Originally posted by subz
I've never been called an anti-muslim because I denounce Hezbollah's attacks on Israeli civilians. But I have been called anti-semitic when I say
Israel has no right to kill Palestinians or occupy their land.
I completely understand your frustration. It is not right to label anyone with names simply because of a difference in opinion. Unfortunately when
Israel was formed, the British had control of Palestine. As unjust as it may seem, they had the 'legal' right (though I acknowledge that some
settlements were formed illegaly) to do with that land whatever they wanted. They chose to give it to the Jews, who chose to return to
Palestine,....their ancestral home. This, of course gives no one the right to kill anyone, but legaly speaking,... most Jews had a 'legal' right to
that land as much as the Palestinians.
I just realized something. Posters are criticizing either Hezbollah (a group of people) or Israel (an entire country, which is clearly mostly
populated by Jews). Maybe that is why some posters heat up over this issue. While some blame a particular group of Muslims (as opposed to all
Muslims), others seem to blame an entire nation of people for what is happening. Does that make sense? I think we all know that not all Jews living in
Israel dislike/don't sympathize with the Palestinians, just as not all Muslims dislike/don't sympathize with Israeli Jews. Maybe we should be more
clear about who we criticize? In example,.. IDF, Olmert, Extremist Zionists, etc. etc. Just an idea.
I stand by my accusations against Israel and its war crimes. They are well documented. But as you acknowledge this is a thread directed at
people who criticize Israel being fobbed off as simply anti-semitic. There are plenty of threads regarding crimes committed by Hezbollah and
I don't doubt that Israel's Government is responsible for war crimes. I acknowledge that it is a member among many nations who have comitted
terrible crimes against their perceived enemies. Again, I agree that there are plenty of threads about the evils of Hezbollah and Hamas.
This is the first thing I disagree with you on. The conflict goes back to 1947 and the formation of a Jewish state on land already belonging to
Palestinian Arabs........ Up until the 1940's the small percentage of Jews who lived in Palestine cohabitated with the Arabs peacefully.
I have to admitt, there are more twists and turns in this damned conflict than there are in a bowl of spaghetti. Here is a good summary to illustrate
my point:Wikipedia: History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Frankly it looks like Britain could be blamed for igniting this stick of dynamite in 1880. Of course many Jewish settlers and many extremist Muslims
could be blamed for allowing this to continue. I can't side with one and not the other. As I've said before, everyone is to blame, and everyone has
blood on their hands.
This is an informative website as well:
In a Nutshell: Israeli Palestinian Conflict
Well since public opinion in the West strongly favours Israel I would stand by my claim to be in the minority
Until a poll is conducted, I obviously can't claim one way or the other with any certainty.
From observations,... while the highly Christian
populations around the world would side with Israel for religious reasons, the world is a big place, and aside from the U.S. I don't see any other
nation claiming to stand behind Israel. So, while questioning Israel places you into the minority within the U.S., in the context of the whole world,
your opinion of Israel is shared by a major part of the world in my opinion. That's not to be taken as absolute fact, I'm just basing it on what I
hear and read.
That is my stance in a nut shell. I am against civilian casualties on both sides. Period.
I understand the differences here. Hitler was a threat to the Europe and the World. The same cannot be said for the Palestinian people. They are not
even a threat to the Israeli state.....The violence aimed at Israel is a product of the Israeli illegal occupation of Palestine. Therefore claiming
Israel's struggle against Palestinians is akin to the struggle against Hitler is arse-about logic.
I didn't mean to imply that Palestinians are a threat to the world, and certainly didn't mean to compare them to Hitler. I only used WW II. as an
example for the casualties suffered by all sides due to war, that's all. There was a reason to go to war, we bombed enemy targets, and
unintentionally bombed civilians in the process. It wasn't 'right', but war is ugly, and war causes death on all sides,...wanted or unwanted. The
example was only to show that in every war (just or unjust) we will have civilian casualties. Technology today is much better than during WW II. but
it is far from perfect. Most times it is impossible to avoid any civilian casualties. Whether or not the IDF is doing their best to do so can't be
determined by any of us who aren't there to see it first-hand.
The Palestinians are resisting an illegal occupation and the Israelis are illegally occupying and slowly ethnically cleansing Palestine of its
That is a debatable subject with many sides to consider. Not all Jews would like to see Muslims die, and not all Muslims would like to see Jews die.
Some occupy the land legally, and some occupy it illegally. Is every Israeli responsible for what the IDF or it's government does? Not unless you
want to blame all Americans for what present and past U.S. administrations have done across the world. There are extremists on both sides who keep
this conflict going. The rest of the Israeli and Palestinan people just wish to live in peace with each other.
You've shown yourself to be very knowledgable and Worldly. Can I ask you to view the video I have linked to in my signature? It is very informative
and will give you some insight into why Israel is faced with the violence it currently does.
Thank you for the compliment, though I'm not sure I deserve it.
I can't view the video at this time (terribly slow connection), but I will once I
get home. I will send you a 'U2U' to give you my thoughts on it tomorrow.