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What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

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posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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nothing can ever be done to "stop" racism. racisim is a part of life and there's no escaping that fact. racism will only stop when humanity achives a higher conciesence of some sort.

so living in a world without racisim is like saying living in a world without violence and death, it's just not going to happen. ever.

now illegal immigration NEEDS to be stopped. the entire us gov need to crack down on these mexicans entering the country illegally because it's getting out of hand.

if u wanna be a us citizen fine, but do it the correct and *legal* way.




posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 03:52 PM
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Spawwwn maybe racism won't stop for you, because you can't achieve this "higher conciesence"? Furthermore, the term racism didn't exist as an idea to the 1600's. There was of course the religious hatred existed, but there was a level of unity between different ethnic groups through the fact they were christian [for example.]

The fact, you single out people from Mexico when speaking about illegal immigration says more than anything else ever could do.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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The only way not to have racism is to exterminate everyone to leave only 1 colour surviving.

The same goes for terrorism and wars, youd have to exterminate everyone but leave either 0 or 1 religion intact.

Its sad but were stuck with those problems.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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well racisim isn't limit to just race first of all. like u said religons fought over who was better, it's still a form a racism.

and i think racism was more dominat in the 1600s than it is today. god just look how bad columbus raped the inidnans (oh im sorry the correct term columbus used for them was "savages), or how blacks were enslaved in america, you dont think that's a bit racist?

and i didnt' single out mexicans because i am racist, i did it because it is a prooven fact that they have the highest number of illegal immagrants that are entering the country. how can u say its racist ? why just because it's true and proven fact?

none of that is racism thats just plan fact.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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Racism IS limited to race. Prejudice is not.

Racism didn't begin in the 17th century because a term was created for it.
A term was created for it because it existed and the folks who coined the termed
coined the term because they were giving thought to it and needed the term
for ease of communication. Just like everyother word was created; because it beats
having to wave and point and gesture so peeps understand what your talking about . phew...



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Marge, for the love of all that is supposedly holy, and for the love of god, whom I don’t particularly believe in can you please not say "anti-immigration"!? Illegal immigration is the term you’re looking for.


If you are angered by the issue of racism and anti-immigration racism and can not hold a debatable intelligent discussion because of personal feelings been hurt you are in the wrong thread.. . .

From the beginning in that very first post you made you where trying to make an issue of the thread topic. . .

Anti-immigrant racism is an issue world wide and in the US, denying that many people that are against illegal immigrant becoming legal in this country that also feel that they are superior to many of the groups of immigrant coming into our country is a Fact and a reality.

Many problems with social issues Have racism in it.

You can not avoid it and you can not turn it away.

It most be discussed in an intelligent, educated and mature manner.

This is what this thread is about . . .Unless some may want to troll it away with silly comments.

Is an issue that is real and is hurting Americans and none Americans.

God have nothing to do with it . . . we humans are.

Denied Ignorance.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by marg6040
If you are angered by the issue of racism and anti-immigration racism and can not hold a debatable intelligent discussion because of personal feelings been hurt you are in the wrong thread.. . .


Yes, I am angered by the fact that some seem to think the only reason you would oppose illegal immigration is if you’re some type of racist. And I am also angered by the fact that people who are against illegal immigration are labeled as being against all form of immigration, which again IMO is not the case. BTW don't worry, I’m a big boy, my feelings aren't hurt, I’m just getting tired of this as I have had to deal with it on a personal level before.


Originally posted by marg6040
From the beginning in that very first post you made you where trying to make an issue of the thread topic. . .


From my second post I made it clear that the topic of immigration for me, and I believe for the majority of people concerned is centered around the issue of legality and NOT around the issue of race. Like I said before, in the US most people who are anti illegal immigration are not anti-immigration altogether, this alone should tell you that this is not an issue of race. Why do some continue to insist otherwise? Is your argument so weak that you must resort to the race factor in hopes of making it an issue?


Originally posted by marg6040
also feel that they are superior to many of the groups of immigrant coming into our country is a Fact and a reality.


Marge why don't you show me where you got this "fact" of yours that most people in the US feel superior to illegal/legal immigrants from? I need not remind you of the pictures I posted in another thread, you know the ones where a certain group claimed they are the only "indigenous" and rightful people of this continent. Who really thinks that they are superior, hmm...?

Just to add, I believe I have acted very civil in this discussion, my responses have been aimed at generalizations and false accusations.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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Ceci,... you ask a good question.

I've read through many of the posts in this thread, and I agree with some of you. Enkidu makes a very good point on the first page for instance. His response basically illustrates nature's version of the saying; Birds of a feather stick together.

Let's examine human history for just a moment. How did most wars begin between the same race, same nation of people? It could not have been their skin color and it was not their nationality. Something, however, caused a strife. It might have been a belief (religious or political), or it might have been an inheritance, or most likely territorial ambitions. My point is, people have fought each other for a number of reasons,... mostly ideas and ambitions. Race, height, age, the type of shoes you wear is just an excuse used to divide a group of people. We know this, because if it weren't true, then theoretically every black country should fight every white country just based on the color of their skin. We couldn't have the diversity inside the U.S. that we do now.
When you want to fight, and you have a difficult time convincing your soldiers why they should fight their own countrymen,... you can try to build hate within them by telling them or lie to them; "look,..... they are inferior to you. Look at the size of their noses, the length of their hair, they eat babies,....etc. etc." Whatever works to divide a group of people will be used. A difference in skin color is just another tool (among hundreds) to entice people to fight for a completely unrelated cause.

When the Romans enslaved people within their own race and/or nationality, they used various excuses why that slave was a slave in order to justify slavery. Race certainly wasn't one of the reasons. Usually those who were captured during battle were brought back as slaves. Standard procedure back then.

Let's look at slavery in America. Often --but not always-- these black slaves were sold to Whites by other African black tribes who had conquered their enemies and sold them into slavery. Slavery in Africa exists to this day in fact, and it has nothing to do with the color of skin. It has a lot to do with debts, past "wrongs", etc. etc.
When African black slaves were brought to America and some parts of Europe, Whites tried to O.K. this practice by employing "science" to explain why it was O.K.
Suddenly the African blacks are inferrior because they have this and that "inferior" feature. Suddenly these features make them less than human, so it is alright to use and sell them like animals. Had these African slaves been white, something other than the color of their skin and physical features would have been used to make slavery O.K.

Basically,..... some plantation owners needed work done, they didn't want to pay their workers and give up too much of their profit, so they justified slavery any way they could. African blacks were perfect, because the color of their skin clearly divided them from Whites,..... much like an orange jump suit divides the criminal from the law-abiding citizen. You won't have too much trouble explaining to your friend why he/she shouldn't trust that guy in orange.

A difference in skin color is not the problem. This is why mixing races would never work to aleviate hostilities between people. There are hundreds of cultures and religions in the world. There are many different races of people in the world. Sometimes they get along, and sometimes they don't,.... but the color of one's skin IS NOT the problem. Making everyone white or brown will not decrease hostilities in this world, because something else is at play here.

If at all possible, we will resolve racism when the entire world begins to teach their children tolerance, and the real reason conflicts begin. We need to show them historical examples of how instigators paint their enemies with stereotypes in order to reach that unrelated goal. Stereotypes from 100 years ago still live on in our memories, fueling our hate. The terrible visual stereotypes are burned into our memories. When someone angers us, we automatically reach for these stereotypes to justify our anger. Anger is a basic human emotion which doesn't always employ rational thought. Picture yourself starving for weeks, and then finding three loafs of bread 20 feet appart. The closest one to you is moldy, but because you're in too much of a hurry to take a bite, you ignore it's faults in order to satisfy your hunger. Reaching for stereotypes is (in my opinion) a similar action when we feel angered. We lose our standards. Maybe patience and rational thought is another thing we need to teach children.

Seeing as we do not have one world government telling us what to do, we can only solve this problem inside our own countries, but we will not erase violence. As long as we allow greed, disrespect and intolerance to rule us, we will continue to push our own agendas while falsely passing them off as race, fashion, or culture related.

Maybe we should teach kids at school that to be different is O.K. and perfectly normal. We should teach them that the color of one's skin doesn't make one a better or worse person (even if mom and dad say so). Having children of different races interact with each other from a very early age is also an idea.

I don't know. I made this post so long, I confused myself. If you made it this far, congratulations, and thank you. I hope I stayed on topic at least part of the way.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 06:53 PM
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WestPoint23

You have a problem my friend and I not about to turn this very good and informative thread on a debate between you and me.

So I will not address you anymore, but I will continue with the thread topic.

Have a good day.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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Like I say before Racism has been with our nation since its humble beginings.

We have been through various degrees of racism and whenever a situation arises the issues get different names.

How can we educate our childrens to be tolerant and make sure that they exercise it when many people still are under the impression that is not such thing as racism in American they change the name of racism with other terms to make less racist.

Before the immigration issues it was "xenophobia," or the fear of foreigners, as an important issue that has emerged throughout the world as migration has become more widespread.

Does anybody remember when after the 9/11 many of us turned our distrust to foreigners of Arab heritage?

That was a type of racism even we fell on our butts that we were not.

Even I felt distrust.

Like many say before me is a way of human reaction and the danger arise when it turns violent and hurt people.

We have to understand that one of the reasons of Global migration is due to the factors one of them is:

The severe breakdowns of economic, political and social structures, leading environmental destruction among cities and towns.

People are having difficulties surviving into traditional communities and countries.

In the US has become a demographic shift.







[edit on 9-8-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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Flyer, do you count yourself as a racist man? Do you treat people differently on the basis of their skin colour? If you are able to treat everyone, equally on their merits than why can't earth people?

Spawwwn, thank you for the response. I was just using you as an example of how the issue is so hard. Instead of saying you want them to crack down on all illegal immigrants you picked one ethnic group. This is actually how the issue causes problems. Due to from Mexico being the problem, those who are of hispanic disent can be targetted - legal or illegal. This only helps to cause more harm than good.

nextguyinline. Thank you for posting, but your opinion on the issue goes directly against contemporary books on the subject. What would be seen as racism in the the 1600's, was actually Nationalism and Xenophobia. [Reference: Michel Foucault.] If you are willing to produce evidence against his theory or to even read what he has to say, I'd be happy to respond to your comments. Otherwise, it very much seems like opinion again.

WestPoint23 is the problem with illegal immigrants, also not down to the immigration process? A good friend of mine, took over 18months to move into the United State's from Canada. I doubt it can be much better for people from Mexico.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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Hmmm to bring about an END to racism. Well that is simple, we create seperate countries for the mexicans/indians waht ever, the whites, the blacks, the asians, Arabs and who ever decides they are their own race. Some girl told me she was a blaisan black/asian.. so maybe a country for them.

Ok now we build a rather large wall seperating everyone so no one can see over it so they never know people of another color exist, then they all lead seperate and slightly fulfilling lives thinking that they are the only race.

My point being that human nature says we fall into crowds like our selves. of course not everyone only hangs out with their race, but people of diferent races who at least act like them or have the same intrest. But a complete end to racial tensions is to make sure the population is not mixed, therefore you have no one to hate. Except whites might decide people with red or blonde hair are now racial inferiors, then people with green eyes. Er I hate those arrogant green eyed bastards!



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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nextguyinline. Thank you for posting, but your opinion on the issue goes directly against contemporary books on the subject. What would be seen as racism in the the 1600's, was actually Nationalism and Xenophobia. [Reference: Michel Foucault.] If you are willing to produce evidence against his theory or to even read what he has to say, I'd be happy to respond to your comments. Otherwise, it very much seems like opinion again.


Well I won't argue it was anything other than my opinion. I've been trying real hard
to put IMO's all over my posts to be clear, but obviously I failed that in my last post;
and I don't think it contradicts the works of those folks(from what I know of them only from posts in this thread). I think it actually compliments them.
Just because the works of those folks ultimately revolve around nationalism and
xenophobia, doesn't mean racism didn't exist nor was an idea at that time.. -I'm not saying that you implied that but this is from your post...


Furthermore, the term racism didn't exist as an idea to the 1600's . There was of course the religious hatred existed, but there was a level of unity between different ethnic groups.


and that in correlation to rest of your posts IMO
implies that you believe racism didn't exist.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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I wanted to add my thoughts to this thread. There have been some interesting comments, and I’d like to address a few of them.

First of all, the title to this thread is “What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?”

My feelings about that are, you cannot legislate feelings. You can legislate behavior that has been deemed to be illegal, such as discrimination in hiring, but you cannot tell people how to feel. As has been pointed out, you have the right to dislike anyone that you choose to. No reason needs to be given. So, any efforts to put that notion into law is doomed for failure, and can only cause resentment among those who are defined to be racist. About all you can do is to live your life the way you want to, and if you are fortunate enough to influence others to your way of thinking, all the better for you. But you have to do it with reason, not with a legislative hammer.

I happen to think that diversity is wonderful. It’s one of the things that makes our world an interesting place to live in.

One solution offered here was race mixing. I must say, I was flabbergasted when I read that. It just seems so unworkable.

First of all, how would you implement it? DNA testing? And what would be the goal? A consistent skin color?

And then the details. Would you issue a government directive making it a requirement? Can you imagine the kickback from that?

I think that the author of that idea was just “thinking outside the box” with that solution. Pardon me if I was wrong in my assumption.

More thoughts in a later post, due to character limitations.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

My feelings about that are, you cannot legislate feelings. You can legislate behavior that has been deemed to be illegal, such as discrimination in hiring, but you cannot tell people how to feel.


Wise words you got my vote this month.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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Thanks, marg.


Some thought has to be given to the idea that there are many causes for racism (obviously), but that some of it has to be attributed to nature. Here’s why.

Some cases of racism are due to racist parents passing those ideas down to their kids. And some cases are due to family or friends being victims of racism.

But what about the privileged kid, whose parents have tried to teach him that racism is wrong, but still exhibits racism on the playground when the parents and teachers aren’t around? How do you account for that? It must be something internal to the kid.

Can this kid’s attitude be changed? Maybe, through education and example. But there are no guarantees. One thing that won’t work, though, is forcing the kid to accept others. That is guaranteed to backfire and fail.

So once again, it comes down to, live your own life, and don’t get all worked up over how others live theirs. Unless it affects you. And we have plenty of laws to make sure you are not harmed by racism.

One more point deals with immigration. It puzzles me why some people refuse to accept the fact that it is the illegal part that people are against, and not because they are racist. As for the notion that it is limited to illegal immigrants from the south, might I suggest reading a few west coast newspapers to see that the same objection arises over illegal Asian immigrants. The reason it doesn’t get as much press is because the numbers are so much lower.

Just my .02



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:18 PM
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I second that marg. Well said jsobecky.


I gave out my first WATS! I'm so excited



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

It puzzles me why some people refuse to accept the fact that it is the illegal part that people are against, and not because they are racist.


That is true, but we have also the people that will be against migrants in our nation be citizens or not.

Many times the dislike is unfounded and more as a reaction. The way the press plays immigrants protesting and what they voice causes a reaction on the rest of the population that are not happy with them to begin with.



As for the notion that it is limited to illegal immigrants from the south, might I suggest reading a few west coast newspapers to see that the same objection arises over illegal Asian immigrants.


You are right also but is also a global issue as people migrate across borders.



Mod edit: Fixed quote tags

[edit on 2006-8-10 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 01:11 AM
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Well, I have to hand it to jsobecky. He is able to describe the problem. Yet, he continues to be part of the troublesome aspects of it by his string of continuous threads putting down the ways of Black folk and their leaders.

I would have given him a WATS, nextguyinline and marg, but I've realized that it takes more than two posts to convince me that he truly understands the problem and is willing to work on a solution. I still think he's being very hypocritical when he puts forth his ideas.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.








[edit on 10-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally quoted by TrueAmerican

ceci, you wanna solve a problem right? So if the solution is to remove all the cards, then how can the systematic removal of the first card in line (the racist one, and mingling of the races) not be working towards that end? I really, no I REALLY mean sincerely that I do not understand your position on that. At all. Sorry.


No apology needed. I see your point, but I just disagree.

I think that a way to rid the problem of racism is to accept diversity as it is. People come from different backgrounds, religions and races. They have diverse histories, cultural practices and social mores. If people are proud of their heritage they shouldn't have to give it up to please society at large.

It is as if someone who is espousing the Melting pot theory advocates erasing the different cultures, races, languages, customs and contributions belonging to different races save one. That is why it is a rather problematic way to solve racism.

It seems people who are non-white always have to give up their culture and social practices to satisfy that of the dominant culture in order to assimilate. That is what makes non-whites more acceptable to the dominant culture. And those of the dominant culture do not understand how much non-white people have to give up to be accepted. It isn't easy. To have someone "seasoned" out of their culture to satisfy one race smacks of superiority disguised as "equality".

But I've seen that people of color who are willing to give up their own heritage and culture for the sake of the dominant culture are praised a lot more by whites. Dr. Rice is part and parcel of this.

It's not that easy to say that the melting pot theory will solve racism. It won't work. The power elite governing the social hierarchies separated those of mixed race and made an example of them. Look at the miscegenation laws of the Old South.

The "Melting Pot" theory continues to use and abuse people of mixed race for the selfish means of the dominant culture.


The American Melting Pot? Miscegenation Laws in the United States

People of mixed heritage have been citizens of the United States since the country’s inception. Indeed, one scholar has insisted that “American History would be unrecognizable without ethnic intermarriage” (1). But while Americans proudly describe their nation as a “melting pot,” history shows that social convention and legal statutes have been less than tolerant of miscegenation, or “race mixing.” For students and teachers of history, the topic can provide useful context for a myriad of historical and contemporary issues.

Laws prohibiting miscegenation in the United States date back as early as 1661 and were common in many states until 1967.


Like I said before, I'm for racial mixing. It is a beautiful idea that is catching on more and more as we are progressing together as a society. But as a theory to rid racism, it cannot be. Forty-two years does not make a just and equal society. America has a lot to get over before they can truly entertain these ideas.

It just says to me that people who advocate this idea are unwilling to truly accept the differences amongst us. What they ask for is assimilation and nothing more. That is truly sad.

We need practical solutions that apply to diversity. To solve racism is to accept diversity through tolerance and understanding.

I am to going post different definitions of diversity for you and others to see:


What Diversity Means

Diversity refers to the variety of backgrounds, orientations and experiences created within our community. When a community is diverse there is the presence of different points of views and ways of making meaning which flow from the variety within it. This variety arises out of different cultural, racial, ethnic, religious, gender, socioeconomic class, political, developed abilities, and/or sexual orientation. However, even as we recognize that diversity is multi-faceted, we must remember that some aspects of diversity ( i.e., race, gender) have proven particularly difficult to embrace. Those aspects of diversity deserve special ongoing attention. In short, an authentically diverse environment recognizes and nurtures the talents of all persons within the community.



Equity and Diversity

The phrase "equity and diversity" implies that a society of individuals exists in an environment where fairness, justice, civility and diversity are its primary goals. "Diversity" in this context, means "variety," and it goes beyond race and ethnicity, to include class, gender, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, political affiliation, socio-economic background, educational level, profession and other qualities. "Equity" means "equality of opportunity" for all individuals, regardless of race, color, religion, gender, age, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.


What is diversity? is a very interesting fact sheet about the issues surrounding this matter. However, I would like to highlight just one section of this sheet so that people can get an idea of what is at stake:


Perceptions and Attitudes

One common myth is that by talking about and examining our differences, we are encouraging divisions. Most people in excluded groups are aware that divisions have always existed and do not believe that talking about divisiveness encourages it but instead removes the veil and allows change to begin. [...] Both groups [whites and people of color] operate in the same society but get and perceive different treatment. So when we discuss differences, we need to consider not only how we are different but also how we are treated because of our differences. Clearly, differences themselves are not the only issue; the value we place on idfferences present more challenges. These value judments have consciously and unconsciously helped shape our deep-seated attitudes and beliefs about othes. Working on diversity issues involves attitudinal change as well as organizational change.








[edit on 10-8-2006 by ceci2006]



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