Government Releases Detailed Info on 9/11 Crashes

www.gwu.edu...

Pay attention to the Time/Date this was released and Recent Events that have taken place....

[edit on 11-8-2006 by a1ex]

This is most curious.




Note the flight path. the plane makes a huge loop over Northern Virginia/Southern D.C. metro. Curious indeed, especially considering all the belly aching they do about how they "lost" flight 77.

The flight 93 report is also very interesting as well.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
This is most curious.

Note the flight path. the plane makes a huge loop over Northern Virginia/Southern D.C. metro. Curious indeed, especially considering all the belly aching they do about how they "lost" flight 77.

What are the qualifications needed for the Staff in charge of Screening the Radars? Average Age? Education? Whos the person responsible if any errors do happen?



[edit on 11-8-2006 by a1ex]

What are the qualifications needed for the Staff in charge of Screening the Radars? Average Age? Education? Whos the person responsible if any errors do happen?

Well, depends on which radar you're talking about. Civilian Air Traffic controllers have to go through alot of schooling and need quite a bit of education. Military air traffic controllers are usually a bit younger, and less formal education, but no less well trained or knowldgeable.

needless to say, you have to be well qualified and trained to operate air traffic control, as it is an occuptaion that has almost zero margin for error, whether civilian or military.

If there was an obvious error which should of been detected by properly trained personel...then was some one made accountable for this error? if system failure was the cause...then was the system in question ever replaced/fixed?.....

Highly unlikely it was equipment malfunction. Unless all the radar stations and control towers on the east coast all decided to break down at the exact same time.

And it is also unlikely that every radar station and control tower on the east coast was staffed by inexperienced novices with no experienced senior staff to assist them.

its a long story.....i'm at work right now, but for those of you who have air traffic questions ask them, and i'll answer them when i get home tonight (i've only got five minutes left on this break....not enough time to address the questions already asked).

Originally posted by a1ex
What are the qualifications needed for the Staff in charge of Screening the Radars? Average Age? Education? Whos the person responsible if any errors do happen?
[edit on 11-8-2006 by a1ex]

qualification: you can either get you air traffic training in the military, or at one of several colleges in the country that have air traffic programs. the military sends you to a four to six month specialization school where you learn the basics, and then you learn the rest at your first facility. training time is anywhere from a couple of months to over a year depending upon the type and amount of traffic at that facility. the civilian programs are either two or four year degrees. after you get hired on with the faa, the training time at the facility can be anywhere from 6 months to three or four years depending upon whether you go to a tower or a radar facility. the maximum age to enter the faa is 31.

average age: anwhere from 22 to 60. we have had a huge influx of new hires over the last couple of years because all of those hired after the strike in 1981 are pretty close to retirement age.

education: covered above.

responsibility: that's a tricky one. obviously, the controller on position takes the blame if he makes a mistake, and the pilot is responsible for his. in the enroute radar environment where the majority of heavy traffic is worked, a huge margin of error is built into the sytem so that when mistakes happen, they dont result in aircraft actually trading paint. that margin is five miles laterally and 1000 feet vertically. in the event of the separation requirement being broken by the controller, discipline could range anywhere from book study to retraining on the sector the error happened in. in some instances controllers have been made to retrain on every radar sector in his or her assigned area (usually 5 to 7 sectors). an extreme case of someone who has several errors in a short time period could lead to dismissal.

Originally posted by a1ex
If there was an obvious error which should of been detected by properly trained personel...then was some one made accountable for this error? if system failure was the cause...then was the system in question ever replaced/fixed?.....

that requires a technical explanation:

there was no error on the air traffic side. you see, there are two types of radar targets in the air traffic world....primary and secondary. primary targets are simply blips on the screen from the radar bouncing off of the aircraft. modern civilian radars dont track those very well because they are designed to track mostly secondary radar. the reason behind this is that many different things can show up as primary targets and clutter up the scope....weather, cars on the road, boat masts in the water, flocks of birds, etc. secondary radar is the information from the aircraft's transponder which is correlated by the different radar sites and sent to the radar scope, and it is a hundred times more reliable than primary...if it is turned on. secondary gives us the aircrafts altitude, speed, and allows us to assign a specific callsign to the aircraft which we see on the scope, as well as do a bunch of other gee wiz things with the target to help control the traffic.

now, what happens when the pilot turns off his transponder is that all we see is that small primary blip, which can become intermingled with all of the other blips out there (small aircraft flying visually not talking to atc, weather, etc). we can assign a data tag to that blip, but primary coverage is not very reliable, and its very easy to confuse that target with another.....especially when you arent talking to the aircraft in question. if you are talking to him, you can identify him by asking him to do things like turn 30 degrees one direction or another. but if your not talking to him, all you can do is track him the best you can.

to make a long story short, the controllers tracked the aircraft the best they could, but having never been trained for this eventuality and dealing with conflicting reports on the aircrafts whereabouts, the situation became very confused very quickly. it didnt help matters that norad didnt really have a clue what was going on.....judging by what i have seen over the last five years, both problems have been addressed and we receive heavy training to insure that a situation like that never happens again.

hope that answers your questions.

Thanks for the Reply. Im currently getting informed on all the facts from other sources. your information is really helpful.

Originally posted by a1ex
www.gwu.edu...

Pay attention to the Time/Date this was released and Recent Events that have taken place....

[edit on 11-8-2006 by a1ex]

Hilarious!! I mean.. August 11! 5 years less 1 month. 1700 some days?

Hell of a slow delivery if you think our 2001 taxes should have paid for this information. Nothing like "free within 30" or "6 to 8 weeks for shipping"...

Why are they so afraid of telling us the truth? I find this extremely condescending. I believe I speak for almost everybody when I say that I wish I could b*tch-slap whoever is responsible for 9-11. For national security, of course.