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What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

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posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 09:43 PM
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Exactly spacedoubt. Racism is enhanced when people pass laws and put labels on themselves and make specific cities for races because they SEPARATE themselves. They basically jump up and say, "we are different", when in reality we are not. Instead of teaching DIFFERENCES, which is divisive, we should teach that we are all human beings. No more emphasis on black, white, hispanic, asian, indian.




posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Aside from that, saying that victims of racism become racists themselves is just a blanket ignorant statement. By the time I was 18 (and moved out of Detroit for college) I had been shot at on two seperate occasions (one while I was right in front of my house), beaten up innumerable times, had my tires slashed or nails put through them upwards of a dozen times, and couldn't walk the neighborhood alone (and even then it really wasn't that safe). Am I a racist? No. I may not care too much for the people who did those things to me, but I'm not going to blame their entire race for their actions.


IMHO, the reason you didn't blame the whole race is because you knew other people of that race who didn't harrass you, like black neighbors, or classmates.

Unfortunately, though, most people don't have the experience of cultural immersion, and so they never learn to distinguish between a few bad apples who happen to be a certain color, and the rest of the people who happen to be that certain color.

It happens with both blacks and whites, and it has to do with familiarity. You feel comfortable around people with whom you're familiar. I, for example, am black, but having grown up in Spanish Harlem, I feel almost as comfortable in the company of Hispanic people as I do around blacks.



One thing that continues though are the reparations...

Hold on, black Americans don't get reparations...hell, we get shouted down everytime we mention it. The only historical examples of reparations that I can think of off the top of my head went to the survivors of the Japanese internment (paid by the US) and the survivors of the Holocaust (paid by West Germany).



...the special colleges, funds, etc that cater only to one or a group of minorities. Now, if there was a college that only admitted white people it would be deemed racist, while colleges such as Morehouse are not.


Please allow me to clear up what seems to be a common misperception in ATS-land: so-called 'black colleges' are referred to as "HBCU's," or "historically black colleges (and) universities," implying, obviously, history. Today, they're integrated.

Historically Black Colleges And Universities



I really think that for racism to go away, you need to get rid of all the special treatments that all races get for one reason or another.

Unfortunately, I fear that once all the protections (or, as you called them, "special treatments") have been lifted, white people will lose incentive to 'play fair,' which is why the protections were needed in the first place. The way I see it, and I could be wrong, white people no longer have any NEED for blacks. In general, in interpersonal relationships, unless you just naturally like someone, there's no reason, or compulsion, to be nice to them unless you need something from them.

Well, since black people said we refused to work for slave wages, we have been phased out of the higher paid service positions (like, doormen) and replaced by people willing to work for whatever (mostly South Americans, no offense to anyone).

Two of the main points of the Civil Rights Movement were, 1) equal pay for equal labor, and 2) an end to immigration quotas, which unfairly excluded immigrants of color in favor of Western Europeans. So, we had Civil Rights, and it appears, on the surface, to have been effective. Except that the recession of the 1970's caused a lot of lay-offs, and we weren't the ones re-hired. Whites were re-hired, for the 'good' jobs, and (newly imported) immigrants were hired for the low-skilled ones. So, the PTB ended the upward momentum of blacks by playing both cheap labor markets against each other.

Thats's why we need those protections, even now.



Get rid of any form of reparations, affirmitive action, welfare, etc and teach people to cope with each other and form bonds that stretch accross the races.


I know you're trying to be helpful and understanding, I can tell from your tone, but you have to understand that, in the case of black Americans, we have been coping with white people for several centuries now, lol. It seems like white America is upset with us for not assimilating fast enough (a la, Condi Rice), but, honestly, I don't want to assimiliate. I want to be accepted for who I am.

Also, are you implying that welfare is a form of affirmative action?



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally quoted by GradyPhilpott
This thread will be a perfect place for us to set the example for race relations.


It's nice of you to come in this late to lay down the law. It's also fascinating that of all the subject matter that you purport to know, you did not set up a topic for race-relations and racism. Why is that?

There was nothing hostile going on in this thread. And I don't know where you would get the idea that "hostile tendencies" are already apparent in this thread.

Is it because the minorities display these "hostile" tendencies? I did discover that you didn't start doling out the name "malcontent" until posters of color started to put their two cents on the BET thread.

Thank you for your suggestions, but no thanks. I had already set up the parameters in my beginning post of this thread.

I'm sure that we all can talk about this openly without any labeling regarding "aggressive behavior" especially if it is by your intervention.




[edit on 8-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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I think that people are missing the point when they are calling for all races to mix as a form to stop racism. That argument is for people who are against diversity. Mixing races together, although nice, does not solve divisions in society. People will still have their differences and they will still have conflicts.

Furthermore, who is going to lay down the law for this to happen? There are still racist people in this world. They would not want to mix racially with anyone else, for that matter. What do you do with the people who want their race to be "pure"? And if they are forced, they would be hostile to it.

So, the melting pot is a terrible analogy to stop racism.

As of removing affirmative action and other civil rights programs, I am amazed everytime I hear that argument. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed forty-two years ago. And people want to remove the programs after four decades, when there has been more that two hundred years of segregation and injustice to vunerable populations in America?

If you ended the programs tomorrow, nothing is going to change. The glass ceiling will still be there. There will be no ramps for the disabled. And of course, that would give the racists even more right to discriminate without legal intervention.



[edit on 8-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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I don't appreciate your disrespect, ceci. It is my job to facilitate this forum. Participants are expected to be courteous. I suggest that you review this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2006/8/8 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
I think that people are missing the point when they are calling for all races to mix as a form to stop racism. That argument is for people who are against diversity. Mixing races together, although nice, does not solve divisions in society. People will still have their differences and they will still have conflicts.



I didn't see any other mention of mixing except in my post so I'll respond to this.

I'm not calling for the mixing of races, just saying I believe its the only way to stop
racism No more race, no more racism. Of course it doesn't solve divisions
in general, but this is the title of your thread - 'What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?'



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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Though I'm sure that it won't be of much value to ceci, because she believes I am a racist, I happen to for the most part agree with you, nextguy, about the mingling of races being one thing that would need to happen towards the solution to racism. It by no means would be a total solution, but more of a first step. If every baby born was of the same color and hair type, through the generations the issue of pulling the race card would eventually die. There'd be no race card to pull. And Lord forbid they'd have to discuss things without that as a last ditch defense.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It is my job to facilitate this forum.


I know you were talking to Ceci but I wondered this myself when you reprimanded whoever you reprimanded earlier. Are you a moderator? Or is there another level of staff?

Just wondering about ATS infrastructure.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't appreciate your disrespect, ceci. It is my job to facilitate this forum. Participants are expected to be courteous. I suggest that you review this thread.


And I don't appreciate your disrespect either, Grady--especially when insinuating anyone in this thread has "hostile tendencies" in their posts.

I think you aren't doing your job if you use threads like these to expound upon who has "hostile tendencies" and "who doesn't." That means you don't have the best interests of having a true discussion of "race relations" at heart.

For the most part, I am very courteous--especially to those who respect me without being condescending.





[edit on 9-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:37 PM
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In fact, ceci, you are being quite rude and I will direct your attention, once again, to this thread. This is the last post that I will make regarding etiquette.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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Grady, I am not being rude. I'm being truthful. I'm just telling you that I don't like it when you use such insinuations as "hostile tendencies", "aggressive behavior" and "malcontents" to describe anyone in this section and on this thread. When you use language like that, your descriptions are rude, condescending, and hardly reflective of the ettiquette you seek.



Originally quoted by True American
happen to for the most part agree with you, nextguy, about the mingling of races being one thing that would need to happen towards the solution to racism. It by no means would be a total solution, but more of a first step. If every baby born was of the same color and hair type, through the generations the issue of pulling the race card would eventually die. There'd be no race card to pull. And Lord forbid they'd have to discuss things without that as a last ditch defense.


Why TrueAmerican, why would you think such a thing? I never said you or anyone else was racist. I simply disagree with your notion. Without a race card, there would be other cards to pull. There are still women in this world, the disabled and the poor, no?

Prejudice always shifts to another class of people even if races were one. Cards will always be played.

That's why it's not an applicable idea.





[edit on 9-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:44 PM
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TrueAmerican and nextguyinline

The solution you suggest has popped up in my mind a few times as well, but I'm not entirely sure it would work. For example, even now, there's racism, nationalism, classism, and sexism. Who's to say one of the other three wouldn't be the -ism that causes conflict? Or an altogether new -ism?

Ceci- you beat me to it!

[edit on 8-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:03 AM
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No it's not an 'applicable' idea because you can't ask, force or expect anyone to breed
cross race purely for the actualization of a single race. That's just silly; but it is a relevant and pertinent idea for this thread. You have not asked how do we address and resolve prejudices of the mentally ill, physcally/mentally handicapped, women, lepers, albinos or bald people. You asked how do we address and resolve the issue of racism. Without race there CANNOT be racism. Am I wrong?



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by ceci2006
It is very much a racial issue. However, it is masked by the issues of "legality" opposed to "illegality"--especially when people bring up who represents the face of illegal immigration.


I do not believe it is, the issue of legality is what this whole debate is founded on, at least for me it is. The "face" of illegal immigration is entirely dependant upon who the majority of illegal immigrants are, no masking there. So for me this is not a racial issue, nor should it be one.



I coundn't agree with you more WestPont23. My thought on the immigration issue is "I'm all for it, but not illegal immigration" Why is this issue becoming something considered racist? I have no problem with ANY race coming America (legally). Does everyone really believe that no whites immigrate here?
I don't know why immigration should even be brought up in a racial discussion.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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I thought this thread seeks solutions to the problem of racism? So we try to solve that one with yas and now you're talking all the other isms too? Lol, we do seem to have a problem around here of sticking to thread title content, but this is getting a little rediculous.

ceci, you wanna solve a problem right? So if the solution is to remove all the cards, then how can the systematic removal of the first card in line (the racist one, and mingling of the races) not be working towards that end? I really, no I REALLY mean sincerely that I do not understand your position on that. At all. Sorry.

edit: spelling

[edit on 9-8-2006 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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The only way we could bring it into a racial discussion is to divide immigrants by race. Then a whole set of topics could be discussed. Such as how many of such and such race immigrate illegally compared to other races....

It could go on and on, and probably will


It just adds to racism in my opinion.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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nextguyinline, If you take it to its logical conclusions, you are not wrong.

But realistically, this cannot happen--not even if the government forces people to do this. People would be screaming that their rights have been violated left or right.

Besides, we all belong to families who are mixed in one shape or form. I can say that mine is racially mixed in a lot ways through the generations. Racism didn't stop. People are still prejudiced. Except now it is legally sanctioned to do so because of 9/11.

On the whole, I agree with Harlem Hottie. I like who I am, thank you. And I would like others to accept me as I am. Diversity should be encouraged. And it doesn't perpetuate division. It's just that people who are against diversity don't want to accept others for what they are and lash out at it.

TrueAmerican, let me think about your question and give you a detailed post a little later.

mooonhoxe, you bring up a good point about immigration. But, what you don't realize is that the entire anti-immigration issue is racially polarized by virtue of not concentrating on other illegal immigrants other than South Americans. On the news, in politics and of course in pictures, whose face do you see representing illegal immigration?

Surely it isn't a white face, is it? Find one story and post it here that has featured White illegal immigrants negatively by calling them "illegals". I bet it is pretty rare.

Do you think that people would be building a wall to keep out White immigrants?


[edit on 9-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:24 AM
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It appears you have misunderstood me. I love diversity. I am not afraid of it and prefer
people to be different. How boring would life be it was any other way. I just accept the
fact that where there is diversity there is division. As long as there are seperate races
there will always be racism. I accept that fact and do my best not to perpetuate it. I am not resigned to let racism run rampant around me. As that Santayana fellow and you have said, open communication should be used to mitigate its' effect on all who encounter its' ugly disposition.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:34 AM
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On the local news here, like NY1, I've seen African, Asian (maybe Chinese), Irish and West Indian illegals, demonstrating, organizing, etc. So, I think I have a decent overview of the situation.

It looks like, numerically, there are more South American illegal immigrants, because they cross land. Other people have a harder time getting here, but they still manage it.

Either way, I'm against the whole thing. I say this in real life all the time: "Just breathing American air, they are breaking the law." And I mean it. They are illegal. I don't care about the socio-economic causes of why they break the law, and neither should the justice system.

The justice system doesn't care about the socio-economic causes of why young black men sell drugs. They lock them up.

Illegal is illegal, right?

[edit on 9-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
mooonhoxe, you bring up a good point about immigration. But, what you don't realize is that the entire anti-immigration issue is racially polarized by virtue of not concentrating on other illegal immigrants other than South Americans. On the news, in politics and of course in pictures, whose face do you see representing illegal immigration?

Surely it isn't a white face, is it? Find one story and post it here that has featured White illegal immigrants negatively by calling them "illegals". I bet it is pretty rare.

Do you think that people would be building a wall to keep out White immigrants?


[edit on 9-8-2006 by ceci2006]


I don't see how it's racially polarized. The faces I see representing illegal immigration are the ones committing crimes, ie illegal immigration. And it's not just about keeping the Mexicans out of the USA. It's about keeping EVERYONE out that is willing to break the 1st law towards becoming a citizen. It's also about securing our borders so we don't get every Tom, Dick, and Harry walking into this wonderful country carrying a nuke in their suitcase.



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