2001, along with years of suicide attacks in Israel, prompted many to link Islam with suicide bombing -- an assertion that Pape rejects.

Having studied who the attackers were, he points out that Hezbollah's campaigns against U.S. and Israeli forces in Lebanon involved as many suicide bombers who were secular as religious. The same is true for the recent wave of attacks in Israel by Hamas and other groups.

www.cnn.com...




Hizbollah increases pay for suicide attacks from $20,000 to $100,000 after Israel returns terrorists bodies in "goodwill gesture"
Heil! Heil! The gangs all here - Israel lets terrorists return home after European vacations
February 13, 2005

MIM: As MIM predicted, the American offer of 100 dollars for terrorists to retire was just not competitive enough in the radical Islamist market . The terrorist group Hizbollah has upped the ante with help from Iran and increased the salary of for suicide bombers from $20,000 to $100,000 dollars.

Consumer research might help the US to gain a market share which they lost with Condoleeza's Rice's offer of $100 dollar pensions for retired terrorists while the going rate for suicide bombers was 20 to 25 thousand dollars at the time.

www.militantislammonitor.org...


July 26, 2006 by Deborah Passner

Hassan Nasrallah: In His Own Words



Since February 1992, Hassan Nasrallah has headed Lebanon’s Hezbollah (or "Party of God") as Secretary-General of the Iranian-backed terrorist group, reportedly receiving $100-200 million of funding from Iran and other supporters in the Arab world.

Nasrallah is virulently opposed to recognizing the legitimacy of Israel, terming the country a "cancerous entity" of "ultimate evil" whose "annihilation ... is a definite matter." As leader of Hezbollah, he has used its resources to foment violence in the region by inciting, supporting, and funding terrorist attacks on Israel, both by Hezbollah and Hamas.


and some more from the same article.


Nasrallah and Israel
Hezbollah’s attacks against Israel have escalated under Nasrallah’s leadership. In 1993, a year after he became the leader of Hezbollah, 26 Israeli soldiers were killed (twice as many as the year before). The group fired almost 150 Katyushas in 1993, and more than doubled that number in 1996 when it sent nearly 500 rockets into Israel. As a result, Israeli casualties from Hezbollah attacks continued to mount. In 1997, nearly forty Israeli soldiers were killed battling Hezbollah. Suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks by the group took a toll on Israelis, and the group was largely credited with driving Israel out of Lebanon in 2000, an event regarded as Israel’s only defeat by an Arab group.

www.camera.org...

There have been other attacks made by Hezbollah/Hizbollah in other countries too, such as the following.



November 22, 2005
Argentina’s General Prosecution issued an official announcement identifying a Lebanese national sent on behalf of the Hezbollah organization as the terrorist responsible for the suicide bombing attack at the AMIA Jewish community center (July 1994)


On November 9, Argentina 's special prosecution, which has been investigating the terrorist attack at the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires for the past 11 years, announced for the first time that there was solid evidence that the perpetrator of the attack was a 21-year-old Hezbollah operative.

www.intelligence.org.il...



Anyways....were you saying something?.....




posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 02:01 AM
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Confusing Hezbollah With Hezbollah


Originally posted by Muaddib
Anyways....were you saying something?.....

Hey, he only asked for a single link!


Meanwhile, I guess that addresses the claim that Hezbollah has never never been responsible for a suicide attack inside Israel.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by R3KR
Its why the isrealies dropped leaflets everywhere they bombed.
Did Hezbollah do this ?


How?

Is there a Hezbollah Air Force that I'm not aware of?



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Conversely, the claim that Hezbollah and the Lebanese government are united and that Hezbollah acts on behalf of the Lebanese government is in fact precisely the principle which justifies Israeli attacks on Lebanon as a whole in retaliation for Hezbollah's attacks.

Well first and foremost here is the fact that attacking civilian infrastructure is a war crime. If Israel wanted to view Hezbollah's attack as an attack from the Lebanese it should of said so and bombed Lebanese military targets, not civilian.


Originally posted by Majic
This argument is incompatible with assertions that Israel should limit retaliation to Hezbollah only since, as you put it, "Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government".

It's not incompatible at all. Israel should limit it's retaliation to military/combatant targets is my whole point. If Israel rightly recognized that it would be making things worse by targetting the Lebanese military, thus strengthening Hezbollah's power, that's it's problem. Just dont hit civilian infrastructure and civilians themselves in some hair-brained scheme to turn them against Hezbollah. For that is a war crime and the very definition of terrorism.


Originally posted by Majic
Ironically, though I'm aware you aren't a big fan of Israel -- and leaving aside the question of whether Israel should have retaliated in the first place -- it seems that you and others who tout Hezbollah's legitimacy agree with the Israeli government on this point.

"Tout Hezbollah's legitimacy" over what? Please be specific Majic, I dont find their tactics legitimate as implied by your statement and I've said as such many a time here. But what I do believe they have the right to do, as a militia and resistance movement, is to resist Israeli incursions into Lebanon which covers capturing Israeli soldiers ON Lebanese soil.

Thanks for the WATS Sofi!



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:44 AM
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Who Really Started the War Against Lebanon?
A team of Israeli lawyers are suing the Lebanese government for starting the war

A team of Israeli lawyers are suing the Lebanese government for starting the war. The projected multi-million dollar case, to be filed in US civil court, will sue for compensation and war damages incurred by Israeli residents and businesses. Attorneys Yehudah Talmon, Yoram Dantziger and Nitzah Libai claim the Lebanese government violated international law because it didn't stop Hezbollah's casus belli cross-border raid into Israel.

According to Attorney Yehudah Talmon, Israelis will also sue to collect money from Lebanese assets and property in the United States. "No group associated in any way, shape or form to Hizbullah is immune to these claims." Never mind if the claims are based on shifting boundaries.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Now it goes to the courts too, and I doubt it's over on the battlefield with Hezbollah refusing to disarm or leave southern Lebanon.



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Meanwhile, I guess that addresses the claim that Hezbollah has never never been responsible for a suicide attack inside Israel.

Not really, not one of the many links Muaddib provided states that Hezbollah conducted a suicide bombing in Israel, which was Stu's point all along. I saw quotes of alleged Hezbollah funding or training of Hamas but no mention of "Hezbollah carrying out a suicide bombing in Israel". I saw mentions of suicide attacks on Israeli soldiers IN LEBANON though and none after 1999 which is what I said previously.

As an aside, does any one else find it ironic that Muaddib would quote haganah.org.il of all places for terrorism related articles?



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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WOW!Very interesting hypothesis!I think israel would attack iranian plants if the u.s.didnt as they did against iraq in the 80's.The problem they face this time is having 2 destroy numerous targets instead of just 1.Also satellite photos show these sites well defended by aaa and anti-aircraft missiles.No small task in destroying all.Would u.s.take the job or jointly with israel??



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by subz

Not really, not one of the many links Muaddib provided states that Hezbollah conducted a suicide bombing in Israel, which was Stu's point all along.


Oh boy....


Hizbollah carried out attack: claim
February 26, 2005 - 12:04PM

Lebanese guerrilla group Hizbollah hired a Palestinian from the northern West Bank to carry out a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv, a senior commander of a Palestinian militant group said.

The commander, a leader of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, said Hizbollah sponsored the attack, which killed four people and wounded more than 50.


The suicide bomber carrying 30 kilograms of explosives blew himself up in a crowd of Israelis waiting outside a nightclub near Tel Aviv's beachfront promenade just before midnight on Friday, shattering an unofficial Mideast truce.

A senior Palestinian security official confirmed the bomber was recruited by Hizbollah.
..............
Palestinian security officials said they believed Hizbollah had orchestrated the bombing.

Hizbollah carried out attack: claim

Humm, wonder why the Palestinian authorities would say Hezbollah/hizbollah orchestrated the bombing...

What are you going to say now that in that same article an spokeman of Hezbollah/Hizbollah claims they didn't do it?... Hizbollah also claims that they are not a terrorist organization even though it is known that they pay suicide bombers, that they have raised the pay to suicide bombers and the founder of the group has said that suicide attacks are legitimate ways of combating Israel.... The burden of proof is against them...


Originally posted by subz
As an aside, does any one else find it ironic that Muaddib would quote haganah.org.il of all places for terrorism related articles?


Oh I am sorry, I couldn't find any articles from Ajazeera.com..., I also forgot that for some reason you believe Hezbollah/Hizbollah's claims more than what others say, such as Palestinian authorities, and yes, including Israel...

But why would Hizbollah/Hezbollah claim "they are not supporting, funding or recruiting suicide bombings against Israel"?.... maybe it has something to do with the fact that they have half of the world "believe they are not a terrorist organization"?........


(Mod edit: Shortened long link. --Majic)

[edit on 8/16/2006 by Majic]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Let's see what else do we know about Hizbollah.



Hizbollah 'is plotting to assassinate' Abbas
By Inigo Gilmore in Jerusalem
(Filed: 13/02/2005)

Palestinian security officials have received threats that the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, could be killed by Iranian-backed Hizbollah terrorists if he continues moves towards reconciliation with Israel.

Mr Abbas agreed a ceasefire with Israel and shook hands with its prime minister, Ariel Sharon, at last week's summit at Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

Palestinian officials sounded the alarm after hearing that Hizbollah is urging militants from the Islamic group Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank to continue to attack Israel.

Hizbollah 'is plotting to assassinate' Abbas

Iran also claims they are not funding Hizbollah anymore, but again the burden of proof is against them, and this is the obvious reason why Israel takes the threat of the Iranian regime trying to acquire nuclear weapons seriously.


(Mod edit: Shortened long link. --Majic)

[edit on 8/16/2006 by Majic]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Humm, wonder why the Palestinian authorities would say Hezbollah/hizbollah orchestrated the bombing...

What are you going to say now that in that same article an spokeman of Hezbollah/Hizbollah claims they didn't do it?... Hizbollah also claims that they are not a terrorist organization even though it is known that they pay suicide bombers, that they have raised the pay to suicide bombers and the founder of the group has said that suicide attacks are legitimate ways of combating Israel.... The burden of proof is against them...

Yes im going to say that Hezbollah said they didnt do it, why would they deny attacking and killing 30 Israelis if that is, as you claim, their raison d'etre? Why wouldnt they claim responsibility for it? They've claimed responsibility for much worse suicide bombings in the past.

Have you not considered that the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade tried to pin the attack on Hezbollah because if it was seen to have been responsible for the attack it would of devestated President Abbas? If you werent aware, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade is an acknowledged part of Fatah.


Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade

Palestinian National Authority Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas openly stated that the Brigades were part of Fatah. Israel charges that neither Fatah nor the Palestinian National Authority have made any attempt to prevent their attacks.

Also from your own sourced article it says that Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade is made up of "many autonomous cells", so the chances are that the bombing was carried out by a rogue Al-Aqsa cell (as the suicide bomber belonged to the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) and Al-Aqsa disavowed responsibility so as not to incur the wrath of Israel. Also since Al-Aqsa is part of Fatah, which was the ruling party at the time, a "Palestinian Official" would of also been from Fatah. Also you forgot to mention that the story you quoted is entitled Hizbollah carried out attack: claim, it's a claim not a fact.

Also can I ask how you presume Hezbollah managed to "hire" an Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade terrorist to attack Israel? The rather circuitous claim proposed in that article would either need a Hezbollah representative to either wire the money to the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade terrorist, in which case the proof should easily be forthcoming, or a Hezbollah representative would have to be in the West Bank. Now, Im not sure if you are familiar with the level of security imposed on travel to and from the West Bank but everyone has to come through Israel proper to get into the West Bank. There is no direct flight from Beirut to the West Bank
. So are we to believe that the Israeli authourities allowed a Hezbollah representative to travel to the West Bank?

I also ask why would Hezbollah go through an Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade terrorist from the West Bank to carry out a suicide boming in Tel Aviv? Why go to all that trouble, then to deny it when it's successful? Why wouldnt Hezbollah just send one of their own guys into Israel and blow themselves up? It just doesnt pass Occams Razor.

Where's this burden of proof you speak of? I see no proof, just claims. I also find your sudden faith in everything a known terrorist group such as Al-Aqsa says really comforting
Any more attempts at trying to show Hezbollah carries out suicide bombings in Israel?


Originally posted by Muaddib
Oh I am sorry, I couldn't find any articles from Ajazeera.com..., I also forgot that for some reason you believe Hezbollah/Hizbollah's claims more than what others say, such as Palestinian authorities, and yes, including Israel...

LOL I guess you missed the irony. The Haganah was a Jewish terrorist group that liked to blow up British troops in the Palestinian Mandate era. That you'd quote a website named after them speaks volumes of the hypocrisy of it all.

[edit on 16/8/06 by subz]



posted on Aug, 16 2006 @ 11:10 PM
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Israel's actions were so disproportionate.


REPLY: If they really wanted to be disproportionate, they could have, but at least they tried to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.


But the precedent has already been set by a pre-emptive illegal war which btw has turned out to be one of the worst blunders in American history.


REPLY: No...... that would be Somalia and Bosnia. (By the way.... weren't our soldiers supposed to be home by Christmas of that year?)


anti-communist paranoia akin to Mcarthyism


REPLY: ShakyaHeir, you quite obviously don't know anything about the above or you couldn't have made that statement. As to your other crapola about what Bush was doing during the attacks, it's the same old same old, with no logical thought behind it.


Can we please stay on topic? I dont care about President Putin, that is not the topic of this thread.


REPLY: Putin fits here, since many of the missiles used by Hezbubble were Russian, and got to Lebanon by way of Syria.


Remember the UN charter? It specifically forbids violence unless it is self defence and the UNSC is involved.


REPLY: Screw the UN. You seem to forget that Hezbubble and Lebanon has violated or refused to impose every sanction placed against it by the UN. How convenient.


Problem is, targetting civilian infrastructure is a war crime. Another problem is that bombing civilian targets to coerce the civilian population is THE DEFINITION of terrorism.


REPLY: That, alone, shows your support of hezbubble and therefore Iran, since Hezbubble is wholly owned by Iran.

It was Hezbubble who intentially targeted civilians in areas where no military members or armaments were around, with bombs filled with ball bearings to do as much damage to people as possible.

Now, as to your statement, above, from the 4th Geneva Convention:
"Protected civilians must NOT be used to shield military operations or make an area immune from military operations." So, that puts the onus of guilt in the hands of Hezbubble, who built a hospital to store weapons, used ambulances to transport troops, and fired missiles from civilian areas, then left, knowing full well the area would be targeted. Isreal also, in most every case, first dropped leaflets warning civilians of imminent air attacks.


After reading a thread about accusations that Syria might have a nuclear weapons program


REPLY: Boy..... is THAT old news. You mean the one in a hollowed-out mountain in Syria, with the 405 Iraqi scientists? ..... the same one he already gave up (because it wasn't his to begin with?)


We need a reason to attack Iran. We need to take over the Middle East.


REPLY: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...............



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 03:41 AM
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Sorry if this old news but America have prepared a pre emptive nuclear strike on Iran on the basis of a second 9/11 so they have the plans drawn up to strike Iran much the same way before Iraq and Afghanistan.

America will attack Iran its just a question of why they need to figure out before it happens.

www.globalresearch.ca...

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Argos]



posted on Aug, 17 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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Who started the war doesn't matter, it's who wins the war that counts.

So far we aren't winning a whole hell of a lot unless you consider Iraq on the verge of civil war and Hezbollah emboldening Syria /Iran a win.

Economically speaking, my adding machine blew up at the waste involved.



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 01:56 AM
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So what happens now? Iran won't abandon its nuclear aspirations. On the 21st Iran prevented UN inspectors from viewing its underground nuclear facility. The deadline on the 22nd will come and go.

Now is the time when things start to get complicated.



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 05:23 AM
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If the IAEA tries to stop Iran from enriching Uranium as allowed under the NPT then I think Iran is justified in walking away from the voluntary treaty. If an international agency told the United States it could not do something, with or without it being supported by a signed treaty - in this case not supported by treaty obligation - it would withdraw from the treaty and deem it inapplicable and irrelevant to the United States. Iran should do the same.

The IAEA is playing the attack dog of the Western World outside of it's mandate as nuclear watch dog. The IAEA has never once produced a report that says Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons research yet it is forcing Iran to halt Uranium enrichment. It is doing this because of the immense pressure being placed upon it by the United States.



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