Is the UK our enemy?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

So i could consider war on terror supporters to be enemies of America.

So you're saying you dont want to be protected? Im all for somebody to try and
stop me from getting blown up. So i must be an enemy.

man this is unbelievable! The UK has stood 'shoulder to shoulder' with the USA to its cost in lives and global standing and will no doubt go straight to hell with the USA if necessary due to a depth of loyalty that goes way back to WW2 and now you want to turn on the UK as an enemy? The islamic radicals (better than 'muslim') maybe be British born but are most likely Pakistani why is it Pakistan has not been punished for it's persistent sheltering, training and recruitment of terrorists?

The UK is just about the last true friend America has unless you count Israel which I don't. And if you think just because some people from the UK have got involved in this kind of terror the whole country should be targeted then why not consider yourself the USA who are currently bankrolling Somali Jihadists against the warlords, or funded OBL and countless other leaders and terror organisations.

The USA is heaping so much of all the bad onto themselves with a foreign policy that inflames the situation rather than makes anything better. Afghanistan and Iraq are burning, people are dying in droves everyday with the 'democracy' they have had bestowed upon them. Torture, rape and murder from US soldiers is inconceivable and yet has happened repeatedly.

I don't believe in the islamic radical cause at all but anyone can see this kind of policy against them only serves to make more of them sign up to their cause. Some Americans (not all) really must educate themselves and open their eyes. Because every day we're all going down the road to hell

Originally posted by michael_vts
Of course were not Americas enemy, there is a lot of people in the uk who are sick of the ammount of muslims moving over here, its becoming a dangerous place to live in recent times.

For the second time in the post, do not confuse Muslims with extremists.

And I ask the 2 Brits above to realize that not all Americans, so far only the thread starter has even asked the question, think the UK is an enemy. And I dont believe even the thread starter believes it because youd have to be nuts to think such a thing.

The UK is our biggest supporter and the one ally we could call on when we needed anything. They are the second largest force in Iraq and is the one that has stood the strongest with us. They stood with us when a country we helped GIVE BACK TWICE to its people told us to screw off and undermined our attempts at justice in the UN. Oh how times have changed int he last 200 years.

I just hope it continues with the upcoming elections or the US will have a big problem when Tony Blair is gone.


And to my knowledge the US never funded OBL. We funded other mujahaden(sp?) but never OBL because he was considered too radical and himself at that time a threat to the US. And what started most of this was OBL when the Saudis told him that he and his men could not safeguard SA if Saddam invaded in 91. OBl said they could fend em off like hey did the USSR but the Saudis said they needed to US's power to secure their freedom which OBL saw as infidels on holy land.
But then again we all know Bush planned 9/11.

Originally posted by SenHeathen
And to my knowledge the US never funded OBL. We funded other mujahaden(sp?) but never OBL because he was considered too radical and himself at that time a threat to the US. And what started most of this was OBL when the Saudis told him that he and his men could not safeguard SA if Saddam invaded in 91. OBl said they could fend em off like hey did the USSR but the Saudis said they needed to US's power to secure their freedom which OBL saw as infidels on holy land.
But then again we all know Bush planned 9/11.

actuily the US did through the proxy Pakisatn
during the soviot afgan war there were two groups fighting the soviets

1 group was moderate and moderate who just wanted to peace with their leader being a mujahadeen (one of the few great warriors that fought the soviets)
which later turned out to be the northan alliaence

and the other extreme which turned out to be the teliban

because the us/cia routed money through pakistan the pakistani goverment saw a extreme group more in their bennifits so they gave the money and wepaons to extremists,

so US-Pak-terrorists

also Bin ladin is from the richest familes in saudi (heck thats why his family were flown out straight away after 9/11 because of their ties with the american president)

he who has money controls everything religon is alaways used to mask ones true goal

Ah, I was not aware that we gave Pakistan money and they turned around and gave it to OBL. I stand corrected and enlightened.

Is the UK our enemy?

Your opening Ppost says it all, I have never laughed so mutch in all my life when I read your opening Comment. If the Uk was the enemy of the USA, then they would have let this go ahead, instead of alerting your security services to what was happening or what was going to happen. Now does that make A Country the USA's Enemy. Answer NO.

I have noticed many brits seem to be sympathetic to muslim terrorists or at least sympathetic to muslims in general. I also noticed from my time in London that thgere are a great many muslims living withing the UK. The recent incident with the flights is suspicuous as well.
I have noticed many brits seem to be sympathetic to muslim terrorists or at least sympathetic to muslims in general. I also noticed from my time in London that there are a great many muslims living withing the UK. The recent incident with the flights is suspicuous as well.

Have you ever been to the UK, I think you will see a percentage of the Population here in the U.K. are not sympathetic to muslims or the so called terroists who carry out such attacks (please note i am not calling Muslims Terroists). Ooh wait you were in London so that gives you qualified views on the whole of the UK.

Britain is a multicultural society of course you are going have an influx of muslims from other countries, just as we get influxes of other cultures to the U.K. does not mean that we are harbouring fundamentalists or people hell bent on killing everyone.

My question is this....do they knowingly harbor terrorists? or have they been unwittingly subjugated by terrorists?

I could ask the same about your country since you think there is none there, But then I would have to ask if the USA and Enemy of the UK, now I wonder what your responce would be? Exactly the same as some of the members on this forum has posted. I really think you knew exactly what the responces would be after posting this thread.

In fact a few groups in the USA funded the IRA during the troubles years ago, Double standards here?? Hms yes I think so.

Should we Americans consider the UK compromised?

Same question maybe Us British should ask ourselves hmmmms weither or not the USA has been compromised.

Look If we were the USA's enemy, we would not have stood shoulder to shoulder with yous, when your country was attacked on 9/11, nor would we have gone to War on Iraq with you, nor would we have went into afghanistan.

When it comes to counting all Muslims as terrorists/extremists/fundamentalists I think we should remember something George Bush said at the start of this whole War on Terror.

He said, "God is with us."

God? So he believes that he is fighting under divine right? So doesn't that make what he is doing a religious war? His faith against the Muslim faith? Bush is starting his own Jihad and soon it will all fall on his head.
Tony Blair, for all of his faults, would know not to make remarks like that about something as serious as war.
Western socities are always considered to be these "free living-everyone is happy-no one suffers" countries, which represent the entire world.
Yet Bush constantly makes reference to his religious beliefs. Religion and government should never mix, except when the entire population of a country is of one faith.


And you need to ask why they feel the need to retaliate? If you recall the early days of the war, I think you will find that the American army was using a substance (phosphorous white I think) which was banned by the UN along with napalm. This chemical causes severe pain when inhaled, and the US freely admitted that they also used it because of the psychological damage it would cause.

Britain, despite the feelings of the majority of the population, is with America. Despite the fact that in the first weeks of the war almost twenty of our soldiers died because of American "mis-fire".

As someone previously stated, America has only now experienced fear. The US believed that it was almost untouchable. It is on the other side of the world to the East, it has probably the largest army and excels in other areas. When 9/11 happened you were scared because you had fallen off your pedestal.

Britain knows that we are not invulnerable, but we do not fear. Why? Because there's no benefit to fear. What do you gain? Every time a plane flies overhead you run and hide. Every time you see a Muslim while flying you stare, or move seats, or ask for a police presence.
It isn't a wonder that Muslims choose to live in Britain when you consider that their homes are probably overrun with coalition forces and America isn't exactly welcoming them with open arms.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have noticed many brits seem to be [...]sympathetic to muslims in general.

What the heck would be wrong with that??

he recent incident with the flights is suspicuous as well.

Are you actually suggesting that "England" is plotting against the US???

Trying to get back at us for the revolution or something?

Should we Americans consider the UK compromised?

Beacause there are muslims there!?
There are more muslims in the US than in britain, and britain has a lot of muslim immigrants because it once ruled over muslim terrirtory.

the true UK citizens (the english, scots and welsh) of course we are friends

Uhmm, hate to break this to you, but anyone that has citizenship in the UK is a 'true UK citizen", just like anyone born with or granted citizenship in the US is an equal US citizen. Equality of citizenship is one of the basic components of modern democratic life.

centurion1211
Oh, so it "sucks" to have to try and defend your groups that are actually the source of most, not all (clear on that?) of the world's terrorists.

I don't recall anyone expecting the average irisher to stand up and apologize for the IRA when they were active, when IRELAND was the source of most of the worlds terrorism. No one requested it because its ridiculous.

'mon, learn to be responsible and own up for what is yours and stop blaming others.

HUH?
He is supposed to apologize for the actions of zealots, but also is supposed to stop blaming others?
Anyone that holds all muslims responsible for muslim fanatics is flat out wrong. No muslim is under any obligation to apologize for anything that they themselves haven't directly done.

How many americans apologize for the rape, torture, and killing or iraqi civilians commited by american troops? I've never seen a single american do that, and they shouldn't have to apologize for 'bad apples'. Neither should muslims. There is nothing in the religion of islam that necesitates deadly fanaticism and terrorism. Like any and every religion, it gets twisted to justify murder. The average muslim bears no more of a requirement for apology for modern day terrorism than a protestant does for the catholic and orthodox crusades!

westpoint23
these terrorists caught today were British born citizens of Pakistani decent

Good point! When the hell is that evil sniveling bastard tony blair going to apologize for this eh? When is the whole of england going to get down on its knees and beg for our forgiveness for these actions by their citizens?

See, thats nuts.

(obviously westpoint isn't claiming this, for the record).

What in the UK is causing these people to turn against their country like this?

Because its not 'their country', or at least they aren't treated as such, or minimally consider that to be the case.
Consider why there were muslim riots in australia, france, and germany, no so long ago.
Its because those countries are not able to assimilate immigrants.
The US, despite the many loathesome racists that live within it, despite its terrible track record with blacks, is simply free from large scale riots because it can assimilate immigrants, such as muslim immigrants.
Once unassimilated and marginalized, then those immigrants look for justification for their rage. In this case, its contextualized into a struggle between the west and islam.

deltaboy
Remember that guy who supported the attacks on 9/11? The guy with the hook

The problem is, that when you aren't accepting of people that are 'foreign' and critical and stupid like that guy, then you start failing to assimilate and integrate the immigrants, and you get the problems that france so recently had.
Of course, the other problem is that you can also end up having guys like him, who radicalize the youth that are already angry, and give them an outlet for their violence.
At the same time, I beleive that that particular imam was infact thrown out of Britain, he actually went to lebanon. When the war broke out, he was begging the brits to evacuate him!
Such hypocrites so many of these religious leaders are!

jimc5499
Actually the trend towards diversity instead of assimilation is causing some of the problems today. It used to be when someone emigrated to another country they were assimilated by that country's culture.

Lets not be too one sided here.
When the italians immigrated to the US, they were hated, they were swarthy foreigners who had a crazy religion ('papacy') and foul smelling food (garlic, onions, peppers, all mixed together? Wads of meat? For WASPS, thats revolting).
The immigrants had to change, but the society at large also had to change. Today, the Italians and Irish are part of America, and people dont' get ticked when an italian waves a green white and red flag during the world cup, like they do with latin americans, or with irish for emphasizing that they're irish (I've never heard anyone say 'so go back to ireland you damned papists!).

The same thing is happening, and has to continue with the latins and muslims as it did with the poles and germans, and the result is going to be that they'll be part of america, not merely 'whitewashed/assimilated into it'.

you have Pakistanis living in the UK or US. There is no feeling of loyalty to their chosen country,

I don't know what the situation is in the UK, but in the US, they're americans.

If england wants immigrant riots, then its very easy to arrange, just shun the muslims, loath their culture, and make demands that they drop their ethnic identity.
Or, if the UK wants to be united, it can embrace the muslims, after all, they are going to the UK because they want to be there. Hell, most people in the UK are just plain up and born there, they've done nothing to show that they actually want citizenship. THese people have left their homelands and crossed half the world to live in england, and the US, thats a good thing, we should all be happy about that and greet them as friends!

Originally posted by JackofBlades
God? So he believes that he is fighting under divine right? So doesn't that make what he is doing a religious war? His faith against the Muslim faith? Bush is starting his own Jihad and soon it will all fall on his head.

Please stick to the topic. There are many poltical threads to discuss that topic in.

I sorry but am tired and cant really be bothered reading every post so I will some this up in one paragraph.

America should not worry about the UK, the UK should worry about the UK. There is growing movement of Anti-American, Anti-Semitic (disguised usually as Anti-Zionist) sentiment. This means that very often the media represents what could be easily described as line biased towards Islamic fundamentalists.

(This is particularly true of the BBC, although the less internationally renowned Channel 4, takes it too an extreme beyond belief. With programmes such as America on Trail" - an exploration of how the USA is evil).

Because of this the average Joe in the UK is spoon fed an image of Israel and America as the two great evils of the world. Tony Blair is portrayed as nothing but an pawn in their unholy chess set. The majority of the Uk population is grossly ignorant of the real world and relies on the TV and newspapers to spoon feed them this bias bile (sorry about the alliteration).

In conclusion the UK needs to mend its ways and accept that unless they take a more objective view of the threat that Islamist fundamentalism has on our country, then the possible attack that could have happened over the Atlantic will surely come about albeit in a different form.

Jensy

P.S

1) I am a proud British citizen and have been my entire life (my great grandfather was a Lord and his brother one of the longest standing MPs in the last century) do not question my patriotism.

2) I am indeed a Zionist and believe in the presence of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel. I do however believe that there should be an Islamic state in the ex-British colony of Palestine (despite the fact that Jordan is said state).

3) Those who would accuse me of being either racist or "Islamiphobic" that is your view. As such my view of you is that you are moronic and ignorant. However if you feel that way I have no interest in changing the opinion of a fool. (as the saying goes: they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience).

4) I am aware I said a single paragraph however that would be insufficient.

Originally posted by JackofBlades
When it comes to counting all Muslims as terrorists/extremists/fundamentalists I think we should remember something George Bush said at the start of this whole War on Terror.

He said, "God is with us."

God? So he believes that he is fighting under divine right? So doesn't that make what he is doing a religious war? His faith against the Muslim faith? Bush is starting his own Jihad and soon it will all fall on his head.
Tony Blair, for all of his faults, would know not to make remarks like that about something as serious as war.
Western socities are always considered to be these "free living-everyone is happy-no one suffers" countries, which represent the entire world.
Yet Bush constantly makes reference to his religious beliefs. Religion and government should never mix, except when the entire population of a country is of one faith.


And you need to ask why they feel the need to retaliate? If you recall the early days of the war, I think you will find that the American army was using a substance (phosphorous white I think) which was banned by the UN along with napalm. This chemical causes severe pain when inhaled, and the US freely admitted that they also used it because of the psychological damage it would cause.

Britain, despite the feelings of the majority of the population, is with America. Despite the fact that in the first weeks of the war almost twenty of our soldiers died because of American "mis-fire".

As someone previously stated, America has only now experienced fear. The US believed that it was almost untouchable. It is on the other side of the world to the East, it has probably the largest army and excels in other areas. When 9/11 happened you were scared because you had fallen off your pedestal.

Britain knows that we are not invulnerable, but we do not fear. Why? Because there's no benefit to fear. What do you gain? Every time a plane flies overhead you run and hide. Every time you see a Muslim while flying you stare, or move seats, or ask for a police presence.
It isn't a wonder that Muslims choose to live in Britain when you consider that their homes are probably overrun with coalition forces and America isn't exactly welcoming them with open arms.

Some Americans were scared and some are scared. A very vast minority, just like those that generalize Islam as a terroristic religion. There is in fact a great effort to keep the terroristic actions from repesenting Islam.

We were "surprised" by 9/11. Just as with Pearl Harbor, it was an unprovoked attack with no warning. The Pacific and Atlantic have given us great protection since the forming of this country. As has being friendly with our northern neighbor and souther neighbor. Having only these 3 large countries and being on good terms with one another has given us a somewhat relaxed attitude when it comes to being attacked on our own soil, we are used to taking the fight to them, not them bringing it to us.

We are no more scared than the Brit's, only much more surprised and caught off guard.

Maybe your American Government could bomb the UK just to be sure, why not just wipe it off the face of the planet because its harbouring a few people who don't like your policies regarding destabilisation of the middle east for profiteering.

While you're at it you better bomb Australia too because I live here and I don't like the American government, or the UK one either for that matter.

Hmmmm, I have a few friends in New Zealand and they wouldn't like it if you bombed Australia to kill me, that might turn them into extremists because they lost some friends and family members so you better bomb New Zealand while you're at it.

Free speech is not terrorism, but it seems that words like terrorist, extremist, subversive get thrown around so much these days that it is applied to anyone who disagrees with the Bush Regime and its blood for profit policies.

Pax Americana! Heil Bush!

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
the true UK citizens (the english, scots and welsh) of course we are friends....but this new group of immigrants in England im not sure about.

True citizens are the Welsh, Scottish and Irish. The English are immigrants too. Theyve just been there a long time.

As for the muslims, they are everyones enemy and sooner or later things will change. The rivers of blood that Enoch Powell talked of, will come true!

PS. My wifes english, no hard feelings

A disgraceful, ignorant and stupid thread, with a dose of racism thrown in for good measure - this forum is becoming more worrying by the day

There is a real question here about home-grown terrorism but until people have the capacity to ask and discuss the correct question I doubt we'll get to discuss it.


Plus - this is in the wrong forum other 'opinion' posts are shuffled off to P@ATS quick as but yet again we say another US-centric post surviving in WoT while many, many more worthy posts were sent to P@ATS. We've told by the mods that there is no US bias on ATS - but the non-movement of this post seems to suggest that American opinions (however purile) get special treatment on here

OK.

Firstly, the premise of this thread is crap. It shows an ignorance of the whole subject matter and I fear that the writer has had his head so badly screwed by junk history and right wing propaganda that he/she may never actually discover that there is a vibrant world outside the USA that isn't full of sub-human maniacs that want to kill everyone.

What is does bring to light however is a growing and distrubing trend on ATS, of labelling, condeming and territorial pissing.

For a forum with the motto's of "Deny Ignorance" and "Deny Apathy" (ATS and PTS respectively), what I'm seeing is far from those aims.

Instead it seems to be quietly be being subverted into "Promote racism", "Promote Xenophobia", "Deny History" and "Embrace Ignorance" and the general board staff need to get hold of it and DO something about it before it becomes another message board overtaken by people with an agenda who will just shout users down and label and condem them.

This thread is offensive. It needs to be closed.

Just so we all understand the situation, many of us Brits still haven't forgotten that little incident with the tea in Boston harbour. Keep that in mind all you damn Yankees

Someday we may be pushed too far and have to row over the pond and hand out some serious spankings. Put that upstart nation in it's place once again.

And finally, for all you (made in China) flag waving Hillbillies, don't forget that you wouldn't even have your independance if it hadn't been for the bloody French helping you. Yeah, that's right, those cheese eating surrender monkeys you run down at every opportunity actually fought alongside you to kick us enlightened and morally superior English out. You made your bed, now you gotta lie in it

The US funded the IRA (we call terrorist you call freedom fighters) to kill us Brits.
You sound like you watch too much Fox news Fella - get a life !

You can't tar everybody with the same brush regardless of their ethnic background.

Admittingly, the terrorists were British-born and bred, but that doesn't make all immigrants terrorists, or that they intend to do evil upon other people.

Enoch Powell was referring to betrayel on the homefront; so yes, in part he was right that our problems were going to be in house, as it were.

However, you can't accuse somebody of being a terrorist just because of their religion, ethnic background, or culture. Many people just want to live in peace.

Besides, in every nation, and in history, terrorists have been found. Many of them homegrown. I have a book somewhere that was given to me and I have studied it.
Terrorists come in many shapes, forms and sizes. Just because somebody is a Muslim doesn't make them a terrorist.

I have met many Muslims and many of them are just intent on living a quiet peaceful life alongside other cultures. One kebab shop I use to go to they were very courteous and treated me with great respect.

As a child, I remember being in school and the whole class was punished for the acts of one person. Isn't it time we grew up and realise that the acts of a few individuals doesn't mean a whole culture is to blame. I didn't like getting punished for the act of another and neither should they.

At the end of the day there is but one race: The Human Race

Originally posted by Britguy

And finally, for all you (made in China) flag waving Hillbillies, don't forget that you wouldn't even have your independance if it hadn't been for the bloody French helping you. Yeah, that's right, those cheese eating surrender monkeys you run down at every opportunity actually fought alongside you to kick us enlightened and morally superior English out. You made your bed, now you gotta lie in it

How things have changed. Enemy into best friend and friend into back stabbing puss.

And I'd like to clear something up; I dont buy China crap, and monkeys dont surrender, France does.