Partial Birth Abortion

Arc,

You and I have spoken on the side before, so you know how I feel about women's rights.

But, on partial birth abortions I cannot be more staunchly against it. There are alternatives. And as long as there are alternative choices to saving a woman's life in the last trimester of pregnancy, there is NO logical argument for committing this atrocity. And that's what it is!

If the woman is at risk of losing her life, the baby should be delivered, there is no need to 1. scramble its brains, and 2. suck them out with a hose!

If the baby is born and is not viable, so be it, but give it a chance!

Originally posted by arc
What pisses me off about this act is there is no exception when the life of the mother is in danger. So basically when it comes to a choice between the life of mother and child - the child has priority?!

'Welcome to the world - your mother died because of you'

Fine ban third trimester abortions for those women who suddenly decide they don't want to go the last month or so (does anyone actually know for certain WHY women do decide to leave it so late). But don't turn pregnancy into a potential death sentance

[Edited on 7-11-2003 by arc]

You see, this is the kind of crap that purely pisses me off.
There is no medical reason for D&X procedures such as what is to be banned. If you are going to tell me that in order to save the mother's life, the butcher...er...doctor needs to dialate her, mechanically turn the baby around inside of her, pull the baby out of her, except for the head, and then use scissors to scramble the brain, and then suck the brain out, and then pull the lifeless little body all the way out, save it, I don't live in Loony Land or Insane Island and will not even entertain the stupidity. It has never been the case in this country when the mother's life was not considered in the event of a crisis, and the mother has always had the opportunity to decide who would be sacrificed in such an event. You really need to stop listening to the liberal bull# and try a little dose of reality as innocent lives have been slaughtered because of teh monstrocity of ultimate selfishness.

While we are at it, the vast and overwhelming cases of abortion is exactly that - selfish. It is women commiting murder for selfish the greatest of selfish reasons - in worship of themselves. As stated before, when a danger, the mother has always had the choice in this country.

Can I just point out one thing that I don't think has been stated yet?

The Partial Birth Abortion procedure itself, is admission by the medical professionals who in some sadistic, greed-fed frenzy thought it up, and who perform it that they KNOW they are doing something wrong when aborting a third trimester baby.

The act itself is self-evident that they should not be aborting babies that have so high a probability of being viable that they have to first MURDER it to ensure the probability doesn't bite them ass.

Think about it.

[Edited on 7-11-2003 by Valhall]

I need to catch up... OBVIOUSLY I ma very naieve on this subject... I had NO IDEA how they did this and if Thomas Crowne's accounting of the procedure is correct then I vote for the DEATH PENALTY on ANY and ALL DEMONS who perform it.

I can't beleive what I am reading here. I want to cry but I am TOO PISSED OFF

I don't CARE what ANYONE says, there is NO REASON ON THIS PLANET that this should EVER OCCUR... If the mother is going to die they can take the baby AND GIVE IT A CHANCE at living!!!!!!!!!!!

There is NO defensable position to the contrary here. IF you post an ATTEMPT at one I will IGNORE YOU FOREVER! YOU ARE A SICKO!

P...
m...

I agree totally springer. Now do you see my disbelief at people who support this practice?

I only support 1st trimester abortion
the spirit is to attached after that...

From 1st trimester until birth, a life, or the possibility of a life, is still being murdered

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Dreamstone]

Originally posted by Springer
I need to catch up... OBVIOUSLY I ma very naieve on this subject... I had NO IDEA how they did this and if Thomas Crowne's accounting of the procedure is correct then I vote for the DEATH PENALTY on ANY and ALL DEMONS who perform it.

I can't beleive what I am reading here. I want to cry but I am TOO PISSED OFF

I don't CARE what ANYONE says, there is NO REASON ON THIS PLANET that this should EVER OCCUR... If the mother is going to die they can take the baby AND GIVE IT A CHANCE at living!!!!!!!!!!!

There is NO defensable position to the contrary here. IF you post an ATTEMPT at one I will IGNORE YOU FOREVER! YOU ARE A SICKO!

P...
m...

How could I not take you up on that opprotunity

"If the mother is going to die then take the baby and give it a chance to live"....live off of what? Welfare, the state??? You have certainly made it clear in other posts that you wouldn't support this child taking welfare-tax-money off your plate!
I remember once when I was young, volunteering to help women get past the violent-christian-picketing lines into an abortion clinic. I remember taking a few elbows to the face. Gotta love the zeal...but I learned.
The next week I came back carrying a notepad and pencil. I started requesting information from the protestors to be used to sign them up for adoptions. You would be amazed at how quickly the "concern for the child" dissappated. These people wanted no part it...it was much easier to moralize and condemn...and that condition appears to be the same here.
Let us hope that we are never in the positions of those we condemn...and if we are, let us hope that we are around those more compassionate than ourselves.

Nothing is true...even your most horrible realities...everything is permissable...including your wildest fantasies. You are all absolutely free.

Springer, I have yet to find any of your posts that demonstrate an intellect worth reading. As such I will put you on my ignore list as well.


there is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

Just because you don't support abortion doesn't mean that you must adopt a child. Adoption is an answer, there are huge waiting lists for white babies, and substantial waiting lists for babies of other races as well. Childlessness afflicts so many prospective parents in this nation that it is disheartening, to say the least, to see people kill a child when others would take them in.

But what about foster families, and the stacked orphanages that we hear so much about you might ask. Well, this is another sad state. Unfortunately, and perdictably, people want a baby, and not an older child. Many of these children's parents are unfit to be parents, through a variety of reasons. And so the children go through the foster care system.

Make no mistake, even if the picketers out front were able to support a child, (and many probably weren't), being pro-life doesn't require them to adopt a child, just like being pro-choice doesn't require you to perform abortions.

I wonder VOD, if you ever had to perform a partial birth abortion, do you think you would change your mind? I would hope that killing a life that advanced would give you some remorse.

NOW I remember why I had you on IGNORE! Thanks! I couldn't even remember who you were.

*IGNORE ON*

Lates...
m...

Why get pregneat?

Cant you LIBERALS AFFORD COMDEMS?

Or doesn't WELFARE pay you enough?

There should be no abortions unless you got raped or if your life is in risk!

Spoken like a TRUE MEMBER of the HUMAN RACE,which one would assume wants NOT to kill it's own...

It FOGS my brain how the Libs come out against war because it "kills innocents" yet they slobber all over the idea of ripping a REAL BABY from its mother's womb after they scrambled its poor little brains with a pair of scissors...

No wonder America is voting CONSERVATIVE again!

P...
m...

We have heard the arguments, terrible as they are, against partial birth abortion. No one agrees, except a few detatched from reality, that this practice should NOT take place. The argument presented concerning the mother's health and welfare is a valid point, I'll give you that. However, unless you are or have ever been a parent, you wouldn't understand the willingness of a parent to pay that ultimate price for their child. The thing that I don't get about the thrid trimester threat to the mother's life is this..during this trimester if the mother's life is in danger, what does killing the child after its 90% delivered help the mother survive? Its not a medically valid point. If you would kill the child because the mother died to prevent it from drawing welfare, would you then not have to kill all orphans no matter what their age? Poor people have kids all the time who are never a burden on society because parents, good parents put their kids before themselves. have we ever seen a person worth a damn grow up from a rich pampered lifestyle? NO! Most people who have made great contributions to mankind have grown up in humble homes and been taught from an early age to make practical decisions to survive. To talk with them, they recall not having what the rich kids had but they have matured into so much more personally than those that were given everything.

I think what I'm getting at is a point that would hurt some but I feel that its the ugly hidden truth kept locked away in the cellar away from the light of day. Most of these partial birth abortions, I say most, not all, are done to simply avoid giving up the acustomed lifestyle of parents who don't feel they are ready for such responsibility. Anyone ever followed up on the parents such as described above who are too lazy to use birth control and use this disgustiung act to replace it? Anyone ever seen what the later realization of what they've done turns their lives into? Anyone ever been there when they realize what they missed?

I don't lay this burden on women, not a chance. Most of these abortions are the fault of the father who isn't finished sowing wild oats and doesn't want the (oh here comes those dirty words again) personal responsibility for his actions. Ladies of ATS, once a guy talks you into this, rest assured he's done with it and he's not going to be there with you in the dead of night when the reality of what was done sets in.

You did hit on a point that is verrry touchy. For sure, many of these abortions are due to monetary concerns, and fear. Though as stated in my earlier post, adoption is an option! It's despicable to think people would kill a child just because the wanted out of a situation that they got themselves into. (Does not apply to rape, I'm not THAT backward) But in a rape cirumstance adoption is an option as well, and why would you kill an innocent child for something that was none of his doing?