Masons: 2 things I KNOW they're hiding

Originally posted by hexrain1

When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy.

that i feel is grossly wrong. not many people know this but in estoric traditions and even kabbalah and judaism, Lucifer was not assosiated with "satan." Lucifer translates to "the light bringer"

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Just trying to bring some aternative information into this thead via the masonic writings of the higher ones who give ample evidence of their craft being one of obvious occultic nature, since you feel i'm wrong I'll butt out of your thread. But at least I gave some external sources for what I believe.

True the bible is the book that points Lucifer out as satan which I believe to be the truth, Isaiah14:12 says:

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Sorry but the bible makes it pretty clear that Lucifer is the destroyer of the whole world and that those who worship him will make their home with him where he lives. And the book of Isaiah pre-dates the catholic church by quite a strech

also this site gives alot more information than I have on the proof of the satanic side of freemasonry

www.cuttingedge.org...

I urge you and any truth seeking person to read up on this web-site concerning freemasonry there is overwhelming evidence that cannot be denied by any rational person. there are also letters of ex-masons shedding light as too the true nature and purpose of the freemasons.......peaceout

do me a favor guys and stay on subject.

either the molestation incident or geomancy.

don't hijack my thread to call masons satanists when all you can come up with is that they search for knowledge through lucifer, a comendable thing if you know what lucifer origianlly stood for, the bringer of knowledge. the only thing wrong i see with seeking out knowledge is that knowledge is useless and vain in and of itself (read ecclesiasties in the bible). knowledge is only useful through understanding, where through the process of understanding, knowledge becomes wisdom. unfortunately for the masons, understanding and wisdom don't happen through lucifer, it is given to man only from g-d himself. wisdom comes through the spirit. i don't want to accuse the masons of having no spirit, but i think they ignore there spirit, thinking that knowledge is the ultimate goal. all goals are vain. the joy is in the seeking, not the end result. there is no end result, you can always upon attaining a goal, strive for a higher goal. the process is vanity, but the moment, the here and now, the experience, these things are beautiful.

True the bible is the book that points Lucifer out as satan which I believe to be the truth, Isaiah14:12 says:

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Sorry but the bible makes it pretty clear that Lucifer is the destroyer of the whole world and that those who worship him will make their home with him where he lives. And the book of Isaiah pre-dates the catholic church by quite a strech

AAAAhhhh!!!!! Jeez, man you missed it entirely. it seems like most, not all but most, christians are so easily persuaded by the "historical" and "societal" translation put forth by their preachers. they bible is not something to be regurgitated by the masses and shoved down other people's throats. it is something to be interpreted by the INDIVIDUAL.

look at what your statement said. lucifer is the destroyer of the whole world... i agree. take into account what i said. lucifer was originally knowledge. these verses to me, are saying that knowledge is destroying the world. technology (nuclear bombs), television (desensitizing the populus and programming thought patterns of society), the internet (spreading dis-information), all these things are our destruction. why do you guys always want to ignore what these symbols meant BEFORE your church used them to their own ends?

and on another note, the "OCCULT" practices do not automatically mean devil worship or black magic. again these are two things that mean different things to different people. i study and practices the occult, but i do it in service of the one god. if i agknowledge that i have no power independant of that one god then i am not worshipping the devil just because i perform a rain spell. and "black magic" is also subjective. you can use creative forces for evil or destructive forces for good. it is all the intention of the practitioner that determines whether the magic is black or white, or grey for that matter.


[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

hex, I actually agree with pretty much most of that.

Concerning Lucifer, the word is Latin for "light bringer". It obviously was not in the original Hebrew in the book of Isaiah. It was added by St. Jerome, primarily as a joke (St. Jerome's major theological opponent was St. Lucifer of Cagliari, and adding "Lucifer" to the text was meant to take a jab at the Christian priest of the same name).

Furthermore, the individual that Isaiah is talking about here is not the devil, but Tigleth-pilaser, king of Babylon.

That being said, the occult connotations of "Lucifer" have nothing to do with St. Jerome or the Christian Bible. Instead, it was originally a term applied to the office of Apollo (the sun, which is the physical light bearer), and also sometimes to the planet Venus, which is the Morning Star. In occultism, "Lucifer" is not a person or a demon, but a symbol of enlightenment, knowledge, purity, etc., borrowing from the classical origins of the word. The Christians didn't begin naming their devil "Lucifer" until much later.

whoa, masonic_light, i can't believe we actually agree on some points.

now if we could only agree on the point that affecting people's free will through magic and brainwashing is wrong, maybe we could get somewhere. geomancy and television are great things aren't they.

I'm going to start praying for you guys i think. maybe, since i don't believe in fighting hate with love, this could be a constructive way for me to bring you guys to an awareness that secrets are horrible. does not everyone deserve enlightment, if that is in fact what your fraternity provides... why hide the secrets that could set us all free. oh yeah, your whole tradition is based on hiram, who withheld that enlightenment from people who didn't "deserve" the knowledge. that's funny though i always thought it was g-d and only g-d who could judge rightously what a person does and does not deserve.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
now if we could only agree on the point that affecting people's free will through magic and brainwashing is wrong, maybe we could get somewhere. geomancy and television are great things aren't they.

Yes it's wrong but geomancy is not a brainwashing technique!

Mancy comes from the greek word manteia meaning divination. Other examples of this use are NCartomancy (divination by cards) Plastromancy (divination by turtle shell), Uromancy (divination by urine) Bibliomancy (books), Aeromancy (weather), Pyromancy, (fire) and on and on.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
hex, I actually agree with pretty much most of that.

Concerning Lucifer, the word is Latin for "light bringer". It obviously was not in the original Hebrew in the book of Isaiah. It was added by St. Jerome, primarily as a joke (St. Jerome's major theological opponent was St. Lucifer of Cagliari, and adding "Lucifer" to the text was meant to take a jab at the Christian priest of the same name).

Furthermore, the individual that Isaiah is talking about here is not the devil, but Tigleth-pilaser, king of Babylon.

That being said, the occult connotations of "Lucifer" have nothing to do with St. Jerome or the Christian Bible. Instead, it was originally a term applied to the office of Apollo (the sun, which is the physical light bearer), and also sometimes to the planet Venus, which is the Morning Star. In occultism, "Lucifer" is not a person or a demon, but a symbol of enlightenment, knowledge, purity, etc., borrowing from the classical origins of the word. The Christians didn't begin naming their devil "Lucifer" until much later.

I wasnt going to post on this thread anymore but I couldnt resist on this one because, the book of Isaiah still pre-dates St. Jerome or St. Lucifer of Cagliari and is most definitely talking about satan in fact strongs concordance of the bible says that the hebrew word is "Heylel"(meaning in a sense of brightness);the morningstar. the concordance says the name applied to satan.

Also the fact that St. Jerome used it as a jab to St. Lucifer of Cagliari would suggest that the meaning of the word was negative and not positive.

Yes it's wrong but geomancy is not a brainwashing technique!

Mancy comes from the greek word manteia meaning divination. Other examples of this use are NCartomancy (divination by cards) Plastromancy (divination by turtle shell), Uromancy (divination by urine) Bibliomancy (books), Aeromancy (weather), Pyromancy, (fire) and on and on.

yes this is the definition put forth by historians. but the word that we use now may mean something intirely different than what it actually was at the inception of the science. i would propose a theory that geomancy is a secret that masons have been keeping knowledge of secret for a few millinea. geomancy is actually the science of harnessing energy from the earth, through geometry and placements of structures, and sending out this energy in the from of spiritual vibrations. so, in affect, geomancy can be brainwashing, if your goal is to influence people into being submissive. or if you influence them to stay spiritualy barren.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
whoa, masonic_light, i can't believe we actually agree on some points.

now if we could only agree on the point that affecting people's free will through magic and brainwashing is wrong, maybe we could get somewhere.

Concerning Magick, I do not believe that "real" Magick can be used to affect people's free will. My view here is both philosophical and practical, but I'll try to elaborate as best I can, as sometimes discussion of the subject causes confusion.

If we define Magick in its primitive meaning, we see that the word refers to the Science of the Magi. This Science concerns the spiritual uplifting of the individual Initiate, and does not affect the will of others, especially the non-initiates. There is a certain process in Magick where the unworthy are eliminated from advancement in a natural manner: in other words, Nature reveals her innermost secrets to only those whom She deems worthy.

This, in my opinion, is the symbolism behind initiation into all the Mystery Schools. The ritualistic act of initiation confers no special standing in and of itself, but symbolizes the trials, obstacles, and ordeals that those on the Path of Return must conquer in the advancement to Adeptship.

Every man and woman on the Path begins as a Profane, with the same greeds, lusts, envies, etc. However, those who do eventually reach the summits are purified. I too would be horrified at the Profane possessing all the mysteries of Nature and of the Universe, as they would obviously misuse them. But it seems to me that no one but a Buddha or Bodhisattva may have access to them.

geomancy and television are great things aren't they.

Personally, I don't have much use for either.

I'm going to start praying for you guys i think. maybe, since i don't believe in fighting hate with love, this could be a constructive way for me to bring you guys to an awareness that secrets are horrible. does not everyone deserve enlightment, if that is in fact what your fraternity provides... why hide the secrets that could set us all free.

I certainly appreciate the prayers. As for secrets, it depends on exactly what the secret is. If you were a nuclear physicist, hopefully you wouldn't give all your secrets to the North Koreans or Al-Queada. In like manner, I would hope that an Adept would not divulge his mysteries to those who would profane them.

In any case, Masonic secrets do not themselves provide any enlightenment, and are comparable to the secrets of other fraternal orders. Nevertheless, it is my belief that Masonry is symbolic of the enlightening process, and it can be used as a guide.

oh yeah, your whole tradition is based on hiram, who withheld that enlightenment from people who didn't "deserve" the knowledge. that's funny though i always thought it was g-d and only g-d who could judge rightously what a person does and does not deserve.

That's sort of true, but in another sense you may have missed an important point in the Hiramic Legend. The assassins were not yet prepared to receive that which they searched for. The Master patiently instructed them to keep working diligently, with faith, and eventually they would receive it. They ignored this advice, and attempted to take it by force. Their fate was not a happy one because they were unprepared, and worked iniquity.



[edit on 8-8-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by the_sentinal



I wasnt going to post on this thread anymore but I couldnt resist on this one because, the book of Isaiah still pre-dates St. Jerome or St. Lucifer of Cagliari and is most definitely talking about satan in fact strongs concordance of the bible says that the hebrew word is "Heylel"(meaning in a sense of brightness);the morningstar. the concordance says the name applied to satan.

I'm really not concerned with what Strong's Concordance says. The fact of the matter is that none of the Hebrew rabbis or scholars considered it a reference to Satan. That is a Christian misinterpretation which occured centuries later.

Also the fact that St. Jerome used it as a jab to St. Lucifer of Cagliari would suggest that the meaning of the word was negative and not positive.

Yes, it was meant as a negative (Jerome considered Lucifer a heretic). In the original reference by Isaiah, the king of Babylon was seen as being prideful and egoistic, which lead to his downfall.

That's sort of true, but in another sense you may have missed an important point in the Hiramic Legend. The assassins were not yet prepared to receive that which they searched for. The Master patiently instructed them to keep working diligently, with faith, and eventually they would receive it. They ignored this advice, and attempted to take it by force. Their fate was not a happy one because they were unprepared, and worked iniquity.

no you have again restated that untruth and perpetuated falsehood. you said the "assasins were not yet prepared". according to who? it says nowhere in the legend that they asked g-d for these secrets and he/she deemed them unworthy. it says they asked HIRAM for these secrets and he felt they would profane them. again, only g-d knows who is rightous and who isn't. for you to state that someone is either worthy or unworthy of knowledge is to assume that you KNOW the will of g-d!

In any case, Masonic secrets do not themselves provide any enlightenment, and are comparable to the secrets of other fraternal orders. Nevertheless, it is my belief that Masonry is symbolic of the enlightening process, and it can be used as a guide.

again, if this process can "guide" people to the ultimate truths, to enlightenment (connection and oneness with g-d), why not make it available to all. why make the doctrines of this guiding philosophy secret. do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well? if you hold in your hand a doctrine that can enrich the world and bring peace, why would you not share it with everyone? yes some people will misinterpret possibly profane the teachings, but if they are right and true, then those who need them will find them and understand at exactly the right time. instead, if freemasonry is indeed a path toward enlightenment, you hide that enlightment, you horde it for yourselves. how can you use the guise of protecting people when your "protecting" them from enlightenment, from freedom. this is twisted logic. when i have a truth that i feel could help someone along on their path i give it to them, unabridged and to the best of my ability. i do not hold on to it for my own, so that only i am the bearer of wisdom. we are all on this path together, not as only christians, or only as jews, or only as masons, but as a collective. the human race is all reaching toward this divinity, not just freemasons. g-d reveals himself to all peoples un-biasedly.




[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1


no you have again restated that untruth and perpetuated falsehood. you said the "assasins were not yet prepared". according to who? it says nowhere in the legend that they asked g-d for these secrets and he/she deemed them unworthy. it says they asked HIRAM for these secrets and he felt they would profane them. again, only g-d knows who is rightous and who isn't. for you to state that someone is either worthy or unworthy of knowledge is to assume that you KNOW the will of g-d!

Actually, that isn't what the legend says at all. The secret that the assassins searched for had nothing to do with anything spiritual. They sought the Master's Word, so that they could receive higher wages. However, they had not yet proven their skills in stonecraft, and only those who formally demonstrated their mastery of the craft could be advanced as a Master Mason, which would qualify him as an overseer of the work.

Hiram, as a Master Craftsman, was qualified to judge the work of each laborer. The assassins were originally good workers (until they became murderers), but had more training to undergo to become Master Masons.

again, if this process can "guide" people to the ultimate truths, to enlightenment (connection and oneness with g-d), why not make it available to all. why make the doctrines of this guiding philosophy secret.

It is available to all men, and it's not a secret.

do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well?

That's for God to decide, not me. I would say that in my opinion, many do, while many others do not.

if you hold in your hand a doctrine that can enrich the world and bring peace, why would you not share it with everyone? yes some people will misinterpret possibly profane the teachings, but if they are right and true, then those who need them will find them and understand at exactly the right time.

That is contrary to the teachings of Christ, who warned the Twelve to not cast pearls before swine. Those who are worthy will receive. It has nothing to do with being a Mason, or anything else. It's a Law of Nature.

instead, if freemasonry is indeed a path toward enlightenment, you hide that enlightment, you horde it for yourselves.

How so?

how can you use the guise of protecting people when your "protecting" them from enlightenment, from freedom. this is twisted logic.

Please give an example, as I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be condescending here, as I think that you (unlike a couple of others who've appeared here recently) are actually honest about your concerns with Masonry. But I also think that you've misunderstood it. Masonry has always worked as a force for good. It's teachings are not secret. Our memberships are not secret. Any man who is of good character and believes in God is eligible to join the fraternity. I really don't know how to be more open and egalitarian than that.

Please give an example, as I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be condescending here, as I think that you (unlike a couple of others who've appeared here recently) are actually honest about your concerns with Masonry. But I also think that you've misunderstood it. Masonry has always worked as a force for good. It's teachings are not secret. Our memberships are not secret. Any man who is of good character and believes in God is eligible to join the fraternity. I really don't know how to be more open and egalitarian than that.

I'm glad that you recognize that i have a genuine concern over the role of freemasonry in society. i am in fact, not here to spread hate of the masons, i simply want people to see sides that have not previously been presented. someone already called me paranoid and delusional because of the account that i gave of my experience with possible masonic conspiracy. i can tell you that i am not delusional, i do not believe everything i say to be the absolute resolution to the mysteries of your order. such is the nature of your order that an ABSOLUTE truth cannot be known even if you are a member of that order. and yes i admit to being paranoid of your order even. but hey, just because i'm paranoid doesnt mean that theres no reason for paranoia.

you say in the above quote that its teachings are not secret. if they are not, then why don't you take the rest of this thread as an opportunity to teach me. i like guidance, so guide me. sum up the teachings of the 1-33 degrees, that will sufficiently PROVE to me that you are not hidding teachings, and help me on the path to enlightenment.

if then you do teach me your doctrines and your teachings are not kept secret, what exactly is your oath declaring that it will not divulge to the uninitiated?

Why do i have to JOIN the order to have this guidance? Why not hold masonic meetings in the middle of parks? why not advertise them and invite all people to join in. are you now trying to say that there are NO SECRETS at all? why make an organization with levels to progress through? if you have to progress through levels to be taught, then aren't you therefore keeping secrets fom lower levels?

if i was in kindergarten and there was no possible way i could understand college level material, does that mean children should be banned from sitting in on college classes?

quote: do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well? (hexrain1)

That's for God to decide, not me. I would say that in my opinion, many do, while many others do not.

then why initiate anyone into freemasonry? if only g-d can decide that then why only give information to the initiated, since you stated that only g-d decides. maybe you initiate those who are not worthy by g-ds standards. if youre admitting fallibility of the initiation process, then why not do away with the whole system altogether and share the truth with everyone, not just fraternal orders?

It is available to all men, and it's not a secret.

Ahhh yes. to all MEN. therefore are you stating that only men and not women deserve enlightenment? i notice you do not accept women into the order...
[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Mate, you are hilarious.

Hmm... what's that old saying about pearls before swine...?

Originally posted by hexrain1
you say in the above quote that its teachings are not secret. if they are not, then why don't you take the rest of this thread as an opportunity to teach me. i like guidance, so guide me. sum up the teachings of the 1-33 degrees, that will sufficiently PROVE to me that you are not hidding teachings, and help me on the path to enlightenment.

Always glad to spread Masonic Light (sorry M.L.)

This site sums up the teachings of the 1-3 degrees

www.mastermason.com...

and this one sums up the teachings of the 4-33:

www.scottish-rite-mn.org...

Ask, and ye shall receive.

if then you do teach me your doctrines and your teachings are not kept secret, what exactly is your oath declaring that it will not divulge to the uninitiated?

The teachings of Masonry are not secret (as demonstrated in the two links above) The ceremonies are private (although exposures of various ceremonies have existed since the 1700's) They are kept private to give them a "mystique" Makes them more special to those who receive them. If they were open, they would become common-place and of little worth. Sort of like when your Mom MADE you and your best friend let your little sister play in your clubhouse. It just wasn't as much fun any more. Ya' know?

Why do i have to JOIN the order to have this guidance?

You don't. You can learn moral lessons and practice charity in other groups or all by yourself. Masons choose to practice it as a group, that's all. No big mystery.

Why not hold masonic meetings in the middle of parks? why not advertise them and invite all people to join in.

There are NUMEROUS public Masonic ceremonies. The laying of a cornerstone is one, Installation of Lodge officers is another. Both of which are impressive rituals and teach some interesting lessons. Even Masonic Funerals teach moral lessons if one listens carefully to the words being spoken.

are you now trying to say that there are NO SECRETS at all?

Joseph Fort Newton answers this question in the last paragraph of "The Builders," probably the most popular of all Masonic books:

"When he can look out over the rivers, the hills and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope and courage, which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble, as vile, as divine, as diabolic and as lonely as himself; and seeks to know, to forgive and to love his fellow man. When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea even in their sins - knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them and above all, how to keep friends with himself. When he loves flowers, can hunt birds without a gun and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child. When he can be happy and high-minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When starcrowned trees and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and see majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and sees something beyond mud, and into the face of the most forlorn fellow mortal and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself, with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song; glad to live, but not afraid to die! Such a man has found the only secret of Freemasonry, and the one which it is trying to give to all the world."

why make an organization with levels to progress through? if you have to progress through levels to be taught, then aren't you therefore keeping secrets fom lower levels?

A Master Mason (3rd, yes 3rd Degree) is the "highest" Degree Mason there is, but there is more to be learned in the various Rites and side degrees of Masonry. (York Rite, Scottish Rite, etc.) These "lower level" members you refer to are given every opportunity to progress through the degrees of Masonry. Some chose not to, it's as simple as that.

if i was in kindergarten and there was no possible way i could understand college level material, does that mean children should be banned from sitting in on college classes?

In my classes, yes. A Kindergarten student would be disruptive to those trying earnestly to learn (not to mention bored to tears) in a College level class and has no reason to be there.

quote: do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well?

If they desire to be, yes. Remember not ALL the uninitiated desire to be enlightened. However if the uninitiated desires to be enlightened as to Masonry, it's a matter of petitioning a Lodge. If he is of high moral character, a believer in the Almighty and comes earnestly seeking light, he will be admitted. (And he'll find that we're a pretty nice group of guys) Heck, he might even play golf with some of us like some of the new guys in my Lodge are going to do with me this weekend.

then why initiate anyone into freemasonry?

That's how we gain new members and perpetuate the organization.

maybe you initiate those who are not worthy by g-ds standards.

This isn't a religion, it's a fraternity. If we only initiated those who were worthy by God's standards, NONE of us would be Masons.

if youre admitting fallibility of the initiation process, then why not do away with the whole system altogether and share the truth with everyone, not just fraternal orders?

Wouldn't be much of a fraternity then, would it?

Ahhh yes. to all MEN. therefore are you stating that only men and not women deserve enlightenment? i notice you do not accept women into the order...

Not true. There are female Masonic Orders as well. Not to mention the Order of the Eastern Star, the Ladies Shrine, etc. There are PLENTY of women active in Masonic Orders.

Always glad to spread Masonic Light (sorry M.L.)

This site sums up the teachings of the 1-3 degrees

www.mastermason.com...

and this one sums up the teachings of the 4-33:

www.scottish-rite-mn.org...

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Amazing, i've never seen a site that gave me LESS information. first of all, this is not enlightenment, this is symbology. it sounds like christianity, you GIVE me an interpretation that doesn't instill any feeling of divine truth, and tell me that's all there is to masonry? if i could read EVERYTHING that your order teaches in less than a day, then why do people spend their life struggling to attain these degrees, how can you really be giving me ALL your doctrines. simple, you didn't. you again gave me a half baked answer, with no real substance. this is not enlightenment, not even a guide, it is gibberish. it is interpretations of symbols and an introductory that tells me nothing of its real substance.

The teachings of Masonry are not secret (as demonstrated in the two links above) The ceremonies are private (although exposures of various ceremonies have existed since the 1700's) They are kept private to give them a "mystique" Makes them more special to those who receive them. If they were open, they would become common-place and of little worth. Sort of like when your Mom MADE you and your best friend let your little sister play in your clubhouse. It just wasn't as much fun any more. Ya' know?

this path that we are on is not about fun... it is about spiritual growth. and this spiritual growth benifits everyone. so should you not let everyone into that clubhouse? oh no, you just send your little sister to the order of the eastern star. i thought you guys taught unity (brotherhood not sisterhood), but i guess segregation is ok if there are equal facilities...

More contradictions than the king james version of the bible...

YOU GUYS ARE TWISTED.


[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 8-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
Amazing, i've never seen a site that gave me LESS information. first of all, this is not enlightenment, this is symbology.

Masonry is all about symbolism or hadn't you heard?

it sounds like christianity, you GIVE me an interpretation that doesn't instill any feeling of divine truth, and tell me that's all there is to masonry? if i could read EVERYTHING that your order teaches in less than a day, then why do people spend their life struggling to attain these degrees, how can you really be giving me ALL your doctrines. simple, you didn't. you again gave me a half baked answer, with no real substance. this is not enlightenment, not even a guide, it is gibberish. it is interpretations of symbols and an introductory that tells me nothing of its real substance.

You said "sum it up" not teach you everything there is to know. Do you know what a summary is?

Got a few YEARS? If so I'll be glad to teach you much about Freemasonry, but you seem to want it handed to you on a silver platter. "give give give" On what compulsion should we "give" you anything? Why shouldn't you have to work for it like others have?

Better yet, got a credit card? Go to the Supreme Council web-site and buy all the books on this, the Ritual & Ceremonial page. ANYONE can purchase them. ALL the teachings of the Scottish Rite are found here. ALL OF THEM (but they won't "give" them to you so whip out that plastic, sonny)

www.srmason-sj.org...

and this one. I particularly recommend "A Bridge to Light" which deals with each individual degree, what it teaches, etc. (You won't read it in less than a day and understand it, I assure you)

www.srmason-sj.org...

this path that we are on is not about fun... it is about spiritual growth. and this spiritual growth benifits everyone. so should you not let everyone into that clubhouse?

Nope. And we won't. Only those who deserve to be there.

oh no, you just send your little sister to the order of the eastern star. i thought you guys taught unity (brotherhood not sisterhood), but i guess segregation is ok if there are equal facilities...
More contradictions than the king james version of the bible...
YOU GUYS ARE TWISTED.


And you sir are underserving of further notice. How DARE you think you can DEMAND what we have? On what compulsion are Freemasons required to hand it to you? Those of us who are active have worked hard for it.

Today's society wants, wants, wants, but sadly most are unwilling to work for anything. If it's free, it's likely not worth too much.



[edit on 8-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by hexrain1


you say in the above quote that its teachings are not secret. if they are not, then why don't you take the rest of this thread as an opportunity to teach me. i like guidance, so guide me. sum up the teachings of the 1-33 degrees, that will sufficiently PROVE to me that you are not hidding teachings, and help me on the path to enlightenment.

Freemasonry's teachings, in the exoteric sense, are in general identical to those of the 18th century Enlightenment. The Masonic fraternity was a product of the Enlightenment, and thus continues that tradition.

For example, when a man is initiated into Masonry, he is prepared in a peculiar manner for the ceremony. This preparation symbolizes mankind emerging from the dark ages and entering the Age of Enlightenment. In the dark ages, man was blinded by superstition and ignorance of science; he was bound by the cable-tow of tyranny, derived from a unified Church-State despotism. However, the man nevertheless seeks instinctively for light. He enters the Lodge Room and confesses his desire to learn. He then publicly professes his belief in Providence, invoking divine assistance in his search. His qualifications are recited, that he is an upright man who strives to live in a moral manner. He is then obligated to certain duties, and is symbolically "brought to light".

After this, the symbolism of his degree are explained. To show the link with the Enlightenment again, consider the Level, which is a tool used by operative stonemasons to ensure levelity of brick and stone while building a wall. In Freemasonry, the Level therefore becomes the symbol of the equality of all men before the law and before the Creator.

It would be impossible to give a complete study of each of the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite of Masonry on this thread. However, I can provide a few examples, and direct you to books which do so.

Take, for example, the 7° which is called "Provost and Judge". This degree centers around a squabble that some of the Jewish Masons had at the building of the Temple. Some of the Jews did not like the fact that they were required to work alongside uncircumcised Pheonicians (those sent by the King of Tyre to assist in the work). In the ceremony of the degree, one of the Jewish Masons meets with Adoniram, an overseer and judge (portrayed in the degree by the Lodge Master). The Jewish Mason attempts to misuse his fraternity membership to influence Adoniram to rule in their favor. Adoniram responds, "As a Fellow of the Craft I have called thee Brother; as a judge I know thee not". The basic meaning of this degree is simple but important, and I'm sure you see the meaning of it without me telling you.

Other degrees in the Rite, especially beginning with the 14° and above, concern different philosophical speculations regarding metaphysics, political science, etc. The metaphysics is mostly concentrated around the Kabbalah. The political science is classical liberalism.

There are a few very good books that go into great detail about all of these degrees. I would recommend "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike, "Clausen's Commentaries On Morals and Dogma" by Henry C. Clausen, and "A Bridge To Light" by Dr. Rex Hutchens. Currently, Bro. Hutchens' book is given as a gift to all new members of the Scottish Rite, and I recommend it as an introduction to the Scottish Rite system, as well as an introduction to Pike's great work.

if then you do teach me your doctrines and your teachings are not kept secret, what exactly is your oath declaring that it will not divulge to the uninitiated?

Masons do not take oaths that forbid revealing Masonic teachings to non-Initiates. Rather, we promise not to divulge the "secrets of Masonry". The secrets are not the teachings, and I'll try to explain.

Those in past centuries who accepted the doctrines of the Enlightenment, and especially those who promulgated them, were persecuted by the Church-State apparatus (consider Galileo, for example). When it was seen that the Masonic Lodges were actively becoming philosophical societies devoted to the advancement of the Enlightenment, the Craft began to feel the wrath of the status quo.

The fraternity had always had traditional secrets whereby members could recognize each other (signs, passwords, handshakes, etc.). This was the case in all the medieval guilds, including the carpenters, blacksmiths, and so on. The modern fraternity simply continued on in this tradition, and required all new members to take solemn oaths concerning them.

Today we preserve these out of tradition. We know that no longer the Inquisitor is going to come knocking at our door. Nevertheless, our original Masonic fathers were not as blessed in this way as we ourselves are, and in many cases their very survival, and that of their families, depended upon secrecy in their Masonic careers.

But in any case, the only secrets a Mason is required to keep are the traditional modes of recognition. Never has any Masonic teaching been deemed a secret.

Why do i have to JOIN the order to have this guidance?

You do not. Libraries are full of books on philosophy and science that render teachings identical to those of Masonry. Masonry in this sense functions as sort of a club where men of like minds can fellowship and explore these questions together. However, no one ever said that being a Mason is a requirement for any sort of enlightenment or knowledge. We welcome all men of good character who desire to unite with us in our fraternity. For those seeking, but do not want to join our fraternity, we wish them well on their journey.

Why not hold masonic meetings in the middle of parks? why not advertise them and invite all people to join in. are you now trying to say that there are NO SECRETS at all?

The secrets are the modes of recognition (handshakes, passwords, etc.). They used to be important, but are now only traditional. Two hundred years ago, knowledge of them was required to gain admission into a Lodge meeting. Today, one only needs his membership card and a photo I.D.

why make an organization with levels to progress through? if you have to progress through levels to be taught, then aren't you therefore keeping secrets fom lower levels?

No. Masonic initiation is divided into three degrees for convenience. These were the traditional degrees taken from the medieval stonecraft guild. First a man becomes an Entered Apprentice. After this, he is assigned a coach who teaches him the symbolism and ceremony of his degree. After passing an examination in his degree, he may be advanced to the Second Degree, and likewise to the Third Degree, which is Master Mason. In my jurisdiction, it takes about two months to go from being a non-Mason to a Master Mason, as there is a waiting period of 4 weeks between degrees.

Once a man is a Master Mason, he may join either the Scottish Rite, the York Rite, or both. The Scottish Rite confers the 4° - 32°, with an honorary 33°. This degrees are all conferred at once during Reunions, usually twice per year. What happens is this:

As a Master Mason, you apply to join the Scottish Rite, and are accepted. You show up on a Friday evening and are placed in your "class" (the group of candidates). We then begin conferring the degrees, one after the other.

In my Scottish Rite Temple, we begin with the 4° on Friday, and work up to the 8°. Then everybody comes back in on Saturday morning, and we go all the way up to the 18°. We take a week break, then come back the following Friday, beginning at the 19°, and going up to the 29°. We then come back on Saturday morning and confer the 30°, 31°, and 32°. The new 32° Scottish Rite Masons are then presented with books on the degrees to study.

Each degree in the Scottish Rite has its "secrets", which are the modes of recognition for that degree. Those of us who have worked those degrees for many years still can't remember all of them.

if i was in kindergarten and there was no possible way i could understand college level material, does that mean children should be banned from sitting in on college classes?

Not at all. But realistically, why would we want people who don't like us to begin with to sit in our meetings?

then why initiate anyone into freemasonry? if only g-d can decide that then why only give information to the initiated, since you stated that only g-d decides. maybe you initiate those who are not worthy by g-ds standards. if youre admitting fallibility of the initiation process, then why not do away with the whole system altogether and share the truth with everyone, not just fraternal orders?

Any institution that admits humans is fallible. However, we don't want to eliminate the fraternal system. The reason we joined in the first place is because we like the fraternal system. We like the gentleman's club atmosphere. We enjoy gathering and talking and fellowshipping, and it gives us opportunity to organize in assisting the less fortunate. One need not join a fraternity to discovery any truth, but the fraternity remains here for those who do wish to join.

Ahhh yes. to all MEN. therefore are you stating that only men and not women deserve enlightenment? i notice you do not accept women into the order...

By "men", I was referring to mankind, including the fairer sex. Freemasonry, as a fraternity, does not admit women. Sororities do not admit men, but I'm not offended by that.

And of course many women deserve enlightenment. I am a member of an occult society called Builders of the Adytum which was led for many years by a female Adept, Rev. Ann Davies.

I have always wondered if any masons were involved with this huge scandel and cover up ?? does anyone know of any involved.


the franklin credit union Scandal

Many people believe that the Arizona Wilder video was real, why would she lie???

I would here refer you to the lies told by the totally debunked Michelle Pizner (?)

what motive would she have??

money, book deals, fame, attention.

also if you've seen david Ickes wife you would agree that to (shag Mr. Green) would be a serious step down

Do the names Charles, Diana, and Camel a ring any bells?

you GIVE me an interpretation that doesn't instill any feeling of divine truth, and tell me that's all there is to masonry?

perhaps it is your point of view or more precisely your angle of observation that is
impeding your sight? (HUTA)

We know that no longer the Inquisitor is going to come knocking at our door.

At least we hope this is true. However there are many in the fundie world that
would gleefully reinstitute Witch burnings and the use of the Malleus as a guide book.