Partial Birth Abortion

I have stated my oppinion on abortion many times... just do a quick search through the threads. I am just chiming in here to tell you all that my oldest daughter was born at 26 weeks... a full 14 weeks early, she only weighed a little over 2 lbs, but she is fine today... she is in first grade, a straight E student ( They did away with the ABCDF grading at her school... it is Now E = excellent, S = Satisfactory, and U = unsatisfactory).

Plus she is the second tallest person in first grade... So trust me at the age they are murdering babies, They could DEFFINATELY survive outside the womb.

_____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

There was an article in a magazine here (OZ) about 27 yrs ago and it said that there was a restaraunt in NY which had fetuses on the menu. It was some kind of hip thing to eat a fetus with a certain crowd?

I think human life should be regarded as sacred and preserved at all costs. It's the aliens who treat us like lab rats because they are a different species to us and don't live in the same reality we do.

I think some people should be allowed to die if their suffering is too great and there is no way to alleviate it?

Contraception could be perfected with science and used throughout the world to negate the need for all the millions of abortions that are happening.

I find it fascinating that lovers can make love and dream of wonderful things and then a few weeks later take part in the murder of their unborn children. It's like life and death are tightly bonded just like love and hate.

Jesus created masses of food out of thin air and spoke of forgiveness and love etc, but then he lost his cool and cursed an innocent fig tree to death just because it didn't have any fruit for him to satisfy his hunger with. And he loved a prostitute like a sister and was very kind to women but turned around and called another sick woman a dog simply because she came from another tribe. So love and hate are just opposite sides of the same coin.

If you're going to make love then consider that you may also be creating a child whom you will hate or murder out of contempt.

I think the choice is the mother's, although she does become a murderer for it. That means there are millions of murderers walking amongst us.

[Edited on 03-11-2003 by Aztec]

I've voiced my opinion before on the subject of abortion - right or wrong, so I'm not going into it again apart from to say I'm only person ever to admit in these discussions that I have personal experience of the whole sorry subject (flame me, hate me, whatever - you aren't living my life in my body)

However when it comes to partial birth abortions (which I believe is the topic of this particular discussion), I believe they should only be performed as a last resort when the mother's life is highly at risk. As mentioned earlier - if you haven't made up your mind about whether you want a baby before it gets to that stage - for god's sake just go the whole way and then get it adopted.

Sadly a friend of mine and his ex-partner were put in the situation of having a very very late termination. The baby was so damaged it was virtually unlikely to survive much longer, and the mother was at risk at death. It was a horrible choice for the couple to make, but they had to make it. And no one who know's this couple has EVER accused them of being heartless murderers. They grieved the loss of their baby as much as any parent who has experienced a miscarriage.

which reminds me,
what's red and sit's in a highchair?


*runs like hell...*

Everyone knows partial birth abortion is wrong. THe president knows, the sentete knows, the house or representatives knowm and you know it is wrong. But guess what one person thought it was right and just soo happen he is a federal judge. After Congress made a bill and the President signed it into law and he declared it unconstitutional and boom it died. This is judicial tyranny people when one man has the power to sway what the popular majority sets in place. We cannot stand here and let this happen write, petition, protest, or even riot. We will not stand anymore and be the silent majority.

Valhall, that was a terrific post. As with many things, it is easy to speak in abstracts, but when faced with an actual human face the argument for life becomes one without question. You have a beautiful grandchild, and I'm glad she has grandparents as respectful of inncent life as you do.

Thats my point too man, the people who agree with partial birth abortion have no value for life.

What if you were aborted, what if your mom decided she didn't want you. You say, "Well she didn't". But what if. You wouldn't know any of this world. How many kids have you murdered that could have had a great meaning in this world. What if one of those kids could have come up with the cure for cancer at sometime in their life, or aids for that matter?

Questions to be pondered.

MAny liberals attack republicans because od our so-called "double standard" on life. First to go to war, but first to save the life of a child. A life is a life, war is just as wrong as abortion, or so the rationale goes.

But its not really. War is a fight between soldiers, and when innocent civilians get killed, it is often called an atrocity. One of the most oft-cited types of atrocities are the deaths of children. Abortion, and in particular partial-birth abortion is the murder of children. War is fought over a variety of issues, none of which I'll delve into now. Hard as it sounds, the killing of civilians, of children is incidental, it is not the object of war. Abortion has but one object, to extinguish a life.

Ask yourself this, in your mind, is the killing of a pregnant woman different than the killing of a woman who was not with child?

Well many of the same courts who allow this dreadful crime to occur are the same courts that charge murderers wit double homicides if the lady is pregnent

I'm so pro-life. That's anti-capital punishment--antiwar and anti-abortion. My personal choice as a woman is to never even consider it. It's murder. Other women have that same choice and I support their right to it. Afterall we are free, and in a free society you aren't going to agree with everything people choose to do. Having the choice is what's important.

Bottom line it's none of our business what a woman does with her body. To kill a child so close to birth is just heinous, and in a perfect world it should be illegal but we live in america and our rights are protected by the constitution and outlawing abortion is unconstitutional. This is not a choice for democracy and politicans. We don't get to weigh in on this.

In my opinion adoption is the only option for unwanted children--that includes rape. But, I don't get to tell another person what's right for their family and their body. It's between a woman and her doctor and in the end her own conscience.

First off............ I'm against abortions any way or form. With all the birth control methods available today there's no reason to get pregnant.

When I was in Nursing School it was required to work on the OB/GYN floors, in order to get proper credit. What I really hated was having to work with T.O.P.'s or 'Termination of Pregnancy'. We (us nurses) were not allowed to give any opinions and should not show any reactions to the patients wishes. Our job was to care for the mother, after the abortion. One married woman had five abortions. She and her husband did not believe in birth control. I met this woman and her husband, after her 5th abortion. That baby was placed in an emesis basin and taken to the soiled utility room. He was almost a foot long and perfect in every way. I felt really bad..... He didn't even have a chance. I held his little arm and said a prayer to myself trying desparately not to cry. I picked him up and placed a sterile wash cloth into the emesis basin. Than laid his little body inside covering him with another sterile cloth. I knew later someone would just toss him in the garbage, but it wasn't going to be me.
I wanted to become a nurse in order to save lives.

When I went back out onto the main floor the parents of this baby were preparing to leave. The woman had showered, put on her make-up and fluffed up her hair. The husband was ever so helpful.....assisting his wife with her zipper and gently placing her foot in a shoe. They even appeared happy. At no time did they mention the baby or even ask what sex it was.

I was crying on the inside, but had to smile on the outside. Asking myself how can these people be so cruel and selfish?

There is a serious case of tunnel vision running through this thread. Morality is relative. Let's put things in perspective here..

Where was the religious right and pro-life movement when the U.S was forcing sterilization on Puerto Rican women and testing the first pills?

There are a number of examples in post Civil War America of eugenic programs but none as effective and widespread as the mass female sterilization in Puerto Rico. Beginning in the years following WW I, a program was initiated by the United States government, the medical community and the local government of Puerto Rico, to name a few, which resulted in the unprecedented sterilization of 1/3 of the female population by 1965, and the continued use of sterilization on a broad scale by Puerto Rican women as a form of birth control (Presser 1980).

Not only was this island used as a testing ground for a population control program, but as a laboratory for the pill as well. In 1956, the first birth control pills were tested on Puerto Rican women living in government housing-they were 20 times stronger than the pills used in the U.S. 30 years later (Garcia 1985). Many women became ill, and as Garcia has shown, were completely in the dark that they were being used as guinea pigs for a potentially dangerous drug.

www.puertorico.com...

Furthermore, abortion has been and always will be a topic that serves only one political purpose. Polarize. And it's been working for some 40 years now. Facts are facts. Americans have the most back-assed approach to sexual education in the western world and it's apparent in our teen pregnancy rates...35 out of 100 teenagers will have a baby...? Most 3rd world countries beat that mark.

The U.S. still leads the industrialized world in teen pregnancy and birth rates - by a wide margin. In fact, the U.S. rates are double, triple, even ten times those of other western countries, which puts us at a terrible competitive disadvantage in the global economy.3

www.teenpregnancy.org...

If you want to stop abortion, then lets spend all this time and energy in finding a sexual education scheme that is of real use to our teenagers and reduce the need for abortions all together.

Originally posted by kukla
There is a serious case of tunnel vision running through this thread. Morality is relative. Let's put things in perspective here..

Where was the religious right and pro-life movement when the U.S was forcing sterilization on Puerto Rican women and testing the first pills?

Kukla,

This is a pretty unfair twist on a couple of levels:

1. The group HERE discussing Partial Birth Abortion, wasn't even born...almost to a person. I was one year old and I assure you...I didn't know. This generation of people (and polticians) that are now the large portion of the power (either by vote or by office) apparently are a little more informed than those of 1965. We are talking about these issues NOW, not in the issues of 1965.

2. This is the first I have ever heard of the story concerning Puerto Rico. I will go off and study this on my own to see if there is substance to this. I'm not doubting you, I just like to make an informed decision. My point is, in 39 years...this is the first I have heard of it. I will be glad to go and ask my 80 year old father, and my 76 year old mother if they know anything about it - because they are EXTREMELY staunch anti-abortion - and see if they were just complacently accepting of their government performing autrocities on Puerto Rican women. OR, you can take my word for me that when I ask them about this my mother will get this horrified look and say something to the effect of..."You've got to be kidding me." And my dad will say nothing and walk out of the room so I don't see him tear up, because he has a really big case of "old man emotions" these days and hearing these types things quickly upset him.

Yeah, I rambled, but the point is, in 1965 the "religious" people of the American populace were working and going to church and raising their kids...activism in religious circles was almost non-existent, and I ASSURE you, the average church-going American in 1965 did not have a clue this was happening. So lack of protests and movements against the government, if the Puerto Rican story is true, does NOT imply acceptance or complacency, but ignorance of the whole affair.

3. Lastly, this sums up points 1 and 2. We don't have to be like our parents, or my parents. Anc I am glad that we are not being.

Please don't try to minimize what people are vocal and active on THESE days, because our ancestors were NOT.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sorry, I don't visit blogs.
Had you smoked your .38, had you wanted to check out, you wouldn't be at the nboard telling folks about it, for whatever you'd be telling folks about it. The last suicide I went to, that guy wanted to check out. He put two bullets in his head. He wasn't just looking for attention.

By the way, owner of the world, come tell the neighbors to clean their yard up. Take ownership.

if you want to pass judgement, that's cool. would you like me to be dead?
doesn't change the fact that if someone wants to die, if someone wants an abortion, if the state sentences someone to die, it's no problem of mine. I've got enough on my end to not bother to tell people what they should or shouldn't be doing.

edit: you went to a suicide? and you're calling partial birth abortion bad?

[Edited on 11/7/2003 by MorningtonCrescent]

Valhall,

Firstly, if this thread was anywhere else than the mudpit, my post would've read drastically different.

Secondly, La Operacion is an excellent documentary on Puerto Rican population control.

Thidly, these atrocities were known at the time, as there were a multitude of articles in the major media. I was attempting to highlight the selective eye of conservatives, which is totally appropriate for the mudpit and this topic.

Fourthly, of course partial birth abortion is bad, but it is quite typical of Americans to only look at the symptons of a social negative (partial birth abort) and not the underlying causes. (ie..lack of good sex ed)

MC, why would I want you dead? I'm not the one who stated a desire for abortions and other homicides, it was you. I'm not the one who stated it would make more room on an overpopulated planet, that was you.

Having to go to a suicide scene as part of my (former) occupation makes me no more guilty of the act as having to go to any other crime scene. Had I taken part, then I'd be a murderer. Of course, you already know this, you just hoped readers would absent-mindedly read and think you had a good point.

Originally posted by mulberryblueshimmer
errrrrrrr dont most babies need to be at least 8 months along to exist outside the womb without help?

Earlier than that they need to be in humidicribs because their lungs arent as developed.

When my wife an I had our baby in he ICU, there was a baby that survived less than a pound.

I am against abortion all around but politically i can see rights for it. But partial birth abortion is plain and simple murder. The women who get them should be killed. and the baby should be cut out of her. We'll se who lives.

Those of you who are unfamiliar with the procedure, the baby gets its head put in a clamp and it head crushed.

then the basically yank it out and suck the leftovers out with a vacuum. All of this, with a living being that could very easily live on its own.

What a little cutie Valhall
What is a precious gift to some......
is a curse to others I guess
I will never be able to understand people like (the couple in my previous post)
Your little grandson could be the one.... who will
change the world, for the better.

I thought this was an interesting link.
www.elijahlist.com...

What pisses me off about this act is there is no exception when the life of the mother is in danger. So basically when it comes to a choice between the life of mother and child - the child has priority?!

'Welcome to the world - your mother died because of you'

Fine ban third trimester abortions for those women who suddenly decide they don't want to go the last month or so (does anyone actually know for certain WHY women do decide to leave it so late). But don't turn pregnancy into a potential death sentance

[Edited on 7-11-2003 by arc]