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40,000 Troops Desert since 2000

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posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by iori_komei
Wo, I'm not sure I even want to respond in this thread..lots of...well I can't even think of a name for it.




oh, i'm sorry, i must have served in a different military, because i thought the US military was an all volunteer military.
oh wait, it is all volunteer. you can choose not to fight....just dont join up. gee, why didnt i think of that?

I mean that once you sign up, and go to war, and you see you don't want to fight. than you should have the right to say no thank you, and leave.



It is, however once you join and sign your name on the dotted line you know exactly what you’re getting into.

Ha! No offense, but that's one of the most ludicrous things I've read today,
Yes some people know what there getting into, but I'd say about 35-40% don't know.



Then we'd be France.

And what praytell is wrong with France?
[j/k] You know there's a huge nuclear missile under the Eiffel tower that could wipe out the east coast.[/j/k]
Sorry, I had to add that. What is wrong with France? What is right? And what does the phantom warhead "under" the Eiffel Tower have to do with this?



Perhaps, if we had all these people who support the war blindly go to war, and bring the people home who don't want to be there, than maybe we'd actually get somewhere.

[edit on 8/6/2006 by iori_komei]




posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:16 PM
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well now, i'm going on a rant,

i've been watching from the sidelines.....for a very long time

#1 the army/navy.... does NOT advertise to ,go to war and kill people,
OR for humanitarian aid,, (thats red cross,salvation army,childrens fund)
the only advertising i EVER SAW
was for colledge education and money, skills (none of which does any good if youre dead)
that is why MOST (poor) PEOPLE JOIN in the first place, (to get a better LIFE)
not to go kill and be killed

#2 its sad that after they return home, the ONLY support they get,
is from their family and friends...NOT from the government that makes promises
and does not keep them......then cuts off their funds to balance the budget
when the war is over
half the vets i've known cant even get good jobs,
and its much harder if you're a disabled vet,,,maybe at walmart as a greeter
for 6 bucks an hour, except they compete with non vets for that job

#3 i'll say it again like in my other posts....
the people who REALLY WANT the war are the ones
that stay at home and collect HUGE sums of money from investments in the war......

and theese are the VERY SAME ONES who will complain,protest, and make new laws
because NOW they have to TAKE CARE OF and pay for the new wave of"WORTHLESS disabled people" that CAME BACK from the war.......alive


in other words.....the soldiers werent supposed to return!!!

send the warriors out to fight,
and leave the peace loving people alone...
then finally when all the fighters are dead
peace everlasting!!

i'll say it again, all theese warriors are following a leader,
that did whatever he could to get out of going to war himself....(a C.O.W.A.R.D.)
and you WILLINGLY FOLLOW/SUPPORT this guy in a war
what were you thinking.?

.

thats like having a person who filed bankruptcy,
in charge of your money.......sorry i forgot, they are STILL in charge...
of the entire nations money (you know, congressmen,politicians)

like F*ing for virginity

like having a child molester babysit for you

like killing whalesFOR the president of greenpeace

those of you who do go to war,
i feel SORRY FOR YOU,

you aparantly do not have the mental capacity to THINK FOR YOURSELVES,,
and MUST have someone TELL YOU WHAT TO DO
(you know there are laws that put you in jail for murder and theft...destruction of property.)
you say its for your country, bullsh..!! (sorry, i'm wrong there, our country,
WAS built on death and destruction)

yes war is a good excuse aint it, population control and profit
and get rid of a few worthless poor people too!!!

make the rich,politician, people who push for war, make them go and fight,
there would be an immediate cease fire and peace treatys galore....
there would NEVER BE ANOTHER WAR AGAIN

anybody here know 1 person fighting, that came from a WEALTHY FAMILY????
i dont.., they have money for college,, they dont need to enlist,
they can even PAY OFF the judges,courts,mayors, you name it.....
to keep their kids from going.........just like bush's dad did

i dont support EITHER ONE, but at least john kerry was no coward
he did what he had to do, to get back home alive.

have you EVER met an HONEST person
that must be in control (have power over) of something??, anything???............not in my 40+ years

only the corrupt people need to have control of something
(peaceful people do not need to be controlled)...think about that!!!


my views are conflicting kind of,,

#1 if you join the army you are EXPECTED to kill people, thats what armies do!!

#2 alot of the people who did join, was ONLY for the money,skills,college..
not to go kill people.....

i say, instead of court martial,prison time, have those deserters, perform community service, or something,,

there are alot of non-violent ways to still SUPPORT your country, desk jobs, supply,
make them build weapons, runways...........get the picture??

why not send the people in prison to war, IF they come back alive, pardon them
half of them know how to kill already and are already violent



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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Personally as a veteran myself, I really think they should have considered their options before enlisting, I know I did and joined the Coast Guard, I had no moral objection to serving, but I wanted something positive, not continual training to kill.


REPLY: First and foremost grover, thanks for your service.


By Bill Nichols, USA TODAY
Tue Mar 7, 6:47 AM ET

At least 8,000 members of the all-volunteer U.S. military have deserted since the
Iraq war began,
Pentagon records show, although the overall desertion rate has plunged since the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001.

Since fall 2003, 4,387 Army soldiers, 3,454 Navy sailors and 82 Air Force personnel have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number of desertions each year but listed 1,455 Marines in desertion status last September, the end of fiscal 2005, says Capt. Jay Delarosa, a Marine Corps spokesman.

Desertion numbers have dropped since 9/11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined by 148 in 2005.

The desertion rate was much higher during the Vietnam era. The Army saw a high of 33,094 deserters in 1971 - 3.4% of the Army force. But there was a draft and the active-duty force was 2.7 million.

Desertions in 2005 represent 0.24% of the 1.4 million U.S. forces.

Opposition to the war prompts a small fraction of desertions, says Army spokeswoman Maj. Elizabeth Robbins. "People always desert, and most do it because they don't adapt well to the military," she says. The vast majority of desertions happen inside the USA, Robbins says. There is only one known case of desertion in Iraq.

Most deserters return within months, without coercion. Commander Randy Lescault, spokesman for the Naval Personnel Command, says that between 2001 and 2005, 58% of Navy deserters walked back in. Of the rest, the most are apprehended during traffic stops. Penalties range from other-than-honorable discharges to death for desertion during wartime. Few are court-martialed.


Many desert because the only reason they joined was to better educate themselves. And, although that is a selling point for many, they should stay and pay their fair price for our tax dollars...... Where is Mack Bolen when we need him???


i dont support EITHER ONE, but at least john kerry was no coward
he did what he had to do, to get back home alive.


REPLY: Kerry .... Algore.... Clinton .. oh yeah...... they were real patriots.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:08 PM
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A typo I suspect. When you consider that would account a HUGE chunck of of the US armed forces. I just retired from the USAF and I am now a civil servant, in over 20 years of active service I never knew of a single deserter and still don't. If you think about the odds I should have known and heard of quite a few even if the USAF was just a small part of the number.

I suspect the number is supposed to 4000. That would make sense and still be worthy of a news article.

More research is needed on the original story. Stay on topic folks.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout

There were no insurgents in Iraq before we invaded them. It is a shame you are too ignorant to understand that.


Sure there were, only they were running the country at the time and terrorizing all of the other citizens.


df1

posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by viperwrench
I just retired from the USAF and I am now a civil servant, in over 20 years of active service I never knew of a single deserter and still don't.

I would think that a vastly disproportionate majority of those desertions came from army and marine ground troops. Ive lived and worked within a stones throw of wpafb for 45+ years and Ive never even heard a rumor about a usaf officer or enlisted person deserting.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by yeah right
well now, i'm going on a rant,



anybody here know 1 person fighting, that came from a WEALTHY FAMILY????
i dont.., they have money for college,, they dont need to enlist,
they can even PAY OFF the judges,courts,mayors, you name it.....
to keep their kids from going.........just like bush's dad did



I know a number of people from wealthy families who chose to serve. As a matter of fact John MC Cain's son enlisted in the marines a couple of weeks ago. No special treatment there. And what about Pat Tillman?


df1

posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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It just seems like the wealthy are represented, because they parade each one that is accross the media. At least that is what the story below seems to indicate.

ABC News
In all, about 1 percent of U.S. representatives and senators have a child in uniform. And the Capitol building is no different from other places where the leadership class in this country gathers — no different from the boardrooms, newsrooms, ivory towers and penthouses of our nation.


[edit on 6-8-2006 by df1]



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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I have a cousin who's a member of the Texas House of Representatives. He's a successful lawyer in San Antonio . His son is a Marine who's done 2 tours in Iraq. You cannot paint all wealthy people as neo-con's who support the war.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by stanstheman

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
It's interesting I'm twenty-one years old and I had a couple of friends go into the military. Of the five who went into the military (four in the army and one in the navy), three deserted and are on the run right now in Europe and Canada. One is actively trying to get out feeling he was lied too and thinks the service is a joke. He also came out of the closet recently and has to go through routine abuse and even has to constantly fight physically with fools who seem to have a problem with that. And the fifth wound up in a psych ward after his second tour in Iraq.

I don't buy these numbers. Consider the source.


Your friends show a certain lack of character with exception of your gay friend who should be able to serve if he wants to. "Routine abuse" is wrong and it shouldn't happen.


I'd have to disagree. Anyone who refuses to take part in murdering innocent people is showing character. If we had more people like that in the military, we wouldn't be considered the monster that we are today, viciously picking unprovoked fights with defenseless civilians.

The ones without the character, and intelligence for that matter, are the ones who get all caught up in this "proud to kill" thing. You people are the scourge of the human-race and the only way the problems of the world will be fixed is when the pro-violence neanderthals realize that the caveman-mentality just isn't getting it done these days.

Wake up and quit sacrificing your God-given right to think in exchange for the comfort of knowing that no matter how much trouble we, as a nation, cause across the world, we can kill anyone who disagrees or stands up to us.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." --George Washington

This quote could not be more relevant to today... especially with the way all the war-mongers have hijacked the very meaning of patriotism to suit their selfish and arrogant needs.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 06:09 AM
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I will say thanks this time Zappa BUT, and I know I will get a ration of poop for this, but it has always kinda bugged me when people thank me for my military service. I did not do anything especially noble, I was paid, recieved educational and other benefits and a 30% disability now for a very messed up knee injured while in. In short I was compensated for my service i.e. it was a job.

I object to military personal being called heroes (or sports figures even more so) unless they do something above and beyond the call of duty, for the very same reasons.

There is nothing noble about war and nothing especially noble spending your youth preparing for it. There is nothing noble obeying an order to go to war, considering the club called the Military Code of Justice they hold over your head, and its penalties if you do not comply.

For the majority of our service people, in combat or not, it is a job, a way to get ahead, even for the lifers and like I said unless they do something above and beyond the call of duty, they are not heroes. That word should be saved for the truly heroic, like the off duty first responders who rushed to the World Trade Center, even though they didn't have, and died.

This is not to disparage our military personal, but a statement of facts, or at the very least, how I see it and it is not to say there are not noble or heroic acts in war, there are, but htey are individual cases...for the rest, its just a job.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by stanstheman
You are AWOL for the first 15 days then you are a deserter, AWOL is part of desertion

If your'e 5 minutes late for morning PT you are AWOL, wether you get charged or not is up your command.

Being AWOL is not part of desertion. That's why there's a distinct 30 days, not 15 days. 1-29 and your AWOL, 30+ and your'e a deserter.

Two different offenses, two different punishments.

Sporty



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 08:16 AM
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I thought so...that jives with what we were taught in basic.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by SportyMB

Originally posted by stanstheman
You are AWOL for the first 15 days then you are a deserter, AWOL is part of desertion

If your'e 5 minutes late for morning PT you are AWOL, wether you get charged or not is up your command.

. 1-29 and your AWOL, 30+ and your'e a deserter.

Two different offenses, two different punishments.

Sporty


That's what I said but I was 14 days off.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by firebat

Originally posted by stanstheman

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
I


I'd have to disagree. Anyone who refuses to take part in murdering innocent people is showing character. If we had more people like that in the military, we wouldn't be considered the monster that we are today, viciously picking unprovoked fights with defenseless civilians.

Anyone in the military who refuses to follow orders while their unit is engaged puts their unit at risk. That does not show character. This is different from refusing to do something like rape a 14 year old Iraqi girl and kill her familiy. Those soldiers are just criminals in uniform and also put their fellow soldiers at risk.

The ones without the character, and intelligence for that matter, are the ones who get all caught up in this "proud to kill" thing.

I totally agree, but you do get a lot of different types in the Army. My B-I-L had to physically restrain one of his LTs in Iraq because he was taking his platoon out on patrol without anyone knowing. That LT ended his career right then. He's out now.



I haven't figured out how do do the multiple quote and response thing yet, my apologies.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 10:17 AM
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your marriage between church and state. Your forefathers recognized this might occur, so they built in a 'relief valve', the right to bear arms.


REPLY:What a ****. Sorry, but this, alone, shows how little you actually know. There is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, and the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with what you wrongly suggest.


intelligence would suggest that is where much of our global unrest exists.


REPLY: About 80% of the places on earth where blood is flowing in the streets has radical Islam at it's roots; so what were you saying about inteligence?


Weapons are usually held in the right hand


REPLY: Ummmmm .... most people are right-handed.

Our Socialist friends to the North (Canada) has lost some of it's right to free speech, so that argument is not valid.


Should I find the link showing how poorly you do as a nation in comparison to the rest of the Americas? I stand by my assertion that a nation fed the amount of low-brow info-tainment I see posioning my Canadian airwaves is not good for the collective consciousness of a nation.


REPLY: There's only two, North and South, of which you also belong to the North. South America is a non-productive cesspool. I do agree, however, with your comment about our airwaves. Odd to hear you say it though, as many TV shows are copies of British ones.

Can we get on topic please?



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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The seperation to Church and State is enunciated in the Bill of Rights which is the preamble to the constitution so yes it is in the constitution... to say otherwise is splitting hairs.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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But I forgot, school teaches you how to think but it is life that teaches you how to feel... and you miss my point entirely...your system of indocrination / education is streamlined to cater to left-brained thinking.


REPLY: And it is always better to actually "think" than it is to "feel." The "left brain" thing is false, also.


recruiters tend to cruise inner city schools and the like because as a rule people there are more desperate for a leg up in those areas, and unfortunately, education levels are lower.


REPLY: Why would they do that (they don't) since those people wouldn't pass the entrance exams for service?


1) I mean that once you sign up, and go to war, and you see you don't want to fight. than you should have the right to say no thank you, and leave.

2) Yes some people know what there getting into, but I'd say about 35-40% don't know.

3) And what praytell is wrong with France?


REPLY: 1) Yes, by all means they should leave, and lose all forms of payment, pay back the costs for the education they received (around $100K), and no military benefits. If what you propose were true in the past, all of Europe would be speaking German.

2) Now THATS ludicrous.

2) There were no insurgents in Iraq before we invaded them. It is a shame you are too ignorant to understand that.

3) If we have to tell you, you'd never understand.

REPLY: No insurgents in Iraq? Ever hear of the Baathist fighters? They've been there since Saddam came into power.


"...something to be said about a president who used his daddy's political connections to dodge the Vietnam draft but doesn't think twice about sending legitimate soldiers to die in his own modern day Vietnam. (in this) modern day Vietnam.


REPLY: Not even close to being the same. I was in VN, I went as an adviser to Iraq.... big difference. Bush served in the NG, which many people did; no shame there. He didn't go to Canada, like many of the cowards did, and still do.


You people who think this war is great and the soldiers who fight it are heroes should put on a uniform and request a deploying unit for your first duty station.


REPLY: Been there, done that. I'd do it again, but my age will not allow me to do so.

Grover........ I agree with you on the "heroes" issue, most definately about the first responders to 9-11.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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by yeah right:

1) i'll say it again, all theese warriors are following a leader,
that did whatever he could to get out of going to war himself....(a C.O.W.A.R.D.)
and you WILLINGLY FOLLOW/SUPPORT this guy in a war
what were you thinking.?

2) NOW they have to TAKE CARE OF and pay for the new wave of"WORTHLESS disabled people" that CAME BACK from the war.......alive

3) those of you who do go to war, i feel SORRY FOR YOU,


REPLY: 1) Are you sure you're not speaking of ex-president Pantload?

2) Go to Walter Reed Hospital, ask them what they think, and call them worthless face to face.

3) I feel sorry for you, and others, who are moral welfare recipients, enjoying the rights you do on the backs of sacrifices made by thopse you rant about.

I'm done here.


df1

posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Deleted double post
.

[edit on 7-8-2006 by df1]



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