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What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

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posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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What can we do to stop racisim? Stop talking about it. Racism is learned. Stop the discussion and it will die.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by kleverone]




posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.


REPLY: Even this part of your Sig. says a lot, as "virtuous" people do things the right way, which in this case would be to follow our current immigration laws before and during entrance to this country. If the illegals were so vituous, and want a better life, they'd stay in Mexico and fix the problems of their own country, which would benefit everyone there.
The idea of wanting a "better life" is a red herring. Drug pushers and bank robbers want a better life, too, so where's the empathy for them?


Stop talking about separations of races. Stop talking about how some races should have programs and scholarships and months set up for them. Stop the division.


REPLY: You need to get those ideas to Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton, the two main race-baiting poverty pimps, but they won't listen. If your ideas were to come true, they'd be out of work, and they would no longer be able to extory money from cities and corporations.


And for those who are undocumented workers, they have to deal with not only the perceptions of the classes above them;


REPLY: "undocumented workers" is the PC term for illegal aliens/criminals, who had to deal with those same issues in Mexico; they could have stayed home and went through the same thing.


today's society is getting the message from their politicians, the media and the government that it is okay to discriminate


REPLY: Not long ago it was a virtue to be 'discriminating", but the term has been hijacked and tortured by the special interest groups.


Why is that not racism towards white people or other races?


REPLY: It IS racism, but it is never viewed that way. Even hate crimes, when done by a no-white, are not called hate crimes. When the time comes that whites are a minority in America, do you think we'll get special rights for minotities? Hell no we won't.


black Americans don't get reparations...hell, we get shouted down everytime we mention it.


REPLY: The entire idea of reparations is a bad one. Reparations for slavery were already paid for by the blood and lives lost in the civil war. The reparations issue is still around, and, if allowed to pass, then all the money paid out in special interest programs should come out of that money first, which is a lot more than any amount of money some feel is due them.

In actuality, then some of the reparation funding should come from those black families in Europe, who facilitated the roundup and sales of Black people.

Actually, Blacks weren't denied any "Civil" rights, they were denied their Constitutional rights. Thankfully that was made right. However, the whole idea of "civil rights" has become a bane on our country and economic system, as it has been taken over by special interest groups, whose entire existance is based on the continuation of racism and separation of groups of people. For example, being a homo is NOT a "civil right."

"diversity" only for the sake of diversity is not a good thing. Any employer will tell you that. If people hired on merit and work ethics alone, diversity would happen all by itself.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
The entire idea of reparations is a bad one. Reparations for slavery were already paid for by the blood and lives lost in the civil war.


To be fair, slavery was not the only issue that caused the War of the Rebellion. It was also about federalism, expansionism, sectionalism, economics, and modernization. As well as the right for the South to rule itself - which is why thinks like the Corwin Amendment were rejected.

The notion that slavery was the only reason, is laughable. However, I am sure you were not aware of this. As you'd not want to be posting any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. Now would you? Furthermore, many Black people, Tribal Americans and other ethnic groups were invovled in the Civil War and died.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply, Odium. Now, it turns out thatI'm in a hurry - I'll get back to you later.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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posted by donwhite



posted by HarlemHottie

[DonW] You are so right. And what an excellent turn of phrase, "their accommodation to the American reality."


Currently there are 2 especially atrocious ads on tv. One has a black man commenting on the questions of a white woman. I think it is a GEICO ad. Right now I'm forgetting the other one. Back to you later if I remember before ATS shuts off my edit privilege.


The second ad, HH, is the current Oreo cookies ad. It features a grandmother type, African American, who is a waitress, and a youngish - say 5- 6 yrs old - child also African American, who engage in a contest to lick the white stuff off the Oreo cookies. Ugh!

Who do they employ to screen these ads?




[edit on 8/12/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
The second ad, HH, is the current Oreo cookies ad. It features a grandmother type, African American, who is a waitress, and a youngish - say 5- 6 yrs old - child also African American, who engage in a contest to lick the white stuff off the Oreo cookies. Ugh!


What's wrong with this? If it were a white grandma and child, it would be ok? For many years, people have been licking the white stuff out of the center of the Oreo cookies. It's not a racial thing. White people are waitresses, too. I don't get the problem at all.

Should advertisers be so uber-sensitive that they say, "Oh, no we can't use black people for this ad because it is about Oreo cookies and that's a racial slur"?

Please explain to me what's worng with this commercial... Thanks.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
The second ad, HH, is the current Oreo cookies ad. It features a grandmother type, African American, who is a waitress, and a youngish - say 5- 6 yrs old - child also African American, who engage in a contest to lick the white stuff off the Oreo cookies. Ugh!

I, too, would like to know what is so bad about this commercial? I think you owe us an explanation, donwhite.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
I'm glad that you hope that the suffering of slavery will never be repeated. But, I think, by all due respect, you are missing the point. And terribly so.


Then please explain to me what the "point" is? I’d be very interested to hear your explanation even though I think I know what you might say.


Originally posted by ceci2006
However, I'm not surprised by your response. You are that type of person that plays lip service to not being racist and in the next breath put down Arabic people for being terrorists.


Huh? Please NEVER act as if you know me, mmk? I haven’t made any accusations towards you so please in return keep baseless claims and my name out of your posts ok?


Originally posted by ceci2006
By all due respect, there is a racial hierarchy at play. People like you perpetuate it with responses like yours.


As I said not at all, all people like me are doing is not bending over backwards for something we were not a part of.


Originally posted by ceci2006
1)What would be the remedy for Blacks in light of all this suffering if reparations are not an applicable solution?


Well, the remedy for blacks who have never suffered a day of slavery and "oppression" in their life would be to take advantage of all the options and opportunities at their disposal and make the best of it, just like everyone else who has to work for what they earn. You think me and my family got what we have from people giving it to us? My father worked his ass off 30 years in construction so we could have a decent life. Those that work hard will do very well in life, trust me, those that expect entitlements will never understand why that is.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
The remedy would be equal treatment under the law and in the culture. Black people have equal treatment under the law, but the culture is still 'cheating' at equal treatment. That's where the problem is.


No. It is a problem that even though we have these laws, still there are acts of racism that happen every day. These laws are not being entirely enforced. I don't think the Black community is "cheating" at equal treatment when there are people who still practice racial animus and work to prevent progress.


There's no way we can or should make-up for the suffering of people in the past. If we did that with black people, we'd be obligated to do it for women, too. After all, women are still suffering from cultural inequality, too, even though they too have equal protection under the law.


By all due respect, I think that you are still taking an apathetic stance toward this issue. People can make up for the past by trying to recognize that racism happens every day and work toward trying to understand the suffering of others.

There is a difference between women and Black people. White women, especially, still have the protection of affirmative action. That means that they too are part of the group demanding "hand outs". Yet, their plight is mainly relegated in a governmental stance to not being able to vote and not being able to own property. They of course suffered from the patriarchal system in many ways. But they were still held up on that pedistal--to the point of exacting racial violence on any Black man who looked at them. That's how Emmett Till was lynched.

In order to vote, White women did not have to take literacy tests or pay poll taxes. They didn't have crosses burned on their lawns. Nor, were they lynched.

Black women could not vote, could not own property, were dehumanized, used as "breeders" in slavery to produce more slaves, treated as chattel (and cattle), beaten, abused, and also took the position of "slave mistress" by the slave master. He could use her sexually and at the same time work her. And then if she "acted out", she was punished by not only the master, but the overseer. Even the "nice white lady" she worked for (Miss Julie or Miss Scarlett) could abuse her as the Master's wife. And after that, she had to rear the Master's children, clean his house, prepare the dinner and take care of Mistresses' wardrobe.

One cannot forget that scene in which Miss Scarlett slapped Prissy in GWTW (1938). I'm sure that showed the difference in the level between women, did it not?

Black people, on the other hand could not vote, could not own property, were separated from society, intimidated from participating in society, used like cattle (and chattel) on plantations (some of which was in the service of white women), and dehumanized by the dominant culture so much so that its effects are still being practiced today by people who don't give a damn.


Ceci? Do you think reparations are in order? For just black people or maybe for Japanese Americans and women, too?


For Black people, some sort of apology or restitution should be in order to publicly acknowledge our suffering.

Japanese people who were in the "Relocation camps" have gotten reparations.

Women are a part of affirmative action. They tried to pass the ERA in the 1970's, but that failed in Congress. But, I think that restitution is quite difficult but necessary, only because women of different races have been treated differently by the system.

Out of all of us, Native Americans do deserve reparations because they were systematically relegated to arid land, abused, tortured and had their rights taken away due to "Manifest Destiny".


Am I giving up my natural way of being because society won't accept me unless I do?

Isn't it really my choice?


I am glad that you are getting the point about "giving up culture", but you are missing the boat about "white privilege".

"White privilege" will always allow you to speak and do the things you want to without serious retribution. And yes, how you speak is your choice. But, you will never have to worry about serious social isolation, the fear that the receiver of the message will perceive you as ignorant and having a bad attitude, and the fact that people will lecture you about your behavior.

Black people have to deal with that kind of ill treatment every day. White people always judge us on how we speak and place us in degrees of intellect, class and behavior. And they use "white privilege" to justify it as such.



Don't I make the choice based on the results I want?


You do. But the people who practice this against you also have a choice--either to treat the speaker fairly or not. And most often for Blacks, they don't.




[edit on 13-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally quoted by WestPoint23

Then please explain to me what the "point" is? I’d be very interested to hear your explanation even though I think I know what you might say.


The legacy of slavery and Jim Crow still is affecting race-relations today. It affects every societal institution.



Huh? Please NEVER act as if you know me, mmk? I haven’t made any accusations towards you so please in return keep baseless claims and my name out of your posts ok?


But you didn't deny it. It tells me quite a lot.


As I said not at all, all people like me are doing is not bending over backwards for something we were not a part of.


You are definitely a part of it. You have to think about the attitude you portray to others regarding race. There are people who treat various races differently because of attitude. And I have to agree with HH. You do pretend as if racism doesn't exist.

(It's funny how no one comments on the posts related to "white privilege" and "racial ettiquette during Jim Crow" but that's another post for another time).





Well, the remedy for blacks who have never suffered a day of slavery and "oppression" in their life would be to take advantage of all the options and opportunities at their disposal and make the best of it, just like everyone else who has to work for what they earn. You think me and my family got what we have from people giving it to us? My father worked his ass off 30 years in construction so we could have a decent life. Those that work hard will do very well in life, trust me, those that expect entitlements will never understand why that is.


I am happy for your father. He probably worked his butt off very hard. But, woefully, even that doesn't explain the inherent racism at play within society.

I'm sure he didn't have to worry about intimidation and retribution if he "spoke out" against the system. I'm sure that he could put that down payment on any house in any neighborhood he wanted without worrying about bringing the real estate prices down. I'm also sure that decent life included him to sit at any lunch counter and be served first, opposed to others of color who have waited a long time to be served. I'm sure he didn't have to worry about social mobility because it was automatically afforded to him without the glass ceiling. And of course, he never had to worry about people automatically assuming that he was ignorant, lazy and having a bad attitude because of how he spoke or acted.

About entitlement, I beg to differ. Please read Peggy McIntosh's list and tell me what you think. To her, it seems that white people because of "privilege" have been getting unexpected "entitlements all thier lives"--opposed to a few kernels tossed to those who "expect entitlements".

I don't think you noticed, though, but you did practice a bit of bias in your speech. You automatically assume that Black people are lazy. By your words, you don't realize that there are Black people who have worked just as hard as your father and even longer, but unfortunately had to deal with twice as much as he. And they don't get promoted because of attitudes similar to yours belonging to their bosses. They work for thirty years or more (like my relatives who worked on the rail roads laying track for years) and get little pay or benefits.

You also don't realize that Black people have had to work in demeaning jobs for quite a long time serving the dominant culture without pay, with the same hopes of education and social mobility. But laws (and "red-lining" later) prevented them from moving up. Plus they had to face laws and intimidation by people like yourself when they wanted to better themselves and bring opportunities for their children. This is still going on. There are many Black people who are struggling to make it, yet fall under the scrutinizing eye of the dominant culture. So, au contraire, mon ami.

It sounds as if you are benefitting from "the privilege" and cannot see the forest for the trees. You have unwittingly gotten handouts and benefits, but don't want to acknowledge it--not even to yourself.

In fact, humor me.

1)Do you know what "red-lining" is? Why was it practiced?

2)Why is Sweatt vs. Painter(1950) important?










[edit on 13-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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The Nonexistent Race


Originally posted by ceci2006
Black people have to deal with that kind of ill treatment every day. White people always judge us on how we speak and place us in degrees of intellect, class and behavior. And they use "white privilege" to justify it as such.

Indeed, what a "privilege" it is to not have to worry about people judging me by my skin color, despite the fact that I'm forced to endure precisely that every day of my life, even online.

God forbid that I should somehow deviate from the obnoxious stereotypes foisted upon me by those who should know better.

No, it simply cannot be, because I must be judged by the color of my skin just like Dr. King said I should, right?


We are all brothers and sisters, but racism is more than skin deep, and it's not just a problem with "those people".

No, it's much more insidious and pervasive than that.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 11:01 PM
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I'd love to know a deaf blind mute mans view of the world.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally quoted by Majic

No, it simply cannot be, because I must be judged by the color of my skin just like Dr. King said I should, right?


By all due respect, it is not an obnoxious stereotype. It occurs quite often. It's very sad that Dr. King's words are always hijacked to ease away from the racism that often happens by the dominant culture. And these particular words are always used to prove "reverse racism", but never to correlate the fact that racism against people of color happens every day by those who purport to "judge others by the content of their character".

Dr. King and Mrs. King ought to be rolling in their graves right now. After all, no one ever adopts Dr. King's stance on poverty or peace. It always has to come down to "judging one's content of character and not their skin color". And it is appropriated to prove that people aren't "racist" while they continue the same shameful behavior in their daily lives. I wish this was true, but until people honestly examine the disparities between races there will be judment on skin color and not content. And if people truly begin to examine what these disparities are, then we can truly start rectifying the situation and start the healing.

I'm sorry, Majic. But judgement from the dominant culture against Black people happens every day. Even in this thread. No one notices it or cares. And people continually play the game of denial. There's no other way to explain it unless someone dresses up in Black face and experiences the difference in treatment that occurs. Until that happens, there will be denials and false sentiment toward Dr. King and his words.

Who is willing to dress up in Black face for a day?

[edit on 12-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 02:41 AM
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Speaking Only For Myself

I'm going to be unusually direct in this post. This will be somewhat strident, but it's honest. I hope you won't take it the wrong way.


Originally posted by ceci2006
I'm sorry, Majic. But judgement from the dominant culture against Black people happens every day. Even in this thread.

My point is that bigotry is bigotry, regardless of who practices it, regardless of "dominant culture".

When you pass judgment on an entire group of people for passing judgment on an entire group of people, what does that give you, other than the dubious distinction of committing the same sin?

Isn't false generalization what the problem is to begin with? "Us" versus "Them"? "All you people are that way"? "You must be treated differently because of your race"?

Where's the racism? Substitute the word "white" wherever you use the word "black", and vice versa, and see if it passes the reciprocity test.

Going around saying "white people do this" and "white people think that" is just as bigoted as saying the same about blacks.

I am not a representative of any point of view but my own, and I refuse to take responsibility for what other people think or do.

Racist bigotry, on the other hand, demands that I do, and conform to a stereotype that does not describe me.

I reject racism -- in all its forms.

Monochrome Rainbow

Trying to stereotype me for being white is no better than trying to stereotype me for being black.

Both derogate the significance of the individual, both make false assumptions based on skin color, both are examples of racist bigotry and neither is better than the other.

Judging people by the color of their skin? This is the evil Dr. King spoke of.

And the topic is racism, not Dr. King's views on poverty or peace.

Racism. Let's talk about it.

Mirror Mirror


Dictionary.com

rac·ism
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

As you observed, there is no shortage of racism in this very thread.

To be blunt, I see you practicing the very thing you preach against, and it is consuming you with its bitterness and vitriol.

Want to change the world? Change yourself.

Want to solve racism? Stop practicing it.

We should never forget the past, but we shouldn't live in it, either.

The future starts now.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 03:12 AM
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By all due respect, I am not speaking about this with bitterness or vitrol. In fact, I'm pretty neutral about issues about race. Discussing race is like talking about the weather to me. However, I have changed quite a bit. I am not as idealistic as I used to be. And now, I have to deal with the attitudes of others about me. And I've come to the conclusion that even though there are wonderful and insightful people in the world, there are just others that don't give a damn about my people and will say so.

And to be frank, other posters have been just as racist and worse when discussing this topic. But unfortunately, few people recognize it.

What I am saying are not generalizations. They have yet to be disproven by anyone. And in my experience, they occur.

The problem with me is that I still have empathy. I do give a damn about people from all walks of life. I care about peace and tolerance. That is why I started a thread like this one. However, I am not perfect. I am trying to understand people better. How many people will admit this? Not very many.

I understand exactly what you are saying. But you have to think about it this way.You come from a culture that is constantly validated in the media, in government and in society. Because you see people like yourself being validated everyday, what I am saying would seem like it is vitriol and almost heresy. And for most people like you, it would seem shocking because they never had to think about this before and never had to deal with voices from other races speaking of the disparities in treatment. Most people like you would brand this as "screaming about race". To a lot of us who are non-white, this isn't. It is a part of everyday life that we have to go through.

In what other way should people who are non-white talk about disparities in treatment?

Truly, this is an argument that is based on power and treatment. The main question is, who is treated better in society? Truly?

Secondly, when using terms as "white people this" and "black people that", I just have to ask if there is a better way to typify the behaviors of different races? You are not the first to say this to me. Yet, when I am around other races of color, we have no problem when separating behaviors with races. But white people (sorry Majic) have this problem. And I wonder why.

Just because I say that a "white person" does something does not indicate any anger or animus. It simply is my opinion. That's all. Some people agree. Some people don't.

I am just confused why is it that people are so angry when a person of color says, "White people do this", when in the same breath the very same speakers put down black people for being "ignorant, rude, uneducated, racist, having a high births out of wedlock and in jail." It really is ironic, knowing that I would be harped on for being racist, while in the same way others of the dominant culture feel free to say anything they like about any other race without being accused as such.

That is the price of privilege: to have the freedom to talk about another race without being raked over the coals for doing so.









[edit on 13-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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And You And I

Please forgive my personal comments. My concern about that is not even based so much on what you post, but how much you post it.

I'm sure you can agree that this topic has a dominant place in terms of what you discuss on ATS.


But sorry, that was a personal comment -- and therefore inappropriate -- so again, please forgive me for the lapse.

I'm taking a little break and actually posting in the public forums for a change, and I just want to get as much in as I can while I can, so I'm not always remembering my manners.


Racism exists, and it is widespread. I'm not suggesting otherwise. It's everywhere for those who choose to see it.

I seriously doubt that anyone reading this truly thinks racism doesn't exist, or that equality reigns supreme in the world. Quite the opposite, and I certainly cannot deny that.

And I'm not.

What I'm saying is that racism won't go away until each of us makes a decision to stop feeding it, and we feed it by letting it control our thoughts. It is best not to gaze into the abyss too long.

Rather, it is up to us to put racism behind us and move forward.

It starts by getting rid of "Us and Them".

Instead, let it just be "You and Me".





[edit on 8/13/2006 by Majic]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 04:33 AM
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Fair enough. Your apology is accepted, Majic. And it is okay. I understand what you are trying to say. And I don't always stare into the abyss. Most of time is spent trying to build bridges with people instead of burning them down.

But in all due respect, I think that discussing my opinon about how I view race is not feeding racism. I am talking about my experiences just as other posters talked about theirs.

So, if we are being truly equal here, everyone is feeding into racism then by discussing their opinions about race. All of us are staring into that abyss. So we all should be chastised just the same.

So what in your opinion is being accomplished?

Being silent while the disparity in treatment happens? Or informing others to be aware of the disparity in treatment so they can be sensitive enough to recognize it and change it?




[edit on 13-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
No. It is a problem that even though we have these laws, still there are acts of racism that happen every day. These laws are not being entirely enforced. I don't think the Black community is "cheating" at equal treatment when there are people who still practice racial animus and work to prevent progress.


Well, of course you would assume that I meant that the black community was 'cheating'. In truth, I was talking about the white culture still cheating. When I said "that's where the problem is", I meant that even though blacks have equal protection under the law, they don't get equal treatment in the culture because white people who do the hiring or whatever find ways around the law.

With all due respect, you're so defensive, you can't even seem to recognize when someone is agreeing with you.



Originally posted by ceci2006
I think that you are still taking an apathetic stance toward this issue. People can make up for the past by trying to recognize that racism happens every day and work toward trying to understand the suffering of others.


I don't care what you think about my being apathetic. You are wrong. You assume way too much about me. I was fighting the racism fight before you were born. I have acknowledged many times that racism happens, I have been immersed in black culture, I have had hundreds of discussions about it, confronted people in public about it, 'preached' about it and cried about the suffering of others.

How dare you tell me I'm apathetic? That's just another insult you sling around. I wouldn't have answered you post for post on this subject in several threads if I were apathetic! Do you know what the word means? And please don't apologize. I grow weary of your verbal assaults followed by 'genuine, sincere' apologies. No sweet, apologetic U2Us please.


Originally posted by Majic
When you pass judgment on an entire group of people for passing judgment on an entire group of people, what does that give you, other than the dubious distinction of committing the same sin?
...
Going around saying "white people do this" and "white people think that" is just as bigoted as saying the same about blacks.
...
Want to solve racism? Stop practicing it.
...
What I'm saying is that racism won't go away until each of us makes a decision to stop feeding it, and we feed it by letting it control our thoughts. It is best not to gaze into the abyss too long.


I just wanted to highlight a few very valid and meaningful majic words.


Originally posted by ceci2006
In fact, I'm pretty neutral about issues about race.




Well, maybe that's the difference. I'm not. It's really important to me. As is discrimination in all its ugly manifestations.

And I've realized something I'd like to share. We both say we want equality and racial respect, good race relations and to end racism. But I've realized that even though we're using the same words, we're fighting different battles.

We're fighting different battles because we don't agree on where we, as a society, are now or how we should move forth. We both want the same ends (I think) but we're beginning from different points and are using different means, and we acknowledge different indications of progress... so we cannot fight side-by-side. We end up in a battle between ourselves because we disagree so radically about where we are and how we should get to the other side.

Our perspectives are so different, we nearly cancel each other out.

So I'm not even going to try to stand beside you and fight with you because I so strongly disagree with you that it doesn't do either of us justice. I want no part of your struggle. You have a chip on your shoulder the size of a barn and you can't see it. But it shows, darlin'. And it really gets in your way.

Good luck in your fight, though.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
So, if I may, I would like to gently encourage people to hear her out. Disagree ... but hear her out. Even if the stuff she says is completely off the wall, crazy, you don't even understand how anyone could think that- just read it, and process it.


HH, I honestly feel I have done my very best. And your request to do so had a lot to do with my continuing presence in this thread and my interaction with Ceci and her opinions and thoughts, because I respect you a great deal. I just feel we're at an impasse.

I'm sorrier than I can say to find that a sizeable portion of black people shares Ceci's opinions and thoughts. It only explains to me why racism is such a strong continuing force. I knew that a lot of white people contributed to racism - but I had no idea the extent to which black people also contribute to it until my participation in the race threads here on ATS. I actually thought Ceci was an anomaly. But to hear that many people feel the same way she does is certainly disturbing to me. I find it very sad and disheartening that anger and resentment drive much of the communication between black and white people as regards race. I honestly thought we were farther than that.

But I guess it can only be expected that some black people won’t be satisfied with moving toward a neutral ground or an equal stance. A new slate, a fresh beginning sometime in the future isn’t good enough. They want something more. They want payback of SOME SORT. They want the pendulum to swing the other way, if only for a short time. They feel robbed and want to be reimbursed. The pendulum is swinging down to its lowest point and sometime in the future, it could arrive there and be stopped by us all working together. But if there are large numbers who insist on continuing the movement and forcing it to the other side so they can feel compensated, then I’m afraid the momentum will only continue to grow and swing back harder the other way when the time comes.

If we were all committed to forcing the pendulum to stop at its lowest point together despite those who are against that movement, we may actually see the end of racism in our time, but with a sizeable portion of black people interested in keeping it moving, then I don’t know if we’ll ever see the end.

I hope you know that there are many white people who do in fact care to a great degree. I just get so tired of being shot down as apathetic and told that I don’t have the capacity to understand simply because of the color of my skin. And I’m sure you can understand why I don’t care to ‘hang in there’ and keep trying.

I will certainly continue on my path as regards racism and discrimination of all kinds, but I will do it in my way. With love and understanding, not anger and resentment.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:32 AM
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Benevolent Heretic, who explained that “it” was a “she” wrote about my claims that “all white people” owe the black people for the past advantages white’s took from the blacks. She said she took nothing and owes nothing, if I have read her rightly. Other posters have also objected to the idea that people in 2006 owe anything to anyone because of what people did in 1806 or 1906. I disagree.

I claim prescience, but not omniscience. I can see things others do not see. Hmm? That’s a risky claim alright, but a topic for another thread. Back to race. Slavery. America’s albatross. The sin “we” have not atoned for. The tragedy that afflicts America today. And yesterday. And will tomorrow.

How much more proof of it do you require than to reflect that here we are, in 2006, discussing this issue as if this was 1860. I gave the short answer to Ceci when she asked, “What can we do about racism - say slavery - today?” (Not an exact quote despite my use of quotation marks. Like my attribution to B/H above.) To which question I replied, “Not much.” I know of no national purgative we can take to be easily rid of it.

So why do I think whites owe blacks? I dunno. Do today’s Germans owe the forced laborers of WW2? Do the Japanese owe the captured Americans for their forced labor? Do the Swiss bankers owe the descendants of Jews who deposited their money before going off to Auschwitz? Do Americans owe the survivors of the Tuskegee experiment? 390 black men experimented on for 40 years. 1932 to 1972. Why did we - collectively - hold black men in such low regard in 1932? You know without me having to remind you, we would never have done that to Harvard Medical School graduates. Is there such a thing as a collective guilt?

I have personally encountered racial discrimination at MacDill AFB in the 1960s, despite Truman’s Executive Order 9981 issued in 1948. Hmm? In the 1950s, while at Keesler AFB, I rode the New Orleans streetcar named Desire made famous by Marlon Brando, and saw those movable signs, “Colored Sit Behind” fitted into the seat backs. Whites sit, blacks stand. Does anyone owe anyone for the humiliation suffered each and every day they rode to and from work on public transportation?

Recall the black college fund’s tv ad asking how much was a mind worth? If your ancestors had laws making it a crime to teach a black person to read and write, how many minds did that waste? If, after 1865, whites north and south, permitted the levers of power to be seized by men in white sheets weaning hoods to hide their faces, so that 5 or 6 generations of helpless, law-abiding blacks were imprisoned by Jim Crow. How much is that worth? To the whites who did not have to compete against blacks?

Second Houses. In the early 1980s I made my first trip to Hilton Head Island. Shocked at what I saw, I called South Carolina “Apartheid North!” If you have not been to HH, it is divided into 12 subdivisions inappropriately named “Plantations.” Wham, a racial slap right off the bat! 12 times!

All 12 are gated communities, which means “No Blacks Allowed.” That is why they have gates. To use a polite word. Not the word Mark Furman swore he did not use! Whites can “con” their way in, but not blacks. Unlike chamaeleons, blacks cannot change the color of their skin. Although even that was tried in the 1930s and 1940s. Oh, I know now there are many blacks owning and visiting HH, but it took many years, and much harm and injury to many undeserving people before that happened. So we just forget all that? Hey, then’s then, now’s now. Move on dot com?

Kentucky’s Bluegrass region has many miles of beautiful stone fences. Many of those fences have been declared National Historical Sites and are protected. So where did those fences come from? If you can’t guess, let me tell, this is what blacks - slaves then freedmen - did in the winter. Kind massa’s who gave them work for food, without a sign to carry. The great skill in selecting and fitting limestone blocks about the size of a brick so that the fence stands without mortar, is no small work of art. [That’s a litotes, I learned a couple days ago.] So, do I “owe” someone for leaving this irreplaceable treasure behind for me to enjoy? Would I pay an admission fee if the fence was inside the property and not visible from the roadway?

Anyone here recall the words used in bargaining for a black lady day worker to come into your home? I do. Once upon a time it was, “$3 if I totes, $4 if I don’t.” Per day, not per hour. By “totes” she meant if she could carry home the scraps from her preparation of the white family’s meals. It was understood the employer added the bus fare to the wage.

So what happens when this black lady retires? “Retires” is a white euphemism for too old to work. Her white employers have social security, but the law exempted household servants and staff from coverage. She had nothing. Have you ever wondered how many people like her who had great pride, ultimately starved to death for lack of money? Or died for lack of needed medications? And do you know, American doctors do not use “starvation” as a cause of death. A litany: “Hey, no one starves to death in America!” if a doctor puts down “starvation” as a cause of death, he is in for more trouble than he ever wanted.

Richard Nixon signed the SSI law in 1972. Security Supplemental Income. SSI was the Federal program that attempted to equalize and assure a living “dole” was offered in every state to all persons whether or not covered by Social Security. It replaced the former patchwork of state pensions with uniform rules and practices. In Mississippi, in 1972, the old age pension was $20 a month. Go live on that, even in MS. SSI raised that to about $150 a month. Thanks, RMN.

Aside: SSI is funded out of the General Fund. It is not part of the Social Security program. It is administered by the Social Security Administration because it was not deemed necessary to establish a second bureaucracy. End.

Blue Line. This is the practice of bankers marking off whole neighborhoods as “No Loan” areas. Who benefits from Blue Lining? Who suffers? Why is it done? Despite white banker’s enjoying the profits made possible by the FDIC, when it comes to fairness, equity, and I say, honesty, the bankers came up short. Way short. In my city, if you lived west of 18th street, and north of Broadway, you were very unlikely to be able to borrow money for a small business, or for a home. You were blue lined. A predominantly black neighborhood. The practice continues in 2006, but now, the bankers are more sophisticated. Like employers, they put nothing in writing. Just stop by your local bank’s loan department sometime and see what color the people are. And etc. Say no more.



[edit on 8/13/2006 by donwhite]



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