Illuminating masons

Originally posted by hexrain1
the offer to post PROOF of anything on any of these threads is still open. you guys can't prove any of the information you post to explain away all the mystery around your rituals, all the secrets you guys have been keeping, passed down from hiram. that's got to be pretty interesting, but you haven't showed me anything that shows me that you guys have any true knowledge. all i see here is a personal attack on every thread where you guys divert people's attention from the subject. and you've gotten real good at what you guys do. i love how they say to know one ask one. it amazes me the contrived responses you've been fed to answer all of these questions. but then again, you've had a lot of practice... i almost wonder if that's all you guys really do in the lodge, is learn how to answer questions without answering questions... you keep asking for proof where it can't be found. if anyone could prove any of this we wouldn't be here. obviously you guys are proving to anyone that your not up to something, because people still frequent these forums just to hear what people have to say. it becomes evident to any person at some point, and i've only been comming here for a week, that no one proves things here. that's why this forum even exists. until aliens populate the earth or something, no one will be able to PROVE their existance. they can post a million pictures of UFO's and until A LOT of people at one time experience aliens, no one is going to believe 100%. so don't feed me that referenced link crap, i have freedom of speech.

i refuse to be silenced. oh and if you want to go back to my old thread, appak, which you also derailed and brought off-topic, you will see my personal experiences that i gave. i know you say it's heresay but all the things you post are as well.

from now on i'm only addressing people who don't launch a personal attack on me. you guys can talk your ear off but i'm not participating in this childish game of quote me trying to defend myself and get off-topic thing. tell people what you think you know, i'll do the same, simple as that, but no more bickering.

(I just know your still going to quote me a bunch and label me an anti-mason, that's fine. i know you can't resist.)

Well, I am going to quote you. And I am going to call you an anti-mason, because from what you've said since you came to ATS, you are. Generally, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when you go around making accusations about things you can't prove. And honestly, I really don't want to hear about your "free speech" and "I don't have to prove anything because it can't be proven, that's the point". Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? Of course no one can prove aliens exist, but what they can do is offer reasonable doubt based on evidence, which again, you always seem to lack. This "referencable link crap" that you seem to have such a problem with, is what gets people to take you seriously, which you seem to truly desire.
As far as your other thread, you keep addressing Appak as derailing it, taking it off subject...etc. You haven't addressed me yet. I countered your claims on Geomancy, and again, I have yet to be answered. It sickens me to see hypocritical people harping on others about skirting the matters at hand, sidestepping, and whatnot. If you want to discuss Geomancy and Freemasons, well, I've been waiting for some time.
I am going to quote you again, as this is my favorite one.

you keep asking for proof where it can't be found. if anyone could prove any of this we wouldn't be here

What a croc. You come to a site that is designed for intelligent discussion, make wild claims and accusations against an order you obviously know nothing about, and then get all defensive when someone asks you to support yourself? Are you serious? We should feel bad and let up because, "none of this can be proven anyway"? How do you expect anyone to listen to your "truth" when you have nothing to make it seem truthful?

Guess what, my local mailman is in league with a necromancer with plans to raise the dead pets of my neighborhood and enslave the city. Can I prove it? Well hell no! What do you want from me? This kind of thing can't be proven, but it doesn't have to be! And I don't see why you are attacking me for it!

See the pattern here? If you use the "referencable link crap" everyone keeps referring you to, your "truth" might seem a bit more plausible to those of us who thrive on research and facts. Unless you can provide even a shred of evidence for yourself, your arguments are worthless. Now understand, I am not asking you to prove your entire theory beyond the shadow of a doubt, because, as you love to remind us all, this is hardly possible or the point of a theory. What I would expect, is just a little bit of a trail to tie in your theories to something tangible. Otherwise you're just grasping at straws. Most people with half a brain don't like that. Especially when you are going to insult them and make crazy accusations with nothing to support yourself.

Originally posted by hexrain1
the offer to post PROOF of anything on any of these threads is still open. you guys can't prove any of the information you post to explain away all the mystery around your rituals,

hexrain [sigh]

WHAT mysteries? What do you want to know? The degrees teach various moral lessons. Here's an excellent example from the Grand Lodge of California for the degree of Master Mason

www.freemason.org...

The symbolism of the Master Mason Degree and it's significant teachings are summed up very nicely there. The other degrees have similar lessons (some degrees have the SAME lessons, just presented in a different way) There simply aren't any nefarious meetings of Masons plotting to take over something or to infiltrate the Knights of Pythias or the Moose Lodge. Ask a specific question and someone, will surely try to answer it.

all the secrets you guys have been keeping, passed down from hiram.

Hiram died a few thousand years ago. Masonry started (despite what some say) in 1717. Certainly it existed before then, but not long before then. Not in the "big picture" any way.

that's got to be pretty interesting, but you haven't showed me anything that shows me that you guys have any true knowledge.

The link to the Master Mason explanation above will tell you everything there is to know and even what Hiram's symbolic significance is. I assure you. And, honestly, if you're not a Mason, it's not all that interesting. Even to some Masons, it's not very interesting.

all i see here is a personal attack on every thread where you guys divert people's attention from the subject. and you've gotten real good at what you guys do. i love how they say to know one ask one. it amazes me the contrived responses you've been fed to answer all of these questions. but then again, you've had a lot of practice.

That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one.

i almost wonder if that's all you guys really do in the lodge, is learn how to answer questions without answering questions.

No, that's what politicians are taught in politician school.

you keep asking for proof where it can't be found. if anyone could prove any of this we wouldn't be here. obviously you guys are proving to anyone that your not up to something, because people still frequent these forums just to hear what people have to say.

Actually a good number of people frequent these forums to post wildly speculated theories with no substance. I frequent it to be amused (and sometimes amazed) at the utter ridiculousness some people post as "fact"

it becomes evident to any person at some point, and i've only been comming here for a week, that no one proves things here.

Sorry to disappoint you. Besides the majority of those who post atrocious absurdities about Masonry have already decided that it is true and wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the posteriormost.

until aliens populate the earth or something, no one will be able to PROVE their existance. they can post a million pictures of UFO's and until A LOT of people at one time experience aliens, no one is going to believe 100%.

True enough, but even then some would write it off as "mass hysteria"

so don't feed me that referenced link crap,

Yeah, we would prefer that you continue to speculate and not bother with references. Writers do that. It's called "Fiction" Those who use references (you know "foot-notes" "end-notes" etc. That's called "Research"

i have freedom of speech.

As does EVERYONE on this forum, whether you like what they say or not.

i refuse to be silenced. oh and if you want to go back to my old thread, appak, which you also derailed and brought off-topic, you will see my personal experiences that i gave.

Bully for you.

i know you say it's heresay but all the things you post are as well.

You're exactly right. I have received NUMEROUS degrees in Freemasonry. All the Craft Lodge Degrees, all the Scottish Rite Degrees, all the York Rite Degrees and a ton of invitational and side-degrees. It's obvious I know NOTHING about Freemasonry. I'm just a dumb-ass, huh? Again, I quote my daughter Patricia, "whatever"

from now on i'm only addressing people who don't launch a personal attack on me.

I'm not, nor would I, personally attack you. I can't help it if you don't like being taken to task for posting unsubstantiated claims as "pure fact.'

I once heard the moon was made of green cheese, so who's to say it's not? Oh, the astronauts who've actually BEEN there? Well, several of them were Freemasons so it must be a lie. [sigh]

you guys can talk your ear off but i'm not participating in this childish game of quote me trying to defend myself and get off-topic thing. tell people what you think you know, i'll do the same, simple as that, but no more bickering.

I didn't know we WERE bickering. I thought we were discussing. That's what I'm doing anyway. Sorry you don't like the manner of doing it. It's just my style. Feel free to put me on "ignore" but I'll keep posting here just like EVERY member has the right to do.

(I just know your still going to quote me a bunch and label me an anti-mason, that's fine. i know you can't resist.)

Quoting you is a way of responding directly to what you say and keep the level of confusion down. It's not meant to belittle you or make you look foolish. No one will help you do that. And Anti-Masons are typically those who think Masonry is an evil force and should be stopped. I don't know if you fall into that category or not, but if you do, you have plenty of company. But there are plenty of Masons out there willing to stand up and respond to any outright lies told about the membership.

Call it a hobby.

Jezus Christ, First i started to say not all masons are evil, then i asked questions about masonry, witch i before today, knew absolutaly nothing about, accept offroucse claims made on this site and some movie clips witch seem kinda plausable, and now the bashing begins....AGAIN.. please, people ...PLEASE stop that...tnq

Now again, i watched some movies again, and i still have lots of questions

1. why did any of you join, and how, i dont mean rituals, but like because of somebody or something, you know.
2. could it be pausible that a form of illuminati still exsists in masonry?
3. coul it be posible you do not know of a form of evil inside masonry?
4. could it be that some other cult uses the name freemasonry and THOSE are the ones that are evil??
5. The symbols you use, what do they mean??
6. the symbols, could they have been addopted or formed out of another evil society like illuminati??
7. hexrain1 says his friend got mollested in freemasonry, somebody posted that this could not be and that the ones would be kicked out of masonry, witch brings me back to the first couple of questions, cause it could verry well be, and him saying so could be as good a word that i take of your word, so please answer that
8. why are the symbols used in your society so often found on other stuff??
9. hexrain made me wonder about one thing, do you actually know more of this world then us?
10. Why are masons almost always subject to evil...ehm...no i mean, why are people always comparing you to evil things(ow god, i dont know how to put this)
Why do people always compare masonry to evil things??, also a question i love to be answered by hexrain, if you still want to that is.
11. could there be a remote possibility that you actually are being brainwashed in some way or another, cause you probably wouldn't know it.
12. have you EVER, EVERRRR noticed ANYTHING strange in some masonic lodge or heard something strange or was there anything strange said or SOMETHING, like somebody died or something under strange circemstances(dutch schooling at its best:s i tryd though)

you got to understand, a lot of things are so coinsidental that a lot of people think that there got to be something going on, and i have to say i am one of them, not thinking all masons are evil, but there is SOMETHING going on.
And i completely understan hexrain1, his friends got molested, by masons, my mother got molested by her own brother and father, i often dream about killing them softly and hurting them hard, so i understand how he feels.
But hexrain, please, just ask questions, if you don't agree with them fine, you can post it offcourse, then you just ask more questions, if something is up, somebody is bound to make a mistake, and when that happens...well you understand.
Please guys, and i don't mean hexrain alone, stop bashin at eachother, the thruth is out there, but we all have to work together in finding it.

Now, everybody who reads this, getyour information, post it anywhere on ats as you been doing, find everything, prepare for the worst, use anything to get ready, cause it may be fun now to hear people bashing masons and trying to bash back, but it won't be when stuff like in fortress or v for vendetta or matrix happens.
Please try to understand this, it is US versus THEM in the end, you all may have to become allies in time to do something to stop the real treath from happening, we cannot affoard you to fight amongst eachother then.
Unless offcourse hexrain is right and you guys are evil witch i hope not, and kinda think not either but still, i keep an open mind, so that is also an option, sorry.
(wauw, i sounded like a resistance leader)

Ow and btw, if ou could provide some proof to back some things up, it will be more plausible for most guys to let you people go
cause like i said, there are a lot of strange signs and stuff that point to something going on in masonry you got to agree on that

I read the topic posted by hexrain, the one with they know there hiding(i've been watching to many freinds episodes:S).
And i just started wondering about what you said about a lot of people who invented stuff where masons, i watched a programm yesterday, witch put on an intreeging viewpoint by the guy, michael tsarion, his name is.

www.youtube.com...

I couldn't find the clip i was watching yesterday for some reason, but the adamic race, reptillians and some others on there have to do something with it.
It's kinda out there, but the thing he says about them wanting to get us edjucated and make inventions before we can handle them seems plausible, that togheter with what you said...is kinda making me wonder....

Gotta stay openminded, btw, that goes for the masons to, so if you answer my quetions, please consider this...you also don't know everything, so you cannot be sure nothing is going on in masonry, so basicly...none of us have proof...

thank you patronas. yes on the previous post i stated a personal observance and an experience that a close friend shared with me, but since i posted about it, lets just say it got taken way off topic.

anyway i think the geomancy thing is pertanant. symbols have a lot of power, even if it's just to affect the sub-consious. the subconscious is what makes magic happen. anyway i guess i can't prove it they are right but i'm not lying, or a quack, it probably sounds weird because you would never think it was happening. but i have seen too many things to swallow hook line and sinker that they are just humanitarians. just my opinion i guess.

oh and btw. i do agree that EVERYONE has a right to speak in here... i'm not telling you to leave, i just think its messed up that your here, again just an opinion.

[edit on 13-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 13-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
i'm not telling you to leave, i just think its messed up that your here, again just an opinion.

So, then it's "messed up" that YOU'RE here, too, right? Everyone on ATS is "messed up"? Or just those whose views run contrary to YOURS?

Just checking. I wouldn't want to be perceived as being "messed up" without a fair shake.

no just people who think they are going to find any proof in here. those are the only one's that should leave, i'm done with it though, leave a dead horse where it lay.

So, you're done with this place?

Awesome.

Hopefully the next contender will be more interested in rational discussion and less in blind zeal and axe-grinding.

I'm disgusted at your attitude when it is obvious that Appak has gone right out of his way to present ATSers with some pretty detailed knowledge of Masonry from firsthand experience. If you don't believe his account, or need corroboration, do some research. I realise from your previous posts that you're a stranger to it, but I have a lot of faith in humankind's ability to learn, develop, and change for the better.

Originally posted by hexrain1
no just people who think they are going to find any proof in here. those are the only one's that should leave, i'm done with it though, leave a dead horse where it lay.

Just as I suspected. Pick up your toys and go home when things don't go your way. Yep. It's reminiscent of fifth grade (or perhaps before). Oh well, don't let it get you down hexrain. Your kind have been here before and they'll be here again. And they will be dealt with accordingly. Fair is fair, right? [sigh]

(edit for spelling. The 140 wpm fingers are faster than the eye...and sometimes the mind as well)

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Roark
I'm disgusted at your attitude when it is obvious that Appak has gone right out of his way to present ATSers with some pretty detailed knowledge of Masonry from firsthand experience. If you don't believe his account, or need corroboration, do some research. I realise from your previous posts that you're a stranger to it, but I have a lot of faith in humankind's ability to learn, develop, and change for the better.

Thanks Roark,

I guess as a relative new-comer here I was a bit aprehensive at first, but it dawned on me that all I needed to do was speak my mind and try to present the truth. I don't pretend to know ALL, but I sure know crap when I see it and at my present age, have very little reservation about pointing it out.

I've gone through quite a bit of the old posts (from a few years back) and I sometimes wonder if some of these Einsteins aren't being recycled.

Either that or they share the same brain.

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Patronas
well, ok

Let's start with ehm.
What do you discuss, when your in there?
Why is it secret?? i mean, i don't understand this...
then the questions you posted yourself

, why who, where, what etc.
ehm then eh...do you think that there might be something inside your orgenisation that isn't quite as good as you(did that came out right...well you understand it

)

What kind on conspiricys do you believe in, and what brought you to this site?
(please list them all

, aliens, 9/11, bnush, illuminati, wichever you can think of)

Do you have some special rules or something by witch you need to live??

Ok well Appak did a very good job of answering your questions with regards to the functions of a lodge, so I'll just answer the personal questions.

Q: Why did I join?

A: Being involved with a number of not for profit organisations, I have met a large number of very kind hearted and selfless people. A number of them were freemasons and would sometimes mention their involvement in the craft.

Since they were all kind and respected members of the community (one of them was the founder and sponsor of the largest LOW COST retirement community in WA) I started asking questions about Masonry, went to a few open nights and was so impressed with the positive attitude of the Masons that I met, that I put in an application to join!

Q: Who got me to join?

A: As I mentioned in my above post, I decided to join based on my relationship with a number of masons, however my sponsor (the person who vouches for you) was the Founder of the Retirement community. He really impressed me in the way he was ALWAYS putting others first. Even at the age of 92 he is still actively involved in charity organisations and until recently was still very active in the community.


As for the other questions, Appak really did a good job of answering them but I'll add my personal observations to them..

The biggest secrets as far as im concerned are really just the modes of recognition and the pass words. You can find a lot of information on the ceremonies just by googling them and while they might seem strange for someone who happens to come across them, they really do have a deeper significance when you are part of them.

I do think that there are bad people within masonry who really shouldnt be masons, however this is the same with every organisation and the majority of masons are really good people.

The conspiracies that originally drew me to ATS were mainly political and science related. Things like "Who shot JFK?" and "Was the moon landing faked?". When I first joined the site I didnt even really post in the Secret Societies forum, though I do recall it was much nicer and less blatantly Anti-Mason.

The special rules to live by as appak mentioned is to basically be a good citizen, do unto others as you would have done unto you and to always, ALWAYS consider those who are less fortunate then yourself.

Coowl thanks, but please guys. answer the other questions took me ages to type them out

Have another: what is the goal of the society??
What are the degrees about??

Originally posted by Patronas
Coowl thanks, but please guys. answer the other questions

took me ages to type them out

Have another: what is the goal of the society??
What are the degrees about??

Well there is no real goal in freemasonry other than that of helping each mason to become the best person he can be and in helping others who are in need of help.

We dont sit down each month and measure our progress in dominating the world thats for sure =D

The degrees are symbolic lessons that each mason learns.

The first degree is your initiation, where you learn the basic philosophies of Freemasonry and the guidelines for being a good mason (ie. Obeying the laws of your country, treating people how you want to be treated). You are also taught the symbolic meaning of the "tools" of an Entered apprentice freemason and how these symbolic meaniing should be a guide for your actions.

The second degree furthers your understanding of masonic philosophy and requires you to answer a set of questions with regards to masonry. Again you are taught more symbolic meaning of tools, this time the tools of a Fellowcraft Freemason.

The third degree is the big one, this is where you become a master mason and again have to answer questions with regards to masonry and its philosophies. More tools are explained to you and you are educated on masonic Lore.

Throughout all three ceremonies there was nothing that made me feel uncomfortable or threatened in any way and the only secrets that I was entrusted with was the secret modes of recognition (the infamous handshake and a password).

I will read back over your other posts and see what other questions of yours I missed =D

still, like i asked earlyer, about 5 posts up, there are 3 posts with questions...
Well like i asked earlyer, how can you be sure that the most upper people aren't doing someting....out of the ordenary, i mean, ain't it just like soldiers, only you don't folow orders, but i mean, the soldiers know nothing, and the generals know a lot, like that kinda stuff.
Could be couldn't it? and if not, why not?

Originally posted by Patronas
still, like i asked earlyer, about 5 posts up, there are 3 posts with questions...
Well like i asked earlyer, how can you be sure that the most upper people aren't doing someting....out of the ordenary, i mean, ain't it just like soldiers, only you don't folow orders, but i mean, the soldiers know nothing, and the generals know a lot, like that kinda stuff.
Could be couldn't it? and if not, why not?

Ah ok I see that question =D.

Yes it is entirely possible there members of freemasonry that are doing things the rest dont know about.

However, there is no 'higher level' freemasonry desptie popular belief. The degree's that people talk about ie. 33rd degree are from side branches of freemasonry and do not bestow any special rank or higher office to the people who hold them. I have a friend who is a 17th(?) degree mason with the Rosicrucians and when we go to lodge he sits right next to me like all the other master masons.

The only real level of seniority is the Grand Lodge. Its kinda like how there is Local government and State government. The individual Lodges are like the Local governments, in that we look after our own internal affairs and fundraising, then there is the Grand Lodge of WA which is like the State Government in that it looks after matters that affect Masons all across the state. They also have an inspector of workings that comes to all lodge meetings to make sure the correct procedures are being followed and that new office bearers know what they are doing.

I find it hard to believe that Grand Lodge is up to anything we dont know about because Grand Lodge officers are regular masons who are chosen to be part of the Delegation. Just about EVERY mason I know over the age of 60 has been in the Grand Lodge Delegation at one stage or another (you can tell because they get to wear special jewels) so there would be an awful lot of people entrusted with any earth shattering secret business.

As to your earlier question about being brainwashed, the number of highly intelligent people that are involved with masonry (including State and Federal Members of Parliament and successful businessmen) makes it hard for me to belive that any sort of brainwashing is taking place. Its not like scientology who prey on troubled or unstable people with an appetite for placenta (sorry Tom had to take that shot), or other religions who look for people who are in need of spiritual guidance or something to fill their lives.

Instead freemasonry seems to attract well rounded, balanced individuals who are able to make a contribution to freemasonry and society.

1. why did any of you join, and how, i dont mean rituals, but like because of somebody or something, you know.
2. could it be pausible that a form of illuminati still exsists in masonry?
3. coul it be posible you do not know of a form of evil inside masonry?
4. could it be that some other cult uses the name freemasonry and THOSE are the ones that are evil??
5. The symbols you use, what do they mean??
6. the symbols, could they have been addopted or formed out of another evil society like illuminati??
7. hexrain1 says his friend got mollested in freemasonry, somebody posted that this could not be and that the ones would be kicked out of masonry, witch brings me back to the first couple of questions, cause it could verry well be, and him saying so could be as good a word that i take of your word, so please answer that
8. why are the symbols used in your society so often found on other stuff??
9. hexrain made me wonder about one thing, do you actually know more of this world then us?
10. Why are masons almost always subject to evil...ehm...no i mean, why are people always comparing you to evil things(ow god, i dont know how to put this)
Why do people always compare masonry to evil things??, also a question i love to be answered by hexrain, if you still want to that is.
11. could there be a remote possibility that you actually are being brainwashed in some way or another, cause you probably wouldn't know it.
12. have you EVER, EVERRRR noticed ANYTHING strange in some masonic lodge or heard something strange or was there anything strange said or SOMETHING, like somebody died or something under strange circemstances(dutch schooling at its best:s i tryd though)

sOME OF THESE HAVE BEEN ANSWERED OTHERS HAVE NOT, wow caps lock:S, sorry am to lazy to type it again:p
But still like in the above questions, it could verry well be possible that some members, have there own agenda??
Like a secret society inside a secret society...
Cause this sounds a lot like:
the germans want to take over the world, or the jews want to, or the muslims want to...you know, the masons fits in the row.
the germans didn't want to, Hitler and co wanted to, lots of germans hated them.
The Jews don't want to, like in the protocolls of zion, something other then your run in the mill jews want to.
The muslims don't want to, if some muslims want to, it is the terrorists.
the masons don't want to, if some of the, probably an illuminati or something.

This is verry verry plausable in my way of thinking

Originally posted by Patronas
1. why did any of you join, and how, i dont mean rituals, but like because of somebody or something, you know.

See above post =D

2. could it be pausible that a form of illuminati still exsists in masonry?

Possible that Illuminate RECRUITS from Freemasonry, not exists within.

3. coul it be posible you do not know of a form of evil inside masonry?

Possible that an evil offshoot of masonry exists, that is not sacntioned or supported by Grand Lodge

4. could it be that some other cult uses the name freemasonry and THOSE are the ones that are evil??

Very possible that people pose as Freemasons for their own personal gain. These people could not associate with real Freemasons as we would see right through their act.

5. The symbols you use, what do they mean??

The symbols (square and compass, dove bearing an olive branch, the crossed swords) each have their own significant and complicated significance that would require a lot of time to explain.

6. the symbols, could they have been addopted or formed out of another evil society like illuminati??

Possible though if they did they lost any evil meaning when freemasons adopted them.

7. hexrain1 says his friend got mollested in freemasonry, somebody posted that this could not be and that the ones would be kicked out of masonry, witch brings me back to the first couple of questions, cause it could verry well be, and him saying so could be as good a word that i take of your word, so please answer that

If his friend was molested by masons they would be expelled from their lodges as they would not only be breaking masons oath of "treating others as you want to be treated", but also the laws of society which they promise to uphold.

8. why are the symbols used in your society so often found on other stuff??

I wasnt aware that they were =D

9. hexrain made me wonder about one thing, do you actually know more of this world then us?

I dont consider myself to know any more than any other member of society and the only secrets I have been shown are the secret modes of recognition, so no I dont think that masons know more about the world (generally speaking) than any other person.

10. Why are masons almost always subject to evil...ehm...no i mean, why are people always comparing you to evil things(ow god, i dont know how to put this)
Why do people always compare masonry to evil things??, also a question i love to be answered by hexrain, if you still want to that is.

Masons are often portrayed as evil because people fear the unknown. Most people have NO idea about freemasonry so they fear Freemasons. Conspiracy nuts are worse because they have a preconceived notion that there is a 'great evil' out there trying to take over the world.

11. could there be a remote possibility that you actually are being brainwashed in some way or another, cause you probably wouldn't know it.

Answered above, but to put it simply: No. Nothing that I have encountered in freemasonry has ever come across as persuasive or intrusive.

12. have you EVER, EVERRRR noticed ANYTHING strange in some masonic lodge or heard something strange or was there anything strange said or SOMETHING, like somebody died or something under strange circemstances(dutch schooling at its best:s i tryd though)

Sorry again but no =D I have never noticed anything strange with my involvement in Freemasonry except for the fact that when you are an entered apprenctice - EVERYBODY knows who you are =/

So basicly...i still find myself confused about everyting, i know now more things about masonry, and didn't change my mind, something is wrong, but not with masons per se.
And people who have read these posts now know more about masons to...job done i think

Originally posted by Patronas
So basicly...i still find myself confused about everyting, i know now more things about masonry, and didn't change my mind, something is wrong, but not with masons per se.
And people who have read these posts now know more about masons to...job done i think

Im glad you feel this post was worthwhile =)

I enjoyed being able to answer some questions for someone with an open mind and a genuine interest!

If you still feel there is something wrong - do some more to get involved. Go look up your local lodge and see if you can have a chat to some of the members. Im sure they would be more than happy to talk with you.