Originally posted by Sun Matrix
You say "Constantine... or a later Pope": which is it? Surely such accusations should at least be specific? It isn't Constantine, anyhow.
I've seen it listed as Constantine and also a later pope. It's late and I don't feel like looking it up as to me it doesn't much matter. They
are on the same team.
Well... it's best to be accurate, surely?
You state that one of these decided to worship this on the birthday of the sun god. But you may wish to know that a birthday for Sol Invictus is only
recorded LATER than our record of the celebration of Christmas on this date. I happen to think that it is mostly likely so; but I merely point out
that there is a problem with these sorts of utterances.
Can you provide proof of this. I would like to see this.
I never feel obliged to prove things to people: let the ignorant be ignorant, I feel (no personal reflection intended here, but don't you get fed up
with weenes demanding 'prove this'?). But I am very keen to pass on information.
I cannot give you the contents of a great deal of reading in the primary literature. What I can tell you, tho, is that the first recorded statement
of a festival on the 25th December of the Natalis of Sol Invictus is in the Chronography of 354. I have started to place this online, so you can see
it for yourself at
www.tertullian.org...
You can get some idea of what I have been looking at from
www.tertullian.org...
I have been in contact with Drs Salzman and Hijmans on this subject, and the absence is very interesting. However... when I looked in A. DEGRASSI,
Inscriptiones Italiae, vol. 13: Fasti et elogia, fasc. 2: Fasti Anni Numani et Iuliani (Rome, 1963), I looked at all the calendars to see what there
was for 25 Dec. but I couldn't help noticing that no calendars were actually available from between about 100 AD and the Chronography of 354. So (I
think, ignorantly) this silence may not be very significant.
There are LATER references to a solar feast on this date; Julian the Apostate records one in that period, Thomas of Edessa in the 6th century does.
The scholiast on Dionysius bar Salibi says that Christmas was instituted on that date to replace a solar feast; but Dionysius bar Salibi lived in the
13th century, and the scholiast later, so his evidence isn't very conclusive.
I have started to collect ancient statements about Sol Invictus (incomplete):
www.tertullian.org...
But it seems entirely possible that the official festival on 25 Dec. was a retaliation by the pagan revival of the mid-4th century, rather than an
ancient feast. Sol Invictus was, after all, a foundation in 274 by Aurelian, not necessarily at all the same as the old worship of Sol.
That said, my own opinion (contra Hijmans) is that the 25 Dec. *was* instituted as a festival by Aurelian or one of the following emperors. I think
this because I can't see how Constantine or his successors up to 354 AD would create one, all of them being Christians; and that the festival is not
ancient is shown by the unusual number of chariot races on that date -- XXX rather than the standard XXIV found for older major festivals in the
calendar. But I have to acknowledge that this is only my opinion; actual evidence is lacking.
(Information about the date of Christmas can be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia article online -- it references all the scanty sources we have,
which is the only part of the article interesting to us).
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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