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Sinn Fein to sit at Westminister?

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posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Ok. So not a real danger politically, then. Just a mouthpiece for the IRA. All the more reason to let them you can mercilessly spy on them and keep them under surveillance...

...But do you see my opinion here? Do you think it would be alot easier to spy on them and dig deeper into the IRA if their guard was dropped and them let in?...

...In American terms, I would think it a worthwhile risk to say, let some Al Qaeda supporters into congress, feeding them minimal information and spying on them mercileslly, perhaps gathering valuable intel on them...

...Ceasefire or not, I still think it is essential to keep digging into and fighting the IRA covertly.

It may seem i'm attempting to put things out of context here, but i'm not. Just addressing various points you've made. Mainly about clandestine surveillance and infiltration. Although you should bear in mind that this is hardly a new concept when it comes to the IRA. It's one factor why armed Republicanism was hindered during the past 30 years or so. Before PIRA (Provisional IRA) adopted the cell structure in the late 70's, the IRA were rife with informants and infiltrators and they were having big problems, since British Military and RUC/Garda units were effectively stopping them at every turn. You should also note that the reason for a prior suspension of the Northern Ireland Assembly was down to alleged claims of the Republican offices being 'bugged'.

PIRA ( became the new 'IRA' after the 'Official IRA' declared a ceasefire sometime in the 70's - which it has stuck to ever since). were forced to the negotiating table because their armed campaign did not bring them the desired results, largely thanks to the efforts of the security forces in hindering their operations. Defeat or 'encumberance' in the field has really led PIRA to adopt more peaceful means of resolving the differences in Northern Ireland, not some new enlightened desire for peace and stability.

Originally posted by infinite
The Provisional IRA is no longer a terrorist threat, but the Real IRA (who do not agree with Adams and Belfast agreement) are still threat and are active (read my thread about Newry firebombing).

If Sinn Fein move back to an army struggle, their support would collasped and tight terror laws would get them banned in the UK and the Republic of Ireland would end of banning them too.

In other words, there is too much for Sinn Fein.

Not to mention that ever since the US State Department, through Colin Powell declared RIRA (Real IRA) as an illegal terrorist organisation in MAY of 2001, including it being illegal to support them in any way, especially financially; then it would make it very difficult for PIRA to re-establish an armed campaign without facing strong impediments from the US.

US State Department Statement

It should also be noted there is another dissident Republican group, CIRA (Continuity IRA) that exists. Whilst it was formed in the mid 80's, it did not truly emerge on the scene until the 90's, indulging in the usual ruccus. The difference between RIRA & CIRA is that CIRA 'allegedly' has a politcal arm, namely RSF (Republican Sinn Féin), although they (RSF) deny this and that CIRA is a 'military organisation' heh. However RIRA are more prominent and dangerous than CIRA, and that they've pledged as recent as 2003 that they will not go down political channels and continue purely through armed campaigns. There's also the INLA (Irish National Liberation Army) although i haven't got time to research and post information in this post.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
that the British government is siding Unionists because its afraid to have take them on. I think its unfair that the IRA got rid of its weapons, ceased all violence only to be rewarded with no localised northern Ireland democracy whatsoever. However I’ve never supported terrorism ether so at least the violence has stopped.

You need to remember that Unionists are loyal to the British Government, therefore there will be less conflict, despite having arms. Also in the past there were accusations of collusion between Unionist groups and the British Military/RUC, especially in terms of receiving arms and ammunition. It's one reason why they've been better armed. Because Unionists are 'loyalists', it's harder to turn around and say "give up all of your weapons and ammunition", even though things will only be resolved when both sides are fully 'decommissioned' as it were; which is an action that needs to be undertaken properly and fully.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
Frankly I suspect that Blair wants terrorism because be Al Qaeda or whoever like George Bush, Blair fancies himself as a wartime leader. It’s something most politicians seem to enjoy; and you only have to condemn violence against your people and all your people agree with you.

That's bit of an extreme view to take, especially since it was Blair who was more 'progressive' in helping to enable the Good Friday Agreement. Being a wartime leader only succeeds in giving one more headaches, i'd also think that Blair doesn't fancy having mortars launched at Downing Street.

I wonder with the recent Iraq War and general disillusionment with the government and Blair, that it has driven more extreme prone people to join the ranks of RIRA and similar groups?

Btw guys i'll post the link to a thread i started on 'War on Terror' regarding the IRA & Irish Republicanism, it's over on the ATS board. Feel free to join in!

IRA & Irish Republicanism

[edit on 16/10/06 by Flyboy211]

[edit on 16/10/06 by Flyboy211]

posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Flyboy211
You should also note that the reason for a prior suspension of the Northern Ireland Assembly was down to alleged claims of the Republican offices being 'bugged'.

- Some good points there Flyboy211.

Not to pick holes but it wasn't spying on republicans that got the Assembly suspended in 2002.

It was a supposed republican spy ring being operated by Sinn Fein at the Assembly in Stormont.
That caused the Unionists to threaten to destroy the Assembly completely and the British Sec of State then suspended the Assembly and associated institutions to prevent their complete destruction.
republican spy ring story

The whole 'affair' is a very murky one and so typical of what has happened here in NI over the decades.

Denis Donaldson (a very senior person in Sinn Fein at the Assembly.....IIRC he headed and ran their office there) was implicated as running this 'spy ring'.
It later turned out he was working for the British security services!
This, not surprisingly, caused the spy ring court case to collapse when this came out.....afterall was DD really spying for PIRA/SF? Or was had he set the whole thing up following British instructions?

Denis Donaldson publicly admitted he had been working for the British for around 20 years and fled (he was supposed to be left alone having admitted his guilt to his erstwhile SF/PIRA colleagues).
Denis Donaldson admits he was British spy

Perhaps not so surprisingly he turned up murdered not so long after (although Police on both sides of the border say it was likely to have been score settling 'independants' or dissidents that murdered him and not something done on the orders of PIRA or SF).
Denis Donaldson murdered

Wheels within wheels, eh?
You think you know about something and then new information turns it all on its head.

Hopefully the worst of those days are behind us and we move forward towards 'normality'.

posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 08:51 AM

The police and government fear republican dissidents are preparing to launch a major gun or bomb attack in a bid to derail political talks aimed at restoring devolution in Northern Ireland.

Warnings about the threat from dissident republicans are nothing new. They seem to accompany every significant political development.

But the police concern about a possible attack during the next few weeks is not simply a routine, precautionary warning.

It is the result of intelligence gathered over a period of time, which suggests there is a clear intent to launch attacks.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

I know, they tried and failed to set off that truck bomb (which the RUC luckly found in the nick of time).

i dont think this is a return to the old days, but its yet again a clear sign that some people in Northern Ireland want to still use voilence to achieve their goals.

I think Sinn Fein need to try their hardest to stop the Real IRA from going back to the "old ways". But it is true to say, that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are both not popular and are disliked by the Real IRA.

there is a rumour going around that some Sinn Fein members are on the Real IRA "hit list".

hopefully, the RUC and Army can stop any armed campaign.

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