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Crossing the Line: Shaming Voters to the Polls

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posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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The firm is run by political analyst Mark Grebner, who explains that his etov.com project (vote spelled backwards, which is annoying on its face) is actually a research effort with Yale University to determine what would motivate border-line voters.

~~~~~~~~~

Grebner's letter, sent to 80,000 homes, notes that who votes and who doesn't is public information, and that he will be watching Tuesday to make sure I don't slack off again.

The not-too-subtle threat is that if I miss the vote, I'll be outed.

www.detnews.com

Practical Political Consulting is in the news lately, at least in the state of Michigan. They are sending letters out to people who didn't vote in past elections in Michigan. The letter that came to a member of my household, trying to make him feel bad for not going to the polls. Now, he usually votes and was at first shocked that someone other than the government knew about his voting history and more than a little irked that that someone was trying to pressure him through guilt into voting next week.

But, apprarently, that is not the end of the story. PPC, headed by Mark Grebner is also sending letters to non-voters in Michigan listing which of your neighbors also didn't vote!!
And, while this may be public record, it is appalling that the information is being used in such an underhanded way. Is this what we want in this country? Sharing and shaming citizens to vote, no because they feel a civic duty and/or feel strongly about an issue or a candiate.



ETOV in the news:
www.ourmidland.com
www.freep.com.../20060804/NEWS06/608040421
FREEP:

The first is the one Nicholson received [showing a list of your neighbors and whether they voted]. Another tells the resident only of his or her own voting record. A third simply urges everyone to vote, and a fourth informs the resident that a study is taking place examining records of who votes and who does not.

www.grebner.com...
GREBNER:

Although this project is entirely legal under Michigan and federal law, provision is made for removing the name of anyone who does not wish to be included. To have your name removed, you may send an e-mail to Etov@Grebner.com, or you can phone 517-351-1975 and leave a message, or you can mail requests to: ETOV, Post Office Box 6249, East Lansing MI 48826. We will only accept individual requests.

Although we will not include your name on subsequent mailings, we will of course continue to watch whether you vote and see whether our experiment has affected you.

www.lsj.com...


[edit on 6-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 03:33 AM
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Usually I say that people should be able to do what they choose in life however compulsory voting is the expection. I think that compulsory voting is necessary to prevent the same group of people from electing the government.

All Im going to say about the lack of privacy in America is this. I dont understand the American mindset. People seem to deny the fact the political system has failed them.



posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 08:19 AM
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Thanks for your comments, xpert11.

I guess I'm surprised about the lack of comments here.
You'd think this additional invasion of privacy would touch a nerve or two

But then if folks are too apathetic to vote, they are probably too apathetic to notice this new invasion or probably don't even open this latest attempt to encourage voting.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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DT.,
It has struck a nerve I am twitching, that's why am addicted to ATS, someone is always alert and on the spot.
People have been groomed to accept a system that violates their privacy. Remarks I hear are such as " Well we need someone to control us so we don't get out of control" with out a second thought that perhaps honest involvement in our society and responsible behaviour would solve the problem more efficiently than any law or regulation not to speak of such outrageous manipulation as mentioned in your link above.
It sounds more like Russian Mob tactics to me.
We are people of rules and regulations, freedom, responsibility, compassion are locked in a cage of complacency.
No one DID this to us we just stop revolting.
I do vote, and should I receive such a letter I will immediately address my congressman.
WIS



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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It is unnerving to look back to what I remember what things were like in the US. The way things used to be.

I think it's more that the way my parent's generation reacted to younger generations. ie not understanding their clothes, music, etc.
It's much more widespread, we accept things--apparently--complacently. There's so many things I seen going on and I wonder where the outrage is.

And the outrage I see, such as Cindy Sheehan, it's just not the same. It's like a celebrity cause. She becomes an icon--gawd I hate that word--of the antiwar folks.
Where is the grass roots outrage over the war, or for those in power. I just don't see it.

I don't see the outrage over invasion of privacy like I think there should be. Have we become conditioned already to the post 9/11 need for national security?
I think the tactics used by Practical Political Consulting is just another brick in the wall



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Hmmm, just sitting here wanting to write an essay backing in it up by tons of links but I still don't know how to do it.

I am so terrified by the behaviour I daily encounter just by my neighbors. paranoid, schizophrenic, narcissistic, passive-aggressive behaviour.
The grass roots are here but mo one listens because, I think, they have parted themselves from the majority.
They are an elite group.
Huge subject.
Cindy S. guess I should pay more attention and stop putzing around out doors.
I can name all t
WIS



posted on Aug, 10 2006 @ 09:56 PM
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Do you really think there is an grassroots movement that has any chance of making changes?

Just this evening, the comment was made to me that the next generation of children will already be so indoctrinated by media, etc than a chip probably won't even be needed.
At that point, I guess no one will need to worry about elections and voting



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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DT,
" .....grass-root movement that has any chance...". I had to think about this, I so wanted to say YES, but I can't, honestly. Perhaps because as I mentioned before they have become an elite, intellectuals divided from the vast majority of blue collar people.
These people are for the most part poor or lower middle class, they have none or hardly any education. I believe it is in the governments favor to hold people in poverty and ignorance. Hungry, tired people don't argue.
It is easy to manipulate people with no education.

I fear we now must rely on the individuals personal judgement with out leadership from a sane responsible source. People do not anticipate leadership any more, as we have become exceedingly self oriented we no longer look to those who have more knowledge for advise.
We base our judgement and action upon the moments impression.
I just don't understand why people submit so easily.

Has there been any reactions to this practice?
WIS
[edit spelling, sentence]

[edit on 11-8-2006 by WalkInSilence]

[edit on 11-8-2006 by WalkInSilence]



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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I don't have a problem with this, if it's stuff you can find out anyway, I don't have a problem.

To few people vote in America, which may be why our government has been failing us for so long.

I'm a big supporter if individual and especially private rights, but when it comes to this kind of thing, when so few are voting, I don't oppose it.



posted on Aug, 11 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Do we really want people who are too lazy to vote, or have to be compelled by the threat of arrest or public shaming, to actually vote?

I mean, it seems like we'd want the opposite. Its an automatic elimination process, anyone stupid enough to not vote, screw it, we don't want those kinds of idiots input in the first place!


To few people vote in America, which may be why our government has been failing us for so long.

Does anyone actually think that if more americans voted, that the government wouldn't suck? Has anyone here actually seen a bunch of americans? Do you really want these people to be deciding who's running things? I mean, there was a survey of a NYC school not too long ago, and 10 percent of the kids couldn't find the United States on a map! Do you really think they are capable of making a decision on who's in what office?

Everyone thinks 'populism' is such a good idea, until they see the lunatics that get brought in. If people think politics appeals to the lowest common denominator now, figure what we'd see if people were being dragged into the polling booths.

[edit on 11-8-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 06:01 AM
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Didnt the American education system create these idiots ?
Did you consider that Americans might not vote because they know that candidates can win the popular vote and still lose an election ?
Dosnt it bother you that it appears as if the US government is dumbing people down so they wont vote ?



[edit I hit the 'edit' button instead of 'quote' and didn't realize until after composing and posting what I thought would be a reply. Apologies. I beleive I have restored your orignal post. If there is something missing, please let me know via u2u and I will edit it back in. Again, apologies -nygdan]



[edit on 13-8-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Didnt the American education system create these idiots ?

In large part, sure.

Did you consider that Americans might not vote because they know that candidates can win the popular vote and still lose an election ?

Thats a pretty stupid reason to not vote.

Dosnt it bother you that it appears as if the US government is dumbing people down so they wont vote ?

You don't need to do anything to make people dumb.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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The privacy issue doesn't really shock me - heck, while working during the 2000 campaign cycle I covered for a girl on the phones during her lunch-break and those people had lists of those who were registered and that hadn't voted in the previous election. They were calling them up the day before the election to remind them of their polling place and to vote for our candidates and issues. I even learned a few new colorful words that day listening to people who didn't agree with us! (Yes, that's right sir, Republicans report to their polling locations on the 7th. Democrats, the 8th. You have a good day, too.)

I really don't know how it is everywhere else, but for my precinct and polling place shaming people into voting wouldn't work too well. I had to park at least 7 or 8 blocks away from my polling spot and then wait around 3 hours in the Florida heat (it's November, but still!) during the '04 elections. And I thought I was taking "advantage" of pre-voting (this was two days prior to election-day)! If I wasn't passionate about the candidates and issues I would simply have kept driving after seeing the line stretch way around the block.

Now, when I strongly encourage my apathetic friends to vote, I print out a list of candidates and issues that I plan to vote for (nudge, nudge). I think if people were shamed into voting they would probably vote for the candidate with the cutest bird passing out party literature, or the guy passing out the best refreshments while they're in line to vote. Even though I was thoroughly versed in the candidates and issues of the previous election, and knew very well who I'd be voting for, I didn't let anyone in line around me know it and gladly took the pepsi from the guy in the Kerry shirt and the pamphlet from the cute Nader girl.

Needless to say, the material passed out had some bizarre "facts" listed in it (which I assume would be true of any group/party), but I imagine people who weren't solidly in support of their candidate would be very swayed by the last thing they saw on their way into the voting booth.

[edit on 13-8-2006 by AlphaHumana]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Has anyone here actually seen a bunch of americans? Do you really want these people to be deciding who's running things?



Nygdan, Was that necessary? That was a very prejudice comment. You have some very realistic points and facts. But is it timely to use such fascist out bursts?
Yes, it would be easier to have a central government to rule out the already pacified millions, to dictate every action, this may happen if we submit to such argumentation as yours.
As an American citizen I must oppose to this. Your view point is a threat to democracy.

The illiterate are not to be blamed, it is society as a whole, every individual.

You are a Moderator and should not bring forth such prejudice.
WIS

[edit on 13-8-2006 by WalkInSilence]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by WalkInSilence
Yes, it would be easier to have a central government to rule out the already pacified millions,

I'm not saying that, democracy is fine, let people vote as they see fit. Indeed, its self regulating, the idiots tend not to vote. Thats the beauty of the system, it elminates the very people that we don't really want to be invovlved.

Now if we could just find a way to weed out the nincompoops amoung the politicians, that'd be something!


As an American citizen I must oppose to this. Your view point is a threat to democracy.

Allowing people to vote as they please is anti-democratic?


You are a Moderator and should not bring forth such prejudice.

I'd consider that, if it were an unfounded prejudice. Fact is, most people are blithering morons, thats true in america and a lot of other countries. That doesn't mean we should have a directorate of people with 150 IQs running things. Hell, lots of those people with super high IQs are to be incluced in the 'blithering moron' grouping as it is!



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
You'd think this additional invasion of privacy would touch a nerve or two

But then if folks are too apathetic to vote, they are probably too apathetic to notice this new invasion or probably don't even open this latest attempt to encourage voting.


Thats exactly what bugs me about this. it seems a bit draconian and intrusive.

Who is really behind these people anyway?



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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Skadi, see Their Plan is working.
The apathy is taking over and soon the constant 24/7 "news" and our eroding sense of privacy will render most of us slaves to Their Agenda. Theree's almost no difference between the two parties and soonit will make even less difference who wins.

No RFID or any other chip will be needed. No fancy surgery or drugs to make us complacent members of society.

I guess the fact that this idea scares and saddens me is proof that we are not there yet


[edit on 14-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
In large part, sure.


So in effect the US government is doing its best to prevent future generations from voting.




You don't need to do anything to make people dumb.


Good point there is a differnce between being uneducated and having a low IQ.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 08:55 PM
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Nygdan, I do not appreciate having my words twisted. Discussion over.

DTOM. I believe it is impossible to out-rid the consciousness of all, some of us will remain alienated to society.
Or perhaps I'm wrong.
WIS



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 09:52 PM
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WIS, I'm not sure I understand.
Are you saying that some of us won't play the game and become outlaws to the "Agenda"? Like many of us here?
Because, I'm seeing this as a long-term plan by Those Who Rule to take over the hearts and minds of citizens. Two or three generations from now.




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