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1904 British Enfield

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posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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The Ross Rifle.

NEVER BUY ONE OF THESE. THE BOLTS DO NOT ALWAYS SEAT PROPERLY, as many shooters found out during their last breath.

The Bolts had a nasty habit of coming back at you and embedding into the shooter's skull.


Now come on...

Let's not malign a good gun (which happens to hold a special place in my family history) simply because it endangered careless shooters who couldn't be bothered to assemble it properly after cleaning. If we idiot-proofed every tool, I'd be cutting my steak with a potato right now, for lack of a sharp knife. And no, the gun wasn't at all suited to battlefield conditions, it was a match rifle.

I know everyone loves to poo-poo the Ross rifle, but they're really not bad guns. Just not the right gun for rolling around in the mud. If you've got one in good working condition, and you don't throw it together wrong after cleaning, they are very accurate. It was also an innovative design, with the laudible goal of cutting down reload times.



en.wikipedia.org...

Snipers, who were able to keep their weapons clean, maintained an affinity for the weapon, however.


I'm done. Carry on.




posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 06:52 PM
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from Retseh:
The Mujahideen were still using Martini Henrys in the original caliber well into the 1980s. They claimed it was the only rifle round capable of cracking the rotor head on Russian helicopters.



Not sure if I'm talking about the same rifle, but I think so.
From what I understand, the soft lead ball/bullet would hit the tail rotor blade if the shooter was lucky, quite a bit of the lead would stick which lead to a rotor imbalance condition requiring the copter be landed soon as possible.

Once the copter was down the Russian troops in the copter were back to ground fighting.



from Retseh:
Desert Dawg - Good to see a fellow Valley dweller, ever do any desert shooting? I'm still trying to find that perfect location.


Yesterday as a matter of fact.
We shoot on a N/W Arizona dry lake inside a dry dirt stock tank with high banked dirt surrounding it.
The dry lake is 2 x 4 miles near as we can figure.
Optimum safety for everyone.

Here's a couple of pics.
A whole lot of nothing as you can see.

And my pal's other shooting hobby.
Bowling ball cannons charged with 1/4# of black powder shoots bowling balls about a half mile.
The lake surface is soft enough that the bowling balls aren't damaged and are used again.
The surface is also hard enough to support vehicles with no problems.
When the rains come though....







posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Now come on...

Let's not malign a good gun (which happens to hold a special place in my family history) simply because it endangered careless shooters who couldn't be bothered to assemble it properly after cleaning. If we idiot-proofed every tool, I'd be cutting my steak with a potato right now, for lack of a sharp knife. And no, the gun wasn't at all suited to battlefield conditions, it was a match rifle.


Excuse me but Careless Shooters who couldn't be bothered to assemble the Ross properly after cleaning is no way to describe the Canadian Forces Personel who where given this tool to engage the enemy with in the Europa.

Our Men and Women of the Forces are some of the most respected on this Globe, so take that back, and apologize to the next Canadian Vet you happen to meet.


And incase it was lost to you when you reviewed the Link, the Government in Canada chose this as our Weapon dujour for the forces. Rather than using some tried and tested equipment, they opted to line the pockets of some friends of the Political Party in Power.

It was not enough, that our men and women where sent to STAND for freedom, but they had to do it with a Ross Rifle. Maybe this is part of the not so glowing endorsement I offered earlier and I am demeaning the Ross due to the Political Mess that surrounded it.

I did note, it was a good rifle for accuracy, but as you noted again, with was not a trench tool.

If you need a trench Tool, choose something else, which is far safer.

If you are going to dedicate your life to the proper maintenance, and use it in pristine contidtions, then a Roos Rifle would make a very good choice.

And since I did not note this previously, I have a Ross Rifle.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Not to sully the questionable American Plastic God, but the Ross rifle sounds a hell of a lot like a bolt-action AR15. Great for plinking, and if you have a lifetime to dedicated to cleaning your rifle...but not something you're going to want to use in combat.

DE



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 10:09 AM
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Desert Dawg - Awesome location - looks like the view from my back yard (I'm out in Ahwatukee) and overlook the Indian reservation.

Any chance you could clue me in on the location, is it easily accessible etc.

As I live in the south of the city I have been looking around Casa Grande, but as I don't have a 4x4 my options are somewhat restricted. I did find one good spot out in Tonto National Forest but access was tricky.

A nice quiet easily accessible spot would be a Godsend. I should really have U2Ud this, I fear we're hijacking the thread.

PS - what are you totin' in that crossdraw.

[edit on 11-8-2006 by Retseh]



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Retseh
Desert Dawg - Awesome location - looks like the view from my back yard (I'm out in Ahwatukee) and overlook the Indian reservation.

Any chance you could clue me in on the location, is it easily accessible etc.

As I live in the south of the city I have been looking around Casa Grande, but as I don't have a 4x4 my options are somewhat restricted. I did find one good spot out in Tonto National Forest but access was tricky.

A nice quiet easily accessible spot would be a Godsend. I should really have U2Ud this, I fear we're hijacking the thread.

PS - what are you totin' in that crossdraw.

[edit on 11-8-2006 by Retseh]



I don't think we're highjacking the thread.
Conversations tend to wander a bit and the Enfield guys need a place to shoot too.


4x4 not required to access or travel on the dry lake.
Pickups do fine and most times a passenger car would be no problem.

You just have to think about when the last rains were cuz the road in can have some damp crossings.
And for sure you want to stay off the lake after a couple days rain . . . the 4x4 guys get seriously stuck out there sometimes.

It looks like you're too far away for a days shooting.
The lake is Red Lake.
It's west of the Western Grand Canyon and north of Kingman, Arizona - 'bout 20 miles.

You do need to let someone know you're going out there cuz it's a dead air spot for most cell phones.
Although the main road is about a two mile hike up an easy to moderate grade and you could walk up to the road for help if need be.

The gun in the cross-draw holster is a Ruger new model Super Blackhawk in 44 magnum.
Fun gun to shoot.

I finally got a Bianchi Lawman style holster for it and like that a lot better.
The crossdraw has it's advantages though.
They stay out of the way of whatever rifle you're toting in.

(We used to have to walk in a couple of miles for varmint shooting when I lived in Sunny Southern California and taking along a 22 rimfire revolver for snakes and the like was convenient. N/W Arizona where I know live has a higher density of snakes. Seems to be the country and climate they really like. We carry handguns when we venture into their territory, but have yet to shoot one. If they're minding their business we leave em alone. Ended up standing next to one, one time. That was a touch spooky. Shooting them would be a last resort kinda thing. I carry an Estwing rock scoop/snake holder downer/walking stick kinda thing most times. Better to use that to pick up an interesting rock or turquoise specimen than reach down into a rocky area in a dry stream bed. The snakes - as you probably know aren't that much of a problem. I'm just an old Boy Scout and do the "Be Prepared" bit.)

We were on the lake shooting last Tuesday.
My pal set up his collection of 22 rimfire silhouette targets - ram, turkey, pig & chicken made from 1/4" steel.
They were at about the proper distance for 22 rifle shooting.
He laughed and asked if I could hit the ram which was about 80-90 yards from where I was standing.
One shot knocked it for a loop and my pal - and I - were a bit surprised.
I'll be the first to admit there was a bit of luck with the shot.
And my pal's formerly pristine ram with only a handful of 22 rimfire lead splotches on it now has a 44 caliber dent in it.
The 44 bullet - 240 grain jacketed solid point speeding along at 1100 fps which is a somewhat mild load - almost went through the 1/4" steel.

It'll make for a good story at the next BBQ....



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 12:34 PM
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Good story and the description of the dry lake. Sounds like a nice spot...very nice.

Conditions allowing ..rain and such sounds like a great place to spend the day. No where with that kind of distance handy and available to the public here on the east coast.
Understand about the dead spot for cell phones. My ham radio rig with the multiple bands would cover this gap just fine.

Also about the snakes. Well done. My philosophy too. They dont bother you ..you dont bother them. They are mostly just doing what snakes do. We are in their territory so to speak.
Also great on your snake handling gadget.

Thanks for a great post and pictures,

Orangetom



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Good story and the description of the dry lake. Sounds like a nice spot...very nice.

Conditions allowing ..rain and such sounds like a great place to spend the day. No where with that kind of distance handy and available to the public here on the east coast.
Understand about the dead spot for cell phones. My ham radio rig with the multiple bands would cover this gap just fine.

Also about the snakes. Well done. My philosophy too. They dont bother you ..you dont bother them. They are mostly just doing what snakes do. We are in their territory so to speak.
Also great on your snake handling gadget.

Thanks for a great post and pictures,

Orangetom



Thanks for the nice comment.

Bad part about the Estwing rock scoop gadget is they quit making them.
There are still some to be found in older hardware stores, but they are disappearing.
The Estwing rock hammer shown in my avatar and belt holster for same should be available for quite a while.
Other nice part about the rock scoop is that it's a back saver if you're looking at a lot of specimens . . . which I do since I'm such an amatur at the rockhound biz.

A few more pics and I'll shut up.

Look close and you'll see the last pig in the group skedaddling out of the area.



My pal and I do a lot of Jeep exploring around here.
There is a lot of history, old mines - which we do not enter - and even some ghost towns.

The pic was taken on the back side (east) of the Hualapai Mountians overlooking Kingman.
We got into a canyon and found three big ol pigs watering at the little stream below the main summit.
Probably a good place to hunt pigs, but all I want to shoot them with is a camera.
Not because I'm against hunting, just that I don't want to get involved with all the work to take care of them properly as per cleaning etc.
Wasted meat from a game animal is a sin in my book.

Anyway, we took the Jeep trail - in a completely stock, street style tires Jeep Wrangler - up to the top of the mountain and had a nice lunch at the Hualapai Inn at the summit.
Cool restaurant and elk show up for day old bread loaf handouts outside the restaurants big bay window out back.
Makes for a decidedly different dinner hour.
Females and calves only, the bulls stay in the woods.

The trail up the mountain was kind of a tough one and we really had no business traversing it on our own.
Sometimes my pal gets a little carried away and I'm dumb enough to go along for the ride.


Even so, we carry lots of water and a few emergency provisions if we had to stay overnight.


The below pic shows why I mind so well.



And one last one showing another of our interests.
This one shot on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway - Hwy 101) a couple of years back.
We're just opposite Mugu Naval Air Weapons Station north of Malibu.




posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Desert Dawg

Great posts and a very pretty girl - you must be proud.

Thanks so much for the location information, I've already marked it on the map. You're right about the distance issue, but I do get up that way occasionally, and look forward to scouting it out.

May all your .44Mags find the 10 ring......



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 06:13 PM
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As previously posted by others, I believe the rifle you acquired was the Rifle, No1 MkIII. You are a very lucky gentleman to own such a weapon.

My uncle Les who fought in the First World War, told me several tales of how the Lee-Enfield scoured the battlefield. He was at the 1st Battle of Mons where the English infantry were crouching behind a low wall and, as the Huns approached, the infantry knelt up and poured a withering hail of lead into their unprotected flanks.

Within a few short minutes, the English infantryman had decimated a German battalion, then advanced to finsh off the survivors with cold Sheffield steel.

I was originally trained to use this rifle in 1967 prior to joining the Royal Air Force and my unit still had the No 4 until 1970, when we were eventually issed with FN SLR's and FN FAL's.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 01:31 AM
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As I recall the .303 Enfield rifle has a very fast bolt action response time compared to say ..a Mauser. Something about the design of the bolt.

That is the rifle I would like to own ..outside of the posted Enfield bolt action in .308 caliber. The .308 just seems to me to be better suited in such a long gun.
I am refering also to the FN/FAL rifle...which was in use before the SA80s or the Bullpup designs in use today. The FN/FAL..I think sometimes it is refered to as the FN/LAR rifle just seems like it would be a good long range shooter in capable hands. You dont see many of them here in this neighborhood I believe due to costs. When I was looking into them they were very high in price. I can afford one now days but I am pretty much rifled out.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999

As I recall the .303 Enfield rifle has a very fast bolt action response time compared to say ..a Mauser. Something about the design of the bolt.


I believe it was the positioning of the locking lugs, if I recall correctly they were at the rear of the bolt and this facilitated faster unlocking, but I'm not sure on this one.

British soldiers were capable of such rapid volleys that small groups of soldiers were sometimes mistaken by the Germans for a machine gun position - or at least that's the popular folklore of the time.

The rate of fire and high level of accuracy demonstrated by the Enfields made them an excellent weapon. The later (WWII) Jungle Carbine version was a great idea that didn't work out so well in practice. The weapon had a wandering zero that was never fully corrected (the cause was eventually traced back to lightening cuts that had been made in the receiver) and the recoil of the .303 cartridge was less than pleasant in such a relatively light gun.

The good news is that the large numbers of Enfields in good condition that are continually circulating in the used market should ensure that they will continue to live on in private collections for many years to come, and with .303 ammo costing anywhere up to a buck a pop, I doubt the barrels will be shot out anytime soon



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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Just as a small side note on the Enfield 303 cartridge.

I read several times in the past that reloaders/gun magazine writers pulled the bullet from a 303 and took note of the long sticks of cordite within the case.

Invariably they'd dump the cordite, weigh it for whatever reason and when they tried to put the cordite back in they couldn't get it all back in the case.

Turned out to be one of those rural legend type mysteries within the gun world.

In the end, a British gentleman wrote one of the gun mags explaining things.

The cartridge manufacturer put the long sticks of cordite in before the brass was necked down to the size required for the 303 bullet.

A simple answer that had eluded more than a few experienced people....



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 01:13 PM
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Thanks for the update on the Enfield bolts. Its been awhile since I read the tales in my reloading magazines. I like very much to read the magazines Rifle and Rifles Handloader. The scenerio you describe is pretty much what I recall from the articles. With that design on the bolt I dont believe it would matter what the calibration of the cartridge is..It would still be fast though myself I would prefer it in .308.

Desert Dawg...I dont believe I have ever handled cordite type ammunition or perhapsed I should say I have never unloaded any to look inside the cases. I mostly use IMR type powders in my reloads. It would definitely be intresting to look inside an olde cartridge like that. I suspect one of those type cartridges has been sitting in warehouses for some time.

Thanks for the updates gentlemen,
Keem them in the X ring,

Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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You bloody Yanks........................at it again!

God, I hate you lote sometimes.

Lots of empty spaces to get yer cannons out and have a blast!


Even more empty places along highways to offload a few .44 Mag rounds!


What have we got in the bloody UK?


Sod all!



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Desert Dawg
And one last one showing another of our interests.
This one shot on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway - Hwy 101) a couple of years back.
We're just opposite Mugu Naval Air Weapons Station north of Malibu.




The Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) or Highway 1 is not the same as the Ventura Freeway or more commonly known as "The 101." The PCH goes directly through Malibu winding along the coastline, and is undivided; the 101 is a multilane divided highway that is inland. That is what appears in the above photograph, and appears to be in the vicinity of Camarillo (which is the same as being North of Pt. Mugu NAWS).

Malibu map.

Malibu Monkeys, not just for being Mel Gibson's designated driver anymore...

[edit on 14/8/2006 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by fritz
You bloody Yanks........................at it again!

God, I hate you lote sometimes.

Lots of empty spaces to get yer cannons out and have a blast!


Even more empty places along highways to offload a few .44 Mag rounds!


What have we got in the bloody UK?


Sod all!



Yeah, America is a big country.
Folks don't appreciate it sometimes.
At least not until they start traveling cross country.

Seems like a whole lot of nothing sometimes, but if you take the time to investigate there's a lot of history to be seen.

I live a half mile from world famous Route 66.
Known as the Mother Road to most.
It starts in Chicago and ends at the Santa Monica pier on the west coast.

I am most appreciative that we do have places to shoot here in Sunny Arizona.
But I suspect that you know that already.


Just for the heck of it, here's a few more sunny Arizona photos.
The one with the two Jeeps is north of the dry lake.





Here's one of some murals near a partially occupied ghost town.
If I can find the rest of the pics of these, I'll try to put together a short article on them and post it in a few days.




Living around here, you have to work at being bored....



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
And one last one showing another of our interests.
This one shot on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway - Hwy 101) a couple of years back.
We're just opposite Mugu Naval Air Weapons Station north of Malibu.




The Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) or Highway 1 is not the same as the Ventura Freeway or more commonly known as "The 101." The PCH goes directly through Malibu winding along the coastline, and is undivided; the 101 is a multilane divided highway that is inland. That is what appears in the above photograph, and appears to be in the vicinity of Camarillo (which is the same as being North of Pt. Mugu NAWS).

Malibu map.

Malibu Monkeys, not just for being Mel Gibson's designated driver anymore...

[edit on 14/8/2006 by Mirthful Me]



Mirthful Me is correct on the highway designations.

101 rolled off the keyboard and it should have been Hwy 1.
I should have known better since I grew up in the area.

However, Hwy 1 is a divided four laner for a ways south of Oxnard.

The picture was taken south of Oxnard and definitely opposite the Point Mugu Naval Weapons Air Station.

Not too far down the highway from the photo location (going south), the road swings to the right, cuts down to an undivided four laner, passes Mugu rock in a mile or two and goes into Santa Monica as an undivided four laner.


This picture was taken near Camarillo State Hospital which is now a school.


Point Mugu is a bit to the right of the photo and over the ridge.

And just for fun, here we are at the locally famous Mugu Rock parking lot.
Mugu Rock proper is just to the right and the rock is just down the coast from the Naval Station.




Mugu Rock was an easily recognized landmark seen by many a returning Vietnam Vet on their way home.
Most times when flying into March AFB a little way out of San Bernardino, California.



Just so the Enfield guys won't feel shut out, you'll have to come to Sunny Arizona and do some shooting.
Summer's hot, but start early and it can be a good day.

Albeit ending at noon or so....



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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The Turkish units used the British .303 in Korea. I had to pass a number of their check-points on my tour, and I don't know what looked more fearsome, the long barreled British .303 with bayonet attached (combined it was well over five feet) or the bearded guards wearing the wool OD's in the Summer.

bc
.\



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by beforebc
The Turkish units used the British .303 in Korea. I had to pass a number of their check-points on my tour, and I don't know what looked more fearsome, the long barreled British .303 with bayonet attached (combined it was well over five feet) or the bearded guards wearing the wool OD's in the Summer.

bc
.\


Yeah, I must admit that when I first started teaching knife and bayonet fighting to my Squadron, (we had FN SLRs) my mind often drifted back to WWI and the pictures of Tommy Atkins with his No 1 Mk III and Sword Bayonet. An awesome sight.

For some reason, the heirarchy did away with the sword bayno and introduced the pig sticker for WWII. It meant that the enemy were a lot closer.

With the FN SLR, you had a smaller fighting knife but at least it was on the end of a BIG rifle and that kept the enemy at arms length and you could fight with the bayno.

Nowadays, you have this pathetic Mattel plastic toy, SA80a2, half the size of the SLR, with a slightly bigger fighting knife/tin & bottle opener/barbed wire cutter/saw thingy but to let the enemy get that close, is far too close.

Thank God I'm out and don't have to teach kids to fight with that! One good hard whack from another rifle and I swear, the bloody thing would fall to pieces.

Wanders off...................glint in the eye..................longing for saw-backed sword bayonets on the end of proper rifles.



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