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Stop 'preaching' about civilian war casualties

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posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:30 PM
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According to the following report from Al Jazeera, quoting German news sources, Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert told European leaders to stop preaching to him about civilian war casualties..



Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, has told European leaders to stop preaching to him about civilian war casualties in an interview published in a German newspaper.

The article in Welt am Sonntag came as two civilians were killed in Lebanon when an Israeli aircraft struck a van travelling just ahead of a United Nations humanitarian convoy on Sunday.

When asked about criticism from European capitals of Israeli military operations that have led to a heavy civilian toll, Olmert said: "Where do they get the right to preach to Israel?

"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed 10,000 civilians. 10,000! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

"I'm not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But please, don't preach to us about the treatment of civilians."

Source Link



Does this mean that the Israelis would say that up to 10,000 civilian war casualties in Lebanon would be acceptable to win the fight against Hezbollah?



[edit on 6-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:33 PM
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Does this mean that the Israelis would say that up to 10,000 civilian war casualties in Lebanon would be acceptable to win the fight against Hezbollah?

[edit on 6-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]


You will find that israel would have no problems tolerating numbers much higher than even that. Provided they are only Lebanese.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz




"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed 10,000 civilians. 10,000! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

Source Link



[edit on 6-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]


Odd how he forgot to mention the US involvement in Kosovo.

Wonder why?



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by neformore


Odd how he forgot to mention the US involvement in Kosovo.

Wonder why?


Maybe he is a firm believer about not bitting the hand thats feeding him.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by UM_Gazz




"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed 10,000 civilians. 10,000! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

Source Link



[edit on 6-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]


Odd how he forgot to mention the US involvement in Kosovo.

Wonder why?


Let me help you on this one...
Because USA are not preaching Israel!!!



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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Israels prime minister seems to have a good check on reality, that war cannot avoid civilian cassualties. Glad to see someone has common sense, and to the Europeans, a group of countries that all throughout their history have dark stains of the slaughter they put onto others should shut there face and remember that just because you like to think you changed, you can't change who you really are.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Glad to see someone has common sense, and to the Europeans, a group of countries that all throughout their history have dark stains of the slaughter they put onto others should shut there face and remember that just because you like to think you changed, you can't change who you really are.


IMHO, the underlined part is exactly why they are preaching against war. They know firsthand the horrors of war.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
and to the Europeans, a group of countries that all throughout their history have dark stains of the slaughter they put onto others should shut there face and remember that just because you like to think you changed, you can't change who you really are.


And where would you be from?



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma
IMHO, the underlined part is exactly why they are preaching against war. They know firsthand the horrors of war.


Correct.

However, simply by Israel not paying enough in “equitable blood” causes her to be assumed guilty by far too many “preachers” to the above comment. ‘Sympathies’ for those that advocate her destruction via propaganda are an instantly gained through unwarranted ‘sympathies’…


mg



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by ZMax
Let me help you on this one...
Because USA are not preaching Israel!!!


Exactly what I was thinking. Horrible when members who I respect and like for their clear thought processes (Skadi) put on blinders because of their hatred, deserved or not, of a country or system. Seeing more and more "10 minute hate" here on ATS from members who are better than that.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Rockpuck
and to the Europeans, a group of countries that all throughout their history have dark stains of the slaughter they put onto others should shut there face and remember that just because you like to think you changed, you can't change who you really are.


And where would you be from?


I would be from America, I am of Irish/English decent, and I recognize my ancestors waged horrific wars and why that has anything to do with what I said, because I am not preaching to Israelis now am I?



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Glad to see someone has common sense, and to the Europeans, a group of countries that all throughout their history have dark stains of the slaughter they put onto others should shut there face and remember that just because you like to think you changed, you can't change who you really are.


IMHO, the underlined part is exactly why they are preaching against war. They know firsthand the horrors of war.


Maybe, or typical arrogance allowes them to feel safe and secure enough to think they know better then any one else.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:44 PM
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Er... 10,000 died in Kosovo? What, as a result of NATO action? I doubt even 10,000 died as a result of Serbian ethnic cleasing.

Figures for the civilian deaths as a result of NATO action came to around 500.

Olmert is talking out of his arse



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by missed_gear
However, simply by Israel not paying enough in “equitable blood” causes her to be assumed guilty by far too many “preachers” to the above comment.


I doubt this is the case. I think it has more to do with the way Israel handled the situation. After the two IDF soldiers were captured by Hezbollah, what was her first response? Bomb Beirut and blockade Lebanon.

I don't know about you but to me, it just doesn't connect. Now the Hezzies still appear steady but Lebanon as a country is set back 20 years. If this were a conflict between -- let's give a non-existent country as examples -- Tanah Ayam and Negara Itik, whereby Guerrila's in Tanah Ayam captured Negara Itik soldiers, and then Negara Itik's response was to level the entire Tanah Ayam, people would most definitely see Negara Itik as the bigger baddie.

Just my RM0.02 (USD0.005445 according to the latest exchange rates)



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Er... 10,000 died in Kosovo? What, as a result of NATO action? I doubt even 10,000 died as a result of Serbian ethnic cleasing.

Figures for the civilian deaths as a result of NATO action came to around 500.

Olmert is talking out of his arse


NATO admits to 1,500 civilian deaths in yugoslavia, 5,000 military deaths, 1,000 serbs, Albanian figures is unclear though it is somewhere near 10,000. That number is not exact, how ever it is clear many many died, not to mention the mass rapes and torture, but that was the serbs not NATO.Kosovo War



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

NATO admits to 1,500 civilian deaths in yugoslavia, 5,000 military deaths, 1,000 serbs, Albanian figures is unclear though it is somewhere near 10,000. That number is not exact, how ever it is clear many many died, not to mention the mass rapes and torture, but that was the serbs not NATO.Kosovo War


That article is a bit contradictory and the extomates range from a total (mil and civ) of a couple of thousand to 12,000.

One example of the contradictory nature of the article is this:


The majority of deaths appear to have been within Kosovo itself; there were up to 5,000 military casualties according to NATO estimates,


The this:


espite the heavy bombardment, NATO was surprised to find afterwards that the Serbian armed forces had survived in such good order. Around 50 Serbian aircraft were lost but only 14 tanks, 18 APCs and 20 artillery pieces[13] Most of the targets hit in Kosovo were decoys, such as tanks made out of plastic sheets with telegraph poles for gun barrels. Anti-aircraft defences were preserved by the simple expedient of not turning them on,
*snip*
Towards the end of the war, it was claimed that carpet bombing by B-52 aircraft had caused huge casualties among Serbian troops stationed along the Kosovo–Albania border. Careful searching by NATO investigators found no evidence of any such large-scale casualties.


Seems to me that best guess would place civilian causalties at less than 1000 and Serbian military about the same.

But, if we stick to Olmerts claim that NATO caused 10,000 dead, then the extimates still range wildly. he has taken the upper most figure and quoted it as fact.

Human Rights Watch says about 500. Now, they are usually the first to go potty when civilians get killed, so one would have thought they would be screaming if 10,000 had been killed by NATO.

Again, Olmert is talking out his arse



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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When in war, those who tolerate your enemy and feed and harbor your enemy are your enemy. War is against nations and countries and tribes.

No one is safe in war. If you do not want to die then leave or help one side or the other win the war.

Civlians who tolerate terrorists among them are not inoccent of anything only meek.

Lebanon is currently an enemy of Israel do not be fooled by politicaly correct propaganda.

There really is no good or fair answer to the problems there. Only if they created a free country like the United States could end the wars there and that will never happen.

If you cannot tolerate others religion, color or race then you are the problem.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by Xeven]



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Xeven
Civlians who tolerate terrorists among them are not inoccent of anything only meek.

Lebanon is currently an enemy of Israel do not be fooled by politicaly correct propaganda.


Ah, but the Israelis have gone to great lengths to explain to the world that the LEBANESE are NOT the enemy of Israel, only that they are Just like Israelis, Victims of Hezbollah.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Stumason I agree NATO did not cause those deaths, never said they did, I said NATO admitted to 1,500 casualties in total military and civilian while some 10,000 died at the hands of serbs, mostly Albanian muslims.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Stumason I agree NATO did not cause those deaths, never said they did, I said NATO admitted to 1,500 casualties in total military and civilian while some 10,000 died at the hands of serbs, mostly Albanian muslims.


Cool, seems we both agree then. I know the Serbs did alot of damage themselves, but Olmert is claiming we inflicted 10,000 deaths, which is BS..

To be expected though, I suppose.



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