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The most Credible Quotes concerning UFOs. Astronauts, World Leaders, Scientists ...

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posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

"The UFO phenomenon being reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious"
--General Nathan Twining Chairman, Joint chiefs of staff, 1955-1958


Just to give another example of the sort of references that I think it would be useful to add in relation to each quotation (and to illustrate why the references are important), I'll take the "quote" above...

It is based on possibly the most famous quotation from an official US Air Force document relating to UFOs.

However, the actual quotation is in fact "The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious".

The quote given in this thread is therefore slightly inaccurate, with several words being added without any indication that they do not appear in the original document.

This somewhat undermines the credibility of the list of quotes being prepared, or at least underlines the importance of giving references.

So that other people can check the accuracy of the quotation, look into the authenticity of the relevant document, and (possibly most importantly) consider the context of the quotation, I note that the actual quotation appeared in a memo dated 23 September 1947 from Lt-General Nathan F Twining (chief of Air Materiel Command) to Brig-General George Schulgen (Commanding General, Army Air Forces) which reported on the current knowledge of UFOs and recommends that a permanent project be set up to study them. (Commonly referred to as “the Twining memo” or “the Twining letter”).


An image of the relevant memo has presented been presented in several books, including by:

(1) Brookesmith, Peter in his “UFO: The Government Files” (1996) at pages 22-23 (in Chapter 1) of the Parragon hardback edition.

(2) Swords, Michael D in “The Roswell Report : A Historical Perspective” (1991) (edited by Eberhart, George) at pages 31-33 (in the unnumbered chapter entitled “The summer of 1947 : UFOs and the US government at the beginning”) of the CUFOS paperback edition.



The complete text of the memo is presented in several books, including by:

(1) Steiger, Brad in his “Project Blue Book” (1976) at pages 214-216 of the Ballantine Books paperback edition (in Chapter Eight).

(2) Shawcross, Tim in his “The Roswell File” (1997) at pages 138-140 (in Chapter 8) of the Bloomsbury softcover edition.


The complete text of the memo is also available online at:
www.project1947.com...
www.nicap.org...


Significantly (in terms of the credibility of the claims that the document is a genuine US Air Force memo) the complete text of the memo is quoted in the Condon Report at Appendix R. See
ncas.sawco.com...
www.project1947.com...



Notable discussions of the memo (though far from an exhaustive list) include the discussions by:

(1) Major Hector Quintanilla, with full text, in his unpublished manuscript entitled “UFOs: An Air Force Dilemma” (copyright 1974) at pages 5-6 of the manuscript, at pages 18-19 of the NIDS pdf version available free on-line on various websites, including at the following link:
www.nidsci.org...

(2) Klass, Philip J in his “The Real Roswell Crashed-Saucer Coverup” (1997) at pages 28-29 (in Chapter 2), 60-61 (in Chapter 7), 174 (in Chapter 22), 204-206 (in Chapter 26) of the Prometheus Books hardback edition.

(3) Good, Timothy (with images of complete memo) in his “Beyond Top Secret” (1996) at pages 311, 313-315, 316-317 (in Chapter 14) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Pan paperback edition).

(4) Good, Timothy in his “Above Top Secret” (1987) at pages 253-255 (in Chapter 11), with image of complete memo at pages 472-474 (in the Appendix) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Guild Publishing hardback edition and the Grafton paperback edition).

(5) In the Condon Report at pages 844, 874 (in Section 5, Chapter 2 “UFOs: 1947-1968”, by Edward U Condon) of the edition available free online at the following links:
ncas.sawco.com...
www.project1947.com...

(6) Dolan, Richard M in his “UFOs and the National Security State: Volume 1” (2000) at pages 80-82 (in Chapter 2) of the Keyhole softcover edition, at pages 43-44 of the 2002 revised Hampton Road softcover edition.

(7) Maccabee, Bruce in his “UFO FBI Connection” (2000) at pages 19-22 (in Chapter 3) of the Llewellyn softcover edition.

(8) Randle, Kevin and Schmitt, Donald in their “The Truth About the UFO Crash At Roswell” (1994) at pages 85-91, 92, 93 (in Chapter 13) of the Evans hardback edition.

(9) Randle, Kevin D in his “A history of UFO crashes” (1995) at pages 147, 149, 151-156 (in the unnumbered chapter entitled “The Twining Letter”) of the Avon paperback edition.

(10) Randle, Kevin D in his “The Roswell Encyclopedia” (2000) at pages 312 (in an entry entitled “The Real Roswell Crashed-Saucer Coverup by Philip J Klass”), 368-369 (in an entry entitled “Twining, General Nathan F (1897-1982)”), 369-377 (in an entry entitled “The Twining Letter”) of the Quill softcover edition.

(11) Ruppelt, Edward J in his “The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects” (1956) at pages at 15-16 (in Chapter 2) of the original 17 chapter Doubleday hardback edition, at pages 31-32 of the Gollancz hardback edition, at page 26 of the Ace paperback edition, at pages 15-16 of the 1959 revised Doubleday 20 chapter hardback edition, at page 11 of the reprinted Source Books softcover edition. The first of these editions (i.e. the original 17 chapter hardback edition) has the same page numbering as the version available online at:
www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk...

All the best,

Isaac Koi




posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 03:48 AM
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IsaacKoi, Toc, Ectoterrestrial, ArMaP, & Access Denied,

I am highly inclined to agree with all of you. When the idea of such a thread presented itself to me I began looking at many sources ranging from books, documents, and the internet. If quotes within this thread which were presented by me turn out to be discredited, neither my pride nor my ego will be bruised, however it was not my intention to mislead anyone, i assure you.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
By the way, while I think that this is an interesting thread, I think that it would be _much_ more valuable if attempts were made in relation to _each_ quotation to provide as precise a supporting reference as possible.

Also, it would be very useful in confirming the accuracy of quotations (and understanding their context) if the supporting references were not simply to websites containing the relevant quotes, but to the actual source documents or source articles (e.g. giving the date and issue of a relevant magazine, rather than a link to a UFO website which states that a comment was made in an interview for a magazine).



Originally posted by Toc
I would like this post to be stickied please. Is there a way to get it stickied?
I think this is an important thread. I'll assist in finding the original source of any quotes, to my best possible when i have time.



Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
I have to agree with Isaac, that in order to make this thread as important as it could be, citations and references, the formal kind, are important.

There are a many reasons why citations and references are important in this issue:

(1) Made up information: This field has a rampant collection of made up quotes, and more commonly, misinterpreted quotes taken out of context, sometimes quite deliberately.

(2) Event Context: Many times, quotes refer to events and the events are not understandable without a referential context.

(3) Known Hoaxes: Some of these quotes are associated with hoaxes in which even the originators have recanted them. Most arent', but a few are. Its important to identify those.

(4) Multiple Versioning with Sources: Many stories of quotes and such get passed down and mutate over time. They vary dependent on the source you look at. Identifying which mutation you are looking at (by identifying your reference source) helps catalog this and helps deter people from paraphrasing, and otherwise continuing the information loss/mutation process.

(5) Trace: The key reason for references is that the paper trail backs up the consistency of one's claim. Fact checking becomes more resolute.



Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Just to give another example of the sort of references that I think it would be useful to add in relation to each quotation (and to illustrate why the references are important), I'll take the "quote" above...

It is based on possibly the most famous quotation from an official US Air Force document relating to UFOs.

However, the actual quotation is in fact "The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious".

The quote given in this thread is therefore slightly inaccurate, with several words being added without any indication that they do not appear in the original document.


Originally posted by ArMap
I agree with IsaacKoi.



Originally posted by Access Denied
Amazing work Issac! No one can accuse you of not doing your homework.


If the quotes I have presented turn out to be inaccurate, it was most assuredly not my intentions.

I whole heartedly agree with all of you. In order for this thread to reach the potential many of us think it could, we must be willing to analyze and learn all we can about the context and intent behind each alleged quote. But, alas we are all only one person with multiple responsibilities and obligations in life.

It takes time and a concerted effort by many to isolate the facts. This thread could be an Outstanding thread, and the choice is ours to make it such, or not.

The level of credibility of this thread would climb with each piece of information concerning all quotes being relayed in this thread. No one of us can find all the information, although a great effort has been demonstrated by many in this thread. (Thanks Guys).

What path to take, where to go from here?

We each know our strong points and our weak points better than the other members do here, I would think. So, find one of the quotes that intrigue you the most and research all known info on it to include all the points that have been brought up by the contributors of this thread.

We could make this into a very effective thinktank/research project.

Perhaps (and this is only a suggestion) we clump the quotes in catagories such as “Presidents”, “Astronaut/Cosmonauts”, “Scientists”, “Government Officials”, and so forth, and then each of us pick a category to work on and research, and present our findings.

But when we are doing so, we should try to remain balanced, which may mean presenting information we find, but may not agree with. Any and all information found or discovered concerning any quote should be shared in a concentrated effort to find some truth in this subject matter.

If anyone here believes that I may have purposefully introduced false information in a context of a quote, I assure you all it was not my intention. I merely wanted to compile as long a list as I could of the most credible quotes, and in doing so may have been mislead by some myself.

I promise to all contributors on this subject matter that I am sure some may be found to be something other than what we thought it to be. But through genuine effort, and time management (we all have obligations and responsibilities outside ATS) we can make this a far better thread than it has been to date.

I sincerely agree with all of you, and will press forward in my research. I think I’ll start with presidential quotes. It may turn out to be time consuming, but the rewards will most surely be worth it, as long as the truth is our objective, and not our personal best interests, or imaginations for that matter.

Thanks again for your contributions.


[edit on 1-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I am highly inclined to agree with all of you. When the idea of such a thread presented itself to me I began looking at many sources ranging from books, documents, and the internet. If quotes within this thread which were presented by me turn out to be discredited, neither my pride nor my ego will be bruised, however it was not my intention to mislead anyone, i assure you.


Hi Esoteric Teacher,

I just wanted to make it absolutely clear that I wasn't implying that you were intending to mislead anyone. I'm just a big fan of supporting references, for all sorts of reasons.

The points that you make about limited time and resources are ones that I'm aware of from my personal experience. There is only so much time in the day, and few of us can spend much time on ufology.

It's because of those very factors that I'd suggest the obvious starting point is to spend a bit of time finding (and trying to get others on ATS to find) places where someone has already done at least some of the work already.

For example, I have in mind several books that have sought to collate quotations along similar lines to those in this thread, but have sought to give _some_ references. (Although in most cases it would be desirable to improve on those references, at least it would be a start).

So, as far as I'm concerned the first question _has_ to be: where are quotations (with references) already collated?

I'm sure some members of ATS could provide useful links, and your original post included several interesting links.

In terms of books, I have in mind in particular Don Berliner's "UFO Briefing Document" (1995). That book contains over 50 pages of quotations attributed to astronauts, scientists, presidents (including the Truman quotation that you like), military officials and others. Most importantly, it includes brief references supporting each quotation (allowing some checking to be done).

Don Berliner's book, by the way, was endorsed by CUFOS, FUFOR and MUFON as containing "the best available evidence for the existence of UFOs" and can be obtained second hand quite cheaply via Abebooks.com and other internet websites.

All the best,

Isaac



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
In terms of books, I have in mind in particular Don Berliner's "UFO Briefing Document" (1995). That book contains over 50 pages of quotations attributed to astronauts, scientists, presidents (including the Truman quotation that you like), military officials and others. Most importantly, it includes brief references supporting each quotation (allowing some checking to be done).

Don Berliner's book, by the way, was endorsed by CUFOS, FUFOR and MUFON as containing "the best available evidence for the existence of UFOs" and can be obtained second hand quite cheaply via Abebooks.com and other internet websites.

All the best,

Isaac


Thanks VERY much Isaac. I have added the book to my list of books to buy, and will probably get it within a month. Thanks for the info.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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Are you waiting for a Press Conference in which the Press Secretary relays to the press the very words that prove they know that we are being visited by craft that are not from Earth?

How would you respond if President Bush’s Press Secretary came up to the podium and stated “What is flying around in our skies is very real and not constructed by any power on Earth”?

It is exactly what believers are waiting for, and would probably shut some skeptics up real quickly.

Well, wait no longer. What you are waiting for happen, over 56 years ago!!

Presidential Quotes Concerning UFOs:

Let me begin with one of my favorites. Why is this my personal favorite?

Because it is exactly what the believers are waiting for. It is a Presidential Press Secretary releasing a statement from a President of the United States of America, of which was never publicly disputed, nor denied by President Truman.

Okay, let me begin with one of my personal favorites:


I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth."

— President Harry S. Truman


Source/Link:
www.presidentialufo.com...


Truman and his long-time friend and Press Secretary Charles Ross. Ross handled the press in the days following the Roswell crash, and prevented the story from becoming a public relations concern.
In April 1950, he passed a message to the press from President Truman saying, " I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth." (photo: Truman library)


Other good link for quotes I just found which mentions President Truman’s quote, but not its context:
www.stargate-chronicles.com...
www.qtm.net...
www.search-for-aliens.com...
www.stealthskater.com...
angelicinfusion.com...




Source/Link:
www.projectprove.com...


"I can assure you the flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth." President Harry S. Truman - Press conference, Washington DC, April 4, 1950.


I’m not sure of the validity of the claims made on this sight, but this link/source suggests that President Truman also wrote a letter to numerous individuals/Leaders to our allied nation. This may be one of the first disinformation attempts, but it seems to suggest that President Truman had seen the wreckage of the supposed crash in Roswell:
www.qtm.net...


The papers, signed by President Harry Truman who saw the dead aliens, were addressed to the most powerful figures in Britain. Then Prime
Minister Clement Atlee got a copy, as did Winston Churchill, King George VI, the Queen Mother and select members of the House of Lords.
The leaders' reactions reportedly ranged from shock and amazement to outright fear. The document itself stressed the need to keep the recovery operation secret to avoid "a massive religious backlash and worldwide panic." It went on to describe the extraterrestrials in chilling detail.
"Four small human-like beings apparently ejected from the craft before it exploded and crashed in America's southwest," said the report.
"All four were dead and decomposed due to predators and exposure to the elements before their discovery. The beings were between four and five feet tall. They wore tight-fitting silver jumpsuits. Their heads were disproportionately large, with oversized brown eyes, slanted in t he head. Their noses and mouth were mere slits. They had small holes for ears."
The document went on to say that pieces of the starship were strewn for miles. Analysis showed fragments to be a strong and lightweight metal but were otherwise inconclusive. The report did not pinpoint the location of the crash, nor did it say where the bodies and fragment s were taken. But the likeliest destination was Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio - where the bodies of four more humaniods w ere taken after a second crash 10 years later.
Though the U.S. Government has never confirmed either crash, UFO experts are convinced that both wreckage and bodies are still preserved . In fact a super-secret government agency, code-named PI 40, keeps tabs on alien visitors and briefs U.S. Presidents on UFO developments past and present, the British source said.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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It may be a result of my lack of knowledge about the English language, but that part, "given that they exist", isn't the same as saying "if they exist"?

If it is, than he didn't said that they exist.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
It may be a result of my lack of knowledge about the English language, but that part, "given that they exist", isn't the same as saying "if they exist"?

If it is, than he didn't said that they exist.



I'm questioning that very precept lately myself. But if something "Is a given" does it mean the same as "is an IF"?

What do other members think this statement means?

If something "is a given", is it the same as when one says "Given that"?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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i thought some relatively newbie's might enjoy ... .



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:49 AM
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How 'bout an "oldbie"?


Good thread. I've followed it off and on since it began.

As to this-


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
If something "is a given", is it the same as when one says "Given that"?


When one says "given that", it's an expression not normally used in casual conversation. It's more typically used in a formal paper or debate. Or speech, apparently. It's taken to mean "assuming this is the case". It's like a mathematical "if-then" statement. If x=a then y=?. Could be restated as "given that x=a then y=?". Does x=a? Well, we aren't saying that definitively, but if it does then solve for y. In this instance you're assuming something for the sake of the exercise.

So I believe Truman's statement could accurately be interpreted as "If there are flying saucers, they're not ours".

But that's just me. I'm one of the clinically psychotic undecideds on the whole ET visitation question. It's possible but I'm not prepared to say it's definite.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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several quotes from various UFO experts. The explanations given by Whitley Streiber (an “alien” abductee) are particularly noteworthy as they are identical to signs of diabolical possession:
"A large part of the available UFO literature is closely linked with mysticism and the metaphysical. It deals with subjects like mental telepathy, automatic writing and invisible entities as well as phenomena like poltergeist [ghost] manifestation and 'possession.' Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena."
- Lynn E. Catoe, UFOs and Related Subjects: USGPO, 1969; prepared under AFOSR Project Order 67-0002 and 68-0003

"But the UFO phenomenon simply does not behave like extraterrestrial visitors. It actually molds itself in order to fit a given culture."
- John Ankerberg, The Facts on UFOs and Other Supernatural Phenomena, p. 10

"UFO behaviour is more akin to magic than to physics as we know it ... the modern UFOnauts and the demons of past days are probably identical."
-Dr. Pierre Guerin, FSR Vol. 25, No. 1, p. 13-14

"The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon..."
- John A. Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 299

"A working knowledge of occult science ... is indispensable to UFO investigation."
-Trevor James, FSR Vol. 8, No. 1, p.10

"Studies of flying saucer cults repeatedly show that they are part of a larger occult social world."
-Stupple & McNeece, 1979 MUFON UFO Symposium Proceedings, p. 49
www.tldm.org...


~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trimmed big cut/paste and added link


[edit on 12-10-2006 by masqua]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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www.crossroad.to... The Facts on UFOs and other Supernatural Phenomena
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who are some of the leading UFO researchers who recognize that UFOs are an occultic and/or demonic phenomenon?"

Dr. Jacques Vallee:

"We are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness, independent of man but closely linked to the earth.... I do not believe anymore that UFOs are simply the spacecraft of some race of extraterrestrial visitors. This notion is too simplistic to explain their appearance, the frequency of their manifestations through recorded history, and the structure of the information exchanged with them during contact." 51

"[An] impressive parallel [can] be made between UFO occupants and the popular conceptions of demons."61 "[UFOs can] project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems." 62 "...human belief... is being controlled and conditioned," "man's concepts are being rearranged," and we may be headed toward "a massive change of human attitudes toward paranormal abilities and extraterrestrial life."63


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trimmed big cut/paste and added 'ex' tags



[edit on 12-10-2006 by masqua]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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"[An] impressive parallel [can] be made between UFO occupants and the popular conceptions of demons."61 "[UFOs can] project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems." 62 "...human belief... is being controlled and conditioned," "man's concepts are being rearranged," and we may be headed toward "a massive change of human attitudes toward paranormal abilities and extraterrestrial life."63


i am certainly convinced of this myself. thanks for the contributions, and the sources.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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Would anyone else like to share any respectable quotes they may have heard of concerning the ufo phenomenon?



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 07:20 AM
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Check the quote in my signature....has to be one of my favorite along this line....



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by ArMaP
It may be a result of my lack of knowledge about the English language, but that part, "given that they exist", isn't the same as saying "if they exist"?

If it is, than he didn't said that they exist.



I'm questioning that very precept lately myself. But if something "Is a given" does it mean the same as "is an IF"?

What do other members think this statement means?

If something "is a given", is it the same as when one says "Given that"?


This is a clever way of admitting existence without admitting existence.

"Given that they exist" This is meant as an out, if they ever needed to explain the quote. So let's take that part out and we have "I can assure you that flying saucers are not constructed by any power on earth"

So then the question becomes "How can you assure me of anything, if you are not sure it exists?" So, I see this as an assurance of existence, with a clever way out of admittance if ever questioned on the issue.

[edit on 6-1-2007 by pompano]



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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It could simply be a mistakenly said word too.

"given that they exist" may mean that he meant to say "assuming they exist".

Quotes are great, but really such interpretations are just semantics, as you can't take the possibility of someone saying one wrong word out of the equation. I'd imagine that each of us uses at least one incorrect word each day, when we really meant to use another.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 10:00 AM
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I have tried to tell you they are under the surface of the Moon for a looooooooong time but maybe now since Arnstrong and Aldrin said it looooooooong ago also you might get the hint that they are under the surface. It works this way with all in this Solar System they are terraforming everything, I think that woulld make them busy beavers.

I just shake my head at the skeptics in this day and age.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
It could simply be a mistakenly said word too.

"given that they exist" may mean that he meant to say "assuming they exist".

Quotes are great, but really such interpretations are just semantics, as you can't take the possibility of someone saying one wrong word out of the equation. I'd imagine that each of us uses at least one incorrect word each day, when we really meant to use another.


Let's say he meant to say assume, the general theme remains the same. How can you assure(a fact) me they are not constucted of any power on earth, if you only assume they exist.

Its because the assumption is really a reality.



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by pompano

Originally posted by Gazrok
It could simply be a mistakenly said word too.

"given that they exist" may mean that he meant to say "assuming they exist".



This is becoming an old arguement for me, which i neither lost nor won.

Although the word "given" could be meant as "assuming", or various other parrallel meanings of it, the word "given" according to other accepted meanings could have meant that it was a given that it was a fact, so the meaning could have meant that it was already accepted as fact that ufos were a real phenomenon, of which could not be argued, since it was accepted as fact.

But then again, it could have been meant as "assuming", in the context used. In a different thread concerning the same question as to what was meant, me and a couple other members had a rather long debate on this very issue.

Link to thread concerning President Truman's press release:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What we found were (believe it or not) the same amount of words supplied by the thesaurus and defintions from dictionaries split our arguements right down the middle.

In other words the "official" accepted meanings of the word as used in it's context could have meant both things, equally. And the whole arguement from both sides was null and moot, due to the facts we found.

So, unfortunatley, it is dependant upon the individual to determine whether President Truman's press statement was a statement in support of skeptics, or in support of ufologists, or in support to perpetuate the contemplations of such concepts by the people.

Personally i pick the third option, given the facts are what the facts are, and the word means different things to different people, of different regions, and in different eras or times. But, then i ask myself:
"Then, why would such an ambigious statement be made, and what were the intentions and justification behind it?


Those are my thoughts on the subject of President Truman's press release.

However, Gazrok's signature from President Reagan is perhaps far less open for translation. It means what it means, and was given to the United Nations by someone who was nicknamed "The Great Communicator".

Perhaps, enough said, ... perhaps.

thanks,
john

(balanced)

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by longhaircowboy
Eso, while I find your effort admirable, if you're attempting to say that because these quoted persons are anymore reliable as witness' than the thousands I've personally interviewed through the years then maybe I should holler foul. Just because a person holds a special position is no guarantee of accuracy.
I submit that just cause these folk say it's so doesn't make it so. After all we're still just discussing hearsay evidence as opposed to physical.
I've interviewed cops and firemen and computer geeks. I've chatted with housewives and military personnel. Does it prove there are flaming chariots flying through the skies? Nope.
You can quote as many people as you like but in the end we're just left with opinion and speculation until the dam thing runs outta gas and crashes into the White House.
Afterall even 'they' need cheap fuel.


Another typical denial
Gotta love it. You guys crack me up. I enjoy reading this. They don't need fuel, Quantum Vacuum is an unlimited source of energy.



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