Originally posted by Osbert

9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.

Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on Dec 25 because high priest Pontiff Maximus Constantine the worshipper of Apollo or Sol Invictus or a later pope decided to worship the birth of the Messiah on the birthday of the sun god.

Jesus was not born on Dec 25th





THINK........THINK.........THINK

Don't take what is fed to you to find.................Seek the truth.

So sunmatrix, are saying that we shouldn't take what is fed to us? That we need to dig deeper and seek the truth? 'cuz your not being very clear.

I find it helpful when I feel heated or agitated in a discussion of passionate opinions, to remind myself that opinions rarely change in the face of opposition; but rather, are more effectively considered in mean time.

Now after reading Byrds comment can you not yet see that what you are being taught is being manipulated?

Do you not yet understand that you are being fed a crock to keep you from seeing the truth?

Go the Babylon to find the source of all these false gods. Exactly what the Bible says.

You are being deceived by the Deceiver.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Now after reading Byrds comment can you not yet see that what you are being taught is being manipulated?
Do you not yet understand that you are being fed a crock to keep you from seeing the truth?
Go the Babylon to find the source of all these false gods. Exactly what the Bible says.
You are being deceived by the Deceiver.

The Free Online Encyclopedia claims to have 700,000 articles on topics and Byrds comments are in part also true. There are many references to Horus and it would be great to have a discussion with Byrds on the subject.

My point is, that inspite of what you say, Jesus is not unique; there are many similarities between Jesus and other Gods, the Bible was written by Rabbis who were human, fallable and copied a lot from other sacred texts.

The name Jesus is Greek, Yeshua is the hebrew name for Jesus and it is made up by the Tetragram IHVH (Yeohwa) inflated by the letter Sh (Holy Fire in Hebrew) thus giving you IHShVH or Yeshua. So in the one word you have the Trinity: the Father, The Son and the Holy Fire.

What exacly are you saying apart from Think..Think..Think... Babylon.. Deceiver etc.

If you are not been fed crocks what is the truth you are seeing?

Thanks for the Corrections Byrd! I myself personally believe that Jesus/Yeshua was an actual man who did many great things: he was a Teacher, Healer, Political Activist & Spiritual Master. I have more than a hunch however that the Jesus/Yeshua of History & the Christ Demi-God of Faith are in reality really two different things that just happened to overlap depending on your perspective. We can see that things such as the concept of Christ as a God or the Son of God has roots in various Ancient Pagan Mythologies - such of that as Horus!

Great Thread! You made another good point in your last post Osbert! THIS is why I find Hermeticism & Gnosticism so fascinating!!!

Originally posted by Osbert
[were human, fallable and copied a lot from other sacred texts.



What exacly are you saying apart from Think..Think..Think... Babylon.. Deceiver etc.

If you are not been fed crocks what is the truth you are seeing?

These false god fables come from Babylon. They are put there to keep you from seeing the truth. If you want to know the truth, the truth is there to be found. Otherwise you can find only what has been put there to deceive you.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

These false god fables come from Babylon. They are put there to keep you from seeing the truth. If you want to know the truth, the truth is there to be found. Otherwise you can find only what has been put there to deceive you.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

So Timothy 4:3 warns against fables, Peter warns against cunningly devised fables, you appear to be saying that everything is crock apart from what you personally believe but you have not yet said what you believe...?

How about this from the Bible (obviously more fables):

"I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16)

This verse presents the most shocking revelation in the entire Bible. On the very last page, it reveals Jesus as the "bright and morning star". In other words, Lucifer-- Satan!

In other words, Lucifer - Satan!

First off, Lucifer & Satan are not the same being at all. Secondly, Jesus Christ is certainly not connected to Satan at all - stating that Christ is like the Bright Morning Star is just that - a comparison.

There are about a Million Threads about the difference between Lucifer & Satan here on ATS (or you could just Google it) - I suggest that you educate yourself before you embarrass yourself again in your next post!

Originally posted by Osbert

Originally posted by cavscout
What I always find amazing about these types of conversations is the pride of those preaching the atheist faith. Enlightenment and righteousness, to whatever extent they can be achieved by man on Earth, must always have the prerequisite of humbleness followed by love followed by faith. Humbleness, love and faith are among the highest of the noble traits and are the only paths to the small level of righteousness that man can achieve on Earth. The quest for knowledge has its roots in pride, for the quest for knowledge assumes that man has the capacity for knowledge of the creator.

Who among us has true knowledge? Not one.

Should an infant take council with other infants as to the affairs of adults?

Who among us has the mind to rival the Lord? Who can out think the Alpha and Omega? The wisest of mankind understands only that he can understand nothing. How prideful are you all to think that you can understand anything!

What is your mission, Morning Star? What enlightenment can you have? To what do you attribute your knowledge? Aren’t you a created being? Aren’t you a man like me, or are you more, or are you less?

If you want to witness real pride go to the Vatican in Rome and spend a few minutes observing the Cardinals..

You're evading Cavscout's question, Osbert; What do you bring to the table in the way of enlightenment and why should your opinion or views have any more weight than anyone elses? Where do you get the cheek to tear down another person's faith, without offering anything tangible in return? Do you have anything spiritually edifying to offer us, or are you just bashing what you can't or won't accept?

I would really like to know. This question is not at all rhetorical; I'll accept responses from anyone who can give me one valid reason to think that what you don't believe is better than what I choose to believe? Any takers?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

First off, Lucifer & Satan are not the same being at all. Secondly, Jesus Christ is certainly not connected to Satan at all - stating that Christ is like the Bright Morning Star is just that - a comparison.

There are about a Million Threads about the difference between Lucifer & Satan here on ATS (or you could just Google it) - I suggest that you educate yourself before you embarrass yourself again in your next post!

Please you're making me laugh. Lucifer and Satan are the same fallen angel. Lucifer was his name prior to the fall. You have spent too much time educating yourself with Gnostic nonsense.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by Osbert

9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.

Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on Dec 25 because high priest Pontiff Maximus Constantine the worshipper of Apollo or Sol Invictus or a later pope decided to worship the birth of the Messiah on the birthday of the sun god.

Jesus was not born on Dec 25th






THINK........THINK.........THINK

OK then when was he born? why is it that you know all things? And stop telling people to think, thats why we're here, we have inquiring minds

Don't take what is fed to you to find.................Seek the truth.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
First off, Lucifer & Satan are not the same being at all. Secondly, Jesus Christ is certainly not connected to Satan at all - stating that Christ is like the Bright Morning Star is just that - a comparison.

There are about a Million Threads about the difference between Lucifer & Satan here on ATS (or you could just Google it) - I suggest that you educate yourself before you embarrass yourself again in your next post!

Satan in Christianity:
In the Bible the one named Devil and Satan is shown to be an angel who rebelled against God - the one who spoke through the serpent and seduced Eve into disobeying God's command. He is also identified therein as the accuser of Job, the tempter of the Gospels, and the dragon in the Book of Revelation. Before his betrayal it is widly believed that he was the highest of all angels and the" b]brightest in the sky", his divintity is considered a reason why he would not bow to God as all other angels did, but sought to rule heaven himself. He is called "the ruler of the demons" (Matt. 12:24); "the ruler of the world" and even "the god of this world." (2Cor. 4:4) The Bible book of Revelation describes how Satan is cast out of Heaven, down to the earth, having "great anger" and waging war with those "who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus" until he is destroyed forever in the "lake of fire." (Rev. 12:7-17; 20:10)

Satan is also commonly known as the Devil, the "Prince of Darkness," Beelzebub, Belial, Lucifer, and Mephistopheles.

Having quoted all that from Wiki, I do admit that there are many other interpretations depending wether it is Talmud or Islam etc..

Originally posted by Stormrider
I would really like to know. This question is not at all rhetorical; I'll accept responses from anyone who can give me one valid reason to think that what you don't believe is better than what I choose to believe? Any takers?

Not really a question of better or worse but personal opinion, mine is this:

DIVINE INSANITY

God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!

Originally posted by Ersatz
Not really a question of better or worse but personal opinion, mine is this:

DIVINE INSANITY

God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!

You call it insanity but I call it Love. To get even a small hold on this truth you first have to understand or at least accept the idea of the Trinity as a given. God is one God but three essances: God, The Father, God, The Son and God, The Holy Spirit.
Now this is the Love that God has for us, that though we are sinners and have seperated ourselves from Him, through our sin, God sent His Son (Jesus) to be born of a virgin(in other words, sinless since Christ was not born of man but of God), die a sinners/criminals death(and thereby pay the sin debt of death for all mankind) and then, rise from the dead, thereby, conquering death once and for all.
Then, The Holy Spirit convicts us of our need for a Savior and intercedes for us when we pray for forgiveness and confirms that forgiveness, afterward.

It's a mystery and a wonder and passing strange, for sure; but that is the gospel, in a nutshell. So, yes to those who haven't experienced it, it surely must seem like insanity but actually it's God's love and to believe that is what it means to be a Christian.

Originally posted by Stormrider

Originally posted by Ersatz
Not really a question of better or worse but personal opinion, mine is this:

DIVINE INSANITY

God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!

You call it insanity but I call it Love. To get even a small hold on this truth you first have to understand or at least accept the idea of the Trinity as a given. God is one God but three essances: God, The Father, God, The Son and God, The Holy Spirit.
Now this is the Love that God has for us, that though we are sinners and have seperated ourselves from Him, through our sin, God sent His Son (Jesus) to be born of a virgin(in other words, sinless since Christ was not born of man but of God), die a sinners/criminals death(and thereby pay the sin debt of death for all mankind) and then, rise from the dead, thereby, conquering death once and for all.
Then, The Holy Spirit convicts us of our need for a Savior and intercedes for us when we pray for forgiveness and confirms that forgiveness, afterward.

It's a mystery and a wonder and passing strange, for sure; but that is the gospel, in a nutshell. So, yes to those who haven't experienced it, it surely must seem like insanity but actually it's God's love and to believe that is what it means to be a Christian.

Galileo Galilei once defended himself with the following statement: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use."

Originally posted by Ersatz
Galileo Galilei once defended himself with the following statement: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use."

He also said,
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. and, " You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself." Both are true, as is your quote. I have not foregone the use of my senses, reason or intellect, though you may think differently; all have been used to arrive at my decision to believe.

I think you are giving priority to faith rather than reason and intellect.
There are enough posts on this thread to make anyone question the existence of biblegod.
One cannot argue with faith, so we must agree to disagree; I just do not believe in the supernatural especially when there are so many (Pope Cardinals Priests) making money on the back of it.

Incidentally, I did like Bladerunner a lot.

Lucifer is a fallen angel....he chose to rule in hell rather than submit in heaven..

divine justice (not to mention God's great sense of humor) dictated that he should find himself ruled in hell....Satan.....

if all was perfect order in heaven to begin with, what promted Lucifer to turn to begin with, who tempted him?

Lucifer is a fallen angel, a creation from God...who turned.

Satan is something else, the darker aspects that are a part of God, that God hides from himself. obviously God is not perfect, now is he? otherwise he wouldn't have regretted flooding the earth after the flood.

Creation is the tool that God uses to explore himself, kind of like on a microscopic level.

Duality is the means to do this, androgyne becomes male and female, light and darkness come into existance, good and evil.....that portion that God has hidden from himself separates and becomes evil....Satan...

the angels are created after there is good and evil....Satan is already present.

Originally posted by dawnstar
if all was perfect order in heaven to begin with, what promted Lucifer to turn to begin with, who tempted him?

Satan is something else, the darker aspects that are a part of God, that God hides from himself. obviously God is not perfect, now is he? otherwise he wouldn't have regretted flooding the earth after the flood.

Creation is the tool that God uses to explore himself, kind of like on a microscopic level.

I would have said that what creation experiences is what God adds to his knowledge base.
The points you make are very interesting...

One other aspect to bear in mind about Hell, Satan and Lucifer: when Yahweh was still a Sky/Thunder God like Zeus, Thor,Haddad he was slowly replacing an earlier cult and an earlier goddess Sheol ( means: womb, hell); she was banished to the underworld and this is why to this day we somehow believe that Hell is a big cavern underground and it is also why God has no jurisdiction in hell.