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Originally posted by devilwasp
Originally posted by justyc
they do seem to have a habit in the uk of killing, wounding and arresting totally innocent people they 'know' are terrorists because their 'intelligence' says so. who is supplying this 'intelligence' and should we be starting to question it? after all, what if the uk is deliberately being fed bad intel to make them look bad/stupid/incompetent & clueless
Uh ok yeah thanks bud want to accuse my country of anything else while your at it?
Intelligence isnt 100% accurate and it never is....bur hindsight is always 20/20.
[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]
Originally posted by devilwasp
With respect stu would you like to aprehend the next subject that has a "small" bomb planted on him?
Stu, just theorising here, what would happen if say I dunno one was set off at the door of the cockpit then another thrown in for good measure?
Uh ok yeah thanks bud want to accuse my country of anything else while your at it?
Intelligence isnt 100% accurate and it never is....bur hindsight is always 20/20.
Originally posted by justyc
um, let me see? do any of these cases jog your memory?....
the birmingham six who were jailed for 16 years and guildford four who were jailed for 15 years before being set free because they were innocent
mentally ill judith ward who was jailed for life for the euston bombing who was released after 18 years
the three unarmed ira suspects who were shot dead in gibralter whilst out walking
derek bentley, who was hung at the age of 19 for the murder of a policeman. he was pardoned after 45 years thanks to the tireless campaign by his sister iris to clear his name
the 4 innocent men convicted of carl bridgewaters murder who served 18 years before being released
the tottenham 3, who were jailed for the murder of keith blakelock during the tottenham riots and were was released after having their convictions quashed
sally clark, jailed for the murder of her 2 cot death babies and released after 3 years in jail and 5 years of trying to clear her name. the 'expert' whose tesimony damned her was struck off the medical register for serious professional misconduct
i could go on with some lesser known cases and i could also list all the pending cases of alleged uk miscarriages of justice but i think you get my point by now
you see, being english myself, i kind of have this sense of feeling sorry for people who are innocent victims of the papers and the public baying to convict anybody for horrific crimes. past history shows that in cases of terrorism (ira), it was quite common to jail innocent people. so now we have a new form of terrorism and a lot of innocent people arrested/shot/killed i start to see a pattern forming.
so, with hindsight, i think the uk SHOULD hold itself to higher standards to ensure that the right people are convicted, rather than just grabbing anybody on concocted evidence just so we can all feel safe and smug and better for a few years until they are released and cleared on appeal (whilst the REAL guilty people are still roaming around in ALL of the above murder cases btw - just think about that!)
so before you condemn me without knowing the facts about me, remember that you are english and you have a duty ensure that our tainted uk convicting history doesnt repeat itself.
WHAT!
I am not english in any way, shape or form! I am quite insulted you havent even taken the time to look at my display picture or the writing underneath it before posting..
Dont try to tell me what my duty is or isnt, I decide that not you.
Originally posted by stumason
Considering the bombs apparently required assembly before use, I would happily go up to him and kick in square in the nuts. He won't have the time to find his cohorts and assemble his bomb.
It would make more sense to apprehend them with the components than arrest them when they could have hidden away the evidence until the op turned active.
At ground level? Not alot, apart from wounded crew.
Remember, these "bombs" where to be smuggled on in their component parts,
so waiting for them to be carrying the components and apprehendeing them then makes more sense than prematurely ejaculating and causing a frenzy, which is what they have done.
Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but on the flip side, you don't shoot a dude in the head 8 times if you know the intelligence is suspect.
An ideal situation would be to challenge the suspect. If he runs or makes any moves, then shoot him. It is riskier, but athe chance of murdering innocents, which you are trying to avoid anyway, it's a chance I would willingly take.
If it wasn't for the ban on smoking the wacky tobaccy, I would happily join the security services today.
Originally posted by Pictnation
Its has to be vague I'm afraid. If I told you how I got these warnings, I'd be in deep trouble.
Now you'll be thinking I'm full of BS myself, so go and google The Orange Lodge of Scotland. In these pages you'll find a quote refering to 'protecting Queen and Country'.
Read the wording carefully, and draw your own conclussions.
Originally posted by justyc
and that the biggest perpetrator of miscarriages of justice in the uk is in fact england, i wrongly assumed that you were english.
my apologies. however, i never accused scotland of anything in my posts or are you saying that the uk is actually a country?
scotland, as i am sure you are aware, has a seperate legal system from england, wales, and northern ireland but also has its fair share of miscariages of justice (162 of them are listed here from 2000. it also has the scottish criminal cases review commission to investigate them.
as for your question of how you tell if somebody is innocent or guilty, you at least decide that by taking them to court and trying them and whilst all those cases i mentioned show the problem of rushing to convict somebody on flimsy evidence,
im sure charles de menezes would have loved to have been given the opportunity to clear his name.