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What was the first language?

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posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by inspiringyouth
Im not positive but im thinking Latin most likely. I may be wrong here, but everything is deriven from latin so maybe latin?


I don't think it was Latin. Though most of the modern most-spoken languages are derived from Latin, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first. I believe the first written language was Cuneiform.

If you consider "clicks" a language then this may be what you are looking for.


CLICK sounds made with the tongue against the teeth may be the earliest form of language.

Alec Knight and Joanna Mountain led a Stanford University team which examined DNA from two peoples who still share the same complex click language despite living thousands of kilometres apart. Genetically, the San of southern Africa and the Hadzabe of eastern Africa parted ways tens of thousands of years ago, the analysis shows (Current Biology, vol 13, p 464). But each group has retained the clicks to the present day, combining them with their respective "modern" languages.


www.newscientist.com...

Latin is an Indo-European language, and I'm pretty sure that even Greek is an older Indo-European language than it. Hope I helped at least a little.




posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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According to most archelogists it must have been cuneiform or egyption hyproglyphs(bad spelling, sorry.). Here's some links:

Pandora Archive-First writing

History of Writing

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 02:38 AM
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Over 270 ancient civilizations have stories and historical records about the Great Flood

so what
we live on a planet that is 4/5 water which we know for a fact has been subject to fluctuating sea levels for its entire 4 billion year history
notably only one of those stories mentions a guy called Noah and it has been proven to have derived from a non hebrew source (i.e. Sumerian)
and crystal links is not a good source
in fact its about the worst one on the net
The bible is fiction
so its about time you stopped trying to use fiction to investigate history dont you think
we're living in the 21st century now
not biblical times
they came and went
and when they were here they were pretty crappy as well





posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 03:18 AM
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For the prize of oldest spoken languages:

Runners-up: Native American languages / Click lingos of the Kalahari

Winner: 'Aboriginal' Australian. Over 100 distinct languages, isolated from the rest of the world by a minimum 10,000 years. Some are said to indicate an ancient link to languages of the Indian Sub-continent. When I say ancient I'm talking > 40,000 years. You can argue that they don't have written language, but if you understood their artwork you would know otherwise. Sorry i'm time-poor hence no links, suggest wiki.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by Shar_Chi]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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the oldest indo -europian language that of course is not spoken anymore is tracian.
Tracians were homosapiens in europe, the only true europians by native, their languege was similar to latin.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by usaforever
According to most archelogists it must have been cuneiform or egyption hyproglyphs(bad spelling, sorry.).

Thanks for the links. However, hyroglyphics and cuneiform are systems of writting, not languages. Indeed, egyptian is not though to be the oldest language, nor are the early languages that used cuneiform (like sumerian).

sar-chi
but if you understood their artwork you would know otherwise

Interesting, but the artwork wouldn't necessarily reflect any changes in language. Also, if it has connections to the indian subcontinent, then that'd mean that its only as old as the languages there, which aren't the oldest languages either.

pepsi
the oldest indo -europian language that of course is not spoken anymore is tracian.

That doesn't make sense, thracian isn't the mother of all indoeuropean languages, from latin to greek to sanksrit and hindi.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Cosmic- Language is defined in Webster's as:

the expression or communication of thought and feelings by means of vocal sounds and combinations of such sounds, to which meaning is attributed; human speech

So sounds made by animals, apes included, are not language. The huge factor is the fact that brainy Neanderthal definitely had a hyoid and could speak. Where there is speech there is language. His predecessor Homo Habilis probably did as well.

Neanderthal lived a relatively complicated existence with many facets of life that would require communication. Cro-Magnon popped in some 35,000 years ago and was more sophisticated yet in his mechanical skills handy for tool making and processing animal for food and other products in a community setting. Art work and abstract thought were features of these folks too.

Neanderthal didn't dominate their niche without language and if there is any slim doubt that they did, Cro-Magnon is certainly the case for organized thought and communication. You don't create artwork and manufacture a myriad of specialized tools over a massive geographic area as they did by grunts.

It may not have been written but they had a language.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Cro-Magnon popped in some 35,000 years ago and was more sophisticated yet in his mechanical skills handy for tool making and processing animal for food and other products in a community setting

Cro Magnon is merely a description applied to the oldest modern humans in Europe
it is not a species in its own right and is a local name for homo sapiens sapiens

bit like you saying that a frenchman was more advanced than the rest of humanity
which we all know he isn't
in fact imo the reverse is probably true

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Cruizer
Cosmic- Language is defined in Webster's as:

the expression or communication of thought and feelings by means of vocal sounds and combinations of such sounds, to which meaning is attributed; human speech


Nice try Cruizer.

Dictionaries can give us only an abstract meaning. For e.g. entries for "man" in MSN online dictionary are:

1) an adult male human being, 2) an adult male human being with a particular occupation, responsibility, background, or nationality, 3) a person, regardless of sex or age 4) the human race in general, 5) a member of the group that comprises modern humans and their ancestors, etc. There are around more than 20 entries.

Is that a man? Even if you give his weight, height, eye color, etc. can any dictionary define a real man? The real flesh and blood man?

Take the entries from all encyclopedias for France and write it down. Is that real France?



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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ENGLISH WAS THE FIRST LANGUAGE

i'd be more than happy to prove english was the first language.

where did it all start? in the garden, right? what were they in the garden?

nude.

here, look in my mirror from a.d. to the b.c. :

N U D E [mirror] E D U N

the garden of EDUN where they were NUDE.


...........

Not good enough?

people think the Great Pyramid is older than the first language, english?

well then, babel on .. ..

the tower of babel in babylon? nope. Moses wrote about the tower of Babel. Moses came from Egypt.

What is the largest and highest structure in Egypt?

the great pyramid.

Who is accredited for it's construction?

2 names, one person:

KUFRU CHEOPS

KUF RU CHEOPS

mirror image of each syllable:

KUF = FUK

RU = UR (pronounced "your", but also the ancient name for earth)

CHEOPS = SPOECH

put each syllable back together in a phrase, after reversing them:

and KUFRU CHEOPS becomes:

FUK UR SPOECH

F*** YOUR SPEACH

the great pyramid is the tower of Babel.

And, the first language was English.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 03:51 AM
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tha tru O.G. lingo wizzy shizzle fo sho cuz Im tha Double O G. takes it ta tha dawg on tha street n you be mobbin' ho's on tha shore yall. shizzout ta da ladies!

Gizoogle.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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Cosmic, however anyone wishes to define language is OK with me but I simply cannot imagine Cro-Magnon or even Neanderthal for that matter, as being devoid of language.

Obviously we have no record of their language and certainly they did not possess writing but for them to function as successfully as they did it was manditory for their societies to have one or more languages to communicate what were relatively complex cultural values, mores and laws. Any society as sophisticated as even tribal groups have laws with leaders that do everything from invent them to interprete them and pass judgement on them.

The articles, possessions, tools and art uncovered point to organization and the conveyance of ideas. This cannot be accomplished without language. "uh, uh" can't be substituted for the verbiage needed to explain how an ivory needle is manufactured so articles of clothing can be assembled from the hides of animals slain with bows and arrows whose explanation of manufacture had to be detailed as well.

These peoples shaped bone, ivory, shell, and other non-stone materials. They had painted art including figurines. They transported and traded stone tools and jewelery across hundreds of miles. There was a standardization and diversity of artifacts of bone, ivory, shell, and other non-stone materials which evolved over time. They created arrows, barbed harpoons and spear throwers made out of bone, wood or antler. They flaked flint and obsidian knives that were heated over a flame to prevent cracking. They constructed shelters from assorted materials.

While Cro-Magnon are Homo Sapiens, modern humans of Europe- Homo Sapien Sapiens- are classified as being the last slot in the succession from 10,000 B.C to the present.

The single-origin of Africa proposes that modern humans evolved in somewhere in Africa and later migrated outwards. The multiregional theory proposes that modern humans evolved from independent hominid populations.

Cro-Magnon/Homo Sapiens seem to have entered Europe at the Bay of Biscay region and spred from there- opposite to logicial migratory routes of the eastern Homo Sapiens. Cro-Magnon's distribution is limited to western portions of Europe and North Africa, as well as a number of Atlantic islands. Eastern European types are different-generally shorter, more gracile, and rather smaller-brained than Cro-Magnon. That doen't mean they were less intelligent it's simply a defining characteristic. The eastern types averaged 5'4" while Cro-magnos averaged 5'11" in height. Our western modern man's art was better developed also.

If we perpetuate the erroneous myth of the slow and brutish cave man Neanderthal and continue to sell short our Cro-Magnon ancestors as too dumb to talk we show our prejudice and resentment by being incapable of reasoning that 35,000 years ago someone uttered the equivalent of "What's up, dude? Let's flake some spear points."



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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That doesn't make sense, thracian isn't the mother of all indoeuropean languages, from latin to greek to sanksrit and hindi.

All the other migrated at a later time, like the greeks, greeks were in fact friednly with some tracian tribes and made trades at that time, tracian isnt the mother of the indo europian languege, because the languege was not formed yet, the tracian tribes were present in europe but not all over europe, they were mostly present in eastern europe, the greaks were the first to make contact with them as they migrated, from there usualy most of the migratory population except the huns were friendly at that time, the indo europian languege sparked as a result of excenging words with one to another, to do bussines and trades you must udnerstand your partener, some settleled with the local population, some mixed with one another and thats how latin came to be.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
ENGLISH WAS THE FIRST LANGUAGE

i'd be more than happy to prove english was the first language.

where did it all start? in the garden, right? what were they in the garden?


you think of that because english is part of the lating brach, just like other langueges it came from pure latin, english is one of the newest langueges to make it on a wide scale, when I say new of course I dont mean last day, but compared to other langueges it is rather new.


[edit on 18-10-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 03:28 AM
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Homo Sapien Sapiens- are classified as being the last slot in the succession from 10,000 B.C to the present.

Homo sapiens sapiens are classified as being the last slot in the succession from 100,000BP to the present
you can't use BC in this context for several reasons the smallest being that Christianity does not recognise that man evolved from a more primitive form
the others that it is now more proper to use BCE (before common era) in a secular tense as Christ has little to do with science
and more usual to use BP (before present) in cases where the particular year isn't so specifically nailed down
Homo sapiens Archaic covers the period from 250,000 to 100,000BP

I'm sure Essan has something to add at this point



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 01:24 PM
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Had a typo there and 10,000 should be 100,000. I don't subscribe to the BCE stuff and I'm finding more and more archeologists and chroniclers of historical and pre-historical events have gone back to the "old way." The BCE business is simply more of the politically correct nonsense manufactured to appease athiests.

Paleoanthropologists don't use "archaic" anymore either. Archaic Homo sapien is what is now called Homo heidelbergensis of the 500,000-200,000 year ago era. They are nothing like Cro-Magnon. Neanderthal and early Homo sapiens lived at the same time but complicating things is the fact that in Indonesia Homo Erectus remained until about 53,000 years ago.

But enough hair splitting. The format of this thread was "what is the oldest language?," and it is of a certainty that language existed long before the previously discussed 6-10,000 years ago. Paleoanthropologists favor the possession of the hyoid by Homo erectus though fossil evidence is still lacking. There is no doubt that Neanderthal had a hyoid or that he functioned in a society that was complex enough to facilitate the use of language.

Those possibilities notwithstanding, I conclude that Cro-Magnon Homo sapiens sapiens of the western European region were the most sophisticated culture up to that point of at the very least 35,000 years ago- and that is conservative- and they had language.



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
ENGLISH WAS THE FIRST LANGUAGE

i'd be more than happy to prove english was the first language.


This one wins my vote for "funniest post on ATS"!!!! I loved the use of the misspelled Greek and Egyptian names for Khufu. He could have made it funnier if he used Khufu's real full name, but it might have been harder to work up the joke.

The others have been interesting posts, but this one just broke up the seriousness and really made me laugh!



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by CruizerThose possibilities notwithstanding, I conclude that Cro-Magnon Homo sapiens sapiens of the western European region were the most sophisticated culture up to that point of at the very least 35,000 years ago- and that is conservative- and they had language.

Well, except that "Cro-Magnon" isn't a group of homo sapiens. But it's pretty clear, I think, that there were some languages before even homo sapiens came on the scene.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by Cruizer
I don't subscribe to the BCE stuff and I'm finding more and more archeologists and chroniclers of historical and pre-historical events have gone back to the "old way."


I think you'll find the standard convention in archaeological and palaeontological circles (and, indeed, all earth sciences dealing with the recent past) nowadays is BP - Before Present. 'Present' in this sense is taken as being 1950.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 09:49 AM
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Indekkkoffer- "Well, except that "Cro-Magnon" isn't a group of homo sapiens." I'm not sure what you mean by that. Cro-Magnon were homo sapiens identified by their regional presence in western Europe. They aren't separate racially. Please eloborate.



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