It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Rapture, biblical?

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:00 PM
link   
I have read most of the Bible especially Revelation and Daniel(like most others). I do not want a cat fight on this thread. But the word Rapture is not used in the bible and neither as far as I can see does it mention specifically about extracting Gods people before the tribulation. I have asked a couple of local pastors and they say that it is something that christians more hope for than believe. But l am sure that I just missed the biblical passage or didn't interpret a certain passage the right way to understand where the idea of the "Rapture" comes from. If someone could be friendly and point me out some verses.

Just for clarity all my life I was in church and a devout christian now I am agnostic.

Good Day




posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 01:14 AM
link   
Your local pastors are correct.

Interpretations of the Rapture come from books and authors attempting to define something that does not exist. The Bible does not define the Rapture, And Christ certainly does not spend the time and effort towards the end times as the inclusion of revelations.
Christ concentrated on how we treat our fellow human being, something we should be doing also.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 12:50 PM
link   
You and I agree on this idea.. but I just would like to hear the opposing view and their support for the Rapture idea. I am sure there has to be some type of explanation on how the Rapture became widely accepted by so many christians. Most of the time it is a collection of vague and easily interpreted in many ways scriptures. I would just like to know which ones. Surely it is not completely non biblical



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 12:53 PM
link   
It mentions that christians will be taken with Jesus(or something like that, if i remember correctly) but it does not state anything about being removed from the Earth into Heaven.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 01:05 PM
link   
There is no bible text that specifically says "Jesus will come in secret and snatch all the believers."

The bible texts that do hint at a possible pre-trib rapture is all based on isolated bible texts that have been interpreted without using proper context, and does not work when put under bible scrutiny.

A pastor will quote either 1 thess 5:2 or 2nd Peter 3:10 "he will come as a thief in the night" because he will come suddenly to snatch away the true believer. But when you look at the context 1 thess says that he will come as a thief in the night to UNBELIEVERS and the UNSAVED. 2nd Peter says that after Christ comes as a thief in the night all the earth and its inhabitants shall be burnt up, and yet pre tribbers say there is a 7 year antichrist reign.

There's some other things pretrib rapture uses like the parable where Jesus says "one shall be taken, the other left" thus hinting on a pretrib rapture. But can we honestly take this literally? By saying this parable means there is a pre trib rapture is like saying the parable of the rich man and lazarus is exactly how Heaven is going to be like; in Abraham's bosom and we are going to be able to tease people in hell with droplets of water.

If anyone had any knowledge of the New Testament this parable was talking about a prophecy that Jesus used to try to save the pharisees. the rich man who was burning in hell ask abraham to tell his brothers so that they wont share the same fate, but abraham said they had moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

Then the rich man said "nay Father, but if one went unto them from the dead they will repent"

Abraham then said "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Now to understand why Jesus made this parable, all one had to do was look at what happened to the real Lazarus, who died for 4 days, and whom Jesus ressurected, but what happened? The pharisees conspired to kill Lazarus as well! (John 12:10) thus fulfilling prophecy that they would not hear one who rose from the dead.

And yet many pastors and ministers take this parable so literally that Jesus is giving us an image of how hell will be like. I ask, can't the same be said for those taking the "one shall be taken, the other left" too literally?

In the olivet discourse in Matthew 24, the very first thing that Christ said when asked what shall be the sign of the end of the world was....

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Unbelievers cannot be deceived, because they do not believe.

It is Christians that will be deceived, and many will, because they are seduced by the fanciful doctrines made popular by mega churches and televangelists.

With the recent CNN and other mainstream media spots of prominent evangelical leaders being interviewed and asked about the pretrib rapture and the endtimes because of the conflict in Israel, the interest in the endtimes and bible prophecy has jumped a great deal.

If many shall come as wolves in sheeps clothing then the only safeguard we have against the things that are going to happen to us is the bible.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 02:53 PM
link   
This has been (OVERLY) discussed on BTS. Use the search function of BTS or
go through the religion forum there. You'll find a TON of info.


'Rapture' was made up by failed anglican priest Nelson Darby in the mid 1800s.
It was soul-candy ... a free ticket off the planet before all the muck in the end
times. Who wouldn't want that? It caught on. An easy-out. It is not biblical
and it is not found in any sacred tradition. It was made up about 150 years ago.

BTW - only a very small portion of the 2 billion Christians on the planet believe in
this. It is mostly a phenomenon of some fundamentalists in the USA.

Search BTS religion forum. It's all there.

[edit on 8/7/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 03:42 PM
link   
Growing up southern baptist I thought only primitive baptists didn't believe in the rapture. I was shocked to find out when I actually began to research the issue that like FlyersFan said it was made up about 150 years ago. I think it gained widespread appeal in the US by some bible commentary that was widely printed and of course everyone took it as gospel. Freeyourmind I hope you won't turn your back on God just because the people you trusted and believed all your life may be wrong on this issue. I went through the same thing myself. Rapture, free-will v/s predestination, literal v/s figurative, questioning the logic of fundamentalism, literal v/s symbolic interpretation of revelation. It's hard but when it comes down to it: all the preachers and churches and interpretations don't mean squat but Jesus does. If you can read the Bible without a commentary telling you what it means and you're okay with Jesus as you read him to be then you probably shouldn't call yourself an agnostic; but if you read the Bible for yourself and you don't like Jesus then I can see you calling yourself agnostic. Anyway, just my experience. Hope it helps. Oh, BTW I also once went farther than agnostic I once said I was atheist but I don't anymore.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 04:15 PM
link   
I believe rapture is in reference to:

"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words." - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 04:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God
I believe rapture is in reference to:

"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words." - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18



Yes, Saint4 God is right. Rapture just means caught up. And 1 Thes 4 does speak about the being caught up at the time of the resurrection of the righteous.
This occurs after the end of the 7-year tribulation (Rev 20:4-5) and, as I can demonstrate in a much longer discussion. It occurs 40 days into the eighth year, the year after the tribulation which is the year of God's wrath (Isa 34:8) upon the earth. During this time, God's people will be supernaturally protected and will see the fulfillment of Psalm 91 in the fall of the wicked with their own eyes up close and personal. 40 days after the start of the wrath, the dead in christ are raised and then we who remain are caught up into the air (Rev 16) to be with Him.

We remain in heaven for about 1 year while the Lord carries out His wrath on the earth, then we return with Him to finish the job (Rev 19) and start His reign in the
millenial kingdom.

It's a lot of verses to demonstrate all of the types and shadows to demonstrate this timeline, but this is the bottom line. I have heard many people try to argue against this because it is not pleasant for the flesh to think about going through the tribulation, but I am sure that we will and many of us will be killed in that time.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 05:00 PM
link   
Of all the different views & times pertaining to the rapture, just keep the main point in mind.

God's wrath (or the GREAT Tribulation) of the end times is NOT meant for his people. It is meant for Satan & his followers.

Jesus also doesn't tell us to watch for the AntiChrist/Beast, or for the Tribulation. He tells us to watch for his RETURN.
His return will come before the final full wrath is poured upon the Earth.
(He refers to it in a parable form as a "harvest")
(whenever that happens to be.)

Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

He does tell us the signs to watch for, in order for us to know the beginning of the "birth pangs" of the change in the times so to speak.

The parable of the fig tree (which is about Israel) explains what to watch for......

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:32 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.



What that means is, When Israel has grown, & starts to reach a certain level of Power/independence, know that the time is approaching.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 12:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by marko1970
Mat 24:32 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.


What that means is, When Israel has grown, & starts to reach a certain level of Power/independence, know that the time is approaching.



Hi Marko,

I think the world will be misled looking for physical Israel to come to full power. The fig tree is a symbol of God's people, in the old Testament, the physical Jews. In the new Testament (Romans 2), it is the believers, also called the Israel of God in a later epistle. The parable of the leaf is a believer who is sent forth from God to minister to the world. What does a leaf do - it takes in the Sun (Son) (1 Cor 15:50-52, 2 Cor 3:18) and puts out Oxygen (air,breath,wind,spirit - same word in greek as I recall). It is the same allusion as the White Horse Rider with a bow in his hand (Jesus) but no arrows. The arrows are His sons sent out already into the world. You will soon see a set of virtually unknowns in the world walking fully in the steps of Jesus with His nature, character, and authority (meaning of word Name in greek and Hebrew) and that is the bringing forth of the leaves.




top topics



 
0

log in

join