Op/Ed: A Staged War And Precursor To Pre-emptive Strike On Iran

The topic is: the "Israeli offensive against Hezbollah in Lebanon"!!!

NOT Russia, NOT the Iranian president's rantings, NOT the attack on Iraq and NOT missing WMD's.

Israel. Attack on Lebanon. Pre-meditation. Strategy. Outcomes. Pollitical fall out of said topics.

If you can't post about the topic don't post at all.
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Actually an article just posted, states bush as saying" no victory for hezbollah " and gives an account of what is about to happen...the removal of the hezbollah by the international peacekeeping force effectively shutting down the threat of that region, this whole senerio adds much credence to the emerging plan. so that Israel and the U.S. can focus on Iran, one nuclear cocktail coming right up!!!

Originally posted by stumason

Not at all. But with past expierience of you and your close minded, McCarthyistic paranoia tells me it's best just to let you believe what you will, as no amount of effort is going to make you change your mind.

Others, debating with has a point, as I've managed to turn a few that were like you. But the Dark side has consumed you too much I am afraid and any effort expended will be in vain.

...do not talk about paranoia, and in the same response talk about "those who think differently than you are on the dark side"..." and you are a savior to show them the way".... It shows who is "paranoid".... to say the least...

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

...do not talk about paranoia, and in the same response talk about "those who think differently than you are on the dark side"..." and you are a savior to show them the way".... It shows who is "paranoid".... to say the least...

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Muaddib]

If you couldn't see the joke, then fine. Can I just ask that you untwist your knickers as they are making you somewhat grumpy.

Last chance for people to get back on topic or warns will fly.
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Speeking of which, I posted this story almost a month ago: Israel Set War Plan More Than a Year Ago


[edit on 8/14/2006 by Gools]

Originally posted by Gools
Last chance for people to get back on topic or warns will fly.

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Gools, the op/ed is about the opinion of subz that all of the above is staged to make a preemptive strike against "Iran".

Let's see:

San Francisco Chronicle
Boston Globe
AFP
London Independant

And I just edited with a SFGate piece in my post above.

Yep. It's all in Subz's head allright

Read instead of attacking. You may learn something or just enjoy the mental acrobatics.
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I remember reading that thread of yours Gools, in fact I replied to it three times

What amuses me about all this evidence of pre-planning and waiting for any provocation by Hezbollah to unleash a completely pre-ordained total psychological as well as strategic war against Lebanon et al, is the poor Israeli spokesmen who are forced to lie about it all and then get exposed for their trouble.

New Yorker
The initial plan, as outlined by the Israelis, called for a major bombing campaign in response to the next Hezbollah provocation, according to the Middle East expert with knowledge of U.S. and Israeli thinking. Israel believed that, by targeting Lebanon’s infrastructure, including highways, fuel depots, and even the civilian runways at the main Beirut airport, it could persuade Lebanon’s large Christian and Sunni populations to turn against Hezbollah, according to the former senior intelligence official. The airport, highways, and bridges, among other things, have been hit in the bombing campaign. The Israeli Air Force had flown almost nine thousand missions as of last week. (David Siegel, the Israeli spokesman, said that Israel had targeted only sites connected to Hezbollah; the bombing of bridges and roads was meant to prevent the transport of weapons.)

So much for Hezbollah being the target of Israel and not the Lebanese people. Israel intentionally destroyed civilian infrastructure in an attempt to turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah. The Israeli's lied about it to boot.

Problem is, targetting civilian infrastructure is a war crime. Another problem is that bombing civilian targets to coerce the civilian population is THE DEFINITION of terrorism.

terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Can we expect Israel to be placed on the list of state sponsors of terror? It's so blatant now that its depressing.

Originally posted by Gools
Let's see:

San Francisco Chronicle
Boston Globe
AFP
London Independant

And I just edited with a SFGate piece in my post above.

Yep. It's all in Subz's head allright

Read instead of attacking. You may learn something or just enjoy the mental acrobatics.

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and how does all of that disproves that the Iranian president has called for Israel to be purged off the middle east? How does all of that disprove that every mayor political figure in Iran wants to destroy Israel? How does any of the above disprove that Iran has been working in a nuclear weapon program, claiming it was not, for almost two decades and now once again it appears they want to do the same since their main University is teaching all aspects of nuclear technology, and not just for peaceful purposes? How does any of the above disproves that senior Mullahs have said it is alright for Iran to get nuclear weapons and use them if the world has them?....

Subz claims that Israel is not "defending itself", that it is the agressor, yet how is a country to react to the fact that other countries want to see it purged off the lands, and all it's people killed?....

If there is such an attack on Iranian military sites, it is because Israel is not going to let it's existance be part of a game of chance, to the wimps of the Iranian regime, or any other, to want to destroy Israel, or at least incapacitate them, whenever the Iranian regime decides to do so.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Muaddib]

War At Home And Abroad

This op/ed seems to jibe pretty closely with my own perceptions of the circumstances surrounding this most recent conflict.

I also suspect it is part of a "wider goal" to justify a strike against Iran's nuclear weapons program. And yes, I do mean weapons program.

As for the quarreling...

There's no need for finger-pointing or personal commentary when discussing topics like these. It should be understood and expected that we will disagree on many, many things.

We don't disagree because some of us are good and others are evil.

Rather, we disagree because we have different points of view, different sources of information, different ways of interpreting the information we have and different motives driving us to disagree.

The idea behind comparing opinions on the issues is that maybe we all can learn something by doing so.

Putting one another on trial in threads like this one discourages that, and is thus contrary to the goal of Denying Ignorance.

So please, let's just discuss the topic, avoid off-topic comments about other members and see if we can learn something from all this.

Syria knowing that these plans are a reality, may be a reason why they have moved tanks to the border with Israel. I stated in that thread that Syria/Iran may be positioning for the strike they know is coming and or possibly a first strike themselves.

Originally posted by subz
terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Can we expect Israel to be placed on the list of state sponsors of terror? It's so blatant now that its depressing.

Well all of the large countries including the US are guilty by definition of terrorism. this also includes most people of most religions through history. Most have used terrorism, though sometimes it comes in different forms.

As far as this article and related articles are concerned. I am a firm believer, and have been long before the bombings of Hezbollah in Lebanon, that Israel was going to have to take action in some way against Nations and people that are determined to remove them from Israel. Yes Hezbollah is determined, yes Iran's ruler is determined.

It has been long known that Hezbollah was powerful in Lebanon and attacks from them were growing with time. As Iran continued its nuclear program, and stalled continuously about its nuclear efforts, Israel became more aware of the larger multiple front threat. Hezbollah in Lebanon, Syria, Iran. Iran's leader talking regularly about the elimination of Israel and Jews. Iran's rejection of Russia's offer to help with their nuclear woes. Iran has been stalling forever. Sanctions are too far behind and now the world waits for Iran's "answer to the world's nuclear question" on August 22nd.

This doesn't mean they drop the bombs today, but it does mean that all should prepare for the worst. If there is no preparation, Israel may find itself in a terrible situation. Say Iran tells the world it refuses to abandon its nuclear hopes regardless of sanctions and world opinion. Then what? More time passes with sanctions imposed while the nuclear capabilities advance. That will not be allowed for long. Israel will not allow its country and people within to possibly be eliminated. They know that if the USA, Britain, or themselves make strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities, there will be a major reaction by Iran directed specifically at Israel. This includes the Iranian trained Hezbollah in Lebanon unleashing all of their rockets on Israel from very close range. This threat could not remain in place. This "what if" scenario was to real and to close to home for Israel not to remove it. The deadline for Iran's decision is closing in and the Hezbollah retalitory potential from Lebanon was too risky. The had the excuse, they had the opportunity, and they knew the time was now to take care of an issue that really should have been taken care of a long time ago. Israel has excercised a lot of patience with terrorists in Hezbollah.

Its all a waiting game at this point. August 22nd looms and sanctions will be put into place. Iran will either reject their nuclear aspirations publicly and use what they have already produced to build a nuke in secret, or they will face sanctions and continue their nuclear aspirations until the bombs drop. Its one or the other. Iran will never be allowed to pursue this unmonitored and unmanaged nuclear dream regardless of the date.

If I were Iran's leadership, I would take what I already have and continue the development in secret. I am not Iran's leader, nor do I ever want them to have nuclear capability. I believe that many innocent people in Iran will unfortunately suffer as a result of this, sanctions or bombs. I can only pray for their safety and a brighter future.

Interesting that the Syrians might be getting toey. After reading a thread about accusations that Syria might have a nuclear weapons program I begun to think whether all these leaks about a dry-run for an Iranian campaign could just be smoke and mirrors. Whereas the real target is infact Syria, and not Iran.

Could all these leaks be designed to make Iran believe it's next when infact it is Syria who is next? Hezbollah would need to be neutralized before any attack on Syria, just as if it was on Iran. If Iran intervened and honoured it's mutual defence pact with Syria it would have to first get through Iraq or Turkey. Then it would risk fighting a war on multiple fronts if the Americans decided to play the opportunist.

An attack on Syria is well within the capabilities of Israel, let alone the United States. Whereas an attack on Iran with its 70 million people and modern army is a pure pipedream.

So could this Hersh article be a deception and misinformation? It wouldnt surprise me.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Syria knowing that these plans are a reality, may be a reason why they have moved tanks to the border with Israel. I stated in that thread that Syria/Iran may be positioning for the strike they know is coming and or possibly a first strike themselves.

Before we start diving for the bombs shelters, may I remind everyone that Syria has had the vast majority of their Army on the border for 3 decades? As is their capital only an hour or so from the border.

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by shots
Show me the plans, Show me the plans. All the rest is nothing but biased personal opinions

Aside from the fact that, yes, this is an Opinion/Editorial piece. There is ample quoted testimony from US governmental officials who say this is tied to a "possible" pre-emptive strike on Iran.

Should we never speak of this topic until we have a photocopy of the US battle plan Fed-Ex'd to us? Surely you jest Shots. Conversely, show me the plans for an Iranian nuclear weapons program

I agree, I said at the very begining of the conflict that this was going to be used by Bush, if not ordered by Bush to engage in war with Iran. With the new information coming out that this administration thinks Syria is "Farther along in developing their nuclear sites" we will take down anyone who stands in our way. As a friend and only ally in the region, Bush allowed Israel to take out any threat that bordered it. Now that Israel feels secure enough and international troops are on their way they are much more safe then before if all out war broke out against Iran. Hezbollah being a puppet of Iran will take orders from Tehran and attack Israel, now that is disrupted and Iran issolated once again and will face the wrath of our military EVEN THOUGH no one would support it! Well some will, but anyone with a once of common sense would advise against it.
Fake terror, fake reasons for war, the lies leading up to another war, election year... When will we make it end?
The only question that remains is not if America is going to war with Iran.. it is when? Before or after the elections? Will the Neo - Cons and the PNAC members call for another "Pearl harbor style attack" to rally the people with republicans? We appear to be in dark times folks, each passing month seems darker then the last.

God help this country...

I have been saying since the Iraqi war started that it will be Iraq, Iran, Then Syria. I was just hoping I would be wrong and the AMerican people would put a stop to it. It is not too late.

I posted this 1 month ago in a different thread:

"I have not read all the replies to this thread. It is obvious that this particular offensive was carefully plannned months ago...The purpose of this offensive is an ultimate massive attack against Iranian nuclear and missile facilities. The rest is simple window dressing... This attack is necessary for Israel's survival and will likely occur in the next 7 to 10 days."

I was incorrect on timing but I am convinced about the ultimate goal.


[edit on 15-8-2006 by cvsx]

Subz, I agree largely with your evidence, except I actually think the israelis can handle this all by themselves...

It seems obvious to me, that Israel was taking out hezbollah, to take out the enemy in their own backyard, and "knowing" that an attack on iran would need to occur, that was a correct preventitive action.

Then there is the supposed US attack on Iran...
who needs it?

Israel has a valid and defensible reason (self preservation) for a truly pre-emptive attack... to secure the nuclear facilities within Iran to prevent "being wiped off the map" as the threat by Irans leader stated...

We (the USA) would NOT have a valid and defensible reason... so it would be yet another international condemnation of our actions...

and quite frankly, Israel doesn't need us to go blow up some nuke sites for them, they are rather adept at that already...

so that is the only flaw i see in the plan... the "who" that attacks Iran...

This is very relevant to the subject at hand and comes from The Arab Media institute who I am sure are far more learned on the subject then anyone on this board is. It gives a completely opposed view as to who caused the conflict. You will also find a few that agree but the majority disagree with this op/ed.

Arab Media Accuses Iran and Syria of Direct Involvement in Lebanon War

The war between Israel and Hizbullah has revealed profound disagreement in the Arab world between countries that support Hizbullah and those that oppose it, headed by Saudi Arabia and Egypt. The disagreement was reflected in the Arab media, which published articles supporting Hizbullah along with harsh criticism and accusations against it.

One of the accusations leveled against Hizbullah was that the organization does not serve the interests of the Lebanese people, but acts in the service of Syria and Iran, thereby jeopardizing Arab interests. Many articles argued that Syria and Iran had manufactured the crisis in order to draw world attention away from the Iranian nuclear issue and away from the results of the investigation into the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Al-Hariri. It was also claimed that Iran was working to destroy the Arab countries from within by encouraging armed militias to rebel against the Arab regimes.

Please visit the Source link to read all of what they have to say on the matter.







[edit on 8/15/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the israelis can handle this all by themselves...

Perhaps they can, but do you think the US would let their good friend Israel be attacked without coming to their defense?

Then there is the supposed US attack on Iran...
who needs it?

We do. We need a reason to attack Iran. We need to take over the Middle East.

We (the USA) would NOT have a valid and defensible reason... so it would be yet another international condemnation of our actions...

Except that Israel is our ally. Even if Israel attacks first, we'll step up to their side and fight with them. Make no mistake about that. For one thing, the Christian Zionists demand it.

Christian Zionists lobby for US attack on Iran

Christian evangelicals who avow support of Israel based on a belief in Biblical end-times scenarios -- are whipping their followers into a fervor in favor of an attack on Iran.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]