Hey Skeptics

Just a general question here for the more skeptical members of ATS.
Why, of all the web sites and discussion boards, are you here on the largest conspiracy board on the internet? I hate Brussel Sprouts, for example, absolutely can't stand them, so I'm not likely to participate on a discussion board about Brussel Sprouts, or spend much time trying to convince lovers of Brussel Sprouts of the errors of their ways. I don't like Hip Hop music, and to date I have not been to, nor participated in a single online discussion of Hip hop, nor do I feel compelled to do so because it's just not something I would find fulfilling.
Do you come here just for the love of debate, are you looking for someone to convince you of something, do conspiracy theories anger you? Is there some nagging suspicions you are looking to quell? Are you so concerned for our well being to the point that you feel compelled to come here and save us from damnnation? Are you so convinced of the righteousness of the system that you feel you need to defend it from those who would defame it? Is someone paying you to post here, some vested interest in ridicule perhaps? Is it a egocentric need to belittle the opinions and theories of others? Do you just enjoy arguing? Do you find conspiracy theories so ridiculous that you feel you serve some greater good?

I don't mean this question facetiously, I am genuinely curious as to what would make you want to come to a Conspiracy Related Discussion board, so before you give the 'I have as much a right to be here as you do' line, that's not what I'm getting at at all. My purpose for asking this is rooted in my profound frustrations at having to argue with you guys all the time rather than discussing the Conspiracies with other like minded fellows, and a morbid curiosity as to why skeptics feel so compelled to come here and debate with us. Why on earth are you here of all places on the internet?

The same reason people congregate to watch train wrecks and car accidents.

Morbid curiosity

Besides -- some of the wackier conspiracy theories posted here are great comedy. Best laughs on the internet.

Hey Skeptics

Hey!

Why, of all the web sites and discussion boards, are you here on the largest conspiracy board on the internet?

Two reasons. One, because of the vast amount of information and discussion available here - it's a fantastic resource for anyone who loves to learn new things, and likes reading. Two, because of the general level of civility present in the conversations. I know it may seem, sometimes, like it's bad here, but it aint. It's bad everywhere else, and this is GREAT by comparison.

I hate Brussel Sprouts, for example, absolutely can't stand them, so I'm not likely to participate on a discussion board about Brussel Sprouts, or spend much time trying to convince lovers of Brussel Sprouts of the errors of their ways.

I don't think your analogy is apt. Debating the merits of a particular food or music is a matter of taste. Debating conspiracies is a matter of fact - what happened, where, how, when, and why. We're trying to come to a common understanding of history and current events, and in some cases (my favorite), the future.

Do you come here just for the love of debate, are you looking for someone to convince you of something, do conspiracy theories anger you?

Yes, no, and no, respectively.

Are you so convinced of the righteousness of the system that you feel you need to defend it from those who would defame it?

Me personally, no. I think the system is rotten to the core. There are some people who can't let go of their assumptions, because without those, the world is a scary and complicated place. Just like folks who can't come to grips with the beatings of a drunken husband, or the drug addiction of a troubled child, many skeptics seem hell-bent on disproving conspiracies simply for their own peace of mind.

I think I'm a skeptic for all the right reasons. It's important to examine everything very, very carefully, in this environment, because with the advent of the internet, the conspirators have changed tactics out of necessity. It's no longer a matter of removing the information from sight (site), that's almost impossible in many cases. Now, it's a matter of burying the real info under a mountain of false info, that serves to both obfuscate the truth, and render the truth-hunters jaded.

It's a balance beam, between open-mindedness and gullibility.

Is someone paying you to post here, some vested interest in ridicule perhaps?

Dude..I wish. If I could get paid for doing this, I would probably die of acute bliss poisoning.

My purpose for asking this is rooted in my profound frustrations at having to argue with you guys all the time rather than discussing the Conspiracies with other like minded fellows, and a morbid curiosity as to why skeptics feel so compelled to come here and debate with us.

I think you're unfairly lumping all skeptics together. Well-meaning investigators are different from partisan weenies. The former have no vested interested in spreading lies and deceptions, on the other hand, for the latter, lies and deceptions are bread and butter. Because to them, we're not all in this together, to them, it's a team sport. They want to win.

I get the sense that you weren't talking to folks like me, who have a genuine interest in the truth, but I felt compelled to respond because I do consider myself a skeptic. I guess the difference is in the quality of that skepticism. For some it's a defense mechanism against the painful truth, for others, it's a necessary filter to keep from getting duped.

The way I see it, having accurate information is a necessity. It's a survival tool. Nature has spent millions of years perfecting our sensory organs, and the brain that makes sense of the input, to help us make good decisions and stay alive. I'm just trying to use my brain as nature intended - no sense in leaving a sports car in the garage.

Originally posted by twitchy
Why, of all the web sites and discussion boards, are you here on the largest conspiracy board on the internet?

I generally like to be the smartest person in the room, and around here, it's easy. Much conspiracy theory is developed around making illogical or unsubstantiated inferences between bits of apparent pieces of "evidence." They are attempts to fill in the gaps of knowledge that are naturally found when practically anything is dissected to a high degree. The trouble is, most people either have too much imagination and try to connect too many dots, or they don't have enough imagination and fail to see why their particular conspiracy would be impossible to function and maintain.

I like to see good evidence. And if someone has any, I'll give it a look. Unfortunately, what passes for "evidence" around here is way too often a lot of second-hand rumors or purposeful distortions, or some blurry, grainy photo or video that allows you to see "elephants in the clouds."

I want there to be something sinister and secret going on. It would be cool. But I also like to hold the conspiracists to a high standard of proof, because I don't like to be a sucker, like so many other folks.

I personally joined this website so i see all sides of every story. Remember,
everything you read on here isnt true.

So by your reasoning we shouldnt discuss and debate something that we dont believe
in just because its a conspiracy webste?

Deny ignorance is not just for the devout believers you know.

why skeptics feel so compelled to come here and debate with us. Why on earth are you here of all places on the internet?

Uh.. where else are you gonna go?

And so if you see a laughable hoax of a video or something, you're not supposed to
say anything cos it might hurt your feelings?

It would be a very boring website if it was full of just one sided views.

One of my favorite quotes on this subject is from the French mathemetician Henri Poincaré:

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.

I've used it here as my signature, off and on. It's as much appropriate here as it is in the world of mathematics, or anywhere else for that matter.

I approach most new information with skepticism, whether it's a new conspiracy theory here or a new technology being introduced at work. That doesn't mean that I have an instant dislike for it, or that I will go to the ends of the earth to debunk it, just that I cannot take it as given yet. I use critical thinking skills to figure out if the information presented seems valid, and make my decision based on that conclusion.

For example, if someone proposes an "International Conspiracy of Evil Podiatrists" bent on world domination through the insideous manipulation of shoes, and says that they've channeled all information from their past-life incarnation as Z'tkun the Atlantean mystic stoned to death for eating a hot dog on a Friday, I'd put that theory in the same category as the marketing drone's phone call at working promising that his or her new program can "increase standard dialup speeds to the equivalent of a DS-3.

On the other hand, if the conspiracy theory is well-presented, coherent and contains references that I can check out myself it goes into the same mental slot as a marketing professional calling to tell me about a download accelerator that can help speed up dialup users' web browsing by compressing images before downloading them.

Unfortunately we're not encourage to use critical thinking skills often. Without going into too much of a rant on education (a topic for a different thread) kids are being conditioned to expect the answers be given them, instead of learning how to evaluate things for themselves. When I was teaching high school, kids in my 4th year French class were absolutely stunned that I would ask for their interpretations of a passage in the book we were reading. Seniors in high school and they'd never been asked to do that before.

I see the same thing online, and not just here. To be honest, I expect it a bit on sites like ATS. We deal in the fringe here, and as such we get some folks who've gone a bit (or a lot) over the edge. I see it on technology sites, on education sites, pretty much any place I visit regularly I see it. The thing about ATS, and the other sites that I continue to visit regularly is that they do encourage their members to approach things in, if not a logical manner, at least a coherent and skeptical manner. This raises some hackles. People think that just because you're asking questions, because you're addressing the weak points in their arguments, that you're predisposed to disbelief. In most cases that couldn't be farther from the truth. The reason we ask tough questions here on ATS is that we desperately want you to be right. We want to learn that the world is a bigger, more magical place than is presented on Friends reruns. We, each of us, hold out the impossible hope that the world isn't as banal as it sometimes seems. We ask the questions we do because we hope the weaknesses are a result of poor editing on your part, not poor thinking. When we ask the questions, we're rooting for you.

Originally posted by Enkidu

Originally posted by twitchy
Why, of all the web sites and discussion boards, are you here on the largest conspiracy board on the internet?

I generally like to be the smartest person in the room, and around here, it's easy.

Doesn't leave much room for growth, does it?


1 Anyway, Not believeing everything you see in the news leads you to a place like this. Skepticism gets you here.
2 You can't make a news anchor see reason when he's just reading a piece of paper over the airwaves. Here, your opinion holds some, maybe not much, but some weight.

Why do I visit this place? Look at the motto of the boards

The Skeptical Tinfoiler

I'm a skeptic, and I consider ATS to be far and away the coolest discussion board on the Internet.*

By "skeptic" I don't mean "cynic", "critic" or "debunker", although I think each of those philosophies plays a valuable role in communities like this.

I'm a skeptic because I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong about anything.

I consider skepticism to be the ultimate form of intellectual honesty. By being mindful of my own fallacy, I avoid the trap of blinding myself with false beliefs -- or I should say avoid it more often, since I am certainly no stranger to error.

Because I seek to maintain healthy skepticism, my world remains dynamic, mysterious and fascinating. Questioning everything controls (but never eliminates) my natural tendency to construct and embrace specious prejudices.

Though many of my fellow members speak of skepticism in derogatory terms, I consider skepticism to be the ultimate virtue because it always leaves a door open to the truth.

I would rather my mind be kept open by skepticism than slammed shut by certainty.




*I know that may sound like hype, but let's face it: if I knew of a better board, I would be spending my time there instead of here. I'm here because this is where I want to be.

Very well put, Majic.

"Deny ignorance" is the motto of this site only because "be skeptic" doesn't sound as cool.

I was raised in a very religious family and told to BELIEVE. I tried to for 20 years, but couldn't overhear that little voice in the back of my head: something's wrong. Go figure out. That's why I became skeptic. That's why I started roaming the web. And that's why, ultimately, I have signed up on ATS. Because that's what it seems to be to be all about: being skeptic about what you are told, discuss with others, bundle knowledge and experience and come a little closer to truth (or whatever you may call that funny thing others go to war for).

[edit on 12-8-2006 by Akareyon]

None of the really hardcore ATS 'skeptics' I was hoping would reply have showed up to post here, drats! Perhaps I should have entitled the thread "Hey Debunkers" or something similar, as skeptic seems to be too broadly defined. I don't want to nessecarily call anyone out but I wanted to angle this question more towards the members here that show consistent patterns of debunking topics regardless of the evidence put forth. The ones that generally seem to think 'we' are conspiracy nuts in other words.
Wyrdeone, majic, and others, having read more than a few of the discussions you guys have been involved in I can honestly say you guys are genuinely open minded and receptive to new information and aren't what I had in mind when I say skeptics. Of course nobody wants to come out and say "I'm a closed minded hardliner and I think you guys are crazy", but we know they are here, and I really would be interested in knowing what draws that specific mentality to ATS.

Good thread, but as you've said, a lot of the really hardcore skeptics aren't showing up.

There are a handful of members (a couple of them mods!) whose sole purpose on these boards seems to be shooting down any idea originating outside the cognitive walls that delineate their reality.

It amuses me, though, to find the little incongruities in these skeptical beliefs, to look through the posts of these hard-nosed men and women of science and find the one or two really kooky ideas they happen to admit. I'm not going to get too specific, because getting banned is just no fun, but even the wet-blanket skeptics have their moments of human (or superhuman) fallibility.

I guess what keeps me posting here is the idea that just because the other guy is more confident, or just louder, in his convictions doesn't necessarily make him right.

Originally posted by twitchy
I hate Brussel Sprouts

people being hateful is what is wrong with this world.

maybe you should try some melted cheese or a little salt and your eyes will be opened to the odd , yet beneficial taste of brussel sprouts.

i think skeptics come here because the subject matter here is huge, and the people here have more intelligence then most other net forums. it adds up for a good debate or decent conversation, or just pure enlightenment. plus some people just like to disagree.