You got phones? You must be a terrorist then!

Could this be the start of the round up? I think it is such a weak claim to make. They sound like hustling business men to me. I see a future where terrorism is their excuse for all the things that make us scratch our head.

Terrorist hate us. Nobody hates me. I didn't do shyte to them. Terrorist hate the people who say terrorist hate us, because they are imperialistic ego-elitists.

Please remember; I can count on one hand the noteable terror attacks on our mainland in the last 100 years. I have yet to meet a man, even people I've consider truely evil, and it's not like freedom is what keeps them hating? It is oppression. Oppression is what births such hate.

Let us stop oppression, and we may begin to understand how to stop terroorism. AAC


news.yahoo.com...

[edit on 12-8-2006 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

The story talks about people buying close to 1k phones at full retail price and then making an excuse to sell them for profit? to who? who would be dumb enough to buy a prepaid phone at an overcharged price?

If they really wanted to make profit they would legitimize themselves and get a tax id, then they can get the phones at wholesale price tax free, to resell to the general public. There is no real business man that can hustle to make those kinds of sales. You dont even need an ID to buy a prepaid phone, any crackhead can walk to their local family dollar and pick one up for $20-$40 easily.

Do you think Wal-Mart prices are cheaper in TX than in CA? or anywhere else? and even if they were, do you think, after having shipped 1k phones you can still make profit after paying full retail price? You have to open up your eyes, you can never buy something full price from Wal-Mart and ship to another state to re-sell and expect to make profit. Not even on E-bay can you pull that off. Maybe on a couple of sales you can find someone to buy from you, but never 1k or even several hundred phones. If that was possible do you really think these guys are the only "geniuses" to have figured out this quick and easy money making business?

By the way this isnt the only story out there with similar situation, the only thing alike is that most of them have a "foreigner" name, you dont see any "bob jones", or "wang tuan", or "jose sanchez", you see the same middle-eastern type names all with the same excuse.

So I can see why they would be under investigation, owning 1 or 2 cells is not uncommon, but having 1k with an excuse you want to re-sell them? yeah right buddy. And on top of that, all having middle eastern backgrounds (based only on their names)

heres the link to the story about the first guys that were caught in OH, which is unlikely to be another great coincidence.

wboy.com...

[edit on 8/12/2006 by H34T533K3R]

Originally posted by H34T533K3R
The story talks about people buying close to 1k phones at full retail price and then making an excuse to sell them for profit? to who? who would be dumb enough to buy a prepaid phone at an overcharged price?

I apologize, but that is a thoughtless reply. Get a tax ID? ARE YOU SERIOUS? We have 15 million illegal aliens. That is a pretty large marketplace for prepaif phones. And where does it say that they wouldn't sell them for a profit?

And the coincidence in Ohio? I'm sure there are dozens more cases like this.

If a terrorist is going to strike in the US, rest assure that it has nothing to do with them hating freedom. It has everything to do with oppression that is happening thousands of miles away where you won't even begin to try to understand.

Open your mind and take another look at what happens in the world. Then attached a jury of fairness to it. Oh, I'm sorry, that would require that you place your sellf in the shoes of your so-called enemy.

BTW, I am as caucasion as they get, from a small town in ohio, so no claiming I am bias. I just have a thing for equaity, go figure...

AAC

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 13-8-2006 by mrwupy]

I apologize, but that is a thoughtless reply. Get a tax ID? ARE YOU SERIOUS? We have 15 million illegal aliens. That is a pretty large marketplace for prepaif phones. And where does it say that they wouldn't sell them for a profit?


AAC

If a person is going to be buying anything in large quantity, for the sole purpose of reselling it & make profit, then you need a tax id to purchase at wholesale prices tax free & then resell to the general public. It has nothing to do with illegal aliens, its really just about opening up a business and can cost anywhere from $40-$100 at your local courhouse to get your dba and tax id.

Nobody in their right mind will invest in hundreds of prepaid phones at full retail value, and then expect to resell them in another state to make profit, thats just simply obvious.

And there is not one single illegal alien making money in the U.S by purchasing prepaid phones @ retail prices and expect to sell them, to who? That same potential buyer can easily go to any local store, even the gas station and pick one up @ a cheaper price.

If a terrorist is going to strike in the US, rest assure that it has nothing to do with them hating freedom. It has everything to do with oppression that is happening thousands of miles away where you won't even begin to try to understand.

I never mentioned otherwise and I completely agree with you on this. And believe me im fully aware of whats happening around the world, however this post was specifically started about the cell phone stories.

prepaid cell phones have always been one of the main communication devices in many illegal operations, including the 9/11 thing. So its not hard to see why the FBI and other government agencies get nervous when some middle eastern guys purchase thousands of prepaid phones at retail price, then come up with a story about how they were wanting to sell them to make profit.

Not being from the USA...I don't know how your tax laws work over there...But over here in the UK, having a large number of Mobil phones (imported from EU) is a way to defraud Customs & Excise of VAT. (value added tax) Its know as the "Carousel fraud." Could something of a similar nature be going on here?

"Carousel fraud, which involves small, high-value goods such as mobile phones or computer chips, depends on the ability of criminals legitimately to import goods free of VAT from within the European Union.

They then charge VAT when they sell on the goods to the supply chain, but instead of handing over the tax to HMRC they simply keep it and disappear.

The losses are multiplied if the goods are then re-exported, allowing the final trader to reclaim VAT that has been paid.

If the goods go round in an elaborate circle the losses to the government multiply rapidly. They also effect VAT revenues in other countries if they are passed through other EU member states..."

Source
Missing Trader or Carousel Fraud Is Escalating and Robbing Us All Of Billions

[edit on 13-8-2006 by HappySmoker]

You can sell them at a profit if they are stolen!! which they most likely were. They do not have to be "bought" to be activated. Sounds to me like some kids stole some phones and were trying to sell them and our govt. once again wants to keep the terror threat alive by saying they were going to use them as detonators.

Originally posted by kleverone
You can sell them at a profit if they are stolen!! which they most likely were. They do not have to be "bought" to be activated. Sounds to me like some kids stole some phones and were trying to sell them and our govt. once again wants to keep the terror threat alive by saying they were going to use them as detonators.

No they were not stolen, the news stories say they were caught after they bought like 80 from wal-mart and apparently the employees reported the suspicious activity.

Isn't it possible that they were buying the phones that were cheaper because they were "locked" phones, and were using some method of "unlocking" them so they could sell them at a much higher price?

According to boingboing.net, thats exactly what it is.

As for why these men were buying cell phones, it is apparent that they were buying those special pre-paid cell phones that are locked into a pre-paid network. These phones are sold below cost because the companies make back their money by selling the MINUTES. (Give away the razors, sell the blades.) Recently, companies have found out how to unlock these cell phones to work with standard cellular networks. Thus, with a little work, a very cheap cell phone can be turned into a regular cell phone. There, apparently, is some good money in this. This also explains pockets in the story, like Wal-Mart trying to enforce a vendor's desire that no more then three be sold to a person.

It doesn't really make sense to buy 1,000 cell phones for terrorist attack purposes either, because the cell phones are mainly used as a detonator. Even if the cell phones themselves were used as bombs, dumping 1,000 phones under a bridge might get somebodys attention.

Recently, companies have found out how to unlock these cell phones to work with standard cellular networks. Thus, with a little work, a very cheap cell phone can be turned into a regular cell phone. There, apparently, is some good money in this. This also explains pockets in the story, like Wal-Mart trying to enforce a vendor's desire that no more then three be sold to a person.

Bravo man! That is some information I was waiting to get. You these guys were approached by FBI before. The FBI even gave one of the guys his card when they found them to be unsuspect prior to their arrest. AAC

My entire take is this: What proof does the Government have that they are terrorist? I mean what if, they are telling the truth? Isn't this the country where you are persumed innocent until proven guilty? And according to the news cast and one of the accused girlfriends, they were actually planning to sell them. I am real curious as to what the evidence is beyond that they had 1000 cell phones.

something tells me that if these same men bought 1000 bags of fertilizer, you would bash the government for cracking down on innocent farmers! the fact is that these purchases just scream "terrorism" and these men need to be detained until such a time as their backgrounds are clear and their story checks out. Surely if these men are telling the truth and are just buying these phones for sale then they should have no trouble providing proof of the existence of their business. They had to have had a table set up somewhere such as a flea market, or maybe even have a website which they sold them through the internet. I find it completely insane that if they really are just selling these phones that it is their first time doing this. You don't buy 1,000 phones without ever having sold a single one before. You always start out small and test the market. If they are legitimate salesmen then they would have done this and it would be verifiable.

Something else which I don't understand is why they took all of the packages apart. I read that the phones were emptied from the boxes, the boxes were thrown in a separate container, and the chargers were thrown away. Another suspicious thing is how they purchased these phones. In order to get around the laws/rules, they went to different Walmarts and purchased three phones at a time, paying cash. If they wanted to save time AND money they wouldn't have done this. They could have went directly to the manufacturer (in this case, TracPhone), and purchased a large bulk of their phones (1000) at a cheaper price and been able to make even more money reselling them.

I just don't buy these guy's story. And if they're telling the truth, like I said above, then it should be easy to verify. I just cannot fathom how the original poster can give these two men the benefit of the doubt in this day and age. I have absolutely no problem spending my tax dollars to put these two gentlemen up at our fine government facilities until such a time as their story is verified. Otherwise, please sign me up to be the guy who pulls the lever when they're sent to the electric chair. But of course that will never happen. Even if they are terrorists, because they haven't killed anyone or even taken part in any attacks (that we know of), they'll get a slap on the wrist and become even more radicalized during their brief stay in prison. If they're guilty it is my hope that they would be fried or at the very least sent to their home country (if their country is an ally), for some good, old-fashioned renditioning!

Originally posted by Rasputin13
something tells me that if these same men bought 1000 bags of fertilizer, you would bash the government for cracking down on innocent farmers!

Farmers buy fertilizer. Immigrants trying to scam some easy money buy cell phones.

I just don't buy these guy's story.

You know what, then I don't either!

AAC

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Surely if these men are telling the truth and are just buying these phones for sale then they should have no trouble providing proof of the existence of their business. They had to have had a table set up somewhere such as a flea market, or maybe even have a website which they sold them through the internet. I find it completely insane that if they really are just selling these phones that it is their first time doing this. You don't buy 1,000 phones without ever having sold a single one before. You always start out small and test the market. If they are legitimate salesmen then they would have done this and it would be verifiable.

It may not be their first time selling these phones, but I doubt that they would have any records to prove anything. I think they would want to keep the business as low profile as possible, out of fear that you'd get in trouble with TracPhone. This isn't exactly the type of business where you give everybody receipts and keep track of your sales.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Something else which I don't understand is why they took all of the packages apart.

You have to open the packages in order to "unlock" these cell phones. I highly doubt that you could change the cell phone's configurations without at least opening the package.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
They could have went directly to the manufacturer (in this case, TracPhone), and purchased a large bulk of their phones (1000) at a cheaper price and been able to make even more money reselling them.

The thing is, that if you're trying to unlock these cell phones to sell for a higher profit, then you probably wouldn't want TracPhone to know about it, because it hurt's TracPhone's profits. TracPhone sells locked cell phones, so it would be highly suspicious for you want order 1,000 phones unless you own your own store or something. Any large purchases such as 1,000 phones would be looked at under scrutiny by TracPhone and they probably wouldn't have allowed the purchases.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
And if they're telling the truth, like I said above, then it should be easy to verify.

Again, keeping track of sales or doing anything that can be verified is just asking to get sued by TracPhone. I'm not sure what the terms set by TracPhone are, but I'm sure they'd frown heavily on people who buy their phones and don't sign up for the wireless network, because then they either don't profit or lose money.


Also, any real terrorists would know that they have to keep a low profile. Buying 80 cell phones from walmart and having 1,000 or so isn't exactly keeping a low profile. The articles mentioned that the cell phone could be used as a detonater, but then you'd still only need 1 or 2. Why would a terrorist need 1,000 detonaters? I doubt a real terrorist would actually have any uses for 1,000 cell phones.

For all the haters! Hate first, ask questions later will get you nowhere in life! This is why we have a constitution, innocent until proven guilty! AAC

news.yahoo.com...

The reason why those guys got arrested was because:

"The remaining counts stem from allegations that the two men initially gave deputies different names than appeared on their IDs. The men also initially said they were buying phones for a relative's construction business, then changed the story when deputies asked for contact information, Schneider said."

And also having $11,000 in cash and an "old" airplane passenger lists and information on airport security checkpoints in their car.

All the cop ever did was his job then politics got into it.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by IspyU]

I pack a cellphone and a separate little Minolta camera all the time.

I must have a death wish. :shk:

Think of those guys as doing a "Dry Run". You get dumbies to go try things out, see what trips things up and what slides on through. They know nothing just do like good dogs. While you watch everything from law enforcement to public opinion pools. It's the dumb ones that get caught, for stupid things! The brains study, plan, study, re-plan..... That's what patsies are for....Dry Runs.

They just did dumb #, but who for?



[edit on 15-8-2006 by CasualOne]

War On Terrorism » Effective IMMEDIATELY – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 20/8/2006 by Umbrax]

I still dont believe their story even though the charges were dropped.

Although tracfone is a GSM carrier which uses other networks to provide service, the cell phone models they sell are really basic and really cheap. I suggest you all take a look at their website and see for yourself.

Most of their phone models even if you purchase directly from wal-mart, can already be bought unlocked on ebay at an even cheaper price . there may be 1 or 2 models which may sell for less (maybe $10-$20 difference), but after unlocking them, and after shipping them to a completely different state I still dont see how they would make profit. There are lots of people who talk about unlocking GSM phones that really have no clue about what that even means.

You wont ever be able to buy the phones in bulk from tracfone (someone mentioned this), the phones are manufactured by companies like nokia, motorola, samsung, lg, etc. You would really need to purchase these phones from a wholesaler for one of these manufacturers. Tracfone is a company that doesnt own their own antennas or towers, they "rent" antennas from major carriers such as cingular and T-mobile, they then use these antennas to provide service under their name, a lot of prepaid carriers do this.


There are many indirect cellular stores who sell unlocked GSM phones for various carriers and make good profit legitimately, and they do so by purchasing the phones directly from a source (manufacturer) , rather than a retailer. Anyone who is familiar with GSM cell phones, including vendors, manufacturers, providers, are fully aware of GSM capability.

Unlocking GSM phones is nothing new, ever since cell phones carriers started going GSM and away from cdma/tdma technlogy its been available. Think about any old phone you have had with a sim card, its mostly always been able to get unlocked and always possible. Im almost sure that its been more than 10 yrs since GSM technology and unlocking phones has been avlble. In fact just google "unlock GSM phones" and you will get hundreds of websites that will offer to unlock them, all you need is to provide the make, model, and imei (serial # which you can get by punching in (*#06#) and they will get you the code.

And if your really serious about unlocking GSM phones without paying a price, there are many forums and software that can get you started, all you have to do is research.


And by the way just in case some dont know, GSM phones are the phones with Sim cards in them, in north america they operate on the 1900 band mainly, but there are some rural areas that are 850. They mainly got popular in countries like europe, the US was using technology called CDMA mainly, but since most of the world is using GSM were slowing moving towards it.

If im not mistaken 1800 & 900 mhz are mainly other countries? at least with the major carriers.



[edit on 8/20/2006 by H34T533K3R]

A large number of phones could be used for a coordinated terrorist attack set by locational GPS. At a certain time, when a suicide bomber reaches a destination, well.
This scenario is similar to the 9/11 attack which was coordinated to achieve maximum disruption.

Originally posted by bothered
A large number of phones could be used for a coordinated terrorist attack set by locational GPS. At a certain time, when a suicide bomber reaches a destination, well.
This scenario is similar to the 9/11 attack which was coordinated to achieve maximum disruption.

What are you even talking about? Forgive me if its obvious, I don't see your point.