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What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

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posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
If your father committed a crime, I wouldn't throw you in jail. So why must I be repeatedly convicted of a crime I didn't commit?

What if this hypothetical father robbed a bank, gave the money to his son, and then died? When caught with the loot, should the son be forced to cough it up?



... but those who seek to punish anyone for the color of their skin are racists, plain and simple, and I will have nothing to do with such evil.

I was thinking about what you said when it occurred to me, people are reacting like, one day the feds are going to empty all "White" bank accounts, split it up, and deposit it into the "Black" accounts. That will never, ever happen. What would be more likely is that the US government, which benefitted both form slave labor directly, and those tax dollars, would pay out a sum, from the Treasury. Now, unless the government is considered white, I don't see how whites would be "punished." They may have to raise taxes or issue bonds, but that wouldn't affect just you.



I used to play along with "whitey guilt" and let myself feel guilty for years and years. And I felt hopeless because I thought there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. I can't change my race, after all...One day I realized why it felt so wrong. Because it is wrong. Feeling guilty helps no one, and only perpetuates the misery we should have all overcome long ago.

Your turn-around is interesting, but, let me just say, the purpose of guilt is to inspire you to action. Maybe that was why it felt wrong after a while.



Immigrants who succeed in this country do so not by whining about how they're discriminated against, but by working their butts off -- as immigrants have since time immemorial. In fact, they usually have to work a lot harder than the "privileged class", but they do it anyway, because bitching about it won't make it go away.


Let's do some math, shall we? The Slave Codes of 1705 demonstrate that African people have been here in the US for just over 300 years. If a generation is considered 20-25 years, some of us have been here twelve generations, and working hard all the while. I wonder why we haven't advanced. Could it be that "The Structure" legitimately impeded our progress? Okay, okay, fourty years ago "The Structure" was coerced into recognizing me as a person, so that's almost two generations we've been free, free meaning "The Structure" finally allowed me to make my own decisions.

So, how many generations, loosely, do immigrants have to work their butts off before they succeed?



Feeling oppressed? The first step to overcoming oppression is rejecting it.

The people who are telling you there's no hope are damn liars.

There's no hope in rejecting reality. You have to deal with an unpleasant reality by changing it, not by ignoring it and hoping it will go away.



Don't play along with it. Don't buy into it. Don't allow those who truly want to oppress you to demoralize you.

I agree with you here. Unfortunately, however, that doesn't negate the fact that, however you're feeling, demoralized or not, there's still a pretty decent chance you won't get that job, or that apartment. That's not pessimism. It's reality.



If the goal is filling the morass between black and white, Black Americans need to do what all great Black Americans have done in the face of adversity: take action. And not action driven by fear, anger, self-pity and hatred, but action driven by courage, hope, strength and self-belief.

No, it's not easy. In fact, rising above discrimination and prejudice one of the hardest things anyone can do.

Yep, we tried all that, but, obviously, it wasn't optimally effective. All it did was force the oppression underground.



No one -- no matter what obstacles they face due to their race -- will ever succeed by pointing fingers. That solves nothing.

Israel does it everyday and it seems to work for them. The US sends them, what, $4 billion a year, at least? If we can manage to find $4 million a year to give away, I should think we could do the same to fix our own domestic issues.



Want to overcome the prejudice you face? Do what all great Americans have done: do your best.

In this version of history I was taught, most immigrant groups began their upward ascension through illegality, which we've been trying, but, darn it if we don't get caught everytime. I wonder how many gangsters of old got life sentences.

Mind you, I'm not advocating drug-dealing, or number-running, or bootlegging. I'm looking to history to find examples of how other people moved up.

In conclusion, I apologize for being so snippy in tone, but I don't know how much more 'helpful advice' I can take. Even though you mean well, I think.



P.S. I'm thrilled that we can have this sort of discussion on PTS. It means a lot to me.

Me too


And, wow, this was really long.




posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
I missed Harlem and maybe seeing you?!

Well, let me see, in the late 80's, I would have about 8 or 9, but, you very well could have seen me at the Waldorf. My family does Sunday brunch there sometimes, or used to, until they broke it up into private residences.
Oh, and you probably would have avoided Harlem in the 80's, and I would have understood.



Anyway, it seems my mission is raising white consciousness. It’s proving to be one tough task.

No comment.




Yes, HH, if the general population benefits from the sacrifice of a few, then why does not the general population acknowledge that and make an appropriate (and proportional) gesture?

Because that would require them to give something up.



How is that so easy to forget or overlook? I once thought we were all in this “boat” together, but it seems some want to stand in the bow and let others do the rowing?

I sometimes think that a lot of white Americans believe that they accomplish goals by the sheer force of their minds. Like, Manifest Destiny. That was not achieved through hard work, unless you count the hard work of genocide. Or, the commonplace, "I got that job because I deserved it." Well, a lot of people deserve a lot of things and don't get them. Deserving a job is not enough, someone has to decide to give it to you.

btw, There was a show on F/X called Black/White. Did you watch it? It was hilarious. Two families, one black and one white, with very complicated make-up, managed to switch races for some predetermined length of time, in order to walk in the shoes of the other race. On his first day out, the black guy, made-up to look like a white man, went to buy some golf shoes. He was thoroughly shocked when the salesman sat on the little stool and took off the shoes he had worn to the store, and carefully shoehorned the golf shoe onto his foot. He said, in over 40 years of shopping, he had never had the shoe guy actually put his shoe on. Like I said, hilarious.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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HarlemHottie, so much of what you say is based upon faulty premises. And unless premises are accepted, no further progress can be made.

For example, you stated that blacks are almost totally disenfranchised from the job market, even the well educated. I disagree. We can all cite anecdotal evidence of a PhD not being able to find a job. I question his/her major. No engineer, doctor, lawyer, etc. is without work, at least the ones that I know. Social Studies majors may be, however.

Next you say that this is the reason that they leave their families and turn to drugs. I put forth a statistic of high, out-of-wedlock birth rates. There can be no out-of-wedlock birth rates if the parents are married. And bringing more mouths to feed into the world when you cannot support them is irresponsible.

And you fault the gov't for not caring about the drug problem. The war on drugs is one of the most costly failures we can claim as a nation. And it is because demand cannot be controlled.

And finally, I wonder about the moral stuffing of a person who turns to drugs out of frustration.

You bring up the fact that Jews received reparations. Well, my question is, did that stop anti-semitism? No. It is more widespread than ever. So I wonder what would be accomplished by reparations.

Then you agree with the person that states that a white person cannot understand the "black experience". Agreed. The reverse is also true. But they can understand the plight of the black person. And that is what is possible, so you have to work with that. Not some impossibility.

You also mention redlining. There are legal remedies for that practice. What else do you want? An apology?

When statements such as these are made

I must care about their things. I must also be prepared to intelligently discuss them and even to offer solutions for them or be deemed ignorant, regardless of my educational qualifications.

I ask myself, what does that mean? It is senseless, imo, not to mention ridiculous. That is why I asked you the list of questions about your experience with "blackspeak". Not to sound like an inquisition, but because it truly fascinates me that such scenarios exist today. I'm at least as old as you, and have never heard someone say "Oh, I didn't know you talked that way". It's almost like something out of a soap opera.

Sorry for rambling. I just wanted to say that I cannot accept many of your premises; that's why I'm having such a hard time understanding you.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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Majic,

This is great discussion so far. And Majic, just as you don't want to feel guilty for being White, I think I shouldn't feel guilty for being Black.

So, I would like to ask White people to stop thinking and presuming that Blacks are "angry all the time" and "out to get The Man".

But that doesn't preclude the right that we can be angry if we want to and say what we want without your input about how we express ourselves.

With all due respect, please stop putting us down, correcting us, talking badly about our culture and preaching that our words amount to racism. Words are on a low scale compared to the acts of virulence that have happened in the past by truly bigoted and hateful people.

This is a discussion. Harlem Hottie and myself should not have to feel guilty for voicing our concerns. And we should not have to be put on trial for doing so.

Then the racism from both sides should cease and desist, am I correct? Or is the accountability for racism too lopsided in trying to highlight it?

The other thing, Majic, is that your "finger-wagging" session about racism helps perpetuate the "Us vs. Them" mentality. Your words do not help. They really don't. People should not have to feel persecuted in conversing honestly about race. Posters cannot do that with the threat of being called "racist" hanging over their heads. If they did, the poster would have to censor everything that they say. It is just like having their posts pointed out as containing "aggressive tendencies" or "possessing an axe to grind".

You don't like to be called racist at every turn, do you not?

It's like burning a witch at the stake.

The difference between you and me is the fact that I don't go around calling people racist at the drop of a hat. But I see that this is a peculiar habit of the dominant culture. To be truthful, I find that you and a whole lot of others are quicker than an African-American in "crying and screaming racism". In fact, you "cry racism at every turn" quite frequently. It's fascinating. Why is that so?





[edit on 14-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I get this. I understand this. You're angry. But at whom? Do you discriminate or are all white people guilty and responsible?

I am choosy about where I place my guilt, mainly because, I don't like being wrong. On an everyday basis, I am probably nicer, to all people, than I sound on ATS. There are a lot of young, white people moving to Harlem now and when I see them looking lost, I approach them and try to help. I would hate to think that my negligence had caused someone to get robbed, or worse.

So, no, I don't hold racial stuff against people in normal life. Why should I? They don't make the major decisions. It's their leaders. OTOH, whenever I get on the subway, I get mad at white people, on a very personal level, because they sure use that privilege. For those of you not familiar with NY, the seats on the subways have no dividers, you're just squeezed up against each other, sweat, body odors and all. So, the key is to be polite. NY'ers know, there's a certain 'subway etiquette,' much like the global 'elevator etiquette': eyes forward, no breathing directly on people, no underarms in faces, and no touching. Yet, if there's an empty seat next to me when the train stops, I have to prepare for a white person (ALWAYS) to literally sprint though the door and collapse into a seat, thereby totally pushing and rubbing against the people on either side. Other people, no matter what race, approach seats quickly, but ease into them, giving the others a chance to re-adjust. I have seen this happen, and everybody else who noticed rolls their eyes, or sucks their teeth, or does something else to express disgust.

This happened to me once and the girl who sat next to me was with her boyfriend. She needed to cough, but, out of politeness, turned her head away from the guy. Unfortunately, I guess, that politeness didn't extend to me because, right then, she turned and coughed in my face. On what planet is that acceptable? I made some sound of disgust because she deigned to glance at me, at which point, she saw what I was reading: 'The Decipherment of Linear B.' Can you believe that she, having seen that I was an 'educated Negro', decided to move over and not hog the space? She even tapped her boyfriend, like, wooooow, look at what she's reading. When things like that happen, it pisses me off to the nth degree. You cannot understand how frustrating it is to just not be seen.

So, having said all that, in everyday life, I only think about racism, or white privilege, when it inconveniences me.



but I'll never know what it's like to be black. Because I'm not.

Yeah, I got that from another post you made, but I would have needed to edit, and I've been busy just keeping up.



Let me just share something here....
What's the difference?

I am so sorry. I had a close friend who had a similar experience with a friend's father at the same age, and she was still very traumatized several years later. I don't have any personal experience, but, as a woman, I can only imagine the violation, the ickiness of it all... I'm very sorry that you had to go through that, more than words can say. Are those bastards in jail?

But, let me address what you asked. I really don't even want to drag you back through the whole thing, but I want to make an analogy. Would you have felt worse after the whole thing if they had, then, locked you in a room, patted each other on the back and called their friends over? And then done the same thing to any daughters you may have had as a result?



HH - I'm not expecting you to say that everything's peachy. It's not. We all know that.

That's all I wanted. The first step to recovery, for all of us, is to admit that there's a problem.



I just don't understand how you expect to be reimbursed for experiencing racism. What would you like to see happen?

Honestly, I don't know. At this point, its just so difficult for people to admit that racism exists that I can't even wrap my mind around the prospect that they could. The very first thing on my list would be for the police to stop harrassing and killing our men ON CAMERA, changing venue for the trial, and getting off. The rest, I need to think about.



Women who STILL don't get the respect they deserve.

Look, BH, you're gonna have to handle that topic, because I am overwhelmed handling this one.
But, of course, I'll help if I can.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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I don't really think there is much we can do. We can try and educate our children in schools on the evils of racism. Unfortunately, most racists are bred at home. As long as their are parents who are willing to pass the "hate gene" onto their children, then we will always have some element of racism. As long as people are different from one another, we will have some form of racism. I admire those who fight to end racism, I just don't believe there will ever be complete victory over it. It's part of human nature to fear that which is different from us. Heck, its part of most of nature. I've seen dogs that for no apparant reason always react with hostility towards people of color.

I think the best we can do is to make people of all races equal in the eyes of the law. I feel we've done that, and them some, here in the US. I don't want to start a separate argument here, but I just feel that things like "affirmative action" are counter-productive and only encourage more racism. Show me someone who was passed up for a job or a scholarship or university acceptance because of affirmative action, and I'll show you a government-created racist!!



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
This is a discussion. Harlem Hottie and myself should not have to feel guilty for voicing our concerns. And we should not have to be put on trial for doing so.


I don't see this discussion as you and HH against the "dominant culture", we're all talking together. Just people. We ALL have the right to express ourselves equally and no one should feel guilty, no one is being burnt at the stake or put on trial. No one is trying to shut up the black folks. That's your fantasy. That's your perception. And might I add that's one of the biggest problems in your experience.


Originally posted by ceci2006
But that doesn't preclude the right that we can be angry if we want to and say what we want without your input about how we express ourselves.
...
With all due respect, please stop putting us down, correcting us, talking badly about our culture and preaching that our words amount to racism.


So... it's only right that you freely express yourself without input, but it's not ok for Majic to express himself without your input... I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this double standard, but I kind of am...

I don't understand how you can say that you should be allowed to express without input, but you have consistent input on what everyone else says. It's boggles my mind.



Your words do not help. They really don't.


I disagree. Majic's words are the truth and that will set you free. They help quite a bit. They may not help your cause, but they are true.


Originally posted by ceci2006
But I see that this is a peculiar habit of the dominant culture.


pssst... We know that the words "dominant culture" are just a substitute for "white people". You might as well come right out and say what you mean instead of hiding behind some politically correct phrase. Unless you want to start calling black people the Subservient Culture? Eeeww...

I understand why you use the phrases you do, though. It wouldn't exactly sound politically correct to say "But I see that this is a peculiar habit of white people." Would it?

When are you going to stand up and take your place in American Culture instead of accepting and feeding this Dominant and Subservient crap? I gave that up in the second grade when I realized my parents had lied to me about black people. When are you going to give it up? When are you going to deny this particular ignorance?



The difference between you and me is the fact that I don't go around calling people racist at the drop of a hat.


Majic didn't call anyone racist. He pointed out actions that are racist. Every time you see the word, it's not leveled at you.

And shall I point out where you have in fact called people racists? So don't even set yourself up against Majic as some sort of paragon of racial virtue.


Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Look, BH, you're gonna have to handle that topic, because I am overwhelmed handling this one.
But, of course, I'll help if I can.


I don't want you to handle it or your help. I just want your opinion. I want to know if you think they (we) deserve some kind of reparations, too.

I'm frustrated that the answers to what I consider the important questions aren't being offered and are being avoided. I can only assume that there's a reason for that.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
Currently there are 2 especially atrocious ads on tv. One has a black man commenting on the questions of a white woman. That's ok, but when you see and hear the "black face" type responses, it is oh so racist! Pure and simple. I think it is a GEICO ad. Right now I'm forgetting the other one. Back to you later if I remember before ATS shuts off my edit privilege.

donwhite
Might you be thinking about the Prudential Real Estate/Yahoo.com ad? You know, the one where the woman is called "Agent 24X7" ?

Still wondering about the Oreo ad..



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 07:12 PM
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Have We Found A Solution Yet?

I've shared my honest opinions about racism in this thread. Those who have read them now know how I feel about the subject (at least for now -- I change my mind a lot).

Will that solve anything? I'm not sure, and it seems rather doubtful for some very ironic reasons.

Still, I think talking about it does help.

I enjoyed posting in this and other public threads over the weekend and hopefully didn't put anyone off too much with my long, rambling and admittedly preachy soliloquys.

I spend most of my time doing mod stuff these days and don't get to spam the boards like I used to, and unfortunately don't have time to reply in kind to some of the excellent points raised in response to my posts.

But I hope no one takes that the wrong way (cop out!) or as an indication that I don't think this is an important topic. It definitely is, and I encourage anyone concerned about racism to discuss it candidly and see where it leads.

Already, it has led in some interesting directions and to some interesting places.


And hey, if anyone finds the solution, please be sure to let me know.





[edit on 8/14/2006 by Majic]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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BH, are you really talking to me? I thought you were taking "your struggle" in a different direction.


Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't see this discussion as you and HH against the "dominant culture", we're all talking together. Just people. We ALL have the right to express ourselves equally and no one should feel guilty, no one is being burnt at the stake or put on trial. No one is trying to shut up the black folks. That's your fantasy. That's your perception. And might I add that's one of the biggest problems in your experience.


And your perception about this issue is sane and correct?



So... it's only right that you freely express yourself without input, but it's not ok for Majic to express himself without your input... I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this double standard, but I kind of am...

I don't understand how you can say that you should be allowed to express without input, but you have consistent input on what everyone else says. It's boggles my mind.


You should really check yourself when you throw that finger around.


I disagree. Majic's words are the truth and that will set you free. They help quite a bit. They may not help your cause, but they are true.


Because you think Majic's words are true, they are? That's half the problem.

And "my cause"? Hell. I'm not Spartacus.




pssst... We know that the words "dominant culture" are just a substitute for "white people". You might as well come right out and say what you mean instead of hiding behind some politically correct phrase. Unless you want to start calling black people the Subservient Culture? Eeeww...


Then stop crying racism whenever you read "White people this" and "White people that..."

And besides, there isn't any terminology called the "subservient culture". So, who would use it? You?


I understand why you use the phrases you do, though. It wouldn't exactly sound politically correct to say "But I see that this is a peculiar habit of white people." Would it?


Of course not. When you've been accused of using racist speech, you try to make it as kind and gentle as possible to alleviate the tension. But you're no stranger of making it a bitter pill to swallow when you lecture what is the proper way to conduct ourselves while discussing culture and race. I'd think you were the Emily Post of racial ettiquette here.


When are you going to stand up and take your place in American Culture instead of accepting and feeding this Dominant and Subservient crap? I gave that up in the second grade when I realized my parents had lied to me about black people. When are you going to give it up? When are you going to deny this particular ignorance?


Why don't you accept that people have different ways of thinking about this issue other than your own? You are feeding this "Dominant and Subservient" crap by your own attitudes on this issue especially when you contribute "what is right" and "what isn't" in terms of dealing with race.

This seems hypocritical in its approach.

Look. I am lucky to know whites in the "real world" who are respectful, kind and loving individuals. Some have known my parents before I was born. Others have befriended me and have nurtured positive relationships based on honesty. On-line, you are one of them and demonstrated as such.

But you have a particular "ignorance" of your own if you assume that you know everything about Blacks and can tell us how we're supposed to perceive things. Believe me, the advice has been given over and over, and the "advice givers" have always reneged on their "welcoming speech" of joining American culture by putting Blacks and others of color in that "subservient position" immediately.

You can't blame a group of color for having scrutinizing attitudes towards the "dominant culture". They've lied and lied again about their intentions.


Majic didn't call anyone racist. He pointed out actions that are racist. Every time you see the word, it's not leveled at you.


Is that your interpretation? Or Majic's? Besides, I believe you less when you call everyone and everything "racist" according to your "low bar of tolerance".


And shall I point out where you have in fact called people racists? So don't even set yourself up against Majic as some sort of paragon of racial virtue.


So I have called people racists. You have too. Big deal.

I'd hardly set you up as a paragon of "racial virtue" even though people can be misled to think so by your tearful confessions and saccharine admittances of combatting racism "before I was born". Mrs. Dorothy Height and Mrs. Myrlie Evers also combatted racism before I was born. They deserve much more respect and honor for being out there in the front lines before it was considered "politically correct" to do so. And they did it with less tears and more grit, I might add.

Besides, I would never call myself a "paragon of racial virtue" because I am not perfect. I have said it many times. And, yes, I'll have to repeat this once again. I'm sorry that I have to do so, but some people just won't understand.












[edit on 15-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
pssst... We know that the words "dominant culture" are just a substitute for "white people". You might as well come right out and say what you mean instead of hiding behind some politically correct phrase. Unless you want to start calling black people the Subservient Culture? Eeeww...

As has been pointed out, "subservient culture" has not yet been qualified as part of the acceptable PC lexicon. Try using "downtrodden", "oppressed", or "victims" instead.


Oh, the hoops we are expected to jump through!



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:14 PM
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I have no problem using the word "victim"--especially when it describes your actions. You are such an easy mark when you talk about issues of race.

Thank you for your contributions, though. They've been very enlightening.




[edit on 14-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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Oh, I'm a victim, alright - a victim of LOVE!


Time for nighty-night. Buh-bye!



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 12:22 AM
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It's just like you to trivialize a "serious conversation". Don't be surprised if your push for "serious conversation" is found a little hypocritical. But I guess, it is all right when you do it and others do not. Is that so?

[edit on 15-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 05:56 AM
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Oh, yeah, it's easy to trivialize when you throw insults around, ceci. Like "You are such an easy mark". Every exchange from you includes at least one insult. Who can take you seriously when you say that you apologize to everyone "except for FlyersFan and jsobecky"? And you ask me: "Are you a victim or a racist?"

Sorry, it's not working. It rolls off my back...



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 07:36 AM
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That's nice to hear. Now, we've got to return back to discuss this topic seriously. Unfortunately, you are side-tracking the issue and derailing the thread.

Let this one roll off your back as well.


[edit on 15-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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Good morning everyone! It's so nice to wake up and have my morning coffee with a side of vitriol!



Originally posted by ceci2006
Believe me, the advice has been given over and over, and the "advice givers" have always reneged on their "welcoming speech" of joining American culture by putting Blacks and others of color in that "subservient position" immediately.


I just wanted to say that this is a big lightbulb, for me anyway. If black people (or any race or minority) see the US as "white people's country" and that they have to be 'welcomed' to join the American culture, it's no wonder they feel in a subservient position. No doubt you've been raised with that mindset. That this isn't your country.

Well... That's BS. You were born here and it's as much your country as it is mine. And I invite you to deny the lies told to you by your parents, just as I denied the lies told to me by mine about black people.

I offer no welcoming speech. And I owe you none. No more than you owe me one. That's what I mean when I say stand up and take your place. Stop waiting for the white people to offer something to you or be nice to you or make you feel welcome. This is your home as much as ours! You are not a guest here! It's yours! You ARE part of American culture!

By the way, Ceci, it's clear to all who can read that I didn't say any of what you attributed to me in your recent accusatory post, but stuffing words in my mouth is nothing new for you. And I never said I wasn't talking to you. I don't get pissed off and dramatically stomp out of threads and slam the door only to re-enter the next time I have something to say... My head is much cooler than that.

More coffee is needed...




[edit on 15-8-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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And your posts aren't accusatory?


At any rate, I'm glad what I said in that passage was a great light bulb for you. I also hope that you got the next line too: they lied and lied again.

What you don't understand is that these aren't tales told out of school. America hasn't been quite welcoming of any group of color. The latest of which are the undocumented workers from South America.

The first thing that is offensive is that you accuse me of having a "subservient mentality". I don't.

I don't see America as a "White person's country", despite what you think. And it is particularly insulting for you to say that I do. However, a lot of white people do see the United States as a nation only for them and they say so all the time. That's the problem.

And until "white people" get that realization down, then the problems of racism can't be addressed.

You can't pretend that joining "American culture" will solve everything. It doesn't. It only serves to force people of color to give up their culture and go through "social amnesia" to satisfy whites. Furthermore, it helps whites to not "feel guilty" over the past.

Well, it doesn't stop white people for making people of color feel guilty, does it not?

I'd say that white people have that blank check to still finger-wag, cajole and lie to get people of color to give up their culture. However, while this is happening the cultures belonging to whites remain in tact.

But I can see that you don't want to feel guilty. You don't even acknowledge all the times I've told you that you've misconstrued my words.

Don't worry. The same lies and "good intentions" put the Native Americans on reservations.






[edit on 15-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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best way to help race relations is to more evenly distribute the wealth which had been earned because of the exploitation of minorities.



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
best way to help race relations is to more evenly distribute the wealth which had been earned because of the exploitation of minorities.

Several reasons:

o Reparations did nothing to eliminate anti-semitism. Hatred for Jews is more widespread today than it ever was.

o It is unfair to single out one group for reparations. My grandfather worked for peanuts in a coal mine; my father worked in a steel mill. Their efforts made those industries the wealthiest in the world at the time. They fit the description of being "exploited". But, they were white men.

o How could you tell an African-American from somebody from Haiti, Bermuda, Brazil, the Dominican Republic, etc.? They all pass the color test.



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