I read the first sentence of the OP sourced text and the text and proposed idea whatever it be lost absolute credibility. The fact that Masonry traces back AT LEAST half a millennia before Buddha negates the sources claim. Honestly is it that hard to try to proof the texts provided or assess them to any logical degree?

I do not know what is worse, the fact that this thread continued for three pages in what i can only assume is apparent discussion over the OP or that people actually thought such could possibly warrant discussion and chose to provide "their insights" into a blatantly ignorant and misrepresentation of reality, fact, and belief.

I hasten to add, after looking at many of the suggested materials to study, most have little to do with this thread and the ones that do are surely not well known for a good reason. Buddhist building stone henge?! come on.

The Torah is the source of all wisdom.

Of course, Masons are taught that the Torah is gnostic and the biblical israelites were gnostics; and yet, what are todays Jews? what is the Zohar, Talmud? Midrash? Mishna? Whats amazing is that these gnostics are audacious enough to assert that gnostics wrote these books. Despite the fact that todays Jews are completely fixated on the practical 613 mitzvot of religious obserance. Serving G-d in love and awe, and uniting the finite and infnite through faith. Yet, despite all this, i read all the time from the sordid mouth of gnostics that a certain talmudic sage meant this when he said this; or they'll quote the Zohar, the midrash or mishna to support a view.

These people are complete scumbag sociopathic megalomaniacs - a symptom of convincing yourself of being a god.

I have no problem with buddhism, islam or christianity. Its these dualistic moral currents in them who havent a shred of shame that disgusts me. The rabbinic sages recieved a tradition about the 7 laws of Noach which all mankind must follow for there to be peace (symbolizd by the 7 colors of the rainbow) in the world; do not kill, steal, blaspheme G-d, commit idolatry, eat the raw flesh of an animal, do not be sexually immoral and establish a just legal system. Each of these parraleling the 7 lower sefirot.

The UN and their goons, the pagan/gnostic Catholic church and the sufic forces within islam, along with the east, all want to undue the divine predictions written in the Hebrew writings.

Alice Bailey clarified their views in her book new world order

"The gradual dissolution - again if in any way possible - of the Orthodox Jewish faith, with its obsolete teaching, its separative emphasis."

Even here henchman Robert Muller, under secretary general for 45 years, dbbed "the UN philosopher" based his entrire ideology on bailes 25 books. This is what this Israel situation of today is all about. The secular zionists, illuminati, etc, trying to prevent the orthodox Jews from commandeering control of the state.

Also, to those who denigrate faith and deify experience; you need to study some more kabbalah; plus learn Hebrew. There are two modes in which Gd relates with man. Through the name Elohim - as the name implies, its a pluralistic; Elohim literally means ''powers'. It has the same gematria as HaTeva (nature). Thus, the pagans worship G-d through this name. Howver, in kabbalah this name is the source of judgment and G-ds acting through screens. YHVH on the other hand is the true archetypal force that acts in the world. Ths name uses the name Elohim as a garment to bring about a limited reality. The name YHVH is known only through prayer. The Torah talks of Elohim creating the world. Not once in the act of creation is YHVH mentioned. Only at the end of day 6 does it say "and Elohim rested". Thus, at the end of 6000 years, The name Elohim - the mode of knowing Gd through nature, will rest, And thus the next verse and "When YHVH Elohim made heaven and earth" thus reveaing that YHVH IS Elohim, albeit hidden within its workings. Only man can reveal this name through his divine service of following the 7 noachide laws and the Jews being able to serve Gd according to the Torah in Israel. When this name is revealed, the laws of causation will shift from what it is now to the spiritual - what you do morally - directly influencing the physical. Thus, mans life will be radically changed. Knowledge of G-d will permeate the world. The pagan leaders are working to prevent this, in their diabolical arrogance.

Theyre even following the Rabbinic writings and prophecies. Zohar says, Edom(US) will attack Paras (iran) , paras will than attack the world. Another one says Paras will also attack Arav (saudi arabia). Another midrash talks of how in the end of days Esau (the west) will attempt to use Ishmael (islam) as a sword against Jacob..

and one of the most ancient midrashs, 2000 years old, says something truly amazing about the end times. It says Ishmael will have a house built on the temple mount (660 years before the muslims built the dome of the rock). The Jews will go up to the ishmalites and say to them we want to tear te house down and build the holy temple. The ishmaelites will than make a wager with them and a great test of faith will ensue for the Jews.

Ultimately, as the propehets say, the Temple will be rebuilt in a tme of war (the coming iran, lebanon, syria etc)

Originally posted by dontreally
Of course, Masons are taught that the Torah is gnostic and the biblical israelites were gnostics...

Their are no lessons in Masonry that dictate what the Torah may or may not be or whether the Israelites were Gnostics.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by dontreally
Of course, Masons are taught that the Torah is gnostic and the biblical israelites were gnostics...

Their are no lessons in Masonry that dictate what the Torah may or may not be or whether the Israelites were Gnostics.

Well i do know this is whats taught. The Torah is above the core of all mystical wisdom. Other traditions are speculative; the Torah is directly given from the creator of the universe to Man; MoSheH, which happens to be HaSheM backwards.

Im not against any other tradition. I think they all add something unique and special to the divine diversity Gd created. However, Torah is central to mankind. The Jewish people are central; and indeed the greater world is a reflection of their 'world'....

I know Samuel Aen Weor; satanist, mason, etc, a gnostic, teaches a very untrue and mendacious version of Torah. Its completely hilarious in my mind that anything in the Torah could ever be used to serve the antinomian nature of gnostic philosophy. The Torah talks all the time about performing G-ds mizvot; which refers to not being Toeva (abhorrent) to god. Not to engage in the pagan practices of the surrounding nations - sex rites, drinking blood, eating raw flesh (all dionysian type rites), human sacrifice (to Mammon lets say, for the sake of being reincarnated as a rich man etc). All these are morally evil and perverted actions.

The G-d of Israel, the true G-d, who masons i suppose call the Grand architect of the universe, wants all mankind to follow these restrictions in human conduct. There needs to be walls; bondaries, and i really do hope this is a belief that masons follow.

Antinomian philosophy; whether that be Jungian psychology, Gnosticism, Theosophy, Sufism, or Sabbatean Kabbalah, is evil, wrong and is an enormously morally bankrupt mentality that only mocks the idea of unity.

What orthodox Kabbalah teaches is for man to seek G-d and know hm in all your ways. To treat others will love and care; to also hav great fear of the creator and the restrictions he create; t know hat by sinning in one way youve separated yourself from him; an action as serious and suicidal as jumping into a fire. You could do it, but you see the consquences

things appear differently becaus of the dominance of the nations; Esau, Chrstendom and Islam, with their hidden pagan values, which causes Gd to relate to his creation through the attribute of strict judgement.

It takes all of us to change that.

What sickens me to death is the gnostics really are so self absorbed that their spirituality isnt a true care for another; but a care in themselves that they only realize by seeing it in another. How corrupted and negative this attitude is. Its terrifying stuff; as CG Jung said, christians and Jews "have rejected the dark God" - the Satan. And look what this belief leads to. Look at what it does.

It forces fiction on reality and dicates to the ignoramuses whats real and whats the image. Thus, in ancient greek "identity and identical are from the same root; the human and his image are both “that one” (id), in some sense, “the same” (idem). This fundamental confusion and doubling is virtual reality’s source and the loss of the most essential boundary, self from image, truth from fiction.'"

Also in teresting is the fact that the wood holly is usd as a symbol for truth in heraldry. Meaning hollywood and its fiction making also shapes and creates 'reality'. In the minds of hollywoods controllers, the lies they purvey are 'truth'. That the lie can lead to truth, that life is just one long never ending masquarade.

Thank G-d for Torah and the Jewish people and their SANE philosophy.

My dad is Buddhist and Buddhism is NOT in any way the same thing as Freemasonry.

Im not against the idea that were actors in a divine drama. We are..But in a much deeper and meaningful way than hindus, buddhists or gnostics understand.

Each of us rectifies some aspect of reality. We incarnate wthin ourselves an attribute of the spiritual creation and we bring about its rectification.

Thus, Abrahm embodied the archetype of loving kindness, Isaac FEAR (a figure ignored in aleister crowleys Qabbalistic system - wonder why...) and Jacob harmony. DAvid embodied kingship, Joseph self restraint in the world, etc. Each person and character in the Torah, and indeed, in all existence, has a meaningul purpose.

What that is is for us to determine.

This contrasts greatly with the Eyes wide shut type crap..

Originally posted by dontreally
Well i do know this is whats taught.

I am not following you here, you know what is taught? What you said in your first post or the response I attached below?

The Torah is above the core of all mystical wisdom. Other traditions are speculative; the Torah is directly given from the creator of the universe to Man; MoSheH, which happens to be HaSheM backwards.

I know Samuel Aen Weor; satanist, mason, etc,

I could not find anywhere that he was a Mason. Can you direct me to where you located this fact?



[edit on 5-7-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by HarmonicNights
My dad is Buddhist and Buddhism is NOT in any way the same thing as Freemasonry.

Buddhism is very complicated. Some forms of buddhism are very good and i support them. Others tolerate a very negative and antinomian religious philosopy. Buddhists on the whole are antinomian, and they believe one may go in whatever direction his higherself drives him. If he seeks perfection (moral perfection) than hes on the proper path; although perfection is a never ending process. However, some seek completion. This is what the concept of christ, al khadir, and individuation in jungian psychology symbolizes. This where you integrate into your personality the full array of spiritual experience. From evil - called by Jung the shadow of ones personality, and the superego, which establishes values and ethics. So, gnosticism and thus christianity and their replacement theology is really all about the combining Jewish and pagan values. Even though todays elite seem interested in completely casting off the Jewish values and going full blown pagan as was platos dream (to remake the world in mans image).

Buddhism is one of those, its good, but elements within it are bad spiritual traditions. Similar to christianity, islam, etc.

Overall though i like buddhism. I read into it sometines,. I know a woman whos a devout buddhist and shes been a very positive and helpful presence in my life. Such a woman truly has the spirit of the living G-d in her.

My issues is just with these manichean type moral dualism philosophies. Which freemasonry and their status obessed traditions are all about.

Originally posted by dontreally
My issues is just with these manichean type moral dualism philosophies. Which freemasonry and their status obessed traditions are all about.

The traditions in Masonry, namely the rituals, are to teach moral and spiritual lessons and have nothing to do with status or rank.

I study kabbalah ie; Judaisms mystical dimension from orthodox Jewish sources. Qabbalah with a Q is a hermetic/gnostic hybrid and i imagine christian cabbalah is the same.

The gnostic philosophy is the philosophy of the Nachash (snake) of Genesis. Isaac Luria notes that Cains sacrifice to G-d was an offering of Flax. Flax has two pods growing opposite each other on the same stock; thus alluding to gnosticism. In complete contradiction to Isaiahs statement "woe to you who add house to house and field to field, till there is no room for none but you, to dwell in the land". I think its clear to see what kind of philosophy Isaiah is referring to. The ancient contention is this. Those who believe theres no purpose to existence and the Jew, whos purpose is to be a vessel to convey knowledge of the name YHVH to mankind; that G-d directly relates to man when man seeks him through prayer. Simple; but to sophisticates its demeaning (even though were talking about G-d here; your opinion is clearly wrong and misguided)

Also, i recall reading once that he was a mason in Mexico.

But regardless even the Oto founder Carl Kellner said this about masonry

"Our order possesses the key which opens up all Masonic and Hermetic secrets, namely, the teachings of sexual magic, and this teaching explains, without exception, all the secrets of Freemasonry and all systems of religion

[edit on 5-7-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by dontreally
My issues is just with these manichean type moral dualism philosophies. Which freemasonry and their status obessed traditions are all about.

The traditions in Masonry, namely the rituals, are to teach moral and spiritual lessons and have nothing to do with status or rank.

Are you serious? Just look over the names of the different grades and its evidently clear that masonry deifies rank and level. This is probably one of the allures of the 'transformation' from what a mason would call a 'brute' to a god incarnate; christ in the flesh.

Ive read Pikes morals and dogma and its clear Masonry is based primarely on pagan/hellenistic philosophy. Their welcoming other religions just means all man made religions share this 'perenial philosophy' as huxley put it. Only Judaism and Torah differs from them. Hence the ancient maxim "the Jewish people are a nation apart" and even the great mystic - balaam, propechy in numbers 23 says this of the Jewish people "i see a people that dwells apart, not reckoned among the nations"

And so history has proven.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by dontreally
Also, i recall reading once that he was a mason in Mexico.

You may have read it but I can not seem to locate this anywhere. Maybe you can find where you read this and post the details.

But regardless even the Oto founder Carl Kellner said this about masonry

Kellner was giving his opinion on what he thought Ordo Templi Orientis was in relation to other groups in which he participated. I never took any type of sex magic lesson out of the degree rituals that I was invloved with and now, as an officer, help perform.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by HarmonicNights
My dad is Buddhist and Buddhism is NOT in any way the same thing as Freemasonry.

Being a Mason, I can confirm that Masonry is not very Buddhist like. There tends to be a lot of retired military guys telling WWII stories. Karma... not so much