It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

page: 35
2
<< 32  33  34    36  37  38 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
...even in the discussion of Black dignitaries here, there is a difference of respect afforded to them based on deed, politics and color...

Think about the issue of "bad" Blacks and "good" Blacks". A bad Black is someone who speaks out at the system and slaps the "Man" in the face with his or her comments.

There has to be a change of definitions by the dominant culture about who is afforded respect around here.

Go Ceci!


Now we're getting to the meat of the issue. I'm anxious to hear how people respond.




posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by seattlelaw
Attacking Ceci by accusing her of being racist is a similar attempt to frustrate her and demean her message.


No. Saying the fact that she's racist is based on what she has said here and in other threads. She's a racist. Pure and simple. There is no 'attempt' at anything. She made her bed and now she's lying in it.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
How do you truly know? You can say they respect you. But do they truly?


I can't truly know the mind of anyone other than myself, but if a person says they respect me and they treat me with respect, then I'm pretty sure they respect me, regardless of their skin color...


By the same token, someone can say they respect me, but if they don't treat me with respect, I know they're lying.

What's the point? You think these black people who say they respect me are lying? I don't get where you're going with this...



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
It appears that his hajj was key to his decision.


If this is the case, then we have a key as to what can be done to reduce racism. What was it that moved him so much on his pilgrimage that he changed his position and even denounced his earlier anti-white rhetoric?? This is big. It is key.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:23 PM
link   
BH, you can say that they do regardless of skin-color. But don't you understand why you brought them up? You used them because of their skin-color to show that you respected them in the first place.

Sadly enough, they might not even respect you enough to bring up these "deep, emotional" issues that strike at the core of the argument. You might scare the crap out of them.

That makes you very hypocritical in your approach not to judge people by their skin color.

But, you get kudos for recognizing treatment when you see it.

For FlyersFan: Then, I'll just say that you're racist. And a most blatant one at that. Too bad you don't know any better. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt concerning your issues with Black people.


[edit on 11-9-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by FlyersFan
When he called for the streets to run with the blood of white people ... that was terrorism.

Do you have the source for such an inflammatory statement?

It's not inflammatory. It's the truth. I already posted the source.
encarta.msn.com...
There are other sources out there .. all quoting him.
He called for the streets to run with the blood of white people. That's terrorism.
To his credit he later denounced 'all means necessary' and the terrorism he had earlier called for.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:25 PM
link   
Poor FlyersFan, demonstrating her racist intent even with trying to quote Malcolm X. Did you ever read his Autobiography, or are you just stating his "evil" intentions from the top of your head?


Take those baby steps now. We're all rooting for you.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
Think about the issue of "bad" Blacks and "good" Blacks". A bad Black is someone who speaks out at the system and slaps the "Man" in the face with his or her comments.

A good Black is someone who idly sits by and accomodates.


HH - Perhaps some people have this mindset, but I don't. And I really feel negated when Ceci writes this and you agree so happily. If you don't think white people know how it feels to be the object of racism, think about how it feels for me to hear this.

I could just as well say that "Good Whites" are the ones who feel totally guilty for what they had no part in and spend the rest of their lives trying to make up for something they didn't do and cannot possibly fix.

"Bad Whites" are the ones who speak out against racism against all races, who bring up black-on-white racism and don't buy that a man's skin color dictates the kind of respect he deserves or chances he has to make a good life for himself.

That quote makes me sick. It's applying a mindset to white people and it sucks. It's not true.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:29 PM
link   
Poor Ceci, demonstrating her racist intent even with trying to quote Malcolm X. Did you ever read the quotes of his that I posted. Obviously not.


Take those baby steps now. We're all rooting for you.

another personal insult. wrapped in passive/aggressive



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:29 PM
link   
Oh BH, yes it is. And yes it is very sick. And it is very true that there is a Bad Black/Good Black standard--even in this thread.

I don't even think that people ever perceived anything of the sort for White people. Hypotheticals don't work here.

Which Blacks do you like better?

And do your Black friends respect you enough to bring these issues of deepness up to you. Or do you scare them off with your high-mindedness? Do you truly scare the crap out of them?



[edit on 11-9-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:30 PM
link   
Well, out of the both us, FlyersFan, you are the bigger racist here. I haven't called out against the "Mexican invasion". I haven't denounced Black people for being democratic and getting "social giveaways".

You have. I'm sorry, but the shoe fits for you and you can't shake it off.

I just hope Majic takes note of comments being made in this thread especially when you tried to type my character.

Forgive me, my dear, but you are a true sociopath.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
BH, you can say that they do regardless of skin-color. But don't you understand why you brought them up? You used them because of their skin-color to show that you respected them in the first place.


No I didn't. I said I respect some people. Some are black. I didn't say I respect "black people". There's a big difference.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have respected many black people in my life...


Not because of the color of their skin, but because of the person they are. I don't respect "Black people", I respect some people. Some of them are black. There's a difference. Do you understand?


Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
So it seems to me that to say someone should have a different approach to applying respect to people of a particular race is counter productive to what we are all working towards here.


Exactly!



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
I haven't called out against the "Mexican invasion".


Wrong. I called out against the ILLEGAL aliens who are here because they broke the law. Legal immigrants are fine. My grandfather in-law was here from Mexico - LEGALLY. My DAUGHTER is here from Bolivia LEGALLY.


I haven't denounced Black people for being democratic and getting "social giveaways".


Wrong. I didn't DENOUNCE anyone. And yes, black people vote overwhelmingly democratic and the democrats are big into social giveaways.

Saying either of those is not racist. Once again ... you blatently misrepresent posts. Actually lied about what I have said. Pathetic personal attack (again)


Edited for spelling


[edit on 9/11/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
Forgive me, my dear, but you are a true sociopath.


Nope. You obviously don't know the meaning of the term. BTW you are trolling by editing and re-editing insults. tsk tsk tsk Personal insults again. (and again and again) ...



I just hope Majic takes note of comments being made in this thread

If he read the entire thread you'd be out on your butt for telling lies and insults.

Get back on topic ... or get off the thread.

[edit on 9/11/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:49 PM
link   
Apologies for popping in and out of this thread, but it's a rather overwhelming topic and hard to keep up with.

First, belated thanks to jsobecky for saying I am very polite. I try.


Second, ceci, thank you for another lovely compliment.


Random thoughts about respect:

I don't expect anyone to earn my respect. I give every person a base amount of respect right off the bat. Whether or not they keep it is up to them.

It might surprise you to know that I do, in fact, have friends (two) who are racist and I've learned a lot from them. I've learned how deeply ingrained it is in them since they were children. Both of them are intelligent enough to know that I won't tolerate any kind of racist behaviour while we are in public, but in private, I discuss it with them. I don't condemn them for their beliefs, as they are only a small part of who they are. I want to understand them and how they arose.

I respect them as people because of the fact that they trust me enough to be honest with me, knowing that I don't agree and find their point of view disturbing. They respect me because I don't judge them for the way they think, even thought I don't condone it. I want to find out why they feel that way.

I also know another fellow is a 'born-again' non-racist. By born-again, I mean this fellow has nazi symbols and those little squiggly lightning signs tatooed on him. He is filled with shame for his previous actions and the first thing he tells people when he meets them is that his tatoos don't reflect how he feels now. I respect him for the fact that he took a deep, painful look into himself and has made a conscious effort to change. I also respect the fact that goes out of his way to bring the topic up right away, because he is aware of how uncomfortable his tatoos make people around him. Every extra dime he makes goes into his laser-removal fund.

Respect isn't reserved for those who think like we do.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
OMS: No, I am not offended by what you are saying. People do have to respect each other from all sides. But what comes down to it is the logistics and the methodology of how to do it.

You can say you respect someone until you are blue in the face. But you have to practice it. ...


And this may be one place where generalizations can cause trouble. How respect is accorded and received varies a LOT even here in the US, let alone in the world.

Here is a true story: I've explained before how I was raised regarding race, and I grew up in a culture that would probably best be generalized as Northwest US hillbillies. One way people of that culture accord respect is to denigrate each other's truck, looks, intelligence and stubborness. I'm not sure that style would be considered respectful in some places in the US, but to them, it is. I'm not totally sure what I'm trying to say here, other than sincere practice of respect may look really different in various places. I know I've learned (painfully
) to approach a situation assuming respect and honor are present, because of the large variety in how different cultures in the US demonstrate respect. If they are not, it usually becomes real obvious pretty quickly.


Originally posted by ceci2006
But no one, even myself, is free of biases.


I absolutely agree. I have never met anyone who is free of all bias.


Originally posted by ceci2006
Like I said before, for those I don't, there is usually a reason why. And I think it is honest to speak about why if it has to do with race. You can't sweep race under the rug by saying that you don't judge on color. Even those who "don't judge on color" act contrary to their words on some occasions. You cannot be totally immune to judging someone on the basis of race.


I want to be sure I'm following you here. When you talk about judging based on race, do you mean the initial, ingrained distrust someone might have of a person of different race?

Or do you mean judging based on knowing someone, and not respecting them because they steal or drown kittens and also because of their race?


Originally posted by ceci2006
Now this is a very hard thing to say, but would someone respect all Blacks if some of those Blacks treated your brethren badly? Or would you respect some Blacks?


Speaking strictly for myself, my answer is 'No', I would not and do not respect all Blacks or any other color of people I've met. Without regard to how others of their bretheren have treated mine. And 'Yes', I respect some Blacks, both professionally and as people I know.


Originally posted by ceci2006
There has to be a change of definitions by the dominant culture about who is afforded respect around here.


If you are saying the dominant culture would benefit from a change in how it affords respect to individuals, I absolutely agree. I do not, however, believe that race-basing is the sole thing that needs to change, nor is this unique to the dominant culture.


Originally posted by ceci2006
Then, we could talk turkey.


I think this thread talks turkey in a big way.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:50 PM
link   
Please, FlyersFan, you are telling lies and insults all over the board and you're still here. And I think because of your track record you have no place to tell me which thread I have to get off or not.

I started the thread. I don't see you sticking your neck out any. And yes, you did mention the "Mexican Invasion". Those are words oft repeated in certain nationalist and "English only" circles.

I feel sorry for your poor little girl. I hope that she will develop a different mindset about Blacks than what you've demonstrated. My hope is for a child's gift for seeing people who they are and still retaining a sense of curiosity. It is dreadfully sad when certain adults mess with their mind.

And thank you very much for demonstrating the Bad Black/Good Black dichotomy, so very well.


BH: You did use Black people. Admit it. I'm sorry that you can't see your comments as they are. But you don't truly know whether some Black people in your life respect you. And that hurts, I know.

But you use Black people all the time to prove you aren't racist. You use their color, their speech, their music and their history to say so.

You've appropriated them and you don't even know it because you hide behind your "not judging people for the color of their skin act". I'm sorry, but even you have to face the truth of your own hypocritical statements.



[edit on 11-9-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 07:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
Those are words oft repeated in certain nationalist and "English only" circles.


English as a national language is NOT 'english only'. To say it is, is yet another misrepresentation.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW .. You STILL haven't answered the question... how exactly does having English as the official language in any way take away from a person's heritage or culture?

English is the offiical langauge of many states already. Many states with large hispanic populations. Their heritages and cultures have not been challenged in any way. It is a PROVEN fact... as shown on the thread provided.



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 07:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
And thank you very much for demonstrating the Bad Black/Good Black dichotomy, so very well.


...... and yet another personal insult that was edited in later ..



I'm sorry, but even you have to face the truth of your own hypocritical statements


........ and yet another personal insult that was edited in later .. to BH


[edit on 9/11/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 07:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by ceci2006
...even in the discussion of Black dignitaries here, there is a difference of respect afforded to them based on deed, politics and color...

Think about the issue of "bad" Blacks and "good" Blacks". A bad Black is someone who speaks out at the system and slaps the "Man" in the face with his or her comments.

There has to be a change of definitions by the dominant culture about who is afforded respect around here.


I believe this statement as worded is correct and incomplete.

- I believe the 'dominant culture' exists. However, it is not strictly 'White'. So to assume 'dominant culture' = 'white' is incorrect. I acknowledge that the dominant culture is mostly comprised of white people. Not entirely.

- In the discussion of 'bad' and 'good', the word Blacks may be replaced with 'Fat', 'Gay', 'Woman', 'Poor', 'Muslim' and many others and the statement will stay just as true. This is not a situation unique to black people.

Based on my experience, my opinion is that the 'dominant culture' is more of a class division, 'class' being mostly defined as 'economic class', than a race division. In other words, in terms of the dominant culture, it is better to be black and rich than it is to be poor and white. If race were the deciding factor, this would not be true.

So I consider the statement a piece of truth. But to claim (not saying anyone did) it is a situation unique to black people is NOT true.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 32  33  34    36  37  38 >>

log in

join