Police state, only way to be safe

So Guantanamo and Extraordinary Rendition flights to countries that allow torture isn't mistreatment of a minority?

Raping and killing in Iraq and US soldiers saying they have been ordered to kill all military age males doesn't equate?

Originally posted by elitegamer23
gonzo you said it yourself-people accepting it as inevitable. I agree it is happening
how can we stop what you fear?
you jsut expect it to go away. ok great . read how my thinking about such has evolved. read the whole thread. i m not the nazi you wish me to be. the bleak future we have in store for us is not just going to go away.

like you said and i said , its happening. what can we do??? saying you are against such will not stop it. claiming you will lay down your life to prevent such will not stop it. its happening. if u truly cared, you would already have died to prevent it, its happening.

i never said we dont need a police state. i said we cant stop it. i said we better create the big brother we will have watching us , instead of the people you so fear creating it for us. that is different

damn phone woke me up, back to bed, gnite.
[edit on 15-8-2006 by elitegamer23]

[edit on 15-8-2006 by elitegamer23]

First of all elitegamer,please stop putting words in my mouth. I never called you or anyone else a Nazi.Secondly you misconstrued what I was saying. What I meant was that some people IN THE THREAD started acting as if it were inevetible.I myself am not willing to lay down and take it.If it is,as you say inevitable,then how do you propose we (the people) put our own "Big Brother" into effect?

Either way we have to confront the government head on,and since you've pretty much said that we can't do anything to stop it,what makes you think we're going to be able to confront it.One way or another something has to be done.I don't know about everyone else,but I for one do NOT want to become Big Brother.What happens when you get your own watchdogs,then someone in that organization abuses power?
Then another,then another,until we're right back where we started from.

Saying the proverbial fat lady has already sung on our rights,as I said before is defeatist thinking.Also,I harken back to one of your first posts where you said one reason we need a Big Brother is that crime is on the rise.Who makes the laws?
The reason there are so many criminals in jail is simple. Money. Not every "criminal"
is dangerous. Just look at how many innocent people have been jailed for something as harmless as marijuana.I believe someone said earlier......What happens when your the criminal,and they come for you?

sorry gonzo i wasnt trying to put words in your mouth. i know you didnt call me a nazi , i just felt like i was being treated as if i was a nazi by earlier posters, so i was saying it in general. i dont know what to do, but i feel we need to figure something out , because i think we ARE on the way to a police state/ police world.It is truly a bigger danger in our future then any sort of terrorism. it is terrorism. i guess the first step would be to wake up the masses. and quick. so many americans are impotent and ignorant to what truly is going on around them. to what theirs and their childres future has in store for them. its easier to start a revolution with the mind and with the pen, then with a sword or with a gun.id write more but i have to get to work. peace all.

Gonzo makes another good point.

A police state is all well and good, as long as one happens to agree with all of its (numerous and draconian) laws.

But what about those of us who, while we certainly pose no threat to society, indulge in a little vice now and then? Do we deserve to be carted off in the middle of the night and never heard from again?

And what happens when more of the little things we enjoy, like a cold beer or a violent video game, become criminal vices?

This is the primary problem with an authoritarian government; not everyone can agree on what should be legal. And with powers like you describe, I'm sure some old teetotaler would see fit to 'help' society by removing nasty things like alcohol or premarital sex from the roster of governmentally sanctioned activities.

America was founded on the idea that each of us should be able to do and live as we please. Even today, this is no longer the case. Moving us farther from this ideal is not the solution to our problems.

Originally posted by elitegamer23
sorry gonzo i wasnt trying to put words in your mouth. i know you didnt call me a nazi , i just felt like i was being treated as if i was a nazi by earlier posters, so i was saying it in general. i dont know what to do, but i feel we need to figure something out , because i think we ARE on the way to a police state/ police world.It is truly a bigger danger in our future then any sort of terrorism. it is terrorism. i guess the first step would be to wake up the masses. and quick. so many americans are impotent and ignorant to what truly is going on around them. to what theirs and their childres future has in store for them. its easier to start a revolution with the mind and with the pen, then with a sword or with a gun.id write more but i have to get to work. peace all.

I totally agree. I know,about time huh? Now the question is would people be allowed to revolt through the mind and the pen? I don't know this for a fact,but I would almost guarantee that the government has taken out it's share of revolutionary authors,and or personalities.

Also,what will it take to wake the people up? Words,or violence? I would hope words would do the trick,but it seems the conditioning is planted so deep that noone can get through to them anymore.As you said they are impotent and ignorant to what is going on around them.Which reminds me of yet another quote from V for Vendetta.

"If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost a hundred thousand people... Would you really want to know? "

I think most of the public would say no.After all ignorance is bliss.

All this aside,I meant to post this earlier,but got a bit carried away.Congratulations to your daughter on learning to read. Reading,in my opinion is one of the first steps to independent thought. Cheers.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by DocGonzo]

Are you nuts????????????????




A police state!!!!!!! I've already made plans to leave in a moments notice should the situation arise, like a police state!!! I've stored up enough supplies and food to last a long time. I've already picked out 4 remote locations should anyone stupid enough try to enforce a police state limiting MY freedoms. I have served in the military and have see what,'Big brother can do', ....police state IS NOT better. What works in the United kingdom doesn't usually work here.

well i have bad news for you cyraxx. we ARE on our way there.

it could happen before bush leaves office, it could happen in 20 years. we are deffinitly on our way there. the pawns are in place.

i think it will become completely obvious to a majority of americans after the next major attack on our country. that is when i see the goverment taking away alot more of our freedoms, and it could be irreversible by then, the impending police state will be created then or soon after. its depending on how bad we are hit , and we have been promised something to make 9/11 look weak.
it will be from terrorist or a black flag operation by the elite who want absolute control. u pick who it wont matter , it will get the desired outcome for those who want, and will, control us.

since everyone is so passionately against a police state, since so many claim they will die to stop such, why doesnt anyone make an effort to stop it. how do we stop it, or fight it. educate the masses first. we need an army before we take noticeable actions.

we need to figure out how to get the word to the masses. how to educate the weak minded masses. get the problem we may soon face into their consciousness. we must make everyone realize how bad the future is looking .we must beat it into their minds . i think this is the first part of the solution. how do we accomplish this. the answer may be right under our noses. or to be more exact , right under our finger tips.

the internet is the most powerful tool in this world right now. to stop this inevitable future that the elite hold for us we must harness this power . we cant wait till they make their move to grab all the power they desire. by then it will be too late. we cant fight a revolution with weapons. we would be massacred. the internet is our weapon. its our stealth fighter, if used right it is our hydrogen bomb. its our only way to get the word out.

how do we set out to use this weapon. how do we harness the power to educate all the people so maybe then we could have the numbers to do something about this impending police state. i have a few ideas , but id like to hear from others first.

now dont dodge out on this post and my wants from you people. it was all of you who said you would die for our country. for our constitution. for our freedom, rights, and liberties. many of you said you would die to prevent a police state.

we must be the paul revere of the new millinuim. we must start the revolution now before its too late. and i believe it all starts with educating the masses. TRULY getting the word out. i cant do this alone. it will take more then a handful of people. but once it is started, i think it will only grow like wildfire.

please reply . please take all this seriously. its YOUR future and your families future and yuor childrens and granchildrens future.

let me hear some of your ideas. or lets just admit defeat. peace.



[edit on 15-8-2006 by elitegamer23]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
You must be joking. Seriously. The attacks are planned by the government to do a police state. And you're thread is a proof that it is working. No FACKING police state or they'll see what we are able in term of REAL terrorism against the government forces.

Wow. For a site about denying ignorance you are ironically incredibly ignorant. There is no mass conspiracy to make a police state. End of story.

Just because politics are messy these days does not spell out impending doom.

you know if anybody wants a camera and a wire tap on every phone call and corner, then just go to 1970s soviet union or china in the 80's or germany in the 40's, those were not police states but were close, so imagine living in an even more controlled country, thats a police state. btw if you look at it, the US is very very vulnerable, right now a band of terrorists can easily cripple the US economy, the US energy, everything, just a couple of bombs in most oil refineries in the US, a bunch of explosions in the major power stations, a few racist looking bombings, and sooner or later you'll have either a civil war, or a country ruined for years. if it's done right it could actually dismantle the whole northamerican powergrid, maybe even stretching into northern south america, it's all full of chain reactions. imagine in one day having 10 dollars a gallon gas, electricity costs at 5k permonth, having to run outta power by a certain time, or seeing explosions in power stations everyday that cut off electricity during the day. and here you go sooner or alter the people will get tired of it, and do something unthinkable. so basically if you look at it the government could have possibley framed 9/11, framed that alleged plane hijackings, and all that # just to get the people to be more receptive to a police state. i hope people could brighten up a bit and try to see things in a broader scale and much more educated line of thought, instead of a carless manner and a "government is always right and it'll take care of us" because if you see what's on this website and elsewhere you could seriously start rethinking the "perfect" american government....

Originally posted by WeBDeviL

Wow. For a site about denying ignorance you are ironically incredibly ignorant. There is no mass conspiracy to make a police state. End of story.

you know what, i'm getting real sick of hearing that line. it seems the site's motto only exists to allow for cheap (and terribly hackneyed) shots like this.

and at any rate, i'm not so sure the guy with the bald eagle and the "God bless America" in his avatar is the one to be telling us there's no conspiracy here. you can say "end of story" all you like, but it won't end jack. whether or not you care to see it, the Federal government is doing everything it can to increase its power and influence over the everyday life of the common civilian.

even if they had nothing to do with the attacks, the administration has taken massive advantage of them. the Patriot act, the NSA wiretaps, proposals for biometric ID... all of this smacks of facism, and none of it is for the true good of the people.

elitegamer.... Wish I could take credit for this, but it lays directly at the feet of Thomas Jefferson ...
"Anyone who is willing to sell his freedom for security deserves neither".

Some of you need to get a grip on reality. Sure we in the US are becoming more of a socialist state. That tends to go with a burgeoning society and a huge, waddling government. Look at the governments that have been or are in place in locations like England. People have sluffed off responsibility for what they don't want to deal with. Any government is like a huge greedy pig. Give it a gallon of slop and it will try and get two.

Since a majority of people have become so indifferent, and plainly, simply ignorant about the workings of government, the government has taken over where before it was not allowed.

There are, however, many groups called watchdogs, for want of a better term, who are in place and are keeping the government in check. Sure the government is taking care of more and more, and soon, because people want it, like you, there will be a cradle to grave plan.

Instead of bemoaning the fact that you see Bigger Brother, or whatever you want to call it, as an inevitibility, it may become that, but if you make one stand, even a minor one, each day ... It will begin to affect others, and perhaps give them a reason or backbone enough to make a stand. Small amounts of voices in various places will begin to amount to larger voices. Vote, write to your elected reps. If you don't take action, then you have no right to gripe.

In the words of John Dillinger and charter members of the John Dillinger Died For Your Sins Society ... Lay down, relax and don't move.

KICK OUT THE JAMS!!!!

I can't believe that anyone would seriously want a police state. Aside from the Bigger Brother thing, there are other, farther reaching aspects, of that type of life that people don't consider. Who will pay for all this surveillance? Where will the funding for the personnel come from. Try your taxes. Some people would say that the current level of taxation would not be able to pay for all of this, and they would be right.

Police state is just another way of saying Communism. In a Communist society, do you happen to know the approximate tax rate on all income? I would'nt bet my life on it but it somewhere in the neighborhood of 70%. That's right about 3/4 of your paycheck would taken to invade your privacy, control your thoughts, run your life and make sure you never move above your born station in life. Come people, wake up!!!! This is exactly like deciding to let some stranger, 2000 miles away from your house, run every aspect of your life, and all for the bargain basement price of 70% of your pay. Please tell me that's what you want and I'll be glad to be that person.

This is the best thread i've come across in a long time. Its a sarcastic's person delight.

ROFLMFAO


Yes, indeed, we need a police state. We need protection. Yup.

Seriously I do not even see how we are becoming on the way to a police state. The wiretapping program had been going on for decades, and we have enjoyed quite an enormous amount of freedom since and still do now. Just keep living your life, and watching the government like us good people are supposed to. When something controversial comes up, simply challenge it and join those who do so as well. That is how things are happening here. This is the new millenium people, if anything we will see countries who even remotely resemble police states begin to dissapear as our future progresses. The world is becoming more exposed to the ideals of freedom and liberty everyday now. From Cuba, to China to even Iran and Afghanistan.

The vestiges of Tyranny and presence of dictators will be remembered in history as a problem of the old world. We are in a new world, and this current global conflict, although not exactly the right way of approaching it, is bringing these freedoms to people who have never tasted it.

Nothing to worry about here people, move along now.

so which is it? are we becomming a police state, have we lost some of our given rights in the last 30 + years, im confused how after the patriot act one and two you can say we arent losing our rights and freedoms and we arent moving towards a police state. what happens after the next major terrorist attack? just the simple fact our goverment wants to ban gays from gettin married is an obscene use of power and controll, add that to many other things and we are losing our rights and i think we are moving towards a more controlled society in the future.

and you cant say our goverment is trying to controll us more. it even trys to controll the people of other countries half way across the world
which is it people?

[edit on 16-8-2006 by elitegamer23]

Bro how many threads have been started where someone can not even state which rights and liberties they lost!

I mean # everything I did as a kid, I can still do now. Everything my parents had a right too, they still have a right too now. I have not spoken to one person in my life who has stated they have lost any of their rights.

I sure do miss the Air shows at MacDill Airforce base here in Tampa, but that is just a trivial recreational parade of our military might anyways, and not some God given right that was lost. As I said before, wiretapping was going on decades earlier, and drug dealers were still making deals on the phones!!!

they are not listening to us, they could care less. They are monitoring outgoing and incoming international calls to US citizens, and its only like a fraction of them.

What else can you say shows we are in a police state? I do not see one at all. Violent crime has been going down in this country, as well as gun crimes. # even the cops are getting a little friendlier. I went up to two cops sitting in their cruisers in the Publix parking lot earlier this year to ask them about the Airforce show, and they just agreed with me that they used to love it. Of course I didn't stay long enough to chit chat too much or they may have gotten antsy, but they did not force me to the ground and demand ID.

That is a sure sign we are not in a police state. When you can walk up to cops in their cruisers and just discuss a once beloed annual event, you know we are not under lock down buddy. Go try it. And do it with some confidence. Police are a great people that have to expose themselves to the #tiest aspects of human society for a good chunk of their life in many cases and the majority of them are still great people.

We are not on lock down, we do not have curfews, banned music, banned colors, banned clothes, banned discussions (aside from plotting to destroy human life), forced labor.

I do not see what you are seeing man. Can you point me to an everyday life event that you have lost as a result of the last five years?

what reason would you have to watch a complacent lazy person? That classifies about 90% of our population these days I would say. the other 10%, they are the ones that should be worrying right now.

dont worry, you dont have anything to worry about. You, as an american, are probably living the average work day life, with an average after work life, and never do anything about any problems that this countries population faces as a whole. If you truly do do something that conflicts with political interests/big business interests, you have alot to worry about.

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!
Thus were the founding principles of America, when you abandon your principles and disregard what millions have died for you have become your own enemy and betrayed those who died for you. My own family has a history of military, and what did they fight and die for? Freedom.
So now you want a police state.... you just took a *censored* on their grave and all the other millions who died. If you are unwilling to fight to the death for your principles then do you really believe in them? We don’t need a police state (even though we are well on the way of having one, so far its hurtling forth at us at a tremendous rate of speed) simply put nations who are founded on democracy, republic, and freedom of the people are always going to have trouble, get used to it. Now look at nations where OUTRIGHT police states were known: Nazi Germany, Gulag Russia, China (still going), African nations, Columbia, and the list goes on and on and on. What do they all have in common? 0 rights, 0 hope for the common man/woman, and all of them collapsed into TOTAL anarchy or are in a state of endless civil war. Is this what you want? I don’t think so, where does crime start? Not in the street but in the mind, when people have no job, or 4 jobs on minimum wage they NEED money and go to great lengths to obtain it, and thus crime is born.
If we take care of our own problems and stop badgering other nations on what they can and cannot do they will be less likely to strike out at us at any given chance. Its ironic really, the USA never had foreign terrorism till GEORGE BUSH JR. CAME TO OFFICE! All other acts were INTERNAL and "homegrown" so which is priority? Bombing the rest of the world into the stone age and then wiping out all our rights which so many have died for thus undermining what America is and was formed to do (protect freedom of the people) and betray millions?
Yes we all need security but we should never sacrifice our own freedoms in process!
"Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither!"
-Thomas Jefferson-
I believe in what he said, if you want to know what a police state is really like, visit Columbia or China, maybe even take a tour of Africa, and then you will know what you are buying into. I for one will NEVER support a police state, and we must avoid it at all costs, because that is what America stands for, fight for the freedoms we have and if it costs us our lives so be it. We will never surrender to ANYONE who wants to strip all our freedoms from us, and this is what makes America what it is or WAS I should say because technically we do have a police state so its time to fight back with the utmost fervor.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights is more than just a piece of paper we are taught about in school, its the guidelines for how America operates and should continue to operate, total freedom of the people, do, act, and say what you want so long as you do not harm others in doing so. This nation was not founded so we could just pass the bill to someone else and hide or so we could wipe out all of which people have died for (freedom) and claim it’s in the name of security.
I don’t recall a time when someone off the street tried to force their way into my home so they could attack me and tell me not to speak my mind anymore, but now that we have a ever increasing police state more people are facing this reality. So in fact a police state smashes security of the people, not secure it, because with a police state comes rampant corruption, cronyism, theft, embezzlement, rape, murder, torture, all the things you would think its meant to prevent. If you are not willing to believe this statement look back on history and what has happened from police states and continues to happen today.
-Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it-

Vekar

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Vekar]

Just a little clarification there Vekar, I am Colombian-American and know that the country of my parents birth is not a police state. The police corruption is a little bit more open there, in that you can pick up a minor drug charge and they will just ask you on the way to the station what is taking you so long to offer them money to let you go. The only dangerous thing about living there can be going from one city to another but thanks to America FARC is nowhere near as powerful as it used to be, making it less likely you will be stopped on the highway at a roadblock and robbed.

I honestly do not believe we are on the way to a police state. We simply elected a not so bright man to run the country and are currently involved in a serious war effort. I do not feel any threat on my liberties at this point, nor do I believe any of us will anytime soon. Police states are on the decline in this world, people want freedom, America is helping many countries realize that goal.

It has only been three years sine we went into Iraq, and while it is still a dangerous place, it has only been THREE YEARS! A whole completely different type of government was just forcefully removed and replaced with a new system that is not very known to the indigenous citizens. The are adjusting, and it may take a decade or more before it can be stabalized properly. That is what it takes to free a whole opressed nation though. After a few more years most of the insurgents and citizens will have released all their built-up anger from the decades of the Hussein regime's tyranny and begin to calm down.

I am still PROUD to be American, I love my country and what it is trying to do for the world, and have no doubts in my mind that we are NOT on the way to some police state.

[edit on 8/17/2006 by DYepes]

dyeps u said this,
Bro how many threads have been started where someone can not even state which rights and liberties they lost! - dyeps
well u answered this question yourself.

The wiretapping program had been going on for decades - dyeps

look here.....
en.wikipedia.org...

a federal court ruled it ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL
its getting bad now adays. one right was lost there!

and its only getting worse.

www.commondreams.org...

crap the feds could have been in your house, but you wouldnt know would you.

how is this not against the fourth ammendment?

usinfo.state.gov...


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


you have alot of trust in bush and co. how can you not see a pattern?