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DC Sniper: Manchurian Candidate?

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posted on Nov, 1 2002 @ 10:58 AM
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From Dave McGowan:

Two unlikely suspects have been selected to play the roles of the feared DC snipers: John Allen Muhammad, commonly described as a 41-year-old 'drifter,' though until fairly recently he had spent his entire adult life in the military; and a 17-year-old Jamaican immigrant named Lee Boyd Malvo (also identified as Lee Byron Malvo and John Lee Malvo), who entered the country illegally several years ago.

The pair allegedly conducted their killing spree by utilizing what police have described as a car that had been modified to create a mobile sniper's nest. There are, alas, numerous problems with this scenario. And there is certainly no shortage of weirdness surrounding the alleged exploits of the pair.

Consider the following:

Muhammad's ex-wife, with whom he has had a stormy relationship marked by bitter custody battles, recently relocated to the DC area to take a job at, of all places, John Ashcroft's Justice Department. This peculiar fact, though reported by the British press, has been curiously absent in the blanket coverage of the case by the American media. (www.observer.co.uk...)
Two years ago, Muhammad kidnapped his own children, in clear violation of a court order, and took them out of the country for an extended period of time. There is no indication that he was charged with any crime in connection with these actions, nor for repeatedly threatening his former wife.
That same former wife charged Muhammad, in court documents, with tapping her phone line. No indication has been given as to how Muhammad acquired the skills and equipment to do this. (www.latimes.com...)
The rifle allegedly used in the shootings was purchased in June from a Tacoma, Washington-based dealer operating under the name "Bull's Eye Shooter Supply." The shop, located near the Army's Ft. Lewis base, is owned by a former U.S. Army sniper instructor. Muhammad completed his lengthy tour of duty at Ft. Lewis, which has, curiously enough, a sniper training program. (www.latimes.com...)
But wait ... according to investigator/writer Jon Rappoport's newsletters, the Bushmaster rifle that authorities first tried to connect to Muhammad was actually purchased by him from a different Tacoma gun dealer known as "Welcher's Gun Shop." The problem is, apparently, that Muhammad subsequently sold that gun back to Welcher's, who then sold it to another customer, who still has the gun in Tacoma. Rappoport claims that these transactions were confirmed by Welcher's employees. In order then to put another Bushmaster in Muhammad's hands, it was claimed that he had, after selling back the first rifle, purchased an identical one from Bull's Eye. If Rappoport's information is correct, and taking into consideration the ownership of Bull's Eye, it is conceivable that the second rifle purchase was fabricated after the fact.
Though Muhammad is generally portrayed by the media as a chronically unemployed drifter who stayed at homeless shelters, he doesn't appear to have had problems with money. Consider all of the following facts which have emerged in various press accounts:
Before kidnapping his children, Muhammad was ordered to pay nearly $900 per month in child support ($869, by one account), indicating that the court had reason to believe that he had a fairly substantial income at the time.
He has reportedly owned, or co-owned, several businesses, including a karate school, an auto repair shop, and something called, strangely enough, "Reality Enterprises." (www.latimes.com...)
A number of witnesses have commented on the incongruity of an allegedly homeless man who always had money to spend. The L.A. Times reported that a former girlfriend told her family that Muhammad's "story didn't make any sense ... He was a hard-luck drifter with money, a man who could pick up and fly to the Caribbean whenever he got the inclination." The same Times report added that "She wasn't the only one asking questions ... The director of the shelter has said [of Muhammad] ... 'He was rather secretive about his past and present ... He was closed-mouthed. He didn't have a visible source of income, but he was able to travel at a moment's notice.'" (www.latimes.com...) The Independent Online noted that with "no apparent means of support, Muhammad and companion John Lee Malvo traveled from the Caribbean to the north-western United States, and points in between, over the past year and a half. How they financed their activities remains a mystery." The man who runs the homeless mission where Muhammad last stayed in Washington state, Reverend Alan Archer, was reportedly "amazed to see Muhammad getting phone calls from a travel agent." Archer recalled that Muhammad flew off on ski trips to both Denver and Salt Lake City. (www.iol.co.za...)
While living in Antigua, with no visible means of support, Muhammad nevertheless was able to send his three children to an exclusive private school. (www.iol.co.za...)
Two years ago, Muhammad, an American citizen born and raised in Louisiana, obtained an Antiguan passport -- allegedly by lying about who his mother was. Why he would be taken at his word and not required to show proof of Antiguan citizenship has not been explained. (www.latimes.com...) Also unexplained is why he was issued the passport in July 2000, although the Antiguan government claims that its records don't show Muhammad entering the country until May of 2001. (www.iol.co.za...) Was Muhammad traveling on that passport between July of 2000 and May of 2001? And if so, to where?
Initial reports speculated that Muhammad had received sniper training. The Army has subsequently denied this. Most reports now hold that Muhammad, throughout what the Times described as a "checkered, 16-year military career," never distinguished himself as a skilled shooter. (www.latimes.com...) As the Times explained: "All soldiers entering the Army undergo basic training with M-16 rifles. Once every year, they have to requalify, earning 'marksman,' 'sharpshooter' or 'expert' marks. Muhammad ultimately earned only a sharpshooter mark, so to compare him to a military sniper would be inaccurate." (www.calendarlive.com...) Indeed it would. To even be considered for admission to the Army's sniper schools reportedly requires three consecutive 'expert' rankings. Muhammad could not even manage one such score over the course of sixteen years. He could though, rather amazingly, score head shots on live targets from up to 500 yards away, even while firing from inside a cramped car trunk with limited visibility. Imagine that.
But did Muhammad have more training than what is officially acknowledged? He frequently claimed that he had. Was this just baseless boasting?
The WSWS reported that "various sources indicate that Muhammad liked to boast about his service in the army and claimed to be working for the CIA and FBI." While applying at a government office on Antigua, he "claimed to have attended 'Special Forces/ Sniper School' in the US military and to have 'taught urban warfare.'" In the summer of 2002, Muhammad told a nephew in Baton Rouge "a dubious story about working for the Central Intelligence Agency." (www.wsws.org...)
Muhammad further claimed that Malvo was also a highly trained operative, recruited for his ability to infiltrate the youth culture. (www.msnbc.com...)
The Guardian reported that Muhammad "appears to have told friends" that he had received training as a sniper and had served in Special Forces. (www.guardian.co.uk...)
Muhammad's former business partner in the karate school also recalled being told that his partner had served in Special Forces. (www.guardian.co.uk...)
Muhammad's alleged accomplice, just seventeen years old and with no formal firearms training, is claimed to have been the gunman in some of the sniper shootings. Reports claim that Muhammad trained Malvo in the use of firearms by taking target practice on a tree stump in the backyard of a Tacoma home -- as though hitting a large tree stump from across a backyard is equivalent to hitting a human target from hundreds of yards away, from an awkward position within a car trunk.
According to published reports, neither of the two had ever lived in the Washington, DC area. The pair arrived there just prior to the time that the shootings started. Strangely though, they had a thorough enough knowledge of the area to locate strategic sites from which to shoot, and to map out escape routes that enabled them to evade capture.
The car, a 1990 blue Chevrolet Caprice acquired just before the shooting spree began, is a former police cruiser that was purchased from a New Jersey auto dealership named (and this, I have to say, is a nice touch) "Sure Shot Autos." (www.latimes.com...)
I should probably add here that a blue Chevy Caprice bears strikingly little resemblance to a white van or box truck.
And I should probably also add here that the nation was witness to some of the most brilliant police work in recent memory when someone saw fit to release a "composite sketch" of a featureless, white box truck, and have it plastered all over the nation's television screens. Could anything have possibly been more counterproductive? You can imagine the calls flooding into the hotline: "Yeah, I think I counted 27 of them sniper trucks today."
Just hours before the suspects were arrested, Chief Charles Moose - who has become a fixture on cable and network newscasts - issued via national television what appeared for all the world to be a post-hypnotic, 'triggering' cue. As the Guardian described it: "Hours before the arrest yesterday morning of the two men now believed to be responsible for the string of murders around Washington, the Montgomery county police chief, Charles Moose, made his strangest communication with the then-unknown suspects. Swallowing hard, he began to read from a prepared statement. 'You indicated that you want us to do and say certain things,' he said, as mystified reporters looked on. 'You asked us to say, quote: 'We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose.' We understand that hearing us say that is important to you.' Investigators offered no illumination of the reference, even after John Allen Muhammad and Lee Malvo were taken into custody yesterday." (www.guardian.co.uk...) Just hours later, the suddenly known suspects were found sleeping soundly, and were promptly taken into custody without offering any resistance. They were only a few miles from both the first and last shooting scenes. That final surreal announcement followed a series of increasingly bizarre, cryptic communications by Moose to the purported snipers.
At one point, Moose pleaded with the suspects to call police on the phone number that had supposedly been left behind in a message from the sniper. No one in the media bothered to ask why, if the number was in fact left by the sniper, the police were now imploring the suspect to call them on that number. Did the sniper leave the police their own phone number, just in case they might have forgotten it?
Prior to last year, John Allen Muhammad was known as John Allen Williams. He changed his name just in time, it appears, for the media to be able to portray him as some sort of Islamic fundamentalist. Eleven years ago though, Williams served in the Gulf War, demonstrating that he apparently had no reservations about participating in a brutal assault upon a predominantly Islamic nation. (www.guardian.co.uk...)
Muhammad has been described by various witnesses as an extremely controlling man who exerted an extraordinary amount of influence over his young accomplice. Their relationship has been described as "drill sergeant/recruit." (www.guardian.co.uk...) Some reports claim that the pair first met in Antigua, while others suggest that they first teamed up in Tacoma. No reports have offered much insight into how or why this odd couple became partners.
Muhammad was not at first booked on murder charges, but on charges of harassing his ex-wife two years ago -- thereby illustrating that police did indeed have enough evidence to charge Muhammad with crimes for the actions that he had taken against his ex-wife, but had previously chosen not to do so.
As previously noted, Malvo entered the United States illegally. Not long before the sniper killings began, he was detained by the INS, who were aware of his status as an illegal immigrant. Strangely though, he was subsequently released. Under normal circumstances, Malvo would have been deported and John Muhammad would have been incarcerated before the sniper shootings even began.
It is asserted by the police that someone claiming to be the sniper told them in a telephone conversation that they should "take him seriously," and that if they had any doubts about that, they should "check with the people in Montgomery." (www.guardian.co.uk...) If this conversation did in fact take place, which seems rather doubtful, the logical conclusion to draw would have been that the sniper was referring to Montgomery County, Maryland, where six of the sniper's victims were shot. For some inexplicable reason though, police immediately focused their attention on Montgomery, Alabama. Nearly instantaneously, they then claimed to have connected the sniper killings to a seemingly unrelated robbery/murder, which was committed with a handgun of a caliber not known to have been in the possession of Muhammad or Malvo. Why the investigators turned their attention to Alabama, why they focused on this particular unsolved crime, and how they were able to suddenly identify a previously unidentified fingerprint, are all questions that police have not bothered to provide answers to.
The L.A. Times reported that there were a number of items in the suspects' car at the time of their arrest that seem a little out of place in a homeless drifter's vehicle. In addition to, of course, the Bushmaster rifle, scope and bipod, there was a Sony laptop computer, a pair of two-way radios, and - as one might expect to find - a global positioning system. (www.latimes.com...)
That same Times report implicates Muhammad in the February 16 murder of a 21-year-old Tacoma woman. The link to Muhammad was made as follows: "Tacoma Police Chief David A. Brame said at a news conference late Monday that a Tacoma gun hobbyist he declined to identify had befriended and housed Muhammad and Malvo for several months this year. The gun owner came forward after the two men were charged in the sniper rampage. Brame said the man voluntarily turned over to police a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and a .44 magnum revolver that he said he had loaned to Muhammad on occasion during the first six months of this year." Ballistic tests purportedly revealed that the .45 was used for the murder, and the .44 was used to vandalize a synagogue. Obvious questions arise: Who is this mysterious "gun hobbyist"? Is he a member of the law enforcement community? Why did he "on occasion" loan his guns to a man he had known for only a few months? For what purpose did he think the guns were being used? Why isn't the "gun hobbyist" himself a suspect, and why is his identity being protected?
On October 30, the New York Times reported that "State and federal investigators said today that John Muhammad had been talking to them for more than an hour on the day of his arrest in the sniper shootings, explaining the roots of his anger, when the United States attorney for Maryland told them to deliver him to Baltimore to face federal weapons charges and forcing them to end their interrogation." The investigators complained that Muhammad had waived his right to an attorney and was talking freely when federal prosecutor Thomas Di Biagio shut their interrogation down. Di Biagio claimed that he was acting on orders from the White House and the Justice Department, though both seem to have distanced themselves from Di Biagio's actions. Investigators claim that they felt confident that they could have gotten a confession out of Muhammad. Federal officials claimed, rather remarkably, that they weren't really interested in a confession. An unnamed "senior federal law enforcement official" was quoted as saying: "Tell me what more we need from them? We have the ballistics. We don't need the confession." But was it a confession that the federal officials were worried about the investigators hearing? Or was it something else? Whatever it was, they won't be hearing it now -- the Times report noted that, "since then Muhammad has not talked to investigators." (www.nytimes.com...)
The Independent Online noted in passing, without elaboration, that Muhammad's ready supply of cash may have been due to a "combination of odd jobs and crimes that included human smuggling." (www.iol.co.za...) Is that what Muhammad's rather mysterious travels were really all about? And if so, on whose behalf was he working?
Clearly there was someone, or some entity, bankrolling Muhammad's activities. Who were his hidden benefactors? The media will likely either avoid the issue entirely, or will attempt to link Muhammad to some sort of 'terrorist' organization, though it isn't likely that many fingers will be pointed at his most likely benefactor -- that world-wide terrorist organization that we all know and love as the CIA.
This bulletin includes only the bits and pieces of incongruous information that have emerged thus far through various avenues of the media. While there is far more that has yet to be discovered, it is already clear that there is much more to this story than what has been presented to the American people.




posted on Oct, 1 2003 @ 05:07 PM
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I had heard bits and pieces of this,but this is the first time I've seen it all put together.(not to be rhetorical,but,)why won't any mainstream media jump on this if all of these loose ends are there to illustrate what is going on here?Why won't the Democrats use this to further their"Bush Scandal Campaign"?
Is the MKULTRA program getting sloppy?
Then again,I see that there isn't that much interest on the subject here on ATS,much less out there in Mundanesville.Perhaps this would qualify as a research project,and when a report is compiled and formatted,submitted to the media,and then NOT reported,then you can turn it on it's head to be a scandal about the media whitewashing the fact that government trained assassins are using civilians for target practice.I'd work on a project like that.
This is overt government sponsored evil.
Does Anyone Care??????



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 12:56 PM
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The DC Sniper case is not what it seems, as portrayed by the mainstream media. It was a distraction.

Read Operation Northwoods!!!!!! Run a google search. There is a wealth of information pertaining to it. The string of terror was a play lifted straight out of its heinous pages. Williams, a/k/a Mohammad was a government operative. It was a campaign to terrorize the populace.

Read Northwoods here:
www.gwu.edu...



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 01:01 PM
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Here's another link to some analysis of Operation Northwoods:

www.rense.com...



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
From Dave McGowan:
Just hours before the suspects were arrested, Chief Charles Moose - who has become a fixture on cable and network newscasts - issued via national television what appeared for all the world to be a post-hypnotic, 'triggering' cue. As the Guardian described it: "Hours before the arrest yesterday morning of the two men now believed to be responsible for the string of murders around Washington, the Montgomery county police chief, Charles Moose, made his strangest communication with the then-unknown suspects. Swallowing hard, he began to read from a prepared statement. 'You indicated that you want us to do and say certain things,' he said, as mystified reporters looked on. 'You asked us to say, quote: 'We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose.' We understand that hearing us say that is important to you.' Investigators offered no illumination of the reference, even after John Allen Muhammad and Lee Malvo were taken into custody yesterday." (www.guardian.co.uk...) Just hours later, the suddenly known suspects were found sleeping soundly, and were promptly taken into custody without offering any resistance. They were only a few miles from both the first and last shooting scenes. That final surreal announcement followed a series of increasingly bizarre, cryptic communications by Moose to the purported snipers.


This smacks of mind control. Just like the Manchurian Candidate. I ran across this article at Rense.com:
18,000 Pages CIA Mind Control Documents Released. Check it out.

www.rense.com...



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 02:40 PM
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He is likely a brainwashing candidate that went out of control. There is also the possibility that he was run as part of a program for gun control, not sure yet.

His young protege is interesting too. Not sure how he fits into all of this.

But what is most interesting is how the media has downplayed the importance of his being a muslim convert in all of this debauchery especially considering 911.



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 03:01 PM
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theneo,
I'd bet good money on the fact Williams is an operative. He was allowed to slip through the legal cracks from Tacoma to the Caribbean way too many times. Trace his steps. Any normal person would have been thrown in jail long before. Not to mention the fact, the man had plenty of travelin' money as the article points out.

The statement Moose uttered was a mind control trigger. It makes NO SENSE at all, otherwise. It's quite possible both Williams and Malvo were brainwashed. That's the only explanation for why they were found sleeping soundly UNDER A LAMP with a Bushmaster laying conveniently in the backseat. And why they were apprehended without any struggle.

I don't believe they were responsible for the actual shootings either. The whole car-shooters nest thing is pure ridiculous. You ever shot an automatic weapon in a prone position? I have and I don't buy that bu# for a moment. (especially when they claimed the hole was roughly the size of a coke can. ) How ya gonna see out of it to shoot if the weapon's on a tri-pod? Williams was too damn long (6'-something) to lay in any car and shoot, besides.
hen there was the whole white van theory. I believe a black ops sniper team made of 3 or more people did it. They most likely eluded capture through a network of safehouses. When the time came, Patsies Williams and Malvo were given their cue. And presto! Chief Moose got his "sniper." The whole government line is pure horsesh*t.

You might have something, though, concerning your theory that it related to gun control. I still maintain, tho, it was foremost a distraction. Also, it opened up further the (ILLEGAL) use of military operations within the US - which is forbidden by the Posse Commitatus Act.

It was terrorism! Whether the establishment called it that or not!



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 03:21 PM
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East,

good points. there were lots of stories about other suspicious people in vans going around that may have been doing the shooting. Quite possible. Some rumoured that it was a Chinese operation? Does that make any sense?



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 03:50 PM
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THENEO, I believe it was a covert US black ops team using a white van. I havn't heard anything to give me reason to believe the Chinese - or anyone else might've been involved. You got info. on that?

Have you read Northwoods? It's one helluva smoking gun for a blueprint. It applies to 9-11 as well.



posted on Oct, 2 2003 @ 04:04 PM
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Yeah, ive always wondered why the media maintained that it was a white or brown van that was doing all the shootings. then all of a sudden law enforcement swoop in on a blue chevy caprice out of no where. when i heard it i was like, "how the hell did they know this guy was in a chevy caprice? I thought he was in a van" all the witnesses said the shots most likely came from a van. but sure enough, the cops found the shooter(s) in a chevy caprice, no mention whatsoever as to how they obtained this fact. this whole thing is so strange it boggles my mind. thank god for paranoid discussion on ATS, all my friends think im psycho



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 07:43 AM
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You're not psycho at all, insite.
Those people are brainwashed sheep. Keep thinking for yourself!
If you look at all the facts, the official story does NOT add up. Not by a longshot.

Sowing confusion:
Here's a quote from a news article:

www.sunspot.net... te.md.van18oct18,0,2444578.story?coll=bal-home-headlines-headlines

TextThis report is talking about a van that was taken into custody. A shell casing matching the Bushmaster weapon was found. This story went up in a puff of smoke.
scholar.lib.vt.edu...

(nats..investigators)
IF POLICE HAVE A PROMISING LEAD, THEY'RE NOT REVEALING IT. THEY DID IMPOUND A WHITE BOX TRUCK RETURNED TO A VIRGINIA RENTAL AGENCY..AND WILL TEST A SHELL CASING FOUND INSIDE.. ... BUT AUTHORITIES STILL WANT THE PUBLIC TO LOOK FOR THE TRUCK WITNESSES REPORT SEEING AT SOME OF THE SHOOTING SCENES.

More:

www.newsmax.com...



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 07:58 AM
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that is facinating....... i never understand what was going on with the dc shooting's

whats all this mkultra stuff ect ect..

and whats northwoods?

anybody got any links..



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 08:14 AM
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Good points made here but we should also consider that until we know more that they do have the actual suspects.

The background of the individuals is very convincing.

I believe one of three scenarios are the likely answer here:

1. Our suspects did this and the secret is the muslim connection that no-one is talking about.

2. Our suspects had nothing to do with this and are only patsy's

3. Our suspects did this but were mind controlled slaves acting out someone else's directives.



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by The Blade Runner
whats all this mkultra stuff ect ect..

and whats northwoods?

anybody got any links..


MK Ultra is a government mind control project. Your basic 'How to create an assassin program. If you do a google search, plenty of info. will come up. It's well worth studying.
Operation Northwoods was a discarded government operational document prepared for President Kennedy by Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer (Chairman of Joint Chiefs) and his joint chiefs. Author James Bamford discovered it after receiving documents through a Freedom of Information Act. Kennedy balked at Lemnitzer's plan and ordered it to be destroyed. Instead, someone hid it between the pages of countless other documents. It is a blue print for terror within the US and Cuba. The point was to engineer war with Cuba and to frame Castro.
Here is a link to Northwoods:
www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

Here's some analysis of it:

www.rense.com/general18/harm.htm

If this doesn't alarm you, nothing will. It shows what dispicable lengths certain individuals within our government will go to in order to achieve their ruthless aims.



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 08:25 AM
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theneo, no. 2 is your best bet. Study it from beginning to end. Here's one list.
www.newsmax.com...

RESEARCH!!! Keep an open mind and trust your judgement - do not let the media shape your opinion. Their "best" analysts were wrong from day one.

As usual.



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 12:18 PM
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Hey east coast,

Remeber right after the OK city bombings, Biull Clintons whole spiel for gun control?

ERven though guns had nothing to do with the whole thing? He just started going on about gun control. Period. And no one noticed the obvious. I was in Saudi when it happened. Yet even I remeber that from the news we got on CNN over there.

Timmy Mc Veigh, another army veteran.

Interesting, neh?

And both Mc Veigh and Williams belonged to exterimist religious and racist ideologies.

Two army vets terrorizing the people they once were required to defend. Two extremist racist religious people with contacts still in the network.

Are you seeing where Im getting at? Two opposite presidents, one democrat, one republican. Mc Veigh, under the democrat, was an arguement agianst white militias, gun control, ect. The black one, under the republican, was a silent rebuke of Muslims and foreigners.

What Im saying: Both sides, libberal and coinservative, going at two different angles to strip us and control us. What set of rights one doesnt rob, the other will.

I think they work at the same goal, but go two different paths to ensure all bases are covered.



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 01:16 PM
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Skadi -
Are you familiar with the Hegelian Dialectic? Basically both sides are controlled by the same master. You obviously already understand.
I have always maintained the OKC bombing was an inside job. Extensive research points directly and overwhelmingly towards it. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AT ALL on these matters.
I believe both McVeigh and Williams/Muhammad were assets of some degree.
Ok, folks are gonna say.. Inside job? What's the motive?
In every circumstance we have to ask first and foremost - who stood to gain? In the case of OKC, in the weeks and months leading up to that assault, the Klinton administration was fighting an unwinable battle to pass draconian anti-terrorist legislation. The Republicans in congress would not stand for it. The act, by the way, pales in comparison to the Patriot Act 1 and 2. If you recall, the press was also labeling Klinton as irrelevant. Then BAM! Down comes the Murrah building. The nation was stunned and gripped with TERROR. Guess what happened - IMMEDIATELY? You got it. Klinton was suddenly "quite relevant" as our feeler in chief and his legislation was passed without a peep. Welcome to the Gulag, kids.



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 01:53 PM
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Yep, east coast. That sums it up.

Both sides serve the same master.

Clinton was trying to eliminate militas, period, because organized Militias within his own borders were a threat. Gun ownership was a threat to the administration.
And people were increasinly paranoid about the govornment. Waco. Ruby Ridge. Clinton wanted to fight the threats to his power and control within the country. He set up brutal concequences for people who opposed him. he was a left wing dictator. He supported Free Trade and made Nafta. He was the other side of the coin.
The OK city bombing was VERY suspicous, like the collapse of the WTC, the wreckage was carted off too quickly, and the absence of ATF agents in the building was odd.
And notice, a DAYCARE was in the building. Now, the govornment has always been under the threat of bombs and #, long before even the collapse of the soviet union. Putting a daycare in a high threat building, a GOVORNMENT building? What were they thinking?
Obviously, thier intent is transparent: kill a bunch of kids and youll never get support for your cause. Period. Thus, the children were used as human shields.

Now that Klinton the Commie os gone, we have Dubya the fascist in office, working from a different angle. In the end, the result is the same.

Timmothy Mc Veigh was a pawn, a tool.

And a question: was Timmy Mc Veigh REALLY executed? remeber that movie, with Bridget Fonda, about the woman who was executed, but not, instead, it was a fake execution, and she was shipped off elsewhere? Tho it is fiction, its not entirely impossible you know.

Timmothy Mc Veigh, the doctors who performed his lethal injection, instead just gave him a sedative to make people think he was dead, and carried him off elsewhere to a safehouse. Ive often wondered if he really is dead. has anyone heard anything about that?



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

And a question: was Timmy Mc Veigh REALLY executed? remeber that movie, with Bridget Fonda, about the woman who was executed, but not, instead, it was a fake execution, and she was shipped off elsewhere? Tho it is fiction, its not entirely impossible you know.

Timmothy Mc Veigh, the doctors who performed his lethal injection, instead just gave him a sedative to make people think he was dead, and carried him off elsewhere to a safehouse. Ive often wondered if he really is dead. has anyone heard anything about that?


Halelujah! Someone else out there actually came to the same conclusion!!!
Who the hell knows if he's dead or not? We the sheeple will never know. They could have easily given him a certain drug to slow his pulse to the point of comatose just you said SKADI.
Unlike the BS story, I believe he was recruited straight out of Special Forces training and became a valuable man in the field. He was in the TOP 5% of all combat related personnel in both intellect, abilities and fitness. They don't throw folks like that away. They could have given him plastic surgery and a new identity for all we know.
A reporter that was on the scene of his "termination" later reported she saw him breathing after he was pronounced dead. Everything about it was unusual. And did ya'll know Chandra Levy worked for the Fed. Bureau of Prisons, specifically on arranging media for the McVeigh execution. Weird connection, huh?

ps.. On the guns and militia.. I think the Klinton administration could see them becoming a possible threat to him. They sho did go into overdrive trying to demonize them and gun owners in general. There's a lot of speculation concerning random shootings perhaps not being so random. More like manchurian candidates killing to create fear so we'll disarm. NEVER DISARM!



posted on Oct, 3 2003 @ 02:30 PM
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Damn east Coast!

Chandra levy, who is now dead, worked for the prisons? And was part of the media coverage of the execution? And a reported said she saw him breathing again? Damn, you got any good links that looks at this possible spin on Mc Veigh, about the possibility of him being alive?

Of course, youre right tho.....Mc Veigh was simjply too valuable for them to ever totally execute. His service record, his abilities, ect were entirely too much for them to simply toss out. he has future uses. A little platic surgery, a little fingerprint tinkering, ect, and you got yourself a new idenityty.

As far as the militas are concerned, Ive often wondered how many of them are simply "sleeper" units. Like, planted CIA/FBI units that basically disguise themselves as backwoods hick rednecks in a Militia, stir up a little trouble and fear, ect. Manchurian units, so to speak. Perhaps thats what Mc Veighs militia buddies were?

And notice, both Mc Veigh and Williams were......GULF WAR VETERANS. You were over there during the first gulf war....can you tell me, what REALLY went on over there? What the hell was up?

Some of my buddies in the army, they were in during the gulf war and told me some wierd things. perhaps you remeber more wierdness?

Either way, Mc Veigh wasnt totally alone. What about Nichols? He was an army buddy as well......anything interesting about that character?



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