Well if you use a source which has lost his reputation then you have every right to be questioned, the peoples have every right to say what they will about your post because it is associated with the source which has no credibility.

What is my definition of proof? ... Well that easy, it is a mix of a well thought out presentation where all parties finally agree on a similar explanation. I want photos, I want government documents, I want high level OFFICIAL people to testify. I want the pay stubs and the tax filings of all these "whistle blowers" and I want government files on every last one of them, I want to know where they worked, when they worked, their secrecy clearance, I want their source of education, I want mental evaluations of all those involved. Then I want full scientific backing of all claims, I want to know how everything works the way it works, if you honestly want to debunk everything NASA has told us, that our science teachers sense kindergarten have taught us.. then I want the EXACT same proof they gave us, only in your claims. That is, NASA can say why Mars is red and they can give us detailed reasons why.. John Lear can say that a man who no longer speaks to him told him a story once so its credible.

Lemme put like this. Tolkien wrote the Lord Of The Rings trilogy... he sure did give a good description of his world.. but does that mean Middle Earth exist?...

Harry Potter series is a work of literary genius.. you could almost think it must be real.. if you where 5 right?

Any one can right down anything they so wish to.. the Internet has made it so no one needs a professor to say its right or wrong, no one needs an editor.. no one needs to back up their claims.. essentially .. you can lie your pants off and there are people dumb enough to believe it.

Your story, their story I should say.. has NO CREDIBILITY REGARDLESS OF WHO SAYS IT. They have no proof.. they have a claim.. a claim is so absurd that it requires SOME KIND of proof before it should even be faintly considered. If it where presented to a scientific community they would laugh them out of the room, and rightfully so.

Carry on.. where all adults, most of us, most of us act like it anyways right? .. Lets keep thinking there is a parallel world that only the super human minded government knows about.

At some point in life fairy tales should end..

Individuals like Burisch and other known frauds would have no outlet without hoaxers and charlatans like Bill Ryan.

Why do you think Bill got the boot from ATS??? When it was proven that he was being deceptive, he was escorted to the door. No one should ever knowingly promote a hoaxer and con man. Ever. Period.

Think about it this way - I can make up a great story, create an identity, offer no proof and if it appeals to those who put away their critical thinking skills when it comes to areas like this, Bill Ryan will interview me and then promote the video.

What exactly do you find valuable in that approach?

Originally posted by observe50
You can make cloud busters that work with just putting the pipe and makings into the ground it doesn't have to be in water. You can make them for several dollars with pipe, coil shavings, crystals and a few other cheap items, which you can get at Walmart and the car supply stores like Pep Boys.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by observe50]

Have you built these busters and used them? If so then make a thread about them because I am interested but never talked to anybody about this. I think in all the time I've spent around here it has only been mentioned a couple of times before.

Originally posted by Shawnna
Individuals like Burisch and other known frauds would have no outlet without hoaxers and charlatans like Bill Ryan.

Why do you think Bill got the boot from ATS??? When it was proven that he was being deceptive, he was escorted to the door. No one should ever knowingly promote a hoaxer and con man. Ever. Period.

Think about it this way - I can make up a great story, create an identity, offer no proof and if it appeals to those who put away their critical thinking skills when it comes to areas like this, Bill Ryan will interview me and then promote the video.

What exactly do you find valuable in that approach?

While I appreciate, and can see where your coming from Shawnna, I think you also have to be very careful in these instance, that you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, you can't discount everything, just because they are related in someway to someone you believe to be a charlatan.

Gary Mckinnon is not a hoaxer, or If he is, he's probably going to spend the rest of his life in jail because the American Government believes his story, so I think it would be more sensible to take each case on its own merit.

I do take each case on it's own merit. But I also factor in the choices made by each individual with respect to who they choose to deliver "their message".

What I won't do is promote or in any way support an individual or company who knowingly promotes hoaxers and con men. And that is what Bill Ryan is doing.

And with all due respect White Rabbit - the fact that the American Government publicly supports or discedits something or anyone is irrelevant. In fact, it would make it more suspect either way IMHO.





[edit on 28-10-2006 by Shawnna]

Thank you ladies and gentlemen - although there seems to be some dissent and the usual ATS banter assuming personal-jibe proportions, the clever insight reveald 'between the lines' and the morsels of truth (subject to interpretation, of course) is still a worthwhile exercise of inquiry.

IMHO the problem with most (all) of these interview videos, whether Lear, Burisch, Greer, et al - is that they all recount colorful tales of previous exploits and plenty of assertions and conjecture so far none have really 'disclosed' ANYTHING of substance. The average lay, curious, inquisitor - like most of us on ATS, must remain content with promises of pending technology disclosures, coming hard evidence, eventual public appearances, irrefutable UFO landings, and other alien/UFO awareness:someday. Soon. We promise. Really. Trust us.

The absolute sure dates come and go. New vague dates are tossed out; in the next month, by the end of the year, withing six months, yadda yadda yadda...

My thanks to the OP for bringing this interesting video to our attention. Just another talking head, but a miniscule bit of additional knowledge may be there.

As for the REAL disclosure - the HARD evidence to be shared by all, well, that my friends, is still a ways off - perhaps a long way off. That would be unfortunate, but we should be prepared to continue our patient waiting... waiting... waiting...

Soon, depends on how you want to take the word soon.

Next week
Next month

Soon could be ten or twenty years, maybe 100 years.

Well, Project Camelot recently received a BUMPER update!
-Brand new interview with Dan Burisch (LOVED the bit where he took a pot-shot at SERPO hahah)
-Mindblowing interview 3 1/2 hours long, with David Wilcock. This one is unmissable, it puts all the pieces of the puzzle together - what we are here for. Really great.
-Bill Holden interview - interesting stuff
-Jim Sparks interview - he confirms that the rubber alien 'head' that Bill Holden displayed was indeed authentic, like a "true grey", not the worker grey hybrid type. He is also a multiple abductee. Hundreds of times.

There's a LOT to see. I recommend David Wilcock, then Dan Burisch. If you're still hungry, download the others. We're all trying to put the puzzle together, so it's great how all these people cross-reference eachother, this is one of the good things that Project Camelot intentionally does. They often ask questions related to information from other interviewees as a means of cross-referencing and to keep everything on the same page - as disparate as the subjects may be from eachother.

Finally, it's sad to come back to this thread and STILL see people flat-out attacking the credibility of all the participants on Camelot, and pontificating from their close-minded standpoint. Please give it a rest. If you don't support Project Camelot, or think it's a load of cobblers and their message is all disinfo and charlatans... then please refrain from posting. It makes the thread appear unfocused and derailed all over the place. I was hoping for positive discussion as I assumed most of us as people seeking truth on the ufo subject are on the same page. Or do we simply Ignore The Facts and continue to snipe "Burisch is a fraud" and similar unhelpful remarks. Project Camelot have had guys like John Lear and Ralph Ring as guests - these are people respected by ATS, and a Ralph Ring ATS interview is about to be released soon - Project Camelot are fighting on the same side as us, not against us.

EDIT: - oh I see the poster making all the big noise in the thread was banned... ...in that case, please disregard my last paragraph; and play fair with these people, listen to them first.. then judge them.


[edit on 2-9-2007 by RiotComing]

Camelot videos deleted from Google

18 of our 30 videos have (again) been maliciously deleted from Google. This means we're clearly doing something right. All our material is securely backed up in several locations, but it'll take a few days to re-upload all the deleted videos. We apologize for the inconvenience. Attacks like this will never stop us. If the hacker or agent responsible is reading this, take note that we just become even more determined to make the truth available to the widest audience.

I'm convinced more than ever that someone out there considers Camelot to be too close to the truth.

The Dan Sherman interview is now up there, but for someone who declared that he had 'concrete' communications with an alien contact, he is very vague and doesn't say a lot. I don't really know what to make of that particular video. When he said his mother was abducted and had his DNA altered inthe womb - well, how would the military possibly know this (and keep track of him over the course of his coming of age)? If it was a totally alien encounter, did the aliens keep records and pass them onto the military? Sounds like the 'treaty' agreement until it went awry in the 60s and the aliens stopped declaring abduction information. It all sounds a bit far fetched to me, but I would like to understand the specifics, the process of how the aliens abducted somebody and passed on the results of the experiments to the military. UNLESS, Dr Greer was right all along and it's the military carrying out the abductions themselves and trying to pass off themselves as aliens. That way, the dna alteration is carried out by the military, the information remains in the military, and the recipient stays in the military.

Or perhaps the whole thing is 100% BS. I'm just not quite sold on the Dan Sherman story. Some things tie in well, other things remain unexplained or non-specific. Kerry tried her best in the interview process to dovetail things, but I don't think she got the answers to be satisfied with. Neither did I. Maybe the time travel subject, she tried hard to reconcile what Dan Sherman said with Dan Burisch's testimony. It's a tangled web to weave. And whoever took their Google links down are determined to shoot it all to bits.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Well if you use a source which has lost his reputation then you have every right to be questioned, the peoples have every right to say what they will about your post because it is associated with the source which has no credibility.

What is my definition of proof? ... Well that easy, it is a mix of a well thought out presentation where all parties finally agree on a similar explanation. I want photos, I want government documents, I want high level OFFICIAL people to testify. I want the pay stubs and the tax filings of all these "whistle blowers" and I want government files on every last one of them, I want to know where they worked, when they worked, their secrecy clearance, I want their source of education, I want mental evaluations of all those involved. Then I want full scientific backing of all claims, I want to know how everything works the way it works, if you honestly want to debunk everything NASA has told us, that our science teachers sense kindergarten have taught us.. then I want the EXACT same proof they gave us, only in your claims. That is, NASA can say why Mars is red and they can give us detailed reasons why.. John Lear can say that a man who no longer speaks to him told him a story once so its credible.

Lemme put like this. Tolkien wrote the Lord Of The Rings trilogy... he sure did give a good description of his world.. but does that mean Middle Earth exist?...

Harry Potter series is a work of literary genius.. you could almost think it must be real.. if you where 5 right?

Any one can right down anything they so wish to.. the Internet has made it so no one needs a professor to say its right or wrong, no one needs an editor.. no one needs to back up their claims.. essentially .. you can lie your pants off and there are people dumb enough to believe it.

Your story, their story I should say.. has NO CREDIBILITY REGARDLESS OF WHO SAYS IT. They have no proof.. they have a claim.. a claim is so absurd that it requires SOME KIND of proof before it should even be faintly considered. If it where presented to a scientific community they would laugh them out of the room, and rightfully so.

Carry on.. where all adults, most of us, most of us act like it anyways right? .. Lets keep thinking there is a parallel world that only the super human minded government knows about.

At some point in life fairy tales should end..

Your quest for this so called proof is going to lead you nowhere I'm afriad. And the sad thing here is that you look for proof in the wrong way, just like the Sanhedrin did from Jesus. People like you are easily decieved because you only believe things that come from "OFFICIAL" sources as you stated. This my friend is what we refer to as argumentum ad verecundiam. Even in the bible the sanhedrin asked Jesus what "qualifications" he had, is this not the carpenters son ? What good can come from Galilee ? Do you see a trend here ? - Nothing has changed in all this time, Human beings are still the same proof seeking close-minded fools they always were.

The idiots demanded proof, and when they actually saw it, instead of believing him, they turned and said he did it with the power of the devil. It just goes to show that they would never have been satisfied in the first place. This is basically what it means when it says, "Having eyes they do not see, having ears they do not hear" Hard hearted. What a shame.

To leave a quote from Albert, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - seeing as knowledge comes from KNOWING, to know you must have seen something tangible or witnessed some proof, and yet, Albert seems to regard imagination as more valuable.

Here is another great quote from Albert:

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

And that dudes, is the problem...

Thanks for the post, great interviews.

As far as proof goes...

This is just a guess but, if any of these people had irrefutable proof of what they had to say, the government would probably chase them down like a dog.

I have worked as an engineer in the aerospace and defence industries most of my career. During which I have worked with hundreds of engineers and scientists. Frankly, Dan B and Bob L. don't strike me as having the least bit of technical expertise. There are some others on Project Camelot that I have not yet decided that includes Bob Dean although he sort of flakes out toward the end of the interview I saw.

Originally posted by GeeGee
Thanks for the post, great interviews.

As far as proof goes...

This is just a guess but, if any of these people had irrefutable proof of what they had to say, the government would probably chase them down like a dog.

Yea, people like Burisch and some of the other people that they have interviewed are great. To be honest the only interviews that I had a prob with were the Duncan O Finnioan and Gorden Novel interviews. Just something about them doesnt seem right. Especialy Gorden Novel, some of the things that he said seemed to me like he was an advocate for the NWO and that he wanted to promote it through that interview and presenting it to the conspiricy community less blatently then how we see it through our research. (Im really sorry about my bad spelling)

-fm

I've just finished watching John Lear's interview, If you read this John you've done a good job on that interview, I have got a few questions but I'll u2u them to you a bit later