And they call Ahmadinejad a religious wack-job...

Can some one tell me why Iranian President Ahmadinejad's religious fervor is any different to this:

Europe and US polls apart on conflict

Last month, the Reverend John Hagee, a Pentecostal television evangelist from Texas, convened a meeting in Washington of 3500 members of Christians Unified for Israel. The organisation is dedicated to building support for Israel, even in states where there are few Jewish voters.

Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican presidential hopeful, attended the rally, as did senator Rick Santorum, of Pennsylvania, Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, and Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador.

Mr Hagee called the Israeli attacks on Lebanon a "miracle of God" and suggested that a ceasefire would violate "God's foreign policy statement" towards Jews. The evangelist is a leading figure in the so-called Christian-Zionist movement, rooted in a literal interpretation of the Book of Revelations, which predicts a final battle between good and evil in Israel, where two billion people will die before Christ's return ushers in a 1000-year period of grace.

"The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching ... Rejoice and be exceeding glad - the best is yet to be," Mr Hagee has written in a book that has sold 700,000 copies.

President George W. Bush sent a message to the gathering praising Mr Hagee and his supporters for "spreading the hope of God's love and the universal gift of freedom".

Does anyone think it disquieting that the President of the United States praises an apocalyptic madman who says, and I quote, "The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching ... Rejoice and be exceeding glad - the best is yet to be,". Should the US President, and US congressmen, associate themselves with a group who is crossing their fingers that 2 billion people die very soon?

Do any Americans reading this feel comfortable that their President, a man in control of America's vast nuclear arsenal, heaps praise on a religious zealot openly praying for the death of a third of the World?

Do we even have a chance?

[edit on 4/8/06 by subz]

See Subz its not religious fervor and wackjobiness because they are Christians and Gods Chosen people... the Lebanese are just heathens who cares about them anyways... this is their mentality....i know this from personal experience because unfortunately i used to be a die hard baptist and bush-ite... ive been to the church sermons and heard pastors telling their congregations to vote for bush and support him because he was on Gods side.... so while those of us discerning individuals can see that the same religious intolerance and big wiggery is the same regardless of who is spewing the hate message. We all know of the wars and deaths caused by the Christians, Jews, and Muslims... these three religions have been killing eachother for time immemorium.... Hope that answers your question.... there is no difference its all the same.... and beside Bush said God wanted him to be president so yeah....



[edit on 4-8-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

I knew Georgy was religious, even on the verge of zealotousness,
but to be supporting a nut job like this, this disturbs me extremely.

I shudder to think any elected official supports idiocentric zealots like Hagee.

it is quite well known he is a religious fundamentalist. plenty of countries are run by these sort of people. with regard to the iranian pres, of course he is a zealot, but as your piece shows bush and many other western leaders are to.

I live in Australia and am soooo disturbed to hear that your president endorses this kind of nonsence. We don't hear much about American policitics or policies so I have been educating myself on them through the net and I am appalled by what I'm reading. We too in Australia have men and women fighting in overseas conflicts mainly because of our alliance with George Bush but many over hear are against it and hopefully if we get rid of the current party in power they will be removed. The only troble I have is that we have gone in there and upset the applecart so to speak and we really can't just leave them with the mess and walk away. This so called exit strategy that everyone politian keeps talking about just dosen't exit because the war machine is really making too much money from Iraq to let the golden goose die now.
Seems to me that you in America have the same kind of extremist religious problems that most middle eastern countries have, you just haven't acted on them, YET.
Cheers
crash

Thanks for your insight Elsenorpompom Could this be why Prime Minister Tony Blair is trying to reshape the War on Terror to be a War of Values? Blair is another notorious Bible basher and even openly speculates about joing the clergy after his term in office.

Crashtestwoman, welcome to ATS It's good to see another Aussie amongst the ranks.

He does sound like a whackjob.
BUT!

Some important details are missing from the article.

George didn't actually say these apocalyptic things, Mr Hagee did.
Mr. Hagee is not the leader of the United States.
Ahmadinejad , the LEADER of Iran DID say things regarding the death of Israel.


Was George's message sent before, or after this particular whackjob said what he said?
This is a very important detail, and could determine the difference between GWB supporting the crowd in general, or GWB supporting the statements made by Hagee.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Some important details are missing from the article.

George didn't actually say these apocalyptic things, Mr Hagee did.

I never said Bush said that, I said he praised the man that did.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Mr. Hagee is not the leader of the United States.

No, but his views are similar to President Bush's.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Ahmadinejad , the LEADER of Iran DID say things regarding the death of Israel.

President Ahmadinejad was very specific in his words. In an interview with Der Speigel he clearly stated that he does not want bloodshed of any one - including muslims, jews and christians.

Ahmadinejad advocates regime change i.e. the removal of the Zionist regime that is Israel's leadership. There is a difference.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Was George's message sent before, or after this particular whackjob said what he said?
This is a very important detail, and could determine the difference between GWB supporting the crowd in general, or GWB supporting the statements made by Hagee.

The article says that the quote was from Hagee's book that has sold 700,000 copies. I would surmise that since President Bush praised Hagee and the people at the congregation that the praise came after the book was published and sold 700,000 copies.

Subz,

Miscommunication, I think..
I was talking about the article..Not you personally.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Subz,

Miscommunication, I think..
I was talking about the article..Not you personally.

No problemo, I didnt take it personally.

The facts that are contained in the article are that the US President praised a man who had previously state, in a best selling book, that the end times are upon us and that 2 billion people are going to die.

The worst is, and in the US alot of people (especialy the people that align themselves with groups like pointed out in the article) don't seem to know this:

1: Israel is NOT at war or fighting Lebanon (officialy, their actions on the other hand imply something else)
2: Lebanon is NOT at war or fighting Israel (officialy, unofficialy, not in any way)
3: Lebanees civilians are dying by the heaps, no matter what color or religion, for every 1 Hisbollah soldier Israel kills, they also kill 30 civilians? By the time they kill all 2000 Hisbollah soldiers, we're looking at 40k to 60k civilians that "unfortunatly" died.
4: 40% of Lebanon is CHRISTIAN

I'm really starting to dislike all kinds of religious people here, I just can't believe how hatefull and in support of mass murder all of them are.

I don't know how to say this without getting some smart remarks, but.

Do you think GWB actually read his book?

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Do you think GWB actually read his book?

Good point. Best laugh of the day

And with that I leave the boards for today. My head hurts, I should've gone to bed 5 hours ago.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I don't know how to say this without getting some smart remarks, but.

Do you think GWB actually read his book?

Im sure Bush and the people who advise him were aware of what Hagee is all about. Do you think the President of the US just praises anyone?

Also just look at what Hagee said at the meeting.

Mr Hagee called the Israeli attacks on Lebanon a "miracle of God" and suggested that a ceasefire would violate "God's foreign policy statement" towards Jews.

How can Bush support diplomatic efforts for a ceasefire through his Secretary of State whilst praising a man who clearly says attacking Lebanon is a "miracle" and that a ceasefire would violate "God's foreign policy statement".

But lets not forget the senators that were actually present to hear this fundamentalist bullhooey. Politicians should avoid people such as Hagee like tha plague, not praise and go to see them.

Does supporting a man like Hagee not diminish the global war on Islamic extremism? Does it not start to look more like a struggle between Bush's Christian extremism versus Islamic extremism? We were lead down the garden path in the ouster of the Taliban because they were not secular. I dont think Bush has a secular bone in his body.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Do you think GWB actually read his book?

Well whether he did or not, his support of this religious nutter will mean a lot to his followers and bring him more support.

If he didn't, and no-one told him about what was in the book, then they're culpably dumb, and if he did, then he's culpably dumb.

There's no way round it.

As Frank Zappa so memorably put it... "Man is dumb all over... so, if God made man in his own image, then He must be dumb all over - and maybe even a little ugly on the side."

President George W. Bush sent a message to the gathering praising Mr Hagee and his supporters for "spreading the hope of God's love and the universal gift of freedom".

That sounds like a form letter to me -- probably sent to any church to politely decline an invitation to speak to the congregation. I doubt Bush even had anything to do with it, yet someone latched onto it to try to compare Bush with Ahmadinejad?

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I don't know how to say this without getting some smart remarks, but.

Do you think GWB actually read his book?

If the pictures were in color and it had some Goats in it, I'd say the chances were pretty high. Pop-up pages would be a plus.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
That sounds like a form letter to me -- probably sent to any church to politely decline an invitation to speak to the congregation. I doubt Bush even had anything to do with it, yet someone latched onto it to try to compare Bush with Ahmadinejad?

Sure, that is right, President Bush would have absolutely nothing to do with a man such as Hagee. He would fob him off, politely, with a form letter which would then be misconstrued to paint President Bush as a religious zealot?

How do you explain the following politicians attending Hagee's little fundie-fest 3000?

Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican presidential hopeful, attended the rally, as did senator Rick Santorum, of Pennsylvania, Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, and Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador.

Two current US Senators, the Republican Committee Chairman and the Israeli Ambassador were there to see Hagee preach his apocalyptic death chant for the deaths of 2 billion people.

Were they just being polite in their support for such a man? Sure DJ, it's all a big lie to paint President Bush - who claims to speak with God personally - as a religious fundie the same way Ahmadinejad is portrayed by the Iran-haters.

Originally posted by crashtestwoman
I live in Australia and am soooo disturbed to hear that your president endorses this kind of nonsence. We don't hear much about American policitics or policies so I have been educating myself on them through the net and I am appalled by what I'm reading.

I miss home so much. I miss reporters who actually report the news. Just the news, U know ? American news, politics and way of life will drive U batty, I'd advise U to just stop now lol Honestly, I wish I'd never bothered to know ... which I plan to do once hubby retires the military and I bring him to Australia for a life of normalcy

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I don't know how to say this without getting some smart remarks, but.

Do you think GWB actually read his book?

If the pictures w

ere in color and it had some Goats in it, I'd say the chances were pretty high. Pop-up pages would be a plus.

ROFL I was about to say ... Hey maybe he had God send the message for him cause he like talks to him and all


[edit on 4-8-2006 by ImJaded]