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the U.S economy is set up for a COLLAPSE soon

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posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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www.counterpunch.org...

the following is an exerpt from the above mentioned link

Cheney has socked away more than $25 million. While the figures may be estimates, the investments are not. According to Tom Blackburn of the Palm Beach Post, Cheney has invested heavily in "a fund that specializes in short-term municipal bonds, a tax-exempt money market fund and an inflation protected securities fund. The first two hold up if interest rates rise with inflation. The third is protected against inflation."

Cheney has dumped another (estimated) $10 to $25 million in a European bond fund which tells us that he is counting on a steadily weakening dollar. So, while working class Americans are loosing ground to inflation and rising energy costs, Darth Cheney will be enhancing his wealth in "Old Europe". As Blackburn sagely notes, "Not all bad news' is bad for everybody."

inflation is gonna be going up up and away

the economy is slowng

the real estate market is slowing

slowing economy rising inflation= no probem?

i guess that is why bill gates and warren buffet pulled half of there forturnes out of the u.s

the collapse of the economy is a p r o c e s s and we are at the begining actually i beleive the international monetary system will fail and the credit system will be revealed as a fraud.




posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
www.counterpunch.org...

the following is an exerpt from the above mentioned link

Cheney has socked away more than $25 million. While the figures may be estimates, the investments are not. According to Tom Blackburn of the Palm Beach Post, Cheney has invested heavily in "a fund that specializes in short-term municipal bonds, a tax-exempt money market fund and an inflation protected securities fund. The first two hold up if interest rates rise with inflation. The third is protected against inflation."

Cheney has dumped another (estimated) $10 to $25 million in a European bond fund which tells us that he is counting on a steadily weakening dollar. So, while working class Americans are loosing ground to inflation and rising energy costs, Darth Cheney will be enhancing his wealth in "Old Europe". As Blackburn sagely notes, "Not all bad news' is bad for everybody."

inflation is gonna be going up up and away

the economy is slowng

the real estate market is slowing

slowing economy rising inflation= no probem?

i guess that is why bill gates and warren buffet pulled half of there forturnes out of the u.s

the collapse of the economy is a p r o c e s s and we are at the begining actually i beleive the international monetary system will fail and the credit system will be revealed as a fraud.



You can “beleive” any damn thing you want. However, base upon what you written, it doesn't seem that facts or evidence play much of role in what beliefs you'll sign on to. What's your position on the Tooth Fairy?

So Cheney put some of his money in a bond fund to protect him from inflation; so what? The fed is raising rates to retrain a robustly growing economy, and that makes bond returns closer to equities. I've done the same thing, it's called smart investing.

It's a funny world and anything can happen, but base upon the available data, America is doing fine and far better than her competitors.

Regarding the great depression: However, America survived that (despite FDR's commi crap) and thrived.

Yes it happened and it can happen again (though very unlikely) but there just nothing on the horizon that would indicate that. If can post some data to that effect, (rather than your uninformed opinion) I'd be interest in seeing it. All the DATA I've posted shows America is doing just fine.

Bill Gates had reduce his exposure in dollars? So what? He also was responsible for MS Bob. However, given that interest rates are so low here, it make sense to hedge your bet. Soros lost a bunch betting against the dollar last summer. Markets are tough to predict.

"Real estate maket slowing" Again, so what? America's have FIVE YEARS of unprecedented growth in housing values and it's now leveling off, what's so bad about that?

So, despite a stock market crash, corporate scandals, terrorist attacks, two wars, devastating hurricanes and oil shocks in the last five years, AMERICA HAS THE BEST PERFORMING INDUSTRIAL ECONOMY ON EARTH.

Look you hate America and want her to fail. That's fine, the winners of the world have always engender hate and jealousy and America is the greatest winner the world has ever witnessed. But if you want to argue economics, you might what to argue facts rather than just what you “beleive”

[edit on 8-8-2006 by Number23]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 01:30 PM
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number 23 i dont know u i don't mean to get u too excited.

i hate america? why cause i was born and raised here and i belevie the economy is going to fail anyway

u can use what ever ratio's u wish to try to paint a rosey picture of the economy, everyone knows u can use whatever ratio's u want ignoring trends.
but to quote member moon pie's response

"It may well be that US GDP is growing faster than the deficit, but you ignore several basic trends.

1 -- Demographically, the US is move in the same direction as Europe. In fact, the giant bubble of baby boomers will hit retirement age within the next five to ten years. And most of them have not saved for old age.

2 -- Demand for commmodities is growing outside of the US, and it takes a long time to bring new sources on line. So during the same period, you might expect sharp increases in materials costs.

3 -- GDP will only grow if there is continued increase in capacity to produce. Not only will many older workers opt out, but a double digit portion of American youth can not add, subtract, or read, much less do anything more involved. And much of the remainder can not do those very well. And poor work ethic is the rule among younger people. Who in the US will do the producing that will make the GDP rise? The people with no skills and crappy attitudes or the old people who are not working any more, but who are consuming resources?

4 -- And do not forget the ever-growing consumer debt. I suspect it is climbing much faster than the growth in GDP.

For those reasons alone, it would be good to reduce the national debt. If we do not, we will have a crisis that will likely result in one of two outcomes. One is a default on debt. The other is flat inflation. Neither would be much fun."

the u.s govt is spending heavily and carelessly on militiary and can't even pay for there own soldiers who are injured in the war, the spending is going to increase the debt is going up, inflation is around the corner and i still love america i hate this puppet gov't setting us up time and time again not giving two #s about u and me and then everyone still thinking a economic crisis is "unlikely"

[edit on 8-8-2006 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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The IMF is the biggest scam on Earth and it is going to collapse, in fact it already has begun. South America have paid off all their IMF loans and refuse to borrow anymore, the people of Bolivia have over thrown the Gov't three times in 10 years, everytime the IMF comes in they kick out their agents. The IMF controls almost the entire world through DEBT. It controls the US as well as Canada, Australia, UK, Russia, France, The Continet of Africa, Dubai, Oman, Yemen, pretty much every country except the AXIS of Evil. America doesn't have enough resources to re-invade all the rebelling countries. The IMF is defaulting on payments, the IMF controls the FEDERAL RESERVE because it is a product of the world bankers.
It isn't just America that is about to collapse it is the entire world.
Get gold, silver, lead (bullets), whiskey, cigarettes, & chocolate. To barter cause their won't be fuel to truck goods & ship across oceans.
Most of all get land in FEE SIMPLE with ALLOIDAL claim.
This is being planned to undermine all gov'ts to replace with world gov't.
Either prepare or take the mark. BEWARE of GOV'T bearing gifts.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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this is a possible reality that many are not willing to contemplate

i can't imagine having a family and going thru these thought processes because i don't blame anyone for shooting the messenger, this must seem like such a risk for people to make preparations, especially since most people are conditioned to follow the popular trends at least within there respected intrests, not many will make a move until it is too late



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
this is a possible reality that many are not willing to contemplate

i can't imagine having a family and going thru these thought processes because i don't blame anyone for shooting the messenger, this must seem like such a risk for people to make preparations, especially since most people are conditioned to follow the popular trends at least within there respected intrests, not many will make a move until it is too late


Again all you can muster is your own ignorant opinion that's fraught with grammar and spelling errors. When you can offer some verifiable economic data (like I have), let me know.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by Number23]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:47 AM
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yeah, the ole' you hate america..... I love it when people use that argument.

If you think your home alarm system will work during a power outage-
and your smith & wesson will stave off the starving
and the public security will come to your rescue-

welcome to 3rd world america
do not pass go, do not collect 200 pesos.

This depression won't be like the last- back then people were much more civil.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 12:46 PM
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Does anyone ever search ATS before they post? There are only about a million of these threads saying the US ecomony is going to crash any day now. I would say on average there is probably one of these posts every month from a fairly new ATS member. People have been saying the US ecomony or stock market is going to fail since the 1970's and the stock market did crash in 1987 and that didn't exactly destroy the country. And of course people like to shout out how big the national debt is when the number itself is basically meaningless. the percentage of GDP is the important number and the USA is in good shape with its GDP. All markets are going to go through bear and bull periods (downtrend and uptrend). It doesn't mean the sky is falling.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by zerotime]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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Ok, even IF this did happen, it would only be hard for a little while. Seriously, give the American people, all people for that matter, some credit. You make it out to sound like the economy has a mind of its own and is the most important thing in life. Quit freakin out. You make people out to sound like weak unthinking robots. People will always need things. If the dollar is not worth anything, then they will find a way around it. We adjust. Yea the economy is scaring people right now. Give it about 6 months a year at the most, and people will calm down, adjust, and go back to business as usuall.


df1

posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by accountability
This depression won't be like the last- back then people were much more civil.

I agree it wont be like the last.

It has been my experience that folks that lived and grew up in depression era america were a tougher breed of people than those of today. As a response to the stock market crash of 1929 some bankrupt investors jumped to their deaths from the windows of buildings, but for the post part the people sucked it up and went on. I do not think the current generation is as tough as the generation that lived in the last depression so my expectation is that a substantial percentage of todays citizens would just roll over and die were their comfortable lifestyle to be taken away. Imho those which survive will acquire the virtue of humility and from that will come civility.

I also agree that the demise of the US economy has been predicted many times and it has not happened. Imho the previously predicted failures were held off by putting economic band-aides on the problems which fixxed things in the short term, but did not correct the underlaying problems. Perhaps the-powers-that-be will put another short term bandage on the economy, but eventually I expect that they will run out patches to accomplish another repair.

I do not agree that new monthly threads on this subject are inappropriate. The economy is in a constant state of change, so the discussion changes focus and this makes new threads on the US economy desireable.
.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by df1]



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:03 PM
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number 23 is a LOCKEED MARTIN employee, (or was) is it really a surprise he is talking like an arrogant narrow minded person who is probably blindly beleives anything bush says and that anyone who doesn't support his opinion either hates america or is ignorant or what else maybe a "terrorist" too?

u can have your views and i can have mine, but you need to get off your pedestal but when u do careful everyone will see you are as weak as the "truth" your statistics "proove"



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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Exactly cpdaman, we do have our own opinions. People don't like it though when about 3-4 posts per month are stating how the US will crash and burn and even say it will become a third world country. Especially when there are statistics to prove people wrong. Do you think the other people from other countries here would appreciate that? They wouldn't. Just look at the "Will the europeans ever be powerful thread". Tata.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 07:44 AM
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that is a good point, i love what my country is supposed to stand for it is a great quality to love your country


but you dont hate other countries so u can love yours more. the leaders in this country LIE to us, to push forward there agendas, they use peoples good qualities intentions (proud of america) and they with full knowledge of this quality, try to push there agenda in a twisted way to bolster "patriotism" they use words and phrases that have nothing to do with the actions or legislation they are attatched too, knowing anyone proud of america would never question the leaders, it would be to painful to imagine, however some "patriots" are figuring this out and they are getting the hell out of the militiary and they are seeing the lie only they are a little more pissed off to find out there lives were dangled out for a lie.

i want the u.s economy to be robust and i want to have a dependable 401k plan i assure you of that, but what is coming is probably going to be the opposite and the selfish that are in power, are in fact betting against our economy, knowing they will be fine (even prosper) and the biggest lie is that they give a care about you and me.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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Here are some scary articles about the upcoming collapse and America's comparison to Germany's Weimer Republic.
The Federal Reserve admits a recession is coming!
observer.guardian.co.uk...
America now versus Germany's Weimer Republic: SCARY
www.nowandfutures.com...
The odds of economic meltdown
www.berkeley.edu...
yikes:
www.americaneconomicalert.org...
America's Savings hoax:
custom.marketwatch.com...[EB09402A-4E13-4B5A-953F-A8669B9191C0]
Here comes hyperinflation:
www.financialsense.com...
U.S. is bankrupt:
www.telegraph.co.uk.../money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2006/07/14/ixcity.html
Ohio is sueing Fannie may:
www.mortgagenewsdaily.com...
Infaltionary bust inevitable:
www.moneyweek.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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All of this doom saying DEPENDS ENTIRELY on ASSUMPTIONS of future growth and productivity AND that (for some reason) America would have to pay her debt down to zero. That alone makes these dire predictions absurd. Huh?!! What?!! Yes that's right, it would be STUPID for the America to pay off her debt completely. Stupid people think Debt=BAD NO Debt=GOOD. Those people are destined to remain poor. That is because debt can be an INCOME MULTIPLIER.

For example, ten years ago I borrowed $165,000 to buy my house. I recently sold the place and profit from that sale (and some other investments) will allow me to spend the next several months sleeping in and lying by my pool in my new home in South Florida, before I need to look for a job. And again thanks to my assuming a 300% debt burden, I won't need much in the way of income, so I won't be working very hard.

In your ignorant world I would never have assumed a debt burden of nearly THREE TIMES my salary to buy the home and I'd be poorer for it. Fortunately, I am not possessed of such ignorance.

Well you can read more here about ignorant doom saying here:


The present value of future liabilities is $65.9 trillion, according to an article published by the St. Louis Fed a few weeks ago (“Is the USA Bankrupt?”).  USA Today, still terrified by USA tomorrow, picked up on the doomsday theme soon afterwards (“What's the real federal deficit?”). 
That’s okay. Turns out I found what I was looking for anyway: confirmation by the principals that their “present value of future liabilities” calculation leans heavily on the false assumption that future generations will have to find a way to rid themselves of their inherited Treasury securities; i.e., that they’ll need to find a way to reduce their debt-to-GDP ratio to zero percent.
...
Is the USA Bankrupt?  Here’s what others have had to say about that idea.
• The notion that the debt incurred by current generations has somehow to be paid off eventually by future generations is a confusing, or confused, effort to use a mathematical principle of solvency where it does not apply.... there is no reason why the federal debt cannot continue to be rolled over and continue to grow, at least with the nation’s growing income.
—Robert Eisner, The Misunderstood Economy, p. 126-7

• ...he sees the liabilities of the federal government growing. But he can't see the tens of trillions of dollars of new assets emerging from these new industries that have been generated and are now the spearheads of global economic growth.
—George Gilder (1996, reacting to Pete Peterson’s similar alarm bells about the liabilities side of the balance sheet)

• ...government cannot confine its scope to its own set of books, to its own receipts, expenditures, assets, and liabilities... The government must look at the impacts of its actions on the broader society, what economists call “externalities,” which cannot be easily reduced to bookkeeping entries. For example, federal spending to finance programs to reduce teenage smoking might well be more than repaid by reduction in the future costs of health care.
—Francis X. Cavanaugh, The Truth About the National Debt, p. 33

• Before the middle of this century, the growth rates of our technology... will be so steep as to appear essentially vertical. From a strictly mathematical perspective, the growth rates will still be finite but so extreme that the changes they bring about will appear to rupture the fabric of human history.
—Ray Kurzweil, The Singularity is Near, p.9 (Number23: Thanks to Moore's law and robotics are lives will be vastly different, better and much more prosperous in the next several decades)
www.optimist123.com...


But is seems the dolts of the world have ALLWAYS been loath to cast off the yoke of ignorance and flawed assumptions. So cling to you ZERO-SUM world if you must, but you'll be poorer for it.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Number23]



posted on Aug, 15 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Oh and "insiders" are "betting against" America. Geez... What stupidity and statistical cherry picking.

Let's see who is ACTUALLY buying America's debt


It seems that there are lots of folks who think US T Bills are a safe and smart investment so much so that they are only charging us about %5.

But I'm sure you guy know something these professional investors don't. It's a shame you have gotten around to posting it. But then again, Pokemon can be a real time suck.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Exactly cpdaman, we do have our own opinions. People don't like it though when about 3-4 posts per month are stating how the US will crash and burn and even say it will become a third world country. Especially when there are statistics to prove people wrong. Do you think the other people from other countries here would appreciate that? They wouldn't. Just look at the "Will the europeans ever be powerful thread". Tata.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]


If you haven't lived in an area in the US where there are 3rd world conditions, then you wouldn't believe it unless you see it. Statistics will prove whatever the person wants to prove. if you have a heart condition- you are free to move to another state.
Bird flu will probably migrate here from Canada or Mexico. Now how popular is cookfighting in Canada????
Disease, poor health services, poor mail delivery, poor choices at the supermarket, poor service PERIOD, more traffic problems, more pollution, more trash in the alley, more criminal activity, more stores that don't serve Americans and don't speak English. Sounds wonderful, the American Dream. Welcome to my neighborhood- where girl gangs rule and the tortilla and enchilada truck service bring you lunch and dinner with a constant tooting of the horn. Where people don't know what the law is, and break it on a regular basis. Where the power goes out every time it rains or the wind blows.

So commute to your job, and come home and push buttons to get into your gated neighborhood, and don't worry about someone siphoning your gas out of your vehicle, you've got it made. for now. The dow rises, then it falls. Gas prices drop, and then they rise. Inflation is based on what products and services this year?



posted on Oct, 21 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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Will the economy collapse? Yep, most likely. But none of us are going to see it coming. There are maybe a handful of people who'll be able to predict it, like the Fed and his staff, maybe a few others.

We had a similar debate over this before, regarding our economic system. The "Fiat" way of doing things is pretty complex, and another member explained it to me, but what it really boils down to is typing a new number into a computer somewhere. That's not gonna work forever.

Just hope for the best and prepare for the worst.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne


Unemployment is < 5%


Just because fewer than 5% of people in the country get unemployment assistance, does not mean than fewer than 5% of people in the country are unemployed.

People who cite the low unemployment numbers do so with an ulterior motive, or out of ignorance. If you count the long-term unemployed, those who are not eligible, and those who never applied, the figure is much, much larger.



I agree.
I'd wager that the majority of people don't realize that the governments "Unemployment Rate" figure doesn't take into account those workers still looking for work (i.e. Electrical Engineer who lost his job to outsourcing and after a year still cannot find anything NEAR an equivalent job) and those workers who are UNDEREMPLOYED (i.e. our Electrical Engineer who resorts to applying to Home Depot to help the family survive - and not accomplishing it!) - and that's a REAL story that happened to a friend of my father's, unfortunately.
THESE are economic indicators much more reliable than the governments "Unemployment Rate" anyday.



posted on May, 3 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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good time to revive this thread

the vulchers are just waiting to pounce on people's loss of wealth.

the pumped up money supply shoved into the united states every year is holding up the economy but the gdp growth is not even close to matching the 10% plus rise in the money supply the fed is funneling, and when consumer spending goes bye bye so will the economy this is being done is a way to SWINDLE the american public and create one of the biggest buying opporutnity's of history for those super rich that are in the know when the dust settles. someone thing we need to think about now

anyone else see the problem with the economy and how it is not getting the attention it deserves

or is someone gonna show up and debate illogically and rudely and state how great the economy really is which would make sense considerng the less people that realize this the more money and property the super rich will be able to buy up dirt cheap

however the damage has already been done and like i said the economy is set up so i'm not sure what can be done at this stage except for have a back up plan at the least

[edit on 3-5-2007 by cpdaman]



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