Op/Ed: A Staged War And Precursor To Pre-emptive Strike On Iran

Originally posted by shots
Please visit the Source link to read all of what they have to say on the matter.

No problem, but... could someone please pass the salt?

Issues of reliability and veracity

MEMRI is operated by a group closely associated with the Israeli intelligence organizations.

MEMRI was co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser and Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, "both of whom were early critics of the Oslo accords."

Both criticism and praise of MEMRI should be taken with a grain of salt, since analyses of MEMRI are almost always motivated by politics, not the quantity or quality of MEMRI's work.

MEMRI has gained currency with most pro-Israel writers, as well as right-wing publications. sourcewatch

The Guardian is also asking questions about well funded, Washington based MEMRI:

The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem.

Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.

First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.

The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".

That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it.

To anyone who reads Arabic newspapers regularly, it should be obvious that the items highlighted by Memri are those that suit its agenda and are not representative of the newspapers' content as a whole. - Guardian

So. I see no reason to swallow whole the MEMRI sourced material or the Seymour Hersh material, but in my mind Sy Hersh just has a little more credibility than a multinational lobby group enjoying tax free status and access to a Washington rollodex.
.

[edit on 8/15/2006 by Gools]

Originally posted by Gools
No problem, but... could someone please pass the salt?

No need for salt :p

They gave all the dates the articles were publiched and by who. I guess you missed them huh?

[1] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 15, 2006.

[2] Al-Ahram (Egypt), July 18, 2006.

[3] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 15, 2006.

[4] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 15, 2006.

[5] Al-Gumhuriyya (Egypt), July 27, 2006.

[6] Al-Ahram (Egypt), August 6, 2006.

[7] Al-Ayyam (PA) July 14, 2006.

[8] Al-Watan (Saudi Arabia), July 18, 2006.

[9] Arab Times (Kuwait), July 15, 2006,

www.arabtimesonline.com...

[10] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), August 3, 2006.

[11] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 24, 2006.

[12] Teshreen (Syria) July 25, 2006.

[13] Al-Thawra (Syria), July 27, 2006.

[14] Al-Thawra (Syria) July 27, 2006.

[15] Al-Thawra (Syria) July 27, 2006.

Source

Imagine that not one of the sources are from a US affiliated paper

You can also access some of the articles in English if you are in doubt. You can start
here.



[edit on 8/15/2006 by shots]

I don't know if this has come up here or elsewhere yet, but...

I've felt that Israel's response to the kidnapped servicemen was way more than needed and more of a response than I can remember, that they or anyone else has done in the past in similar situations.

It seems to me like the Israelis were looking for a reason to start a war which to me means they must have had prior thoughts and plans to start the war. Which lead me to the following speculation...

Does anyone think Israel set up their own servicemen to be kidnapped in order to give themselves a reason to start this war? As 'bait' if you will? A false flag type operation?

Originally posted by mecheng
Does anyone think Israel set up their own servicemen to be kidnapped in order to give themselves a reason to start this war? As 'bait' if you will? A false flag type operation?

It's an interesting thought. It wouldnt surprise me, put it that way. It should also be reiterated that it was the Israeli troops who entered Lebanon, not the other way around. The troops were captured at Aita Al-Shaab within Lebanon as reported by various news agencies around the World until Israel forced it's account of events through it's media contacts.

There are a few versions of events. The one I personally believe most believable, in light of the topic of this thread, is that Israeli troops were fired on from within Lebanon as is per the case on that border. As cited by UNIFIL and mentioned by Hersh in the link provided in this therad, both Israel and Hezbollah haven taken pot shots at each other regularly over the 6 years since Israel withdrew.

Now it seems to me that Israel has responded to one of these pot shots from Hezbollah and sent it's troops into Lebanon in response. These were either killed or kidnapped by Hezbollah and voila Israel has its casus belli to implement this pre-arranged war plan.

I was going to bring that up as well. Here's a site that shows how the story of where the servicemen were kidnapped changed...

Where exactly were those Israeli soldiers when Hezbollah captured them?

5:41 AM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian originally reported "The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon"

7:09 AM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian had changed his report to read: "The Hezbollah militant group captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes along the Lebanese border on Wednesday."

4:13 PM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian had again changed his report, this time to read: "Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel on Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers. "

The original story made it out that the Israelis were captured in Lebanon but by the end of the day the story changed which such that it was Hezbollah that came into Israel thereby giving Israel even more reason to start the war.

Originally posted by subz
It should also be reiterated that it was the Israeli troops who entered Lebanon, not the other way around. The troops were captured at Aita Al-Shaab within Lebanon as reported by various news agencies around the World until Israel forced it's account of events through it's media contacts.

The truth is, it doesn't really matter where the Israeli soldiers were captured. Whether it was in Lebanon or Israel. Hezbollah has no right to capture anyone from anywhere. They are not a government, they do not represent either country in question. They are simply a group of fanatics that have their own agenda.

Hezbollah is the real target.
Its why the isrealies dropped leaflets everywhere they bombed.
Did Hezbollah do this ?

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by infinite8
They are simply a group of fanatics that have their own agenda.

Yes perhaps that should be the truth my friend. . . but with all the dirty propaganda that has been made into a big issue since the begining of the conflict we should also ask ourselves . . .

Whos agenda has been planned here to influence who.. . .

Now we can pretty much tell that nobody can be trusted not the Israeli side or the hezbollah side.

Originally posted by subz
These were either killed or kidnapped by Hezbollah and voila Israel has its casus belli to implement this pre-arranged war plan.

If there is bigger game afoot, it's likely to end up in our arses.

The whole idea that Hezbollah abucting IDF soldiers was a valid reason to level Lebanon's infrastructure to the tune of one+ billion dollars, displace close to a million Lebanese, kill 700+ civilians of mixed religons, and turn the Eastern Mediterranean into an oil slick is preposterous and an indelible testament to insane blatant cruelty of those in charge.

If this level of ignorance continues to prevail in Western foreign policy, while we serve up our remaining allies as cannon fodder, they better start learning the terms global boomerang and blowback, because they will be eating it for breakfast.

Originally posted by infinite8
Hezbollah has no right to capture anyone from anywhere. They are not a government, they do not represent either country in question. They are simply a group of fanatics that have their own agenda.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The IAF dropping bombs on Druze and Christians in a mulitcultural democratic nation shows us all that Israel never considered the Labonese government and Hezbollah as seperate entities. The Hezbollah are sanctioned, supported and hold positions in the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah and Lebanon: Myths and Facts CAMERA
The government of Lebanon has for quite a few years officially accepted and applauded Hezbollah’s attacks against Israel. For example, on the website of the Lebanese Army is a Nov. 22, 2004 document entitled “Independance” (sic) which lauds the “resistance” (ie, Hezbollah) and calls preserving it a “strategic interest” of Lebanon:

The national resistance which is confronting the Israeli occupation is not a guerilla and it has no security role inside the country and its activities are restricted to facing the Israeli enemy. This resistance led to the withdrawal of the enemy from the bigger part of our occupied land and is still persistent to free the farms of Shebaa. Preserving this resistance constitutes a Lebanese strategic interest with the aim of relating the struggle with the enemy and regain all the Lebanese legitimate rights achieving and at the forefront the withdrawal of Israel from the farms of Shebaa and the return of the refugees to their land (emphasis added).

Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah:
I Told Lebanese Political Leaders We Would Abduct Israeli Soldiers MEMRI

NASRALLAH: First of all, the government statement, on the basis of which we joined the government, says that the Lebanese government adopts the resistance, and its natural right to liberate the land and the prisoners. Okay, how is the resistance supposed to liberate the prisoners? It should go to George Bush? I cannot and will not go to George Bush. When you say 'the right of the resistance,' you are not talking about the foreign ministry. You are talking about the armed resistance, and the government statement says that it has the right to liberate the land and the prisoners. I am a resistance movement. I am armed. That's one thing. This is the government statement, on the basis of which the government won the parliament's vote of confidence.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Regenmacher

You got my last vote.

Very good post, we have been so brainwashed by the media and our government of who are the aggressors and who is the defenders that many fail to see through the propaganda.

As long as the US government takes sides in pointing fingers and tag who is who in the middle east most Americans will agree blindly.

Then when US is targeted because the results of bad politics and failed policies is easier to point fingers once again and claim that our nation is the Innocent targets of an evil aggressor.

But many fail to see that it seems like purposely planned to keep the war on terror going until the desirable result is achieve that is to invade Iran.

The lost of life is no an issue for the true evil behind the whole middle east affair.

Everything is about profiting from wars, death and chaos.

Originally posted by marg6043
Everything is about profiting from wars, death and chaos.

Thanks Marg...

Considering the current batch of leaders are fighting on the side of greed, they have abandoned the idea of good prevails in a world of order. They will now have us believe serving destruction and embracing chaos is better. It's time to get ourselves out of this nut house, before it falls in on us.

Originally posted by infinite8
The truth is, it doesn't really matter where the Israeli soldiers were captured. Whether it was in Lebanon or Israel. Hezbollah has no right to capture anyone from anywhere.

They actually do have that right. They are a militia and they have every right to capture foreign troops who invaded their territory. Lets not forget that Israel claimed Hezbollah crossed into Israeli territory and that they said that equalled an act of war. Does it not mean that if infact Israeli troops were the ones who crossed into Lebanon, which is what all the evidence points towards, that Israel was the one who enaged in an act of war?

Originally posted by infinite8
They are not a government, they do not represent either country in question. They are simply a group of fanatics that have their own agenda.

They are a militia and resistance movement created due to Israeli occupation. I think you'll find that it's acceptable under international law. And claiming they do not represent Lebanon is bizzare. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and they have every right to fight Israel if Israel crosses their territory or breaches their sovereignty as they do regularly with flights in Lebanese airspace.

There was more than just the abduction of two Israeli soldiers, Hezbollah attacked Israeli tanks (or tank, I can't remember if it was one or more) 8 Israeli soldiers were killed and two captured. Not only that, but to even claim that this was done just because of this incident is to dismiss the facts of what has been happening in that part of the world for years.

Hezbollah has been shooting rockets into Israel for a long time, and they commit suicide attacks in Israel, killing civilians in buses, restaurants, nightclubs, etc, etc. Hezbollah controls southern Lebanon, in fact it is the defacto government in that part of Lebanon, which I think is the reason why Israel is making such attacks on Lebanon, and not concentrating on Hezbollah only. The government in northtern Lebanon lets Hezbollah be in charge of southern Lebanon, and Hezbollah in turn attacks Israel, the Israelis see it as an attack made by Lebanon, not only Hezbollah.

I feel for the innocent people who has been caught up in this latest conflict in both sides of the border, but i can understand why Israel doesn't just sit by and let more Israeli people get killed without a response. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen, but it is a shame it had to happen at all. i just hope that this ends as soon as possible.

Originally posted by Muaddib
There was more than just the abduction of two Israeli soldiers, Hezbollah attacked Israeli tanks (or tank, I can't remember if it was one or more) 8 Israeli soldiers were killed and two captured. Not only that, but to even claim that this was done just because of this incident is to dismiss the facts of what has been happening in that part of the world for years.

The tank was blown up when it entered into Lebanon, it hit an anti-tank mine which was obviously not planted in Israeli soil. The Israeli troops were also killed when they entered Lebanon. They shouldnt of entered Lebanon as it's a declaration of war.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Hezbollah has been shooting rockets into Israel for a long time, and they commit suicide attacks in Israel, killing civilians in buses, restaurants, nightclubs, etc, etc. Hezbollah controls southern Lebanon, in fact it is the defacto government in that part of Lebanon, which I think is the reason why Israel is making such attacks on Lebanon, and not concentrating on Hezbollah only. The government in northtern Lebanon lets Hezbollah be in charge of southern Lebanon, and Hezbollah in turn attacks Israel, the Israelis see it as an attack made by Lebanon, not only Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has'nt committed a suicide attack on Israel since 1999.

Hezbollah

Hezbollah has disclaimed the use of some 'terrorist' tactics, particularly those that result in the deaths of innocent people. For example, although the group first became known for pioneering the use of suicide bombings in the region, its clerics have never been entirely comfortable with the tactic,[112] and it has not been directly involved in a suicide bombing since 1999.[113]

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Hezbollah condemned Al Qaeda for targeting the civilian World Trade Center, and it remained silent on the attack on the Pentagon, neither favored nor opposed that act ,according to what Nasrallah said.[114][115]

It denounced the Armed Islamic Group massacres in Algeria, Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya attacks on tourists in Egypt,[116] and the murder of Nick Berg.[117] Nasrallah, in a 2006 interview with the Washington Post, condemned violence against American civilians: “[I]f there are American tourists, or intellectuals, doctors, or professors who have nothing to do with this war, they are innocent, even though they are Americans, and it is forbidden. It is not acceptable to harm them.”[114]

It is not as clear cut as it's made out to be. Hezbollah is a resistance movement and claiming it's a terrorist group is no more justified than calling Israel a state sponsor of terrorism.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I feel for the innocent people who has been caught up in this latest conflict in both sides of the border, but i can understand why Israel doesn't just sit by and let more Israeli people get killed without a response. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen, but it is a shame it had to happen at all. i just hope that this ends as soon as possible.

I too feel for the innocent people on both sides. But lets not lose track of what Israel itself said over this conflict. The conflict was due to the kidnapping of the soldiers and it was aimed at Hezbollah, not the Lebanese people or Lebanon. Consequently nearly 1,000 people died on both sides because 2 soldiers were kidnapped. The Israeli official targetting policy has also been proven to be a lie. They were aiming at civilian infrastructure in contravention of international law with an aim at alienating Hezbollah from the Lebanese people.

Originally posted by Muaddib


Hezbollah has been shooting rockets into Israel for a long time, and they commit suicide attacks in Israel, killing civilians in buses, restaurants, nightclubs, etc, etc.

Really? Care to provide a single link showing Hezbollah as responsible for a single suicide attack in Israel? You can't, because they have never done it.

You confusing them with Hamas

It doesn't make sense to me why Israel would've wanted to start a war with Lebanon, while they were busy fighting Palestinians in Gaza. Recall, Israel was involved in the Gaza strip conflict before the Lebanon incident.

I think the conflict with Lebanon was indeed started by the kidnapping. Now, if it was planned ahead of time, the Israeli government could've been waiting for a proper pretext. Due to the cotinuing hostility with Hezbollah, I don't think it would've been too unrealistic to think that they wouldn't have to wait too long.

Now as far as motives, on the Lebanese side, Hezbollah may have just wanted to get more of their imprisoned fighters released, like they claimed. They may have assumed that Israel would be more likely to negotiate a prisoner swap, while still bogged down in Gaza. On the Israeli side, Olmert is a new, inexperienced leader, and he may have just wanted to prove himself as a military leader to his own people. After all, Olmert's state agenda is to dismantle Israeli settlements, and give the land to the Palestinians, and he's been lacking legitimacy to implement this policy, because he isn't a military hero. However, Israelis seem to think they lost the war, so if that were his goal, he seems to have failed.

You also have to consider the influence of Bush. As far as I can tell from media reports, Bush basically believes that the Iranian are evil, and must be defeated. So, if the war were to be construed as proxy war with Iran, I suppose that might have significance as a sorta test war. Israel's failure to win a decisive victory in the war could signal the US, that it isn't currently capable of defeating Iran. Presumably, the US will respond by developing new technology and tactics to counter Iran.

The other things, which most people seem to miss, is that France will be leading the UN force. If the UN force does really have any teeth, it seems easy to wonder if France just managed conquer south Lebanon with Israeli blood. A French presence in the middle east does seem to also offer the potential for creating provocation for greater French, and hence European intervention, within the Middle East. Could/would France invade/defend Syria?

Excellent research and analysis, subz.

Way above from moi.

Ed to add: Interesting - first the box said "You have already voted for subz this month." But then it self-corrected. phew.

You have voted subz for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by soficrow]

All these extreme measures must cease at once.
Greed, power and money are the real cause here.
How do we kill that ?

Band Of Brothers

Originally posted by subz
Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and they have every right to fight Israel if Israel crosses their territory or breaches their sovereignty as they do regularly with flights in Lebanese airspace.

Conversely, the claim that Hezbollah and the Lebanese government are united and that Hezbollah acts on behalf of the Lebanese government is in fact precisely the principle which justifies Israeli attacks on Lebanon as a whole in retaliation for Hezbollah's attacks.

This argument is incompatible with assertions that Israel should limit retaliation to Hezbollah only since, as you put it, "Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government".

Thus any attack by Hezbollah against Israel can legally be considered an act of war by Lebanon, and that does seem to be the principle at work here.

Ironically, though I'm aware you aren't a big fan of Israel -- and leaving aside the question of whether Israel should have retaliated in the first place -- it seems that you and others who tout Hezbollah's legitimacy agree with the Israeli government on this point.



[edit on 8/15/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by subz
They actually do have that right. They are a militia and they have every right to capture foreign troops who invaded their territory.....

They are a militia and resistance movement created due to Israeli occupation. I think you'll find that it's acceptable under international law. And claiming they do not represent Lebanon is bizzare. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and they have every right to fight Israel if Israel crosses their territory or breaches their sovereignty as they do regularly with flights in Lebanese airspace.

Subz you have got to be kidding me. Their territory? The Israeli soldiers were in Hezbollah's territory? Hezbollah has no territory. It's Lebanon's territory.

You think I will find it acceptable under international law? Who's Law? Are you kidding me? It is not ok for that to occur.